Cyclone or GNG mid drive kit?

[bunya]

Hi, I know it might be a bit late now but I would steer clear of the 190mm BB and get the 1800-3000W with the 148mm BB. I think if you plan on using it on a few jumps it will eventually bend and the chain will drop. The kit will never be perfectly true to begin with so it wouldn't have to bend much to be start dropping the chain under load. My kit is about 1.5mm out of true even with a WI ENO and support bearing and prior to installing the support bearing it would occasionally drop, not to mention flexing under load which will be a function of current/torque something the larger kit will use/generate more that the smaller kit.
I think the 1800W kit represents the best value on the market in terms of bang for buck, without being as noisy as the steel geared kit that I have. The reduction is approximately 6:1 which means it will spin at a lower RPM than the steel kit too so definitely less noise.
Good luck either way, maybe contacting someone from this thread might help.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&p=1054299&hilit=+cyclone+3000W#p1054299

 

[le15otl]

Thanks bunya, i have just ordered a second hand cyclone kit with 190mm BB so maybe it was a bit too late , but I probably would have bought it anyway as it was a lot less expensive. If it bends badly I will have to upgrade, which also isn't a problem as I can use the wider motor on something else.
Yep I have read through that thread there is some good information. Do you have the cyclone 3kw kit then?

 

[bunya]

I have the standard cyclone/headline motor with external controller '1680W kit', it uses the 148mm ISIS bb. For the most part I've been having a great time with it, next I'll try a sine wave controller to reduce the noise.

 

[gman1971]

I don't know how the cyclone would be but I just purchased a Gen2 GNG mid drive two weeks ago and the planetary gears are going after 200 miles, fairly hilly terrain, ran with the 22amp stock power. Not saying GNG is bad, just stating the fact that I had bad luck with them.

While my GNG gen2 middrive still works, I have a bad feeling I am SOL with it as nobody really supports it or sells parts for it. I would throw into the mix the Bafang option; and depending on how this GNG issue is resolved, the new BBSHD might end up bieng my next kit, or if not then I'll go the 1000w hub motor route... less stuff that can break.

So think about support after the purchase, and while so far GNG has been answering my mails, I've heard some bad stories here...

G.

 

[le15otl]

Hopefully they'll offer a partial refund or something, after 200 miles is not great. Surely you can buy the gears somewhere else?
I have already bought a cyclone kit now just working out the wiring, can't seem to find the hall power wires with 5v

If anyone has a diagram of the cyclones controllers I would appreciate it!

 

[gman1971]

Hopefully they'll offer a partial refund or something, after 200 miles is not great. Surely you can buy the gears somewhere else?
I have already bought a cyclone kit now just working out the wiring, can't seem to find the hall power wires with 5v

If anyone has a diagram of the cyclones controllers I would appreciate it!

Thanks. Have you thought about using a sensorless controller?

G.

 

[le15otl]

I could use a sensorless controller but with such a big motor it seems wasteful not to make the most of its torque potential

 

[le15otl]

Just an update on this in case anyone is interested, I bought and installed a cyclone 1920-3000w kit with 190mm BB and am running it at 48v. The bottom bracket is quite wide but I am used to it now and it doesn't affect anything really.
(I would have got the 1800-3000 with a smaller BB but this used one came up cheaper)

First the chain kept coming off but that's now sorted and it performs amazingly. As you said it will smash hills and it really does, there's nothing it won't climb even in 3rd gear. Not too noisy and it seems to be quite efficient as I'm getting 25 miles on 13ah of my 20ah pack at quite high speed. I haven't tested it beyond 50k/30mph as the smaller gears just slip. Probably need a new cassette and maybe chain?

So I would recommend this kit for anyone wanting a lot of power, it was hard not to wheelie on startup at first and if you want to be able to keep up with a bus up a nearly 10% hill, you can This is only on 48v as well the motor can take much more power.

I am happy with my choice it's a great motor, but as jonny said I would probably also be happy with the GNG 1kw or another slightly smaller sized cyclone. Oh and there seems to be no problem with the mounting brackets flexing so far.

