Cute Q100 / Q100C Programmable Controller

[zukster]

I have tried several times to get Lyen's 6 FET 3077 Mark II Mini Monster Sensorless and Hall versions to work with my Cute Q100 and Q100C with no success.

Is there anyone out there who has tried a programmable controller that works with the Q100? All I wanted to do was set LVC and limit the Current. I know it can be done using a Cycle Analyst or by using a resistor modification, but I would prefer something simple that I can program into the controller.

Lyen tried to have the low level firmware fixed and I bought the new one to try but it is doing the same thing: It might be a bit better than before when the bike is moving 5km per hour or more, but at less than 5km per hour it still stutters under load. It works a bit better when applying the throttle slowly, but when there is a hill, it will not get going at all.

I'm waiting for Lyen's response to see if there is a solution. He tested it and it looked like it was working, so he might have accidentally sent me an older controller. But this process is taking a long time and I just want to get something that work.

 

[d8veh]

You need a high-speed controller for the Q100. I'm not too familiar with Lyen's controllers, but I have it at the back of my head that the newest ones are high-speed, but not the older ones.

 

[zukster]

I think the "high speed" controller must be needed for some of these newer geared hub motors. Cute and Ezee.

I found a link to a fellow that did some modding to the basic KU63 that BMSbattery.com sells. It will likely suit my needs:

http://www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/electronics/ku63-motor-controller.html

Still - Programmable would be better. It seems like all the rage is now for the newer sine wave controllers so who know whats going to be available a year from now. Grin is still working on one with these guys based on the BAC500 I think...

http://www.accelerated-systems.com/node/9

...but its not ready yet. It was supposed to be but I believe there were some design issues to straighten out. I don't know how much it will either. I've seen the BAC-500 listed for $250 at online stores. Maybe they're working on a more consumer friendly design and price.

 

[motomech]

Well, since you have mentioned that you use multible packs, I'm not sure what LVC you are looking for...
But, Ecrazyman has a 48V, 15A, 6-FET with a very useable 41.5V LVC.
Also, probably your fastest and least expensive option too.
EDIT: Just looked again, doesn't say if it will run sensorless.
Why don"t you contact him and see if he can put one together for you?

 

[zukster]

But, Ecrazyman has a 48V, 15A, 6-FET with a very useable 41.5V LVC.

You just reminded me that I have older Ecrazyman controllers like that that are programmable with the older Parameter designer software. I think I'll see if it works with the Cute 100. I have a hall version and one of his first sensorless controllers (that worked pretty good with a tiny push). I think Lyen might source boards from Ecrazyman though so I'm not sure if it will be compatible with the Cute 100. Maybe it will say in the Ebay listing what motors the newer Ecrazyman is compatible with.

Also, I plan to settle on a 14 or 15S Lipo pack with Turnigys or Zippys, so modifying a KU63 is still a good option for me. The Cute 100 seems fine for my light bike and my weight 150lbs, so 15S burnt out the stock KU63 controller, but the motor was not even warm.

It was the main capacitor that went as it was only 50V and I was putting around 62V through the controller. I'm surprised it held out for so long. I ran it at 14S for a year with no problems at all. The newer KU63 is a bit different to the one above the guy modified.

The new KU63 2013/2014 is a tiny bit smaller than the previous (impressively small for its output).
The MosFETs have been upgraded to HY1607 which specs say are 68V/70A.
The main elcos and all capcitors are 50V and the main power cap is 50V 470uF.

So to be able to run at 63V and lower, I'm going to replace the power cap with a 63V 470uF (some would say to go for a 100V 470uF but I have used 63V before with no issues at 15S. Fresh off the charger the packs are never more than 62V.

Then to set LVC to a conservative pack total of 15S * 3.5 volts = 52.5 to account for unbalanced packs, I calculate having to change the R50 resistor from 11.1 k Ohm to 22.1 k Ohm according to the article above. It was a bit tricky to figure out because R50 on the KU63 is in fact a pair of resistors in parallel that are right beside each other. Maybe they initially built the board with one and then add the second to tune it. I had to take them off the broken board to test their voltage.

Lastly, the R1 cap can be changed to tune the voltage going to the Linear Regulator. It was actually working okay with the stock 180 ohm resistor at 15S, so they may have tweaked the new controller so this is not necessary. I might simply try a a few different higher values and see how it effects the bikes operation at 63V down to LVC(52.5).

I'll toss this into a KU63 mod tread if I am successful. The KU63 is a beautiful little controller to work with, its reliable, and its only 15 dollars.

 

[motomech]

Just a note to others following this thread, I have managed to avoid any problems with the KU63(Older model) by keeping the Volts under 50V.
To get a turn of speed, I run dual 328's/stock KU63's on 12S=27 mph. 14S=30 mph.
I tested a Lyen Mini Monster sensorless on a 328, it worked, but not well. Lots of studdering. With the Halls connected, it worked fine, but at 22 Amps, was a little hot for that motor.
The Lyen(sensorless) is currently mated to a 255 rpm @ 36V MXUS(5 to 1 reduction ratio)and this combo has been reliable for a couple of years. Only 23 mph on 12S, but climbs well for a mini-motor. It too, needs a "slight push" from a dead stop, but it has become second nature and is a non-issue.

 

[zukster]

So far the $15 BMSBattery KU63 Controller is doing the best job.

I just upgraded the main capacitor to 63V 470uF and took it out for a long burn with a couple of 15S Lipo test packs charged close to 63V. It packs a punch and held out fine so far.

I will try modifying the R50 resistor next to see if I can change the 27.5 LVC to something higher. I think I will take off the surface mount resistors and drill a small hole through the board and attach a couple of small wires I can attached different resistors to try, or possibly a voltage trimmer to fine tune it instead.

