Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

[sulanino]

Strange. Booted up the bike today, found that I had left the controllers connected over night (no main contactor, no CA). The CA read -40Ah (despite no voltage change of the 100% SOC battery), indicating flow from the controllers to the CA. The throttle input works, but the throttle output is fixed at the minimum mapped output of .93V. I double checked controllers, they aren't faulting. Looks like something is fried or there is a bug. Thoughts? (I also double checked fault volt setting and throttle in.. all good)...

I also have some troubles with the CA.
Wheel just back from getting new spokes. Just a few test runs to make sure everything is OK. Less than 2 km. (approx. 1,2 mi.) all in all.
Parked in my driveway. Disconnected power (by turning key on battery). Wanted to adjust PID parameters. Went indoor to read in the User Guide. Went outside 10 minutes later. Connected power. Activated throttle before doing anything else. Wheel did not turn.

Throttle IN is OK (0,92 - 4,19 VDC) but throttle OUT stays at whatever minimum is set. For the moment minimum throttle OUT is 1,25 VDC.
I believe that the MagicPie 3 internal controller needs throttle input from 1,25 to 3,25 VDC.

-Lasse

 

[teklektik]

...Just a few test runs to make sure everything is OK. Less than 2 km. (approx. 1,2 mi.) all in all.
Parked in my driveway. Disconnected power (by turning key on battery). Wanted to adjust PID parameters. Went indoor to read in the User Guide. Went outside 10 minutes later. Connected power. Activated throttle before doing anything else. Wheel did not turn.

It sounds as if you are using the unit in normal (non-legacy) mode. Since the bike was running (presumably with the CA connected), it looks like the V3-style throttle connection is probably okay.

1. What version of firmware are you using?
2. Did you follow the Guide carefully or skip over parts?

   • Throttle IN is OK (0,92 - 4,19 VDC) but throttle OUT stays at whatever minimum is set. For the moment minimum throttle OUT is 1,25 VDC.
     I believe that the MagicPie 3 internal controller needs throttle input from 1,25 to 3,25 VDC.

     From this it sounds like you are using some preset values instead of using the setup procedure in the Guide. Although the values could be good, this opens up questions about the overall setup, so if you did some speed reading in there, please go back and follow all the steps. I know this may seem like a drudge, but it gets the configuration to a known state and saves lots of questions...
     
     In particular - the symptom you have sounds like a bad ThrI->FaultVolt configuration which would be indicated by a flashing throttle bar graph on the Main screen.
3. Were you able to complete the basic throttle/ramping setup and was it successful?
4. Is your throttle still in PassThru mode?
5. Are all Advanced features (autocruise, ebrakes, AuxIn, Temp Sensing, PAS) disabled?
6. What are the Limit flags?
7. Is anything blinking on the Diagnostic or Main screens?

 

[sulanino]

...Just a few test runs to make sure everything is OK. Less than 2 km. (approx. 1,2 mi.) all in all.
Parked in my driveway. Disconnected power (by turning key on battery). Wanted to adjust PID parameters. Went indoor to read in the User Guide. Went outside 10 minutes later. Connected power. Activated throttle before doing anything else. Wheel did not turn.

It sounds as if you are using the unit in normal (non-legacy) mode. Since the bike was running (presumably with the CA connected), it looks like the V3-style throttle connection is probably okay.

1. What version of firmware are you using?
2. Did you follow the Guide carefully or skip over parts?

   • Throttle IN is OK (0,92 - 4,19 VDC) but throttle OUT stays at whatever minimum is set. For the moment minimum throttle OUT is 1,25 VDC.
     I believe that the MagicPie 3 internal controller needs throttle input from 1,25 to 3,25 VDC.

     From this it sounds like you are using some preset values instead of using the setup procedure in the Guide. Although the values could be good, this opens up questions about the overall setup, so if you did some speed reading in there, please go back and follow all the steps.

The bike will presumably not run without the CA powered and connected since the CA controls the speed.

1: Prelim 5.

2: Initially i did follow the guide. And it worked until i parked in my driveway. Then, with nothing changed, it just did not work anymore.

3: Yes.