 

[gman1971]

Very nice! Congrats. Mine is now half cyclone, my BB/crankset is the three chainring from a cyclone. Amazing quality compared to the cheapie GNG BB/Crankset...

3000 watts is a lot of power!! Holy smokes man, how fast does it go? Mine on the stock GNG 22amp controller does around 30-32mph on flats... and about 37 downhill... with 3kW it should be getting close to 50 mph!!

I would consider Cyclone one step up from GNG... if their crankset/bb is any indication of their overall quality, then their components are much better quality than GNG.

Pics?

G.

 

[le15otl]

Thanks G yeah I would guess about 50mph maybe even more at higher voltage. Smaller gears just slip so can't test at the moment (not sure if i'll have the balls to anyway!!)

Crankset definitely feels solid, and the motor too. Chain tensioner is a bit flimsy but it works

Here are some pics;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/135992244@N05/?
Haven't worked out how to make the wiring look neat... so it's tape all over

 

[gman1971]

Thanks G yeah I would guess about 50mph maybe even more at higher voltage. Smaller gears just slip so can't test at the moment (not sure if i'll have the balls to anyway!!)

Crankset definitely feels solid, and the motor too. Chain tensioner is a bit flimsy but it works

Here are some pics;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/135992244@N05/?
Haven't worked out how to make the wiring look neat... so it's tape all over

Nice!, looks good (and dirty, offroading lately? ) 50mph is wicked fast! holy smokes! I am already worried bad stuff is going to happen at 32, can't believe it going much faster than it is now!!

Seems that your crank looks different than mine, perhaps because I went with the 3 chainring one...?

I cut most of the cables to length and routed them along with brake lines and other standard bike stuff, so it looks fairly tidy now. I also used heatshrink tubing everywhere... so that helped quite a bit. Just some thoughts to get it all cleaned up.

Thumbs up!

G.

 

[le15otl]

Tried some offroading it was good fun but hard not to wheelie when you accelerate up a steep hill I think if I do a speed test full face helmet and stuff might be sensible, and I should tighten all the loose spokes too!!

The crank is the 3 chainring version just with one chainring removed (seller forgot to send it) and i guess it looks different because that plastic chain guard is actually from something else, it's just glued on.

That is a good idea, I will zip tie the wires to the brake cables.

 

[gman1971]

Tried some offroading it was good fun but hard not to wheelie when you accelerate up a steep hill I think if I do a speed test full face helmet and stuff might be sensible, and I should tighten all the loose spokes too!!

The crank is the 3 chainring version just with one chainring removed (seller forgot to send it) and i guess it looks different because that plastic chain guard is actually from something else, it's just glued on.

That is a good idea, I will zip tie the wires to the brake cables.

Hmm, mine came with a chainguard, which is super nice so I don't get my pants all dirty from the chain grease.... how come they forgot to add the other chainring?? man, this ebike world is full of hidden problems... hahaha

Mine will only wheelie in 1st gear and 32T chainring, well, is more of a hop than a wheelie but it does something... I've done some mild offroad with it and it was a problem with traction more than anything else... but with 3000 watts I imagine it is hardcore!! Videos?

G.

 

[le15otl]

They posted it from another country and left the other chainring at home, no big deal as I have the 32T which is fine for now.

Traction was definitely the issue, especially now where it's muddy everywhere. It will skid way before it loses any power haha.

I will film some video and upload to youtube at some point, and probably make a build thread.

Any vids of yours?

 

[Pip]

Howdy, new to the sphere! Purchased the cyclone 3000w from Luna. Can't get it powered up. There is a red wire coming off the hall wires. Does that red wire also get connected with the battery and controller positive wire?

 

[tomjasz]

Does this help?

