Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

[miro13car]

apparently mine is V2.3
belive or not but there is nothing about what version is it, anywhere in paper manual I got with CA.
I simply belived I had the one discussed here.

 

[Diamondback]

I believe you can also set the total distance in v2 units.

Also, the version number appears on the screen when powering up.

Jason.

 

[teklektik]

apparently mine is V2.3
belive or not but there is nothing about what version is it, anywhere in paper manual I got with CA.
I simply belived I had the one discussed here.

Here is a link to the V2.23 Manual available on the Grin Tech CA page. Please refer to the cover page for the device version and section 8.16 for a brief discussion of preloading the odometer setting in the Advanced Setup Menu.

 

[miro13car]

there is NO CA version on the cover on USER MANUAL,
YOU DON'T believe me? I already wrote.

the Cycle Analist
Large Screen Edition
User Manual
that is on cover page you want me to look at?
no version

 

[teklektik]

there is NO CA version on the cover on USER MANUAL,
YOU DON'T believe me? I already wrote.

the Cycle Analist
Large Screen Edition
User Manual
that is on cover page you want me to look at?
no version

My mistake. The 2nd page of the PDF - page 1 of the manual.

 

[amberwolf]

I believe you can also set the total distance in v2 units.

I can in mine, which is V2.23, in the advanced setup section, under Set TotDist, IIRC.

 

[lollandster]

I just tried the B20 software and I noticed a strange behavior. When I give full throttle with the wheel raised from the ground the CA will cut power for half a second just before reaching full speed. There are no limit flags raised that I can see.

 

[justin_le]

I just tried the B20 software

That was quick! I just barely uploaded it.

and I noticed a strange behavior. When I give full throttle with the wheel raised from the ground the CA will cut power for half a second just before reaching full speed. There are no limit flags raised that I can see.

Yes, that is actually the rapid acceleration of the wheel that is causing the speed limit to cut out, due to the differential speed gain. What happens is that the CA sees that the vehicle is quickly accelerating towards the speed limit, and even if it hasn't reached it it yet it is pre-emptively scaling back the throttle so that you don't overshoot. With a person on the bike and a normal amount of inertia, this works great. But with the wheel off the ground, then it accelerates up to speed so fast that this kicks in even well below the actual speed limit point. Once the wheel is no longer accelerating, then it will hold the speed fine.

Are you running the speedo signal from hall signals on a direct drive motor or with a magnet and sensor?

-Justin

 

[justin_le]

There are no limit flags raised that I can see.

I should also mention, it's tricker to flag this condition than it might seem. So at the moment, the speed limit flag will only get set high if you are actually going faster than the set speed, even though there may be some limiting going on before then due to the acceleration. It's on the agenda to try and set that flag even if your not at the full speed, I just haven't found a clever way to do it within the existing code framework. And I didn't think anyone would pick up on it quite so fast!

-Justin

 

[lollandster]

Are you running the speedo signal from hall signals on a direct drive motor or with a magnet and sensor?

It's the DPS version so no hall signals. I was out trying the new software on the street just now and you are right, it isn't a problem when I'm riding the bike.

That was quick! I just barely uploaded it.

http://ebike.ca/drainbrain/ is indexable, I guess I timed it pretty good when I checked it.

 

[justin_le]

Is it possible to alter the firmware so that you don’t need the diode in direct connection mode? You could set the port as an input when not limiting the throttle. That way you would not need the diode and you could monitor the throttle voltage via the input. It would then be easy for me to compare the two setups, as I can just swap plugs on the throttle line. At present I have to move the green wire from TH0 to THd

That is one of my biggest regrets about the circuit design was not to make it so that I could tri-state the throttle output. Had I done this it would be a lot easier to accomodate people who just want the CA3 as a monitoring device or as a throttle pull-down device. If the signal was just coming from the PIC pin directly that would be doable in software, but the signal goes through an op-amp buffer circuit to produce a much stiffer source and to further isolate the micro from the outside world, making it not so easy. It would require adding some analog switches to flip the circuitry around, and those would require more digital I/O controls from the micro of which there aren't any left.