4: No, it is in SPEED

5: AUTOCRUISE - EBRAKES/NO AUXIN -TEMP SENSING - PAS/YES

6: I still need to figure that out. My native language is not English so i still haven't figured everything in the guide out yet. But i can inform you that Ampere, volt and speed has been limited.

7: No.


I still need to understand: If it worked ten minutes earlier, why should it suddenly not work with exactly the same parameters/settings?

 

[teklektik]

In particular - the symptom you have sounds like a bad ThrI->FaultVolt configuration which would be indicated by a flashing throttle bar graph on the Main screen.

First - this was a bad analysis since this symptom would only show up at WOT, not all the time... oops!

1: Prelim 5.
2: Initially i did follow the guide. And it worked until i parked in my driveway. Then, with nothing changed, it just did not work anymore.
3: Yes.
4: No, it is in SPEED
5: AUTOCRUISE - EBRAKES/NO AUXIN -TEMP SENSING - PAS/YES
6: I still need to figure that out. My native language is not English so i still haven't figured everything in the guide out yet. But i can inform you that Ampere, volt and speed has been limited.
7: No.

Okay this is helpful.
1. Can you flash this up to Prelim 6? That would simplify things, since I'm not sure how many members still have beta 5 installed for reference.
2.+3.+4.+5.+7. So - just to be clear, it worked okay in the basic configuration, you added some advanced features, then it worked for a bit then not at all. Correct?
6. The limit flags are the the string of upper and lower case letters on the lower left of the Diagnostic screen (one screen left of Main).

• • 

You say 'volts' have been limited - do you mean power or the battery LVC (Batt->VltCutoff)? Since nothing is Flashing on the Main Display it sounds like your LVC is okay ('V' not flashing) - this would also give you a 'V' Limit Flag on the Diagnostics screen.

At this point you have a number of advanced features in play. I would recommend disabling them all and verifying that the bike runs in basic PassThru mode to establish that the core CA functions are operating properly. Then add and debug each new feature one at a time.

1. I would start by adding Temp limiting - this is easy to configure and if you simply leave the default temp parameters in place, it shouldn't cause issues. It has a dedicated 'T' Limit Flag.
2. AuxIn can easily limit the motor to zero power - how are you using it (3-pos switch, PAS limiting. etc) and how were all the parameters configured? You can try enabling this after the Temp limiting - inspect the AuxPot Section Preview screen in Setup and manipulate your AuxIn control to verify that the "V" and "%" fields vary appropriately with your manual control.
3. What PAS configuration were you trying to use? Please list the sensor setup and the configuration parameters. This mode works by using the Power limiting and the 'W' limit flag is not always useful.

I still need to understand: If it worked ten minutes earlier, why should it suddenly not work with exactly the same parameters/settings?

It's probably more useful at this stage to enable the features one at a time until the troublesome setup is located - then the weird behavior may become clear.

 

[sulanino]

In particular - the symptom you have sounds like a bad ThrI->FaultVolt configuration which would be indicated by a flashing throttle bar graph on the Main screen.

First - this was a bad analysis since this symptom would only show up at WOT, not all the time... oops!

Thank You.

I will work on it tomorrow. Its 8 PM and i have other things that needs my attention.
Put my kid to bed, dishes, laundry...
Hmmmm... Why did i get married?

Good evening teklektik and others watching!

 

[hillzofvalp]

EDIT: this is not needed. Total Ah never steps backwards. Silly me!

Feature request: negative Ah Count disable option for speeds = 0.

I want to be able to keep track of charging on CA. I think the only practical way around the CA subtracting Ah off of the total Ah (ever for the pack) would be to have it only count the negative amps if the vehicle is moving above 0mph/kph. This could be an option in settings. Would be nice. The I wouldn't lose the Total Ah accuracy

 

[ColinB]

Hi,
I'm having trouble getting my auto cruise to work. I've set it to 2 seconds, and the maximum .25v (just for testing for now) but the cruise won't hold. I do see the throttle graph get greyed out as if it is working, but when I release the throttle it goes to zero throttle.

Is there any indication on the display for when I should release the throttle? I've held it for well over the 2 seconds, but no luck. Any suggestions?