 

[bluovalguy]

So far the $15 BMSBattery KU63 Controller is doing the best job.

I just upgraded the main capacitor to 63V 470uF and took it out for a long burn with a couple of 15S Lipo test packs charged close to 63V. It packs a punch and held out fine so far.

I will try modifying the R50 resistor next to see if I can change the 27.5 LVC to something higher. I think I will take off the surface mount resistors and drill a small hole through the board and attach a couple of small wires I can attached different resistors to try, or possibly a voltage trimmer to fine tune it instead.

So you left the rest of the 50v caps in place? Do the others not see full voltage or just not as concerned about them as the main power cap? I have a KU65 which I assumed had 63v caps but found all but one are 50v. Been running 62v max without issues but am worried about it. The main cap is easy to get to so it would be quick to replace... the rest of them are buried under other stuff.

 

[zukster]

So you left the rest of the 50v caps in place?

Yes. I suspect that the controller somehow regulates the voltage down below 50v for the current flowing through those other caps. I've blown a cap in another Keywin controller and it was the same cap as what blew in my KU63. I'm calling it the main power cap but there is probably a better description.

I have a KU65 which I assumed had 63v caps but found all but one are 50v.

What is the other one? If its already 63V and its the main power cap, you're probably fine.

I just took off the R50 surface mount resistors and replaced them with an 18 turn 50K ohm voltage trimmer. I dialed it in to give me an LVC of about 52.5v.

Getting the trimmer connected to the surface traces where the SMC resistors were is not what I would call fun. I've never done this kind of small component work before. I had to use a 2.5x lamp magnifier and first solder some small wires onto the traces. Then I connected the wires to the trimmer. Then I put drops of crazy glue on the board where the wires connect to the traces so the traces will not peel off.

I will be testing it soon and will let everyone know if it works to do this.

 

[bluovalguy]

So you left the rest of the 50v caps in place?

Yes. I suspect that the controller somehow regulates the voltage down below 50v for the current flowing through those other caps. I've blown a cap in another Keywin controller and it was the same cap as what blew in my KU63. I'm calling it the main power cap but there is probably a better description.

I have a KU65 which I assumed had 63v caps but found all but one are 50v.

What is the other one? If its already 63V and its the main power cap, you're probably fine.

So I'm not sure which one is considered the main power cap... the biggest one is coming right off the main +/- inputs (50v 1000uF, see pic) so it's definitely seeing 62v at full charge. Then there's 1 63v medium sized cap in the middle of the board, 5 other smaller 50v caps, one 26v and 1 16v.

 

[zukster]

I'm no expert but its probably the big one by the shunt. I don't know why they would but a 63v cap in the middle. Have you ever hit a steep hill on a freshly charged battery pack and applied full throttle for a minute or so? That's what popped mine. If I was you I might upgrade the 50v 1000uF to a 63v 1000uF if you can find one that will fit.

 

[motomech]

Zukster, any luck with your LVC mod?

 

[zukster]

Zukster, any luck with your LVC mod?

Well the bike runs with the mod but I have not tested the LVC yet. I just built up a new bike with a 48 tooth front cog and 11 rear to give me some speed. I'm getting another Q100C laced into a rim for it. So I'll be itching to try it soon with a 63V 15S Lipo pack. With the 201 RPM Q100C, it gets it going fast enough to exceed what feels comfortable peddling with 44 tooth front and 11 rear. So I'm trying the 48 cog to better keep up to the motor for speed. I also made a 1800 mAH 15S pack for testing. Stay tuned.

 

[bluovalguy]

I'm no expert but its probably the big one by the shunt. I don't know why they would but a 63v cap in the middle. Have you ever hit a steep hill on a freshly charged battery pack and applied full throttle for a minute or so? That's what popped mine. If I was you I might upgrade the 50v 1000uF to a 63v 1000uF if you can find one that will fit.

Thanks for the feedback. I have gone full throttle like that, but only a few times. I ordered some replacement 63v caps for both the smaller 47uf and also the main 1000uf. Would have done 100v but the 1000uf was too big. Might only install the main one depending on how hard it is to get at the others.

Newbie question... when it popped did the controller just shut down? How did you know it was the cap that popped? Could you see physical damage? Thanks.

 

[zukster]

> Would have done 100v but too big.

Same here.

The bike did not go anymore. No exciting explosions or poping noises. When I opened it up it was obvious the 50v cap was done in. The foil top pops up like Jiffypop when they go. The controller probably would have be okay if I just replaced it, but I had a couple of more to use on stand-by (for 15 bucks I have a couple of spares).

 

[zukster]

Zukster, any luck with your LVC mod?

Tested today finally. The mod worked but the cut off was a little off. I calculated for about 3.5 volts * 15S = 52.5 volt pack level LVC, but it was cutting off when the cells measured about 3.7 volts when I tested them after the controller cut off the power. So something is a bit off with the formula I was using to adjust the R50 resistance, which I calculated as 22.24 kohms where the stock value for the 27.5 LVC was measured at 11.08 kohms.

Because I installed a voltage trimmer resistor rather than a fixed value resistor, I'll just adjust it down a bit until I get the cells closer to being about 3.5 volts after cut off. The reason for my using such a conservative value is because my pack is built from 3300 mAH cells and they tend to sag more and get out of balance more than the 5800 mAH cells I normally use. So if the pack is a bit unbalanced, a low cell could be say 3.3 volts when others are 3.5 volts. Add .2 volts for sag (which I have observed) and were down to a possible 3.1 volts for a low cell on a badly unbalanced pack. I always balance charge my packs so if one is this unbalanced and a cell goes too low, the pack is probably getting old and its time to get a new pack anyway. So it will be important for me to monitor for low cells and not attempt to charge them if they have gone too low.