Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

[mrbill]

I'm running the "Prelim5" firmware.

I'm still having problems getting a good cruise lock with my thumb throttle, especially when I'm riding on rough roads when I can't hold my thumb so that the moving parts of the throttle are held fixed relative to each other. The problem is not as bad as it was with earlier firmware releases that rendered the cruise control nearly unusable for me.

So, I did a quick test on the bench and discovered that upon obtaining cruise lock, the throttle will unlock cruise if its voltage is advanced more than about 0.04 volts (something between 0.03 and 0.05v) from the "throttle in" voltage at the initial cruise lock, even if the threshold voltage is set to a higher figure (e.g. 0.15 or 0.25 volts). I think this is the problem.

Just as the cruise will not lock until the throttle is held within the threshold voltage, I would like to see the throttle prevented from unlocking cruise until it sees an advance of "throttle in" voltage greater than the threshold voltage. If the throttle is already cruising at the maximum throttle, then unlocking or "un-sticking" the throttle would require reducing throttle in voltage by more than the threshold amount, then advancing it again to full before releasing it. Or for the user to just hit the e-brake lever that should be installed with an enabled cruise control.

Can this be done before the "final" release?

 

[Merlin]

today i updated to prelim5

now i have a throttle problem. The Throttle is pumping now.

i tried all ramp settings to check. disabled all max speed,current settings.
and also tried another thottle.

with CA connected the throttles pumps to max speed.
throttle direct to controller theres no pumping to max speed/throttle.

Hmmm - it's a little tough to make out, but towards the end of the video it looks like ThrOUT is following ThrIN as it should -- but that ThrIN is varying up and down for some reason.

• Is that what is happening?
• Are you in PassThru mode?
• You mention that you adjusted the Max Speed setting, but have you adjusted down the gain settings as described on page 18 of the Guide to address issues with rapid wheel acceleration?

thx for answer teklektik,

1. did you mean that ThrIn is some/times oscillating? mh ..i dont think so. will check again. Sometimes i think ThrOUT is oscillating for 1/10 second. But iam not sure. At the End i will post another video from pumping throttle...that was after a 20km test ride (was trying to find a use full setting where i can live with...)
2. Yes iam in PassThru Mode. All other Modes will Pump 2 or 3 times MORE
3. Max Speed is 199kph (i only test in "Offroad modus without any limit to be sure that theres no limit "tweaking" my throttle) I thought first to get a clear throttle and go later to specific wishes (like using PAS or Power or Speed limits)
I tried also the usefull settings i knowned about Plim-> Again and Wgain (150 / 50 default) My Settings goes from 50/10 (my favorite Setting on 500w PAS Limit) to 20/5 ....I will show a video what happend when i was trying to drive with 500w PAS Limit and Wgain 50.

Video after Ride yesterday:
It is FULL THROTTLE from still stand cycle.

[youtube]4MUrOTZOHOk[/youtube]

Video with default Settings (500w PAS limit, Wgain 50)
With Wgain 10 to 5 it is useable...but i can hear that the throttle gets dropouts.....i can also use RampUp/FastUP 2 Seconds. (My Range is 1,38 to 3,51v) so my intend is that 2 Seconds Ramptime/volt i come in >4 seconds from 0 to Full Throttle. On this long Time you can also feel and hear dropouts.
Pedaling from 40 to70RPM makes no difference.


[youtube]60bJuMX9O_g[/youtube]


I dont know if this thread is the right place. so when it is better in technical board please someone move it there.

 

[teklektik]

Hmmm - it's a little tough to make out, but towards the end of the video it looks like ThrOUT is following ThrIN as it should -- but that ThrIN is varying up and down for some reason.
Is that what is happening?

1. did you mean that ThrIn is some/times oscillating? mh ..i dont think so. will check again. Sometimes i think ThrOUT is oscillating for 1/10 second. But iam not sure. At the End i will post another video from pumping throttle...that was after a 20km test ride (was trying to find a use full setting where i can live with...)

I looked at the original video again and THrIN is definitely cycling up and down, but I think was you on the throttle. A little confusing. In any case, the bike will run very differently on the stand, so it's not useful to tune your bike that way or take videos - there's no load. Good try, though...

Are you in PassThru mode?