I have also tested the speed limiting. With the stock CA settings it was surging violently. I think it is due to the high torque motor in a light bike. This bike dose accelerate fast.
I revised the IntSGain down to 40 and the DSGain down to 50 and it smoothed out the surging. I did note that it takes a while for the speed limit to kick in. E.g I set it at 19kph for the test, when I accelerate it over shoots to 36kph and then shuts off the throttle until it drops to about 16kph, then it speeds up and settles around 18.9kph.

36 kph is a lot of overshoot! I did the initial stock tuning with a 750 watt motor setup where the initial overshoot is more like 2-3 kph at most. I would try increasing the DSGain until it starts becoming jittery when the speed has settled, and then back off a bit, and see if that tames the initial response. What is your 0-30 acceleration time like anyways?

-Justin

 

[justin_le]

So as has already been discovered, the CA3 Beta20 firmware is finished and available here:
http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_CAV3.php
At the bottom of the page is the list and description of all items in the setup menu.

There are a lot of changes as I'm trying to get this as close as possible to the look and feel of the first release code.

1) Mode Presets: You can now have 3 different groups of CA limit settings stored on the device. So there is a new menu item for enabling, 1, 2, or 3 presets and naming each of them as well.


For the names, there's a selection to choose from including default, economy, assist, street, offroad, unlimited, and Power, and if you have other suggestions I could fit a few more in for sure:



The settings which are linked to each preset are those that make sense to change for different operating modes. This includes the speed, current, and power limits, the throttle function and ramp rate, the auxilliary potentiometer function, and the PAS assist mode. It does not include the hardware settings (ex, #poles, wheel size etc), the feedback gains (those should be tuned once to match the hardware), or the calibration or display preferences, all of which will be the same across all presets.

2) Preset Hot Swaps: While you can change between chosen mode presets through the setup menu, this can also be done on the fly at any point by pressing down the left button and then tapping on the right button to switch modes.


Similarly, if you press the right button and then tap on the left, you can swap between the different battery pack presets. In the Beta20 code there is also a 3rd "C" battery option for those with a collection of packs:
View attachment 9

3) More "Disabled" Choices: There is a choice to disable the torque sensor if you don't have one connected so that you won't have garbage numbers for human watts etc., and there is also the ability to preset the gain value for a THUN sensor if that's what you are using, and then select "custom" if you want to specify the Nm/V directly.



4) Torque Offset: This was mentioned previously and is something that I've been really digging on recent test rides. Rather than having the proportional torque assistance engage right from 0 N-m, you can set a torque threshold that the rider has to apply to the pedals before it starts to kick in. So for me, when I am riding in PAS torque control mode I usually don't want any assistance if I'm only putting in like 100-150 watts. This achieves that, and then still allows for proportional boosting with higher levels of pedal torque. You really have to earn your assist wattage!


5) More Useful Menu Previews: I've tried to make all the content in the preview line of the setup menu as useful as possible. So for instance, with the speedometer setup, it computes your equivalent inch wheel diameter based on the mm circumference, and the arrow on the right toggles up or down depending on the state of the speedo input sensor.

Similarly, for the throttle and the auxiliary potentiometer, it not only shows the voltage on each of those pins but also the scaled value as a percentage between your min and max input points. So it is easy to very the actual limit range with different positions.

 

[teklektik]

Justin-
It's super to see the preset feature - thanks!

But in the spirit of always asking for More!:

My build uses the Vpot/CTRL option to select three different Power levels using Ctrl->AuxFunct=Power(W). However, with the advent of the presets, it would be very nice if this external switching could be extended to provide preset selection as an alternate option (e.g. Ctrl->AuxFunct=Preset ). Here the preset would be selected directly by determining the voltage on the Vpot pad. The voltage range Ctrl->MinAuxIn - Ctrl->MaxAuxIn might be divided into the same number of equally sized voltage bands as there are presets and a preset would be selected by the band in which Vpot fell.