Thank you,
Colin

 

[mrbill]

Hi,
I'm having trouble getting my auto cruise to work. I've set it to 2 seconds, and the maximum .25v (just for testing for now) but the cruise won't hold. I do see the throttle graph get greyed out as if it is working, but when I release the throttle it goes to zero throttle.

Is there any indication on the display for when I should release the throttle? I've held it for well over the 2 seconds, but no luck. Any suggestions?

Thank you,
Colin

Make sure you are on the latest firmware release (Prelim6). Earlier releases had trouble getting the cruise control to lock.

The throttle indicator will flash when it has locked. As long as you release the throttle and do not increasee it, it should lock. But make sure you are on the latest firmware release.

 

[ColinB]

Hi,
I'm having trouble getting my auto cruise to work. I've set it to 2 seconds, and the maximum .25v (just for testing for now) but the cruise won't hold. I do see the throttle graph get greyed out as if it is working, but when I release the throttle it goes to zero throttle.

Is there any indication on the display for when I should release the throttle? I've held it for well over the 2 seconds, but no luck. Any suggestions?

Thank you,
Colin

Make sure you are on the latest firmware release (Prelim6). Earlier releases had trouble getting the cruise control to lock.

The throttle indicator will flash when it has locked. As long as you release the throttle and do not increasee it, it should lock. But make sure you are on the latest firmware release.

Thanks, I'll double check that when I get home.

One other question - Why would you limit the power output via amps vs watts? I'm limiting by watts since my batteries suggested a maximum continuous wattage and I was too lazy to do the math.

Colin

 

[Diamondback]

limiting by watts will have a constant power regardless of battery voltage.
limiting by amps, will reduce the power as the voltage drops.

Jason

 

[ls7corvete]

Maybe you guys can help me out.

I am using a MAC from Cell_man and a CA-DPS which was working fine together.

I desoldered the speedo sensor and connected the yellow wire to the 'speed' spot on the pad.

The speed seems to be correct with poles set to 80 (16 poles, 5x geared reduction). BUT the bike is cutting out at regular intervals when riding (a couple times per second). This happens with throttle in pass-thru as well.

Any ideas? should I just give up on using the halls for speed sensing?

 

[ls7corvete]

Maybe you guys can help me out.

I am using a MAC from Cell_man and a CA-DPS which was working fine together.

I desoldered the speedo sensor and connected the yellow wire to the 'speed' spot on the pad.

The speed seems to be correct with poles set to 80 (16 poles, 5x geared reduction). BUT the bike is cutting out at regular intervals when riding (a couple times per second). This happens with throttle in pass-thru as well.

Any ideas? should I just give up on using the halls for speed sensing?

Hhhmm, I set all the values in the speed limit section to 0, this worked fine, no cutting out. Went for a ride and charged up overnight. I reset the trip this am and went to ride...nothing. The throttle output just stays at 1v. I am stumpted.

 

[teklektik]

Hhhmm, I set all the values in the speed limit section to 0, this worked fine, no cutting out. Went for a ride and charged up overnight. I reset the trip this am and went to ride...nothing. The throttle output just stays at 1v. I am stumpted.

The SLim Setup Gain parameters configure a PID controller. Setting all these parameters to zero will have the effect you describe. Section 5.2 Speed Limiting (Speed Throttle) of the Guide describes the proper means to disable speed limiting. In brief:

• 2. If Speed Throttle and maximum speed limit enforcement are not required, disable the speed control logic:
  set SLim->MaxSpeed to the maximum value, IntSGain = 1, PSGain = 0, DSGain = 0.

I'm not sure why the effect was delayed until a power cycle unless there is a 'temp working value' in place in the CA that didn't get fully cleared when you initially made the change. However, using the values above should disable speed limiting but otherwise leave the CA working normally.

This doesn't explain the cutout issues when the speed limiting features are enabled, but:

In general, folks don't use the hall sensor input with gear motors because the freewheel clutch in the motor disengages regularly when riding as power is removed (rolling downhill, etc). This causes the CA to show zero speed and lose track of distance traveled. Certain trip statistics will be upset by this. Unless you have a strong reason for this unusual configuration, I would recommend restoring the wheel pickup to get true speed/distance information.