2. Yes iam in PassThru Mode. All other Modes will Pump 2 or 3 times MORE

Okay - good.

You mention that you adjusted the Max Speed setting, but have you adjusted down the gain settings as described on page 18 of the Guide to address issues with rapid wheel acceleration?

3. Max Speed is 199kph (i only test in "Offroad modus without any limit to be sure that theres no limit "tweaking" my throttle) I thought first to get a clear throttle and go later to specific wishes (like using PAS or Power or Speed limits)
I tried also the usefull settings i knowned about Plim-> Again and Wgain (150 / 50 default) My Settings goes from 50/10 (my favorite Setting on 500w PAS Limit) to 20/5 ....I will show a video what happend when i was trying to drive with 500w PAS Limit and Wgain 50.

You are 100% correct to get simple PassThru mode working before trying other features... but that includes PAS. Don't even bother until the plain throttle works properly.

You did not mention trying the settings from p18 of the Guide. (IntSGain=1, PSGain=0, DSGain=0). See if this helps operation with the PassThru mode throttle (no PAS). With your powerful setup, this may be coming into play.

You have not mentioned if any Limit Flags are asserted when the surging occurs - this will indicate which parameters are giving you trouble. Please check on your next test ride. Without this limit information, we're just guessing....

I dont know if this thread is the right place. so when it is better in technical board please someone move it there.

Nope. This is the right place...

 

[Merlin]

thx tekle...i ride through the rain home as fast as possible (by car ) and will try.
sometimes my english is not good enough to understand technical infos/instructions

...now i read it again and understand


(what i dont understand is why the 6FET and 12FET Lyen/Infineon Controller dont have this Problem?!)

 

[teklektik]

(what i dont understand is why the 6FET and 12FET Lyen/Infineon Controller dont have this Problem?!)

If the DSGain change fixes the symptom, then it's because the 18FET controller can supply more current so you get faster acceleration. DSGain looks at the rapid acceleration and thinks that you will (but haven't yet) exceed the speed limit so it throttles back. This does not show up as an "S" Limit Flag because you actually haven't exceeded the limit yet - the CA is just looking ahead.

DSGain controls the CA's 'future sense' - your more powerful controller may just be scaring it a bit

We'll see when you run your tests...

 

[methods]

RE: Dimpirate questions from above - shunt value and speed indication

I think this was my fault. I had an early batch of CA's programmed with 17 and I was re-flashing with a ghetto programmer (that has been spotty). I think I made the mistake of setting his shunt on one flash and leaving a ghost behind (or however that works... I have seen it a few times on earlier versions) I am sure the problem will be solved by flashing to the latest - so I am going to flash one of my new CA-V3's here, set all of the settings up for him, and ship it out. Then get the one he has later and flash it.

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused/

thanks,
-methods

 

[teklektik]

I had an early batch of CA's programmed with 17 and I was re-flashing with a ghetto programmer (that has been spotty). I think I made the mistake of setting his shunt on one flash and leaving a ghost behind (or however that works... I have seen it a few times on earlier versions)

I'm sure that will fix the issue. This arose because of an early firmware bug that made it impossible to set the entire Rshunt value in Hi Range -a part was always unchanged (your 'ghost' value). At the time, the 'fix' was to flash back to B19 then flash either B20 or B21 on top of it. (dizzy yet? )

So - it probably wasn't your programmer, you just happened to use Hi Range with a certain shunt value and got bitten as did a few others.

...I am going to flash one of my new CA-V3's here, set all of the settings up for him, and ship it out.

Great customer support, by the way.

 

[Merlin]

If the DSGain change fixes the symptom, then it's because the 18FET controller can supply more current so you get faster acceleration. DSGain looks at the rapid acceleration and thinks that you will (but haven't yet) exceed the speed limit so it throttles back. This does not show up as an "S" Limit Flag because you actually haven't exceeded the limit yet - the CA is just looking ahead.

DSGain controls the CA's 'future sense' - your more powerful controller may just be scaring it a bit

We'll see when you run your tests...