For instance, if
Ctrl->MinAuxIn=0.5v
Ctrl->MaxAuxIn=3.5v
PrSt->Cnt={1,2,&3}

then the three equally sized selection bands would nominally be:
preset1 = [0.5 <= Vpot < 1.5v]
preset2 = [1.5 <= Vpot < 2.5v]
preset3 = [2.5 <= Vpot < 3.5v]

extending the top and bottom bands to include out-of-bound values 0-5v gives:
preset1 = [0.0 <= Vpot < 1.5v]
preset2 = [1.5 <= Vpot < 2.5v]
preset3 = [2.5 <= Vpot < 5.0v]

so Vpot={1v, 2v, 3v} would select presets 1, 2, or 3 respectively. In this example, a 3 preset selection switch could be fabricated using a standard on-off-on switch (or commercial LMH switch) and a simple resistor divider using low precision fixed resistors.

This would extend the preset feature to a 'touch-only' external switch that could safely be done at speed without releasing the bars or diverting eyes from the road - depending on the differences between presets, any single or group of settings would become candidates for external switch control.

Also, adding names to the list of preset names like {High, Medium Low, 1, 2, 3} would provide some generic selection options not so tightly bound to major operating modes or use cases.

Just a thought

 

[justin_le]

My build uses the Vpot/CTRL option to select three different Power levels using Ctrl->AuxFunct=Power(W). However, with the advent of the presets, it would be very nice if this external switching could be extended to provide preset selection as an alternate option (e.g. Ctrl->AuxFunct=Preset ). Here the preset would be selected directly by determining the voltage on the Vpot pad. The voltage range Ctrl->MinAuxIn - Ctrl->MaxAuxIn might be divided into the same number of equally sized number of voltage bands as there are presets and a preset would be selected by the band in which Vpot fell.

Well at least when you ask for more it is always well thought out ! The only funky thing about this is that I currently have the aux input function something that is independently set with each preset, so for this to work properly we'd need to change that so that the aux function was global to all 3. Otherwise you could change modes to a preset state that no longer responds to the Aux Input by changing presets. But I can't think of too many cases where say you would want the aux input change in function between modes, so maybe that's not so bad to reduce this to just one option for all 3 modes, and then enable preset selection from the aux input.

OK, I think I'll do it. The screen would definitely need to alert the rider of the mode change, but it's possible to do this without causing any interruption in the CA's operation or throttle output. And for making CA more OEM friendly this helps a lot since the 3 position toggle can easily be mounted on the bike chassis or handlebar.

Also, adding names to the list of preset names like {High, Medium Low, 1, 2, 3} would provide some generic selection options not so tightly bound to major operating modes or use cases.

Great point. The numbers 1,2 and 3 show up as a prefix to each name, but you're right that Hi-Med-Low make a lot of sense.

Also, there is a small something going on with the B20 firmware that if you are running a current or power throttle, the moment the throttle starts to engage you can feel a tiny kick before it then smoothly ramps up. It's subtle on normal powered ebikes but if you have something with lots of oomph it might be more pronounced, and I know just what's going on and will have it sorted in the next update.

-Justin

 

[Opus the Poet]

OK I'm sure i saw this somewhere in this thread but how much does swapping a V2CA for a V3CA and adding a Thun change the price of a 9C motor kit? I really don't feel like going through thousands of posts to find that one single post and reply.

 

[teklektik]

OK, I think I'll do it.

Very cool -Thanks! It will be great to get rid of the annoying trimpots and be able to configure LMH style presets using the CA setup menus. Although the final implementation might differ, assuming the preliminary proposal above, the switch might be wired as:


With R1 = R2 = 4.7K I think this is the minimum implementation assuming settings of:

• Ctrl->AuxFunct=Preset
  Ctrl->MinAuxIn=0.0v
  Ctrl->MaxAuxIn=5.0v
  PrSt->Cnt={1,2,&3}

This would work with the Grin Tech T-3Switch with the resistors positioned either across the CA PCB pads or across pins in the switch JST connector.

 

[justin_le]

OK I'm sure i saw this somewhere in this thread but how much does swapping a V2CA for a V3CA and adding a Thun change the price of a 9C motor kit? I really don't feel like going through thousands of posts to find that one single post and reply.

This is not a sales thread so please send email to info@ebikes.ca for any questions like that.

