Direct-drive 3220 setup with a 3-Speed Hub...

[ev_nred]

what sporkect are you useing? where did you get it?

 

[jmygann]

Who is running a direct drive to a 3 speed hub ... GGoodrum, Miles, Randy , ....... ???

 

[GGoodrum]

Well, technically I still have a 3220 setup, driving a 3-speed Sturmy Archer hub that I got here, but this hasn't been ridden in over a year. In the brief time I used it, I had no problems at all, but this 3220 "direct drive" setup just makes way too much racket, for my tastes.

I think that it eventually would have failed, trying to put 4-5kW through it, as others have had issues (check AJ's long cruiser thread...), but one way around the stress problem might be to use one of the slipper clutches Matt came up with, to keep things together. As I said before, I know a guy down in San Diego who was using 3-speed Nexus hubs with big MARS motor setups, but he used V-belts to directly drive a large rear pulley, and they slip on take off. I haven't talked to him in awhile, but he had been using these setups for sometime.

I think another way to alleviate some of the stresses of a higher power setup would be to use the hub as an intermediary jackshaft. I think some folks here are doing that, but I don't have a link.

-- Gary

 

[jmygann]

use the hub as an intermediary jackshaft. I think some folks here are doing that, but I don't have a link.

-- Gary

Thinking of that ... could a SRAM DD with dual freewheels be used as a jackshaft ?

drive the left side of the rear wheel ?

Maybe Randy has the most efficient drive ?

 

[jmygann]

I had no problems at all, but this 3220 "direct drive" setup just makes way too much racket, for my tastes.

Where is the noise coming from ? motor ? gears ??

 

[GGoodrum]

I had no problems at all, but this 3220 "direct drive" setup just makes way too much racket, for my tastes.

Where is the noise coming from ? motor ? gears ??

The chain going around the small #35 motor sprocket is the major source, I think. I've heard other AF setups that have at least one more stage, and they are much quieter.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I had no problems at all, but this 3220 "direct drive" setup just makes way too much racket, for my tastes.

Where is the noise coming from ? motor ? gears ??

The chain going around the small #35 motor sprocket is the major source, I think. I've heard other AF setups that have at least one more stage, and they are much quieter.

Its the combination of the small sprocket and high RPM of the primary reduction. D's Stinky had something like a 4:1 belt primary reduction and a similar sized secondary drive sprocket (11T #219) and that wasn't excessively noisy.

Gary I think you mentioned converting this bike to friction drive? Maybe you could consider using one of Matt's single stage belt drives (maybe with a slipper clutch) for a primary reduction driving your existing #35 system (with different sized sprockets)?

Matt has tube clamp mounts now that should solve the problem you had with mounting his drive:

I will make these in 1.5 inch, 2 inch, and 2.5 inch. I will also stock shims to shim these down to odd sizes. The shims are merely aluminum tube cut to half-moon shape. So, my clamps will fit everything from 2.5 inch diameter tubes all the way down to 1.125 tube.

This would solve the noise problem and the slipper clutch would tame the excess torque. So that should resolve the problems and might be easier on this bike than starting from scratch with a friction drive because of the work you've already done?

 

[GGoodrum]

Actually, I'm not interested in "fixing" this setup at all. I started out with a two-stage reduction, with a #25 chain drive on the 1st stage. It was a bit quieter, but not much. The purpose of this build was to try a single stage reduction, directly from an RC-type motor. It works just fine, but it about as far from "stealthy" as you can get.

Anyway, I'm over this, and want to move on to something different. For one thing, my next 3220-based setup will not be hampered with a 50V limit. This 3220-7t will either get sensors, or it will use Lyen's sensorless module, and it will be powered from an 18s2p Turnigy pack. This much is a given. I'm also pretty sure it will end up in a friction drive, of some sort. I am still researching this, however, so I'm not sure what form it will take just yet. It will have considerably more power than the ones I've seen so far, assuming that is possible.

-- Gary

 

[jmygann]

anyway to figure the best rear tooth size (approx. 14 tooth on motor to reduce noise)using this system on the Rover 3 speed S-RF3 trike ? 20 " wheel 48-50 volts LIFEPO4 30 amp

http://www.terratrike.com/rover.php

ratios ....75 1.0 1.33



This motor (116Kv) and controller .....

http://www.thesuperkids.com/15wabmcbr24m.html

 

[etard]

Beware, The Question Master...

 

[jmygann]

Okay ... I ordered the adapter for the SA 3 speed ... 20 " wheel

http://www.tppacks.com/proddetail.asp?prod=EBKE-zz-FWAdapter

for 25mph in high gear ... kv of 75 ...run at 24 volts if needed .... motor sprocket 14 tooth (to keep it quiet) .. what size large sprocket to order ??

 

[jmygann]

Is there a composite sprocket that can be used with the adapter ? 92 tooth ??

 

[Andje]

http://www.pktaxles.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=PKTS&Category_Code=SP

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Is there a composite sprocket that can be used with the adapter ? 92 tooth ??