Testet today.....IT IS/WAS the DS Gain. Tekle you are my Hero
BUT....now i was setting up PAS for smooth working......no dropouts -> fine. but i hope you have an idea why i have now
throttle overshots when starting pedaling again.
when i start pedaling from 0kph everything is ok.
when i stop pedaling for one second and start again i get a kick in my back and the bike jumps forward
(i can see for 1/10 sec on thrIN/OUT a little jump on ThrOUT)
when i stop pedaling for more then 1-2 seconds, pedaling starts nice and smooth.

i have a 500w limit set on PAS. (with 1000w you get a REALLY kick)
i tried upramp and fastramp to 0,80. downramp from 0,1 to 0,8 ...

it fixes the kick a littlebit...but not really much.

on 22sec it beginns
on 30/31 it stats smooth.
...not really much to see in this wobbling video...better to hear i think. everytime the camera lost the CA it is a overshot throttle
The most Problem is starting from 0kph...stop pedaling at low speed 5-6kph and start after a second. between parking cars this throttle "shot" is not funny and i would never give this bike to my girlfriend.

So....hoping SuperTekle has another answer in his Miracle Pockets

[youtube]NJyE0B5PQPk[/youtube]

 

[teklektik]

Tested today.....IT IS/WAS the DS Gain.
...
BUT....i have now throttle overshots when starting pedaling again.
when i start pedaling from 0kph everything is ok.
when i stop pedaling for one second and start again i get a kick in my back and the bike jumps forward
(i can see for 1/10 sec on thrIN/OUT a little jump on ThrOUT)
when i stop pedaling for more then 1-2 seconds, pedaling starts nice and smooth.

i have a 500w limit set on PAS. (with 1000w you get a REALLY kick)
i tried upramp and fastramp to 0,80. downramp from 0,1 to 0,8 ...

Wonderful news!! (Thanks for the kind words, but I'm just on secretarial duty for this project - Justin is the visionary! )
Also - the index at the end of this post can answer lots of questions quickly, if you can figure out the topic descriptions...

Anyhow - I am able to duplicate the different behaviors that you experience:

• on getaway (smooth),
• 1 sec pause (kick in the pants), and
• 2+ sec pause (smooth).

Pretty surprising.

It seems that what is happening is that with the brief 1 sec pause, the power falls off somewhat, but not completely to zero, then overshoots PASWatts substantially. This does not seem to happen as much on getaway as the power increases slowly and the wattage approaches PASWatts slowly and just settles in with only a small overshoot. The case of '2+ seconds' is actually much like getaway because there is time for the applied wattage to fall close to zero, so when pedaling re-starts, it's pretty much the same case as just starting off.

So -- one thing that appears to help is to reduce DownRamp as small as possible (set to 0.00 and it will change to the lowest allowed value). This makes the power fall off rapidly so even brief pauses in pedaling will behave like the 'getaway' case.

But most importantly, because the PAS system is based on Watts, WGain is in play (as can be seen by the 'W' Limit Flag). Kepler indicates that reducing WGain to 10 gives him good response. This may not be exactly optimal for you, but seems a good place to start. In my tests, it completely eliminated the 'kick in the pants' overshoot.

I have gotten odd results messing with UpRamp and FastRamp in this problem situation and so don't have good recommendations.

Apologies for being a little vague here, but I'm kind of winging it with your PAS problem... I'm only installing my PAS rig now and so still can't run real road tests to help understand your issue... All my PAS work to date has been on the bench with a test rig (this post) which works fine of some things, but can't duplicate the real-world effects of the motor and changing speed/pedaling, etc. It would be best if we had some V3 PAS users with very powerful bikes who could describe settings that they found effective.

 

[Kepler]

Anyhow - I am able to duplicate the different behaviors that you experience:
on getaway (smooth),
1 sec pause (kick in the pants), and
2+ sec pause (smooth).

Is perhaps this behavior due to UpRamp interacting with 2+ sec pause (smooth) and FastRamp interacting with 1 sec pause (kick in the pants)?

I would try setting UpRamp and FastRamp the same, say 2Sec and see if that makes a difference.

I am working on getting the PAS to my liking on my Fighter at the moment. This is a Speed PAS setup and I have around 3000W on tap. I really like the AutoPAS function and want to get this spot on. At the moment it has the same surge issue as described by Merlin. I need to go back over my throttleIn and ThottleOut settings and tighten up any dead bands before I make any more changes. I like a responsive throttle on this bike and have both the ramps set to 0.5. This probably isn't helping the surge and will see if I can tune it out with the WGain.