 

[cruzxia]

Justin

0-30 kph is 3.5 seconds, with it limited to 1800w
It is setup to provide 2300w for the first 0.5-1 second of throttle.
launching is hard as it wheel stands.

B20 issues
I setup Mode 1 & 2,
First thing is that the throttle worked in mode 2, but was not transfered to mode 1, (I am back using direct throttle, not pass through) and mode 1 went to pass through throttle after setting up 2 modes . This should not be part of the mode setting as the throttle input type should not alter.

I changed the throttle input in mode 1 to disabled, however it had no effect. The max throttle in mode 1 is limited to the Min throttle setting.
I think that it is in pas through mode even though it is disabled.

cruzxia

 

[cruzxia]

Here is the throttle out images. You can see in mode 1 throttle out is limited to 0.80v
In Mode 2 it is normal set at 4.50v

 

[teklektik]

Printable Setup Summary for CA v3B20

The setting summary for the newer v3B21 release is available here.
The setting summary for the previous v3B19 release is available here.
Unofficial basic setup notes are available here.
Please see the Grin Tech Site for a detailed explanation of Setup Parameters.

Printable versions for saving settings - tabular format for multiple presets (Portrait.PDF, Landscape.PDF, XLS):View attachment CA_V3B20_Setup.zip

 

[wyvernwaddell]

Thanks teklektik-you are the MAN (and Justin too) I'm buying one for my Yuba. Now I can browse settings...

 

[oatnet]

I finally, FINALLY got to use the beta V3 on my xlyte 54xx build (click here).

Justin, the rich feature set has had me smiling for days - from the throttle mapping to the convenient mode-swapping to GPS analogging, I cannot get over how powerful the CA has become. Thank you. I cut the heatshrink on the CA's plug, pulled out the green wire, and ran it into a throttle connector. Have you considered selling a similar cable adaptor for use on controllers with earlier DP plugs? One side has a 6 pin plug that accepts the V3, the other side breaks the green wire out to a 3-pin throttle connector, and the other 5 wires go to an earlier CA-DP plug.

teklektik, thanks for your detailed user guides, it really spoon-fed me the setup, made the new features more accessible, and kept me from posting a dozen or so retrospectively stupid questions. However, I am having trouble putting in an rshunt value. Does this look odd to you, or am I just misunderstanding something?











-JD

 

[teklektik]

I finally, FINALLY got to use the beta V3 on my xlyte 54xx build (click here).

teklektik, thanks for your detailed user guides, ... However, I am having trouble putting in an rshunt value. Does this look odd to you, or am I just misunderstanding something?

Thanks for the kind words - appreciated.

From your pics it looks like you are flashed to B20 and have Cal->Range=Hi (kW). There appear to be a couple of wonky things going on there that are reminiscent of an RShunt issue in B19 where the xxxx_NoCal.hex file got the RShunt internal data format out of sync with the data display routines so the data appeared magically transformed just as you report. I tried your '7000' value on my B20 and it worked okay (although I don't understand the display format - seems like there is a missing leading decimal point on the mOhm field).

• This is going to need assistance from Justin to sort out.

That said, I would like to call your attention to a remark by Justin in a post above:

Also, there is a small something going on with the B20 firmware that if you are running a current or power throttle, the moment the throttle starts to engage you can feel a tiny kick before it then smoothly ramps up. It's subtle on normal powered ebikes but if you have something with lots of oomph it might be more pronounced, and I know just what's going on and will have it sorted in the next update.

This is giving my bike quite a jerk when I open the throttle and my controllers are only programmed for a combined 4400W - your bike is a monster by comparison (bike lust!). I am switching back to B19 and perhaps you might consider doing the same (I'm assuming that you want to use closed loop current or power throttle...). I have many hundreds of miles on B19 with power throttle and find it to be very solid and well behaved. Also, the version on the Grin Tech V3 page should handle Cal->Range and Cal->RShunt properly for you, sort of killing two birds with one stone. Justin seems to have a good handle on the throttle jerk issue so B21 will be along before long .
Just an option to keep in mind...

