Crystalyte Sensorless 2440 ? 2011 48/40 Problem - Need Help!

[ebikehyperfan]

I´ve been trying to get a hint of my problem in every post that seemed to mention my components but I guess there is not a similar case presente here yet.
The story is a couple of months ago I bought this Crystalyte which was supposed to be 5304 as sold by Kenny, but it seems (per my own deductions) that it is actually a HS 2440 (there is a sticker indicating FHS24/40 in the motor). I am using a 48 V/12Ah battery bought from HK (http://www.vpower.hk), and a Crystalyte controller 36-48V/40Amp and APM. I took some courage and put the kit and battery together, as I could not find a reliable service to do this for me. I even soldered a couple of Anderson out of the battery controller (beige) box. To my surprise, the whole thing worked great right away from the start and could test about 59mph (unloaded) and 30 mph (loaded). For whatever the reason after the first stop I decided to play with the toy disconnecting and connecting again, as well as with the APM display setup options:
a) Set a cut-off voltage to 42Votls. Not sure but believe the low voltage was set to 0000 when I decided to set this up.
b) Set the battery normal voltage to 48V (not sure about the previous reading)
c) Set the current to 26Amp (was at 40 amp before)
d) At some point I went over the "assist" option as opposed to the "speed" option as initially set up in the APM, and (definitely my mistake) I tried running the motor in a situation where I actually never had any pedal assist device connected.
After these set up the motor did not work at all. Therefore I went back to the "speed" option which seemed the obvious change to make (reverting action d) above). While the motor started to move again, the maximum speed I could get was only 7mph. Even worse, after a couple of hundred yards, the slow speed turned into a sort of series of short "tosses" (series short back and forth) without actually moving the bike, to finally stop working. It is obvious that I messed up something and decided to research for the solution:
a) Tested the battery which measured the 56V it had right out of the box almost as fully charged when I measured 56.4V.
b) Tested the controller: this one is tougher because I do not have the circuit but at least all resistors show the right reading and MOS FET do not show unusual readings (either a short cuts or no resistance reading at all).
c) Disarmed the motor, to find that it was a sensorless motor so no electronics there. The measure of the three phases seems ok as the three have the same reading of resistance. I do not have the reference resistance values to measure in the phases, but no apparent shortcut was there, neither a cut in the windings.
d) Tested the motor with another battery controller I have (A 36V from 8FUN 500W) to find that the motor again moved with the short back and forth fashion that I had experienced in the short lived second phase of the problem (please see above).

I also tried to find if there was a way to reset the controller to factory specifications, but could not find a way to do so in the manuals I got from Crystalyte.
My very limited knowledge came to an end, so I decided to ask for your help guys if you can figure what the issue might be here. You guys are probably my last option to get for a solution as there is no Crystalyte technician where I live, neither I can get a response from Crystalyte. Any ideas are more than welcome! Thank you all in advance.



(moderator edit: merged duplicate threads; please only start one thread on a subject)

 

[ebikehyperfan]

I´ve been trying to get a hint of my problem in every post that seemed to mention my components but I guess there is not a similar case presente here yet.
The story is a couple of months ago I bought this Crystalyte which was supposed to be 5304 as sold by Kenny, but it seems (per my own deductions) that it is actually a HS 2440 (there is a sticker indicating FHS24/40 in the motor). I am using a 48 V/12Ah battery bought from HK (http://www.vpower.hk), and a Crystalyte controller 36-48V/40Amp and APM. I took some courage and put the kit and battery together, as I could not find a reliable service to do this for me. I even soldered a couple of Anderson out of the battery controller (beige) box. To my surprise, the whole thing worked great right away from the start and could test about 59mph (unloaded) and 30 mph (loaded). For whatever the reason after the first stop I decided to play with the toy disconnecting and connecting again, as well as with the APM display setup options:
a) Set a cut-off voltage to 42Votls. Not sure but believe the low voltage was set to 0000 when I decided to set this up.
b) Set the battery normal voltage to 48V (not sure about the previous reading)
c) Set the current to 26Amp (was at 40 amp before)
d) At some point I went over the "assist" option as opposed to the "speed" option as initially set up in the APM, and (definitely my mistake) I tried running the motor in a situation where I actually never had any pedal assist device connected.
After these set up the motor did not work at all. Therefore I went back to the "speed" option which seemed the obvious change to make (reverting action d) above). While the motor started to move again, the maximum speed I could get was only 7mph. Even worse, after a couple of hundred yards, the slow speed turned into a sort of series of short "tosses" (series short back and forth) without actually moving the bike, to finally stop working. It is obvious that I messed up something and decided to research for the solution:
a) Tested the battery which measured the 56V it had right out of the box almost as fully charged when I measured 56.4V.
b) Tested the controller: this one is tougher because I do not have the circuit but at least all resistors show the right reading and MOS FET do not show unusual readings (either a short cuts or no resistance reading at all).
c) Disarmed the motor, to find that it was a sensorless motor so no electronics there. The measure of the three phases seems ok as the three have the same reading of resistance. I do not have the reference resistance values to measure in the phases, but no apparent shortcut was there, neither a cut in the windings.
d) Tested the motor with another battery controller I have (A 36V from 8FUN 500W) to find that the motor again moved with the short back and forth fashion that I had experienced in the short lived second phase of the problem (please see above).

I also tried to find if there was a way to reset the controller to factory specifications, but could not find a way to do so in the manuals I got from Crystalyte.
My very limited knowledge came to an end, so I decided to ask for your help guys if you can figure what the issue might be here. You guys are probably my last option to get for a solution as there is no Crystalyte technician where I live, neither I can get a response from Crystalyte. Any ideas are more than welcome! Thank you all in advance.



(moderator edit: merged duplicate threads; please only start one thread on a subject)

 

[amberwolf]

Most often when a motor gets stuck alternating between two positions (shuddering), which sounds like what you are describing, only two of the phases are getting power. This could be from a broken or poor connection to the controller on one of the phase connectors or somewhere along the wires, or from a failure inside the controller itself, like a blown FET. It could also be a short from one phase to the motor casing or axle.

If you look around on the forums, you'll find quite a few of the HS/HT motors have a serious problem where the wires exit the motor and seat along the axle, getting cut by the ring over them. You'll probably want to look around for those threads, some of which detail how to fix that if it has happened.

If it were a sensored controller, I'd suspect the wrong hall/phase order, but for sensorless, the above is the only thing I can think of. Either that, or the current limit the controller has set is too low, and it is cutting out just trying to startup.

If reprogramming the controller to it's original factory settings (assuming you know what those were) does not fix the problem, then it's unlikely to be a setting, and more likely to be hardware.

 

[ebikehyperfan]

Thank you very much Amberwolf. I will look with more detail at the options you mention within the next couple of days.