Direct-drive 3220 setup with a 3-Speed Hub...
- Thread starter GGoodrum
- Start date
liveforphysics
100 TW
Miles said:liveforphysics said:
That's right Miles
And if you tolerate such crude things as hand filed splines, I will make and set you a matching set gratis, as your mind helped to create such an idea in mine.
liveforphysics
100 TW
But does the dual-drive hub use a 9spd splined cassette receiver length? For some reason I am under the impression it uses a shortened spline made to hold a 4-5 sprocket gang. Am I mistaken?
liveforphysics
100 TW
Perfect That's great to hear. You would like a set I assume? Dispite the crude method of manufacture?
That's great to hear. You would like a set I assume? Dispite the crude method of manufacture?
liveforphysics
100 TW
Then you shall have one appear in the mail my friend
I will order them, and begin fooling around with files and nonsense until I've either made a mess, or have some functional spline mounting freewheels
I will order them, and begin fooling around with files and nonsense until I've either made a mess, or have some functional spline mounting freewheels
Grinhill
10 kW
I'll be watching with interest, Luke, as I'm sure will many others.
Lots of pics would be great.
Separate thread would be great, as I'm sure it will become one of those oft-referred-to threads.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Parts are all ordered.
I hope you don't mind red Miles. No blue available in 16t at the place I ordered from.
I hope you don't mind red Miles. No blue available in 16t at the place I ordered from.
GGoodrum
1 MW
etard said:
The large sprocket is a #35 94T aluminum variant I got from Go Kart Galaxy. It is the last item on this page. It already comes with a bore that will fit over the end of the hub, and it has four holes that match up with my adapter and the 16t 3-splined cog. Since it is aluminum it is already pretty light, but I suppose it could be lightened up a bit more with some holes.
etard said:On another note, I thought your adapter was going to slip onto the three prong mount on the hub directly and be more stout than the stock 16 tooth cog, but now I see. I just question the power handling capabilties of those small teeth to handle much power. But if you are running a 3220 through it in this manner with no slipping or wear I suppose I will order up an adapter this week. ]/quote]
The 16T Nexus cog is made from hardened steel, so it is already quite stout. Matching it with a lightweight, but heavy-duty go kart racing sprocket seems to work quite well. The drive sprocket on the motor is 11t, not 7t. Even there I think a 12t would be better/quieter. I had a 7t on the original Cyclone setup and it was noisier than hell. Frankly, this isn't all that much quieter. Great power, for sure, but this setup is far from stealthy.
etard said:
I don't know why Metrolink would give you any problems. Aren't there spots for bikes in every car? In any case, if you don't try this at peak times, the cars are usually empty mostly, so I think you'd not have a problem, as long as you can secure the bike from moving around.
-- Gary
GGoodrum
1 MW
liveforphysics said:
These are hardened steel and you are going to hand-file them? Sounds like a lot of work.
If it works, it will definitely beat having to pay for a quantity of 100 to get Doug White to do it.
jmygann
100 kW
- Joined
- May 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,069
Is this what we are after ??
Randy writes ...
A splined id of the CSK clutch with a gokart sprocket hub clamped to the id of it is the best way to get a precision fit with 0 run out or backlash for the motor drive. A 3 or 5 cog freewheel cassette designed to thread onto a threaded hub, the hardened id threads can be cut by Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) or broached for the bicycle pedal drive. .......................
Even if you get a oversize CSK 35 it is fairly easy to make a shim out of thin wall stainless tubing to press fit the clutch and shim onto the freehub then clamp the gokart sprocket hub onto the od of the CSK clutch. Then you have a selection of $13. composite #219 sprockets that range from 72 teeth to 92 teeth or #35 sprockets that go up to 114 teeth. One CSK clutch will last a lifetime. ..................
If you like the CSK clutch mounting system, it can also be done on any Shimino freehub using a modified 5 cog cassette freewheel for your pedal speeds or just mount the motor drive on the left side of the wheel or use the front wheel.
Randy writes ...
A splined id of the CSK clutch with a gokart sprocket hub clamped to the id of it is the best way to get a precision fit with 0 run out or backlash for the motor drive. A 3 or 5 cog freewheel cassette designed to thread onto a threaded hub, the hardened id threads can be cut by Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) or broached for the bicycle pedal drive. .......................