Anyway, working on it over here and will let you know if I get some improvement.

 

[Merlin]

wGain i have allready set to 10.
I have found a "good" usable setting on the ramp settings.

1,25 UpRamp
1,25 FastRamp

thats on AutoPAS and Throttle given not the accelerating i know and like...but below Ramp times 1,0 "the kick" is still there.
hm hm hm....
-------------------------
my downramp is 0,03 but on 50% the time after stop pedaling the bike runs a full second further...
how can i set up a quicker stop ?!
-------------------------
my last PreSet is the Legal one....25kph max Speedlimit. (now i think the DS Gain, Int S Gain, PS Gain Settings catches me up)
DS Gain i need below 50 for the "throttle output without oscillating"
PS Gain is set to default 1,0v/kph ...more or less will cause in ruff and oscillating PAS/throttle when reaching speed limit.
(or nothing i can feel or reproduce that i can say: Yep 0,2 more or less will be better)
So i played with IntS Gain....
Iam now at 50 again and not really on the right way how to find out why the bike runs from dead stop above (speedlimit 25kph) to 32-33kph...
here it stops immediately Pass power ...
when it comes under 25kph limit the PAS Power starts exact at 24kph and then it goes smooth to 25kph.
Now you can ride smooth 25kph. starting pedaling at 10-12 kph SOMETIMES (50/50) the Bike runs again up to 32-33 kph......stops direct PAS Power and the same again at 24kph.

any ideas?
------------------------

...i will crimp now a 3 speed switch to set up it for PAS Level. (250/500/750)
Will hope that works

 

[teklektik]

I would try setting UpRamp and FastRamp the same, say 2Sec and see if that makes a difference.

I am working on getting the PAS to my liking on my Fighter at the moment. This is a Speed PAS setup and I have around 3000W on tap. At the moment it has the same surge issue as described by Merlin.

Anyway, working on it over here and will let you know if I get some improvement.

Kepler- thanks for the report. Sorry to hear you are experiencing this problem, but great you have a bike that can duplicate the issue. Looking forward to your results

BTW - I believe you will find that setting ThrO->FastThrsh = 0.00 will take FastRamp out of the picture so you don't need to make double settings - only UpRamp.

 

[teklektik]

my last PreSet is the Legal one....25kph max Speedlimit. (now i think the DS Gain, Int S Gain, PS Gain Settings catches me up)
DS Gain i need below 50 for the "throttle output without oscillating"
any ideas?

I was afraid you had another preset, but thought it was important to do the DSGain setting to identify the problem before making things more complicated. Now we focus on getting your SGain settings fixed.

You are having the same problem that Sebbo had a while back. The answer is to properly adjust IntSGain, PSGain, and DSGain instead of simply setting them to deactivate all speed control. If you can get these properly set, the settings will work for all presets.

Please have a look at this post. It describes a setup procedure for speed settings for powerful bikes like yours. My bike is 3.3kW with gear motors and so has huge torque off the line - it accelerates rapidly and has lots of overshoot. This procedure was developed on that bike and seemed to work fine, but hasn't been tested on other bikes so I can make guarantees (the lack of testing is why it does not yet appear in the Guide).

Please give this a try and see how it works - do the setup without PAS. It's experimental so No Promises - but I would be interested in your feedback.

 

[izeman]

question about pas and potentiometer ...

i ordered a 12 pole pas and want to install it now. connection should be no problem. for regular riding there is still a thumb throttle installed. i want to combine the pas with a potentiometer to adjust the assist level. afair this has to be a 5k potentiometer. correct?

if this is installed at the aux input, pas enabled, and i have 3 preset. legal (25km/h, 600w), street (2000w), and unlimited:

.) will the potentiometer limit power/amps/speed according to the selected preset? so eg. in "street" it will limit pas from 0w-2000w?
.) how will it behave for a limit which has 2 limiting factors?
.) how will it behave for an unlimited setup?

.) will i still have 100% power (in dependance from preset level) when using the thumb throttle?

sorry if this was answered before, but i don't really fully understand all those config options and cross references between them.

 

[teklektik]

afair this has to be a 5k potentiometer. correct?