 

[teklektik]

Justin-
I finally had a chance to play with V3B20 - here's a few thoughts and issues:

Aux Preset Function

...it would be very nice if this external switching could be extended to provide preset selection as an alternate option (e.g. Aux->AuxFunct=Preset ).

...The only funky thing about this is that I currently have the aux input function something that is independently set with each preset, so for this to work properly we'd need to change that so that the aux function was global to all 3. Otherwise you could change modes to a preset state that no longer responds to the Aux Input by changing presets. But I can't think of too many cases where say you would want the aux input change in function between modes, so maybe that's not so bad to reduce this to just one option for all 3 modes, and then enable preset selection from the aux input.

After looking at the new B20 Setup scheme, I see that ThrI->CntrlMode is preference-specific. This is kind of handy but brings up an issue with making Aux->AuxFunct global to control the Preset option - it means that throttle scaling might be lost when changing presets because there is no means to make the limit type of Aux->AuxFunct track a preset-dependent limit set in ThrI->CntrlMode. A solution might be to add a new Aux parameter that is global and leave the Aux limit selection associated with the preferences, perhaps like this:

• Aux -> Funct = { Off | Limit | Preset } (global)
• Aux -> Limit = { Amps Lim | Speed Lim| Power Lim | Pas Level } (preset-specific)

Software Updater Failure

Using the v1.1 updater I repeated got into a state where the app would report that it was downloading but seemed unable to communicate with the CA, The cursor would just flicker with an hourglass every few seconds and the flash would never proceed. I tried multiple COM ports and restarted the app many times to no avail. I then ran the older not-so-automated version (circa 2012-10-16) and had no difficulty flashing. The 1.1 version had worked previously.

Updater Precharge Button Delay

When using the Software Updater v1.1 and power cycling the CA, my CA comes up on the pre-charge button and the app begins trying to flash before I have an opportunity to get the main power switch ON. This seems to work, but it seems it might be better to delay a few seconds after detecting the CA and before actually attempting the download. This will get power switching transients over with before the flash begins and ensure that the precharge resistor is no longer in play and dropping the voltage. I have the option of power cycling by alternate means, but some bikes may not be so equipped and will be stuck with only the precharge approach and perhaps a more marginal operating voltage as flash begins...

ThrO -> Down Ramp Is Global

It looks like ThrO->UpRamp is preference-specific but ThrO->DownRamp is global. No big deal, but it seems a little asymmetric. DownRamp probably isn't as generally useful as UpRamp, but I just thought I'd call this out in case it was accidental...

"Setup" Button Swap

I see that the button to enter Setup has been swapped back to the V2 style (left button). I'm sure there are good reasons, but I still think using the Right button is easier (just registering a vote here in case design decisions go democratic )

Changing Number of Presets

There is an issue with the preset management where PrSt->CrntPrst is not forced to be consistent with PrSt->PresetCnt. The problem is manifest when there is more than one preset and the preset count is reduced causing PrSt->CrntPrst to be left referencing a retired preset (e.g. If Cnt=3, Crnt=3, then set Cnt=1. Crnt will still refer to 3). I might suggest simply forcing PrSt->CrntPreset to "1" with associated data shuffling prior to any value reduction of PrSt->PresetCnt, but you get the drift - just a small bookkeeping oversight. It does have some weird effects though: in one instance a combination of meddling with the preset count and changing the current preset using both Setup and the quick-change button shortcut somehow managed to overwrite all my #1 presets with copies of the #2 presets...

Setup Motor Burp

When sequencing through actual setup parameters (not the section headers), my motors bark a bit on leaving each parameter. It's not necessary to actually change anything, just scrolling is enough. This doesn't seem harmful for moderate power bikes like mine, but it's a little unnerving. (Related to throttle kick issue and more noticeable on certain bikes?)

 

[teklektik]

Does this look odd to you, or am I just misunderstanding something?

...I don't understand the display format - seems like there is a missing leading decimal point on the mOhm field).

JD-
I just checked the Hi-power RShunt entry field in B19 and it is formatted as (0.xxxx) so that may help you interpret the B20 data entry (xxxx). It looks like some rough edges may have cropped up during the diverse changes to implement the nifty preset feature.