92T composite 219 (not sure what you need to do to make it work with the adapter):
http://www.magnaracing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1196

Extron Composite #219 Rear Sprocket, 92 T

Extron by Righetti Ridolfi Composite #219 Rear Sprocket, 92 teeth. Extron composite sprockets are lighter (up to 40% lighter) , provide less noise, are longer lasting, offer less sliding resistance and longer chain life.

http://www.cometkartsales.com/store/sprocket/extron.htm

Extron Composite Rear Sprockets, #219 Single Piece Sprockets, 72-92T $15.50 each...

*Due to supply problems Comet reserves the right to send the Extron Pro Kevlar gear in the place of standard Extron Gear. The Kevlar Sprocket is stronger but weighs the same amount, it is also creme colored instead of black.

And Kevlar:
http://www.dpkmotorsports.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=155

Now you can gain the same lightweight advantage of the composite gears with the ruggedness of Kevlar!

These gears are all the rage on the national and regional level. Their strong lightweight composite build makes for far less centrifugal weight. Also, they flex with your chain in the corners to prevent the chain from coming off.

Available in for #219 chain only - 72 Tooth - 92 Tooth

 

[jmygann]

Need adapter from 4 bolt on adapter to 6 bolt on composite sprocket

 

[GGoodrum]

I'm resurrecting this thread because I'm thinking about replacing the existing 3-speed S-A hub with a Nuvinci development kit hub, with the auto-shifter, that I just received. When I do this, I'll use a bit bigger motor sprocket, and redo the chain tensioning, to try and quiet things down a bit. I don't need as much reduction from the motor to the rear, as the Nuvinci has a a wider ratio range (350%...).

What I'm not sure about is how I will do the sprockets/freewheels in back, and I'm not sure two will fit, with the Nuvinci. Worst comes to worst, I will use the freewheel in the crank, but I hope it doesn't come to that. With the S-A hub, the steel cog is dished a bit, which allows the large #35 sprocket to be spaced a bit back over the hub. The adapter and the freewheel just fit, and in fact, I needed to Dremel off the the four tabs used for removing the FW. I'm not home at the moment, so I can't check the fit yet, but I will tomorrow.



This may not end up being my permanent setup, but the reason I'm using this configuration is that it will be the quickest for me to start testing the Nuvinci. If it ends up being even a little quieter than the previous setup, I'll keep it this way, though. It'll be a lot less work, that's for sure. The motor is mounted already, along with the controller, one of Richard's throttle widgets and a WattsUp meter. All I need to do is the mechanical changes, for the new setup, and add a 12s2p LiPo pack.

-- Gary

 

[GGoodrum]

Hmm... I might need a "Plan B". Per this drawing, there might not be enough room to fit two freewheels. Maybe I can move things to the left a bit, and dish the wheel, or maybe I can widen the dropouts a bit more.



If I can't figure out how to get two FWs in there, I might see about maybe bolting one side of a DOS ENO freewheel to the big sprocket and have the pedal chain drive the other side. I'd have to put a FW on the motor and the crank, though.

-- Gary

 

[liveforphysics]

2 freewheels on a nuvinci would be a pretty damn nice setup. Climb hills like a tractor, and blaze down the highway at speed.

 

[GGoodrum]

2 freewheels on a nuvinci would be a pretty damn nice setup. Climb hills like a tractor, and blaze down the highway at speed.

I agree. There has to be a way to make this work.

 

[mwkeefer]

Awesome! What turn is your 3220?
I've got a few going now and they are a blast (if you can avoid flipping).

-Mike

 

[drewjet]

My Nuvinci should be here tomorrow, I am currious to see how you workout 2 freewheels on the hub. I have that on my mountain bike and absolutely love it.

The first test of my nuvinci will be without pedal input, but as cheap as they are currently, I may get a second to do a bike similar to Luke's

 

[GGoodrum]

Awesome! What turn is your 3220?
I've got a few going now and they are a blast (if you can avoid flipping).

-Mike

It's a 3220-7T. The kV, in a wye configuration, is 97.

This setup had stump-pulling torque, in low gear, but the 3-speed S-A hub is already making noises and this has only be used maybe a dozen times, a couple by me, and the rest by my 23-year old son.

-- Gary

 

[GGoodrum]

My Nuvinci should be here tomorrow, I am currious to see how you workout 2 freewheels on the hub. I have that on my mountain bike and absolutely love it.

The first test of my nuvinci will be without pedal input, but as cheap as they are currently, I may get a second to do a bike similar to Luke's

I'm home now (I was away for the weekend...), and have opened mine up. It doesn't look impossible, but it will be a challenge, for sure.

-- Gary

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Very exciting to say the least!

I am curious, I know that the "internal freewheeling" isn't ideal with the NuVinci compared to a standard freewheel, especially of this older N171B model, but I'm still trying to understand the need for the second freewheel, is it just to eliminate driving the motor too when pedaling?

If so, wouldn't something Matt has on his drives allow you to freewheel at the motor too?

 

[DudleyDawson]

but I'm still trying to understand the need for the second freewheel, is it just to eliminate driving the motor too when pedaling?

If so, wouldn't something Matt has on his drives allow you to freewheel at the motor too?

I think that the second freewheel is to eliminate the need for adding freewheeling cranks.