Yes, but be sure it is a linear pot or the control curve will be odd...

if this is installed at the aux input, pas enabled, and i have 3 preset. legal (25km/h, 600w), street (2000w), and unlimited:
.) will the potentiometer limit power/amps/speed according to the selected preset? so eg. in "street" it will limit pas from 0w-2000w?

It will control according to the Aux->ScaleLim setting in the present preset. parameters as shown here:


As shown above, it will do that only if PASWatts is set to 2000W and MaxPower is 2000W or greater.

.) how will it behave for a limit which has 2 limiting factors?

Not sure what you mean here. AuxPot can only scale a single Limiting parameter so you really can't configure it for two.

.) how will it behave for an unlimited setup?

As above, it will limit according to what you have configured. For instance, if in the Unlimited preset you have:

• Aux->ScaleLim = Power Lim
• ThrI->CntrlMode = Power (W)
• PLim->MaxPower = 2000W

then it will allow bike power to be adjusted from 0-100% of 2000W and the throttle would control 0-100% of that pot setting.

.) will i still have 100% power (in dependance from preset level) when using the thumb throttle?

Your throttle will be affected if you have configured for Speed, Amps, or Power limiting. But if you choose PAS Level, the throttle will NOT be affected and can deliver 100% always. What you can do is to set MaxPower lower in the PAS preset so the throttle will not be so twitchy at slower PAS speeds, and leave it set to 2000W in the Unlimited preset for flat out running.

Please download this file so you can see which parameters are global (apply to all presets) and which are preset-specific. This will help you figure out what you can set to get the behavior you want in each preset.

Not to confuse the issue, but there is also this second option:

• If you wish to have the throttle always controlled by a 3-pos switch AND have a separate pot exclusively for PAS, then you can use a setup as described in the 'Tips and Tricks' Appendix of the Guide. In that configuration, the pot actually applies a phoney torque signal (like a Thun) and you configure for torque mode instead of AutoPAS. Operation is essentially identical to AutoPAS except that PASWatts is not used and there is some assist power scaling with RPM above 55rpm (which AutoPAS does not do - it's on or off). Since in this case the pot is not connected to AuxIn, AuxIn can be used with a switch or second pot for Amps or Power limiting to scale the throttle even when in PAS mode.

So many options....

 

[teklektik]

Making progress on getting PAS installed - ran out of room for hands-on-grip controls, so - the bar-end PAS Knob...

 

[Merlin]

O M G How cool is that

thats a really good idea. How did you get it holding on handlbar end?!

 

[teklektik]

How did you get it holding on handlbar end?!

It's done with a miniature pot with 1/8" (3mm) shaft. The body of the pot is only 1/2" (13mm) which fits inside the bars which are 7/8" (22mm)O.D. and 5/8" (15.8mm) I.D.

You could mount the pot right in the end of the rubber grip or in a 7/8" circle of aluminum sandwiched between the grip and the bar end. I did some crazy thing and screwed the pot into a slug of Delrin (plastic) with the shaft through the slug to add support to the shaft - then slid the slug into the bar end with the shaft sticking throught the slug and grip end. I posted pics and details in my build thread - too far OT for here...

 

[Kepler]

That is a really cool mounting spot for the POT. Nice one. 8) How easy is it to adjust on the fly? The only thing that would worry me about that mounting spot is having it get knocked a damaged.

 

[teklektik]

How easy is it to adjust on the fly? The only thing that would worry me about that mounting spot is having it get knocked a damaged.

Well, since it's not connected to anything yet - it works perfectly!

Seriously, I think it will work out okay - there are a few ways to use it, roll it with small finger, grab by wrapping fingers around it and slide hand around grip like turning a throttle, etc. Hopefully, I'll know the real answer soon - (we've been having this unbelievable weather and I can't bring myself to work on the bike instead of riding....). I will say, though, that none of the means to use it would qualify as physiokinetically natural...

Yep - it's not a very robust installation - the pot has a small shaft and the knob is exposed in one of the the worst possible places. But - it's not a trail bike and I don't lean the bike to park it, etc, so I'm hoping it will last a while. There is a neck on the Delrin slug that sticks through the grip so the shaft is completely supported right up to the back face of the knob. The knob was a lucky find - aluminum and less than 11mm thick - doesn't stick out too far.