Even if you get a oversize CSK 35 it is fairly easy to make a shim out of thin wall stainless tubing to press fit the clutch and shim onto the freehub then clamp the gokart sprocket hub onto the od of the CSK clutch. Then you have a selection of $13. composite #219 sprockets that range from 72 teeth to 92 teeth or #35 sprockets that go up to 114 teeth. One CSK clutch will last a lifetime. ..................
If you like the CSK clutch mounting system, it can also be done on any Shimino freehub using a modified 5 cog cassette freewheel for your pedal speeds or just mount the motor drive on the left side of the wheel or use the front wheel.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
I agree that hand filing hardened steel isn't going to be easy. Its not going to beat paying for a 100 from Doug White if it takes a hundred hours of hand filing.
I think Luke can come up with a better solution.
It might be worth contacting dgcustommachining and asking for a quote, mentioning the fact that there might be an ongoing demand (offering to have Miles supply the CAD file might help) :
Maybe a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade?
Maybe a file mounted on a Sawzall or a jig saw?
Maybe a Sawzall with a Miter Box (commercial or DIY) or modified Miter Box:
And/or a homemade jig for a regular Sawzall blade that makes it easier to make square cuts with round stock, something similar to the Seatek Mighty Miter
Or similar too the Milwaukee Sawzall Pipe Clamp System.
These won't work as is because they rotate the blade through the cut rather than keeping the blade perpendicular to the work.
Excellent concept IF the SRAM Dual Drive is strong enough for your system.liveforphysics said:
GGoodrum said:These are hardened steel and you are going to hand-file them? Sounds like a lot of work.
If it works, it will definitely beat having to pay for a quantity of 100 to get Doug White to do it.
I agree that hand filing hardened steel isn't going to be easy. Its not going to beat paying for a 100 from Doug White if it takes a hundred hours of hand filing.
I think Luke can come up with a better solution.
It might be worth contacting dgcustommachining and asking for a quote, mentioning the fact that there might be an ongoing demand (offering to have Miles supply the CAD file might help) :
Maybe a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade?
Maybe a file mounted on a Sawzall or a jig saw?
Maybe a Sawzall with a Miter Box (commercial or DIY) or modified Miter Box:
And/or a homemade jig for a regular Sawzall blade that makes it easier to make square cuts with round stock, something similar to the Seatek Mighty Miter
Or similar too the Milwaukee Sawzall Pipe Clamp System.
These won't work as is because they rotate the blade through the cut rather than keeping the blade perpendicular to the work.
jmygann
100 kW
- Joined
- May 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,069
Randy writes ...
A splined id of the CSK clutch with a gokart sprocket hub clamped to the id of it is the best way to get a precision fit with 0 run out or backlash for the motor drive. A 3 or 5 cog freewheel cassette designed to thread onto a threaded hub, the hardened id threads can be cut by Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) or broached for the bicycle pedal drive. .......................
Even if you get a oversize CSK 35 it is fairly easy to make a shim out of thin wall stainless tubing to press fit the clutch and shim onto the freehub then clamp the gokart sprocket hub onto the od of the CSK clutch. Then you have a selection of $13. composite #219 sprockets that range from 72 teeth to 92 teeth or #35 sprockets that go up to 114 teeth. One CSK clutch will last a lifetime. ..................
If you like the CSK clutch mounting system, it can also be done on any Shimino freehub using a modified 5 cog cassette freewheel for your pedal speeds or just mount the motor drive on the left side of the wheel or use the front wheel.
A splined id of the CSK clutch with a gokart sprocket hub clamped to the id of it is the best way to get a precision fit with 0 run out or backlash for the motor drive. A 3 or 5 cog freewheel cassette designed to thread onto a threaded hub, the hardened id threads can be cut by Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) or broached for the bicycle pedal drive. .......................
Even if you get a oversize CSK 35 it is fairly easy to make a shim out of thin wall stainless tubing to press fit the clutch and shim onto the freehub then clamp the gokart sprocket hub onto the od of the CSK clutch. Then you have a selection of $13. composite #219 sprockets that range from 72 teeth to 92 teeth or #35 sprockets that go up to 114 teeth. One CSK clutch will last a lifetime. ..................
If you like the CSK clutch mounting system, it can also be done on any Shimino freehub using a modified 5 cog cassette freewheel for your pedal speeds or just mount the motor drive on the left side of the wheel or use the front wheel.
jmy,
There is nothing here that is new.
Yes, you can use CSK35 sprague clutch for the motor freewheel - I did on my Moulton. Locking it to the driver is not a big deal. You then need a custom adapter to interface with whatever sprocket system you use. There is no go-kart sprocket hub that fits the CSK35!