 

[ls7corvete]

Hhhmm, I set all the values in the speed limit section to 0, this worked fine, no cutting out. Went for a ride and charged up overnight. I reset the trip this am and went to ride...nothing. The throttle output just stays at 1v. I am stumpted.

The SLim Setup Gain parameters configure a PID controller. Setting all these parameters to zero will have the effect you describe. Section 5.2 Speed Limiting (Speed Throttle) of the Guide describes the proper means to disable speed limiting. In brief:

• 2. If Speed Throttle and maximum speed limit enforcement are not required, disable the speed control logic:
  set SLim->MaxSpeed to the maximum value, IntSGain = 1, PSGain = 0, DSGain = 0.

I'm not sure why the effect was delayed until a power cycle unless there is a 'temp working value' in place in the CA that didn't get fully cleared when you initially made the change. However, using the values above should disable speed limiting but otherwise leave the CA working normally.

This doesn't explain the cutout issues when the speed limiting features are enabled, but:

In general, folks don't use the hall sensor input with gear motors because the freewheel clutch in the motor disengages regularly when riding as power is removed (rolling downhill, etc). This causes the CA to show zero speed and lose track of distance traveled. Certain trip statistics will be upset by this. Unless you have a strong reason for this unusual configuration, I would recommend restoring the wheel pickup to get true speed/distance information.

Thanks that helps. The ThO still climbs slowly after a power cycle, very slowly with IntSGain=1, though the controller responds normally after a few seconds of throttle. IntSGain is now set to 999.

 

[teklektik]

The ThO still climbs slowly after a power cycle, very slowly with IntSGain=1, though the controller responds normally after a few seconds of throttle. IntSGain is now set to 999.

Thanks for posting back with the info - I'll take a look at improving the Guide recommendation for IntSGain in this situation and bounce it off Justin for the next Guide release. Good sleuthing!

Interestingly, the lingering effect of the IntSGain setting ("controller responds normally after a few seconds of throttle") seems to correspond to the problem not appearing until after your power cycle.

Hmmm, I seem to remember a post relating a similar 'throttle slow to come alive' issue on power-up - the low IntSGain recommendation may have been the cause.
EDIT - Actually, the post was from a month ago above on this page... oops.

 

[xenodius]

So I've searched this thread for shutdown and shutoff-- doesn't look like anyone else is having this issue. I have a CAv3 with 1.0mOhm dongle hooked up to my 24s 20ah Cellman pack. I'm trying to run a discharge test, low rate (100W) but the CA keeps resetting randomly. Settings are preserved but trip Ah/wh etc are not.

It's not an issue with voltage cutoff settings... it happens regardless of battery voltage. It's not a loose connection. I'm at a loss. Any thoughts, things to check? =)

 

[teklektik]

Settings are preserved but trip Ah/wh etc are not.

This shouldn't be happening - even with a low Pref->Vshutdown the statistics should be saved...

Are you running 3.0prelim6?
You say it is resetting - how does this appear - does it go dark and then go through the splash screen when it comes back up?
Are you using the Vext connection?
How is this wired up - do you have a controller or is this a battery+load bench test?

 

[xenodius]

This shouldn't be happening - even with a low Pref->Vshutdown the statistics should be saved...

Are you running 3.0prelim6?
You say it is resetting - how does this appear - does it go dark and then go through the splash screen when it comes back up?
Are you using the Vext connection?
How is this wired up - do you have a controller or is this a battery+load bench test?

3.0 Prelim 5, I don't have a TTL cable to flash to six... it sounds like this is something I should do.

The backlight remains on, it just instantaneously switches to the flash screen then opens the default display screen (with battery icon) instead of last displayed screen.

Vext? I'm not sure. I'm using a GrinTech 1mOhm molded shunt with 6-pin direct-plug JST-SM connector, connected to a bench load of roughly 1 amp.

 

[teklektik]

3.0 Prelim 5, I don't have a TTL cable to flash to six... it sounds like this is something I should do.

The backlight remains on, it just instantaneously switches to the flash screen then opens the default display screen (with battery icon) instead of last displayed screen.