But, as I said, I ran out of room, and this seemed too cool not to build

 

[Kepler]

Not having much luck with getting the RPM PAS to work the way I want it too on My Fighter. Spent a couple of hours testing all sorts of settings.

The main problem I am having are momentary dropouts while pedalling. I have tried dozens of PAS start / stop RPM settings and although I can get a perfect start and stop in relation my pedal input, this momentary dropout is proving difficult to resolve in this version of firmware.

Looking at the diagnostic screen, the thrOut stays steady then suddenly drops off for a split second and recovers again. This seems to be regardless of how fast or slow my cadence is. Dont know what to try next.

On another note, seem to have the surge under control by keeping the WGain nice and low. I am using a setting of 3 and although its slow to wind up with the RPM PAS, it does stay smooth. I dont mind the slow wind up when pedalling as the progessive power increase feels quite natural. Throttle is still nice and sharp with ThrRamp set to 0.5.

So if I can just get this drop out sorted, I will be a happy man.

On another note, the torque PAS on my other bike is just spot on with Prelim5 firmware.


Also a quick update on the motor temp monitoring at the motor axle. I found I needed to drop my settings to 30 deg C and 35 deg C cutout. This is doing what it should with hard 3000W riding on a little BPM geared motor seeing the thermal rollback kicking in after about 20 minutes. Taking it easy for about 5 minutes sees the temp drop but I then find it doesn't take much to the get the temp back up again. Probably exactly what you would expect from this sort of motor. Once home, I used an infrared thermometer on the motor case which was was sitting on nice safe 50 deg C.

So far, so good.

 

[mrbill]

The main problem I am having are momentary dropouts while pedalling. I have tried dozens of PAS start / stop RPM settings and although I can get a perfect start and stop in relation my pedal input, this momentary dropout is proving difficult to resolve in this version of firmware.

Looking at the diagnostic screen, the thrOut stays steady then suddenly drops off for a split second and recovers again. This seems to be regardless of how fast or slow my cadence is. Dont know what to try next.

I see I'm not the only one who is seeing occasional split-second drop-out of power. I experienced this a few times on my most recent ride when I was using pass-thru and power throttle (no PAS), whether under cruise or manually holding throttle. I attributed it to my loose CA connector, but after re-securing my connector and seeing normal Amp and Watt readings, I did get a few more drop-outs that I tried to believe was a non-CA-related glitch. Since I neglected to observe the throttle out voltage to confirm the behavior, I did not report it then. But, your observing similar behavior has emboldened me.

I tried to duplicate the behavior on the work stand at home, and I was unable to do so. I tried putting the motor on cruise, then whacking lightly several parts of the bike with a rubber mallet, in case a loose connection was causing the problem: controller, motor, wiring, even the CA itself. Everything ran without drop-out. Even under load I saw no power drop-out.

I remain suspicious that the Prelim5 release is generating occasional split-second power drop-outs, but I'm having trouble observing it under controlled conditions. I had no power drop-outs with earlier firmware releases.

 

[teklektik]

Not having much luck with getting the RPM PAS to work the way I want it to on My Fighter.
...
On another note, the torque PAS on my other bike is just spot on with Prelim5 firmware.

Hmmm, are you saying that you get no dropouts with TorqPAS but do get them AutoPAS? If so, here's a little something you can try - sort of AutoTorqPAS

This idea came up in a conversation with Justin some months ago, but I recently realized that as a cool side-effect, it can be used to configure the CA to get a kind of AutoPAS operation that varies 'Assist Watts' with RPM by using TorqPAS with a simple PAS wheel and no torque sensor. This works fine on the bench and I wanted to test it on the road before putting it in the Guide, but my PAS install is lagging. Rather than wait, here it is - if you are suggesting that TorqPAS does not have dropouts, this might be an alternative to AutoPAS for your Fighter. So - here's the gimmick:

How to Configure 'AutoTorqPAS' - (AutoPAS with RPM-Proportional Assist)

Theory of Operation
The idea is to take advantage of the fact that the CA has a pull-up on the Trq signal line so with no torque sensor attached (Thun) it gets a signal of approximately 5v which indicates the maximum crank torque. The torque offset (voltage at which there is zero torque) defaults to around 2.5v which is correct for the Thun. So, the CA is going to figure (Trq Signal) - (Trq->TrqOffst) ~= 5v - 2.5v = 2.5v of torque signal. The configured value of Trq->TrqScale is used to convert this to Nm of torque, so for example, if Trq->TrqScale = +10 Nm/V, we get 25Nm of torque. This torque is fixed and the result of the pull-up resistor and a few configured values. The CA uses this calculated torque and the RPM to figure out 'Human Watts', then multiplies that by Trq->AsstFactr get the assist in 'motor Watts'.