Then you still have to deal with the freewheel for the pedals using a different method...............
We're trying to find a simple way that everyone can use, or that can be fabricated at a reasonable price.
There is nothing here that is new.
Yes, you can use CSK35 sprague clutch for the motor freewheel - I did on my Moulton. Locking it to the driver is not a big deal. You then need a custom adapter to interface with whatever sprocket system you use. There is no go-kart sprocket hub that fits the CSK35!
Then you still have to deal with the freewheel for the pedals using a different method...............
We're trying to find a simple way that everyone can use, or that can be fabricated at a reasonable price.
Luke,liveforphysics said:I will order them, and begin fooling around with files and nonsense until I've either made a mess, or have some functional spline mounting freewheels
If the number of engagement points on the freewheel has a factor of 9, you can use the freewheel mech. to register the spline positions for filing. Then, all you need is a guided file slightly wider than the driver splines.
biohazardman
100 kW
Dremel first and file it to shape second maybe? It's what I do to make one offs but then again I am old and decrepid. ;^)
Certainly, the ENO freewheel has a 36t ratchet, as does the Echo.Miles said:If the number of engagement points on the freewheel has a factor of 9, you can use the freewheel mech. to register the spline positions for filing. Then, all you need is a guided file slightly wider than the driver splines.
Sorry Gary, I'll start a new thread for this.
See: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=13532&p=200663#p200663
Thud
1 MW
Gary,
Asking to see how the 3- speed hub is holding up? AusieJester mentioned that Safe broke one at 1K watts.
I hope yours is going to prove worthy. I have some plans & would love to hear any updates bad or good.
I will search for the thread where safe lunched his. Thanks, Todd.
Asking to see how the 3- speed hub is holding up? AusieJester mentioned that Safe broke one at 1K watts.
I hope yours is going to prove worthy. I have some plans & would love to hear any updates bad or good.
I will search for the thread where safe lunched his. Thanks, Todd.
GGoodrum
1 MW
Thud said:Gary,
Asking to see how the 3- speed hub is holding up? AusieJester mentioned that Safe broke one at 1K watts.
I hope yours is going to prove worthy. I have some plans & would love to hear any updates bad or good.
I will search for the thread where safe lunched his. Thanks, Todd.
Hi Todd --
I actually haven't ridden it in a couple of weeks, as I've had too many other things going on, mainly trying to finish my LiPo balancers. Anyway, I've abused this hub quite a bit, hitting multiple 6kW+ peaks. I'm not sure what the failure mode symptoms are, but it seems as tight and smooth-shifting as ever.
Love your two-speed tranny, btw.
-- Gary
liveforphysics
100 TW
Are you able to shift up and down while WOT?
Todd,Thud said:Gary,
Asking to see how the 3- speed hub is holding up? AusieJester mentioned that Safe broke one at 1K watts.
Safe was using one of the Mk1 SA 8 speeds, I believe. They had a lot of problems with those for normal use, let alone power-assisted... Also, we'd need to know the torque input, not just the power. The 3 speeds are generally more robust - I've never had any problems with the Dual-Drive on my Moulton conversion.
Thud
1 MW
Thanks,
That is all good news.
I can say, if you are doing full power up shifts, (sounded very close in the videos)then you are doing exactly what we need for a duribility test.
I am sure someone here would have fun designing a tourture track/proving grounds. :lol:
I don't think we need that in this case. Thanks again & good luck.
Miles,
(Got me again-you are so winning)T-factor will be the measurment, another thread down the road --oops, is there a tech dicusion regarding these calculations already? NBD as I am not ready yet.
I would apreciate a link to Safe's failed hub post when you get a minute. He is prolific.(I grew a long white beard last night trying to find it) Thanks in advance.
That is all good news.
I can say, if you are doing full power up shifts, (sounded very close in the videos)then you are doing exactly what we need for a duribility test.
I am sure someone here would have fun designing a tourture track/proving grounds. :lol:
I don't think we need that in this case. Thanks again & good luck.
Miles,
(Got me again-you are so winning)T-factor will be the measurment, another thread down the road --oops, is there a tech dicusion regarding these calculations already? NBD as I am not ready yet.
I would apreciate a link to Safe's failed hub post when you get a minute. He is prolific.(I grew a long white beard last night trying to find it)
Thanks in advance.
