DIY Aptera knockoff?

[jmygann]

http://www.urbee.net/home/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JpIj9IN924&feature=player_embedded

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2041106/Urbee-The-worlds-printed-car-rolling-3D-printing-presses-.html

 

[salty9]

Here is one construction method http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stitch_and_glue. I wouldn't use it though. I like the TREV tub method better.

 

[mistercrash]

http://green.autoblog.com