• So, if we choose the proper Trq->TrqScale value and configure the CA for TorqPAS, as soon as pedaling is detected, the CA will detect the fixed torque from the pull-up, convert it to Watts, and apply it as assist - just like AutoPAS.

But - not quite. When doing Human Watts calculations in TorqPAS mode, the CA assumes a baseline cadence of 55rpm. If the rider pedals faster than 55rpm, the Assist wattage scales up! For instance, configuring for 500W @ 55rpm will give about 820W @ 90rpm.

• Configured as described below, TorqPAS mode (with no torque sensor) will work like AutoPAS to give fixed assist up to 55rpm, then above that cadence it will give additional rpm-proportional assist.

How to Do It
Set:

• PAS->PASMode = TorqPAS
• Trq->AsstFactr = 1.00 Times (you can tweak this later, if needed)
• Trq->AsstStart = +0 Watts

The tables below show the appropriate Trq->TrqScale setting to get the associated Assist Watts, kind of like PAS->PASWatts (which is not in play for TorqPAS).

• Use the left table if you have the default Trq->TrqOffst of about 2.5V and haven't done the Press-Hold thing to change that setting. So, if you want 1000W of assist, just set Trq->TrqScale = 73.6 Nm/V. Done.
  
• However, if you do a Press-Hold operation on Trq->TrqOffst, the present input voltage is stored as the torque offset and used as the zero torque baseline voltage. This will set the zero torque signal to the pull-up voltage so the calculated torque will be zero (5v - 5v = 0v torque) and none of this will work... (So - Don't Do It!)
  
  But - if you did zero the torque to the pull-up voltage (oops!), you can fix it pretty easily either by re-flashing to restore the default or with a one-time calibration with a jumper plug:
  
  • Make up a 5 pin JST that just jumps the Trq input (pin 5) to Gnd (pin 2), install this jumper plug on the CA Trq/PAS connector, and do the Press-Hold to set Trq->TrqOffst to 0.00v. Remove the jumper plug, and restore the regular PAS sensor connector. Done! If you do this calibration, use the table on the right, which assumes Trq->TrqOffst = 0.00v.

Anyhow - Kepler, you may want to try this to see if the dropout situation changes, or just because RPM scaling might be neat. Again, apologies for not testing this on the road first, but at least it's quick to configure and test... Any feedback from AutoPAS users is welcome!

EDIT - Tested - works pretty cool. Included in the Guide v3.0p5-a.

 

[Kepler]

Let me absorb all that and I will give it a test this afternoon (in Aust ) Thanks for that.

 

[Kepler]

OK, implemented AutoTorqPAS. It basically worked but still had the same dropout problem .

Got me thinking that perhaps it was a problem with my PAS sensor or wiring rather then firmware however I didn't have dropouts with the previous version of firmware. So to rule out hardware,I flashed back in Prelim3 firmware and did a basic RPM PAS config. The RPM PAS worked perfectly without any dropout issues at all. Next I tried AutoTorquePAS with prelim3 firmware (actually I think the file is marked B23 but it is definitely the second latest version with RCLiPo). This worked really well with no dropouts and operated just like AutoPAS on the latest version. Still needs some fine tuning but is looking good at the moment.

Interestingly, with the latest firmware, I couldn't get speedPAS to work at all. I could see the cadence bars going up and down but the motor would never activate. At the time, I didn't think too much about it as I figured i had missed a setting and was concentrating on AutoPAS anyway which did work.

Anyway, I have run out of options with Prelim5 and magnetic ring PAS. for now I will stick with B23 on the bike using a magnetic ring PAS and Prelim5 on my other bike with Torque PAS.