 

[le15otl]

The red hall wire is the 5v to the motor sensors. But there is another red wire (not hall) which goes from the throttle to the main positive on the battery.
I have a labelled diagram for the cyclone controller if you need it still

 

[Overclocker]

Just an update on this in case anyone is interested, I bought and installed a cyclone 1920-3000w kit with 190mm BB and am running it at 48v. The bottom bracket is quite wide but I am used to it now and it doesn't affect anything really.
(I would have got the 1800-3000 with a smaller BB but this used one came up cheaper)

First the chain kept coming off but that's now sorted and it performs amazingly. As you said it will smash hills and it really does, there's nothing it won't climb even in 3rd gear. Not too noisy and it seems to be quite efficient as I'm getting 25 miles on 13ah of my 20ah pack at quite high speed. I haven't tested it beyond 50k/30mph as the smaller gears just slip. Probably need a new cassette and maybe chain?

So I would recommend this kit for anyone wanting a lot of power, it was hard not to wheelie on startup at first and if you want to be able to keep up with a bus up a nearly 10% hill, you can This is only on 48v as well the motor can take much more power.

I am happy with my choice it's a great motor, but as jonny said I would probably also be happy with the GNG 1kw or another slightly smaller sized cyclone. Oh and there seems to be no problem with the mounting brackets flexing so far.

how's the pedal cadence at 48v? can you keep up w/ your legs when at full throttle?

 

[le15otl]

Usually it's too fast to maintain pedaling. But if it's in high gear up and/or going a hill and on slower mode (has a 3 speed switch) then I can pedal.
I barely pedal it since it's kinda hard on the wrist to hold the throttle half on

 

[shadetree]

I'm interested in a mid drive conversion for a 29" AM hardtail. I'd like to keep it light and pedally. I don't want this to be an e-dirtbike. I'd like it to help my climb up mountains faster/easier.

The Bafang seems like a pretty obvious choice, but I am put off by the square taper cranks and bb, and wide q-factor. Square taper will not hold up to the riding I want to do with the bike.

The Cyclone and GNG kits are very appealing, in that you can run isis cranks and bb's. There are quite a few strong/light trials cranks and bb's out. I also like how you can alter the motors gearing in relation to the cranks. I would likely want a white industries freewheel for the cranks... and an alloy freewheel/ 104mm chainring spider adapter. Does anyone make such a thing? I have seen one for the bafang... is their 5 bolt pattern the same as the cranks freewheels?

I have noticed that these kits all come with 150mm length bb spindles, crazy long! Super wide Q factor is not that good for pedalling, and long spindle is inherently weaker and heavier than shorter. I understand it must be wider to make room for freewheel on crank/bb shell interference. And for clearance for the motor between the crank arms. Which are two separate clearance issues.
1. is there 10-11 mm+ clearance between the crank freewheel and the BB shell when installed? I'd like to run narrower 128mm trials bb, if possible.

2. Physically, how wide are these motors? I would be looking at 48v battery, would like to keep as light as possible, while still helping with climbs.
http://www.gngebike.com/60v650w-brushless
vs cyclone. The two motors I'm considering
480-960W Double chainwheel kit 22A controller vs. the 3000w one, run at 48v.

 

[le15otl]

The 3000w you won't take a 128mm bb, but maybe the smaller cyclone could?
I know a long shaft isn't ideal but it doesn't make too much difference to be honest. Mine is 190mm and it doesn't affect my pedaling power just took a bit of getting used to ( I think 150mm won't be a problem at all) but the motor itself is pretty bulky if you're trying to keep it light. So I would say maybe the lighter cyclone or bafang is better for a pedaler build. ( the GNG setup also appears quite big
since it's an XC type bike how come you're so against a tapered BB ?

 

[gman1971]

Dumped the GNG turd and got me a Cyclone 3000w kit and I clocked 400 miles today. Love it, zero problems, much nicer than the GNG... powerful as heck on 12S LiPo...

Avoid the new GNG crap at all costs, whey they claim Gen2, is more like they took all the good things of the Gen1 and replaced with cheaper and crappier components...

G.

 

[Leebolectric]

400 miles??? damnnnnnnn!

 

[Leebolectric]

Question...
What is the best way to remove the extra wiring?
Electrical newb here...assuming that if I just clip them, they may short against each other.
I want to get this mess as tidy as possible.

 

[gman1971]

400 miles??? damnnnnnnn!

Miles rack up real fast when you are doing daily commute, rides to keep in shape, weekend family adventures and ride everywhere you would drive your car to...

G.