Yep - It sounds like you need to contact Grin Tech about this reset issue, but the first thing they will ask you to do is re-flash to ensure the firmware is valid. There have been a few incidents of wonky firmware on delivery that were immediately remedied with a new flash, so at this point you might as well do it yourself as a 'next step'. In any case - the present firmware is only beta and you will need a cable to upgrade to the production 3.0 and subsequent releases.

Vext? I'm not sure.

Okay - If you don't know - you're not... This is the special hookup to monitor one voltage while running the V3 from another voltage - usually used for high voltage batteries or when a second supply is needed to provide extra power to run Thun, etc.

 

[xenodius]

Okay, sounds good. I'll order a TTL cable and flash it before I bother Justin. I'm also tempted to get a powerpole crimper... but maybe bullets? Hmm, now is the time to choose!

Ahh. I wondered if it was for that. I'm new to the CA but not to electronics in general. I'm glad that it works on the voltage range it does... 79.6v is high enough for me. I'll use a converter for my other accessories.

 

[pendragon8000]

Hi guys, just want to show what happened with my monster build. I had the CA v3 ramp set up all wrong.
I tried to set up power rsmpi g first then throttle ramping and it was to steep so with 6kw WOT take offs the axle snapped.

If I had it set up as I was trying to when it broke it would have been fine. The power was glitching the controller and making it stall and restart with full thrattlo that after a few instances ripped the axle off.
Ca v3 with properly adjusted throttle and power ramp is the perfect thing for high power to weight builds.
Lesson learned.

 

[waynebergman]

ON a road trip right now and left the e-bikes bikes out side of the camper overnight and the RV campsite sprinkler system gave my bikes a good bath. Good thing I unpluged the charger and put it away before the overnight. One bike is fine but the other just quickly flashes the dislplay up on the VER 3CA and then goes blank. Not sure if it just needs to dry out in the sunshine or of there is a revert to factory settings I may have to do or something. Who knows maybe it got wrecked. Any tips appreciated and thanks.......wayne

 

[ColinB]

Oh no! The only thing I can think of is to dry it out. Maybe put the CA in a bag with rice? The rice will help pull out any moisture. Might be tough to seal around the wires, but may be worth a shot.
Colin

 

[ColinB]

Hi,
I've updated to the latest firmware, but the auto cruise still does not work. It will catch, but comes out of cruise mode after 3-4 seconds. Any suggestions on where to look?

Also, I'm using the throttle in the Power mode (so throttle is percentage of max power.) I've been tuning it with the gain settings, but can't get it perfectly smooth. How smooth should I expect it to get? It is roughest when the motor isn't having to work hard to maintain speed, say at half throttle on level ground. (Not super rough, but can still hear and feel it pulsing.) Adding throttle to accelerate is smooth. Currently I have the gain set at 25. I've had it down to 15, but it just feels "weird." I can't really describe it. Anyway, I could use some of your suggestions on this too. Thank you!

PS. I should say that I really like the "power" throttle mode. It is much easier to hold a partial throttle setting. I should switch back to normal just to compare.

Colin

 

[waynebergman]

Collin thanks for the rice tips. Things came back to life at the very end of the day yesterday, I am guessing the heat of the day did the trick. I am happy about that.
Regarding your surging I have a pretty good set of numbers that are working for me but it may be of no use to you if you are using a different motor and controller etc. I am using the eb3 12 fet from cellman with the mac 10t. I am on a road trip right now with my bikes but in my tool kit I have all the settings I used at the time of setting things up if it would be of any interest to you. I could PM you a photo of all the settings I have entered for my bike if you like. I am running a 50v 14.3 lith mang battery from cellman with the other components I have mentioned. On my set up the cruise control has worked real well. I had it set for the max time, I think it was 8 seconds of constant speed to have it kick in auto matically and it worked well for me. Funny yours kicks out on its own like it is the only thing I could think of is if something is bumping the throttle to kick it off. I normally let go of my twist grip as soon as the cruise kicks in and make sure not to go near the twist grip until I want to shut it down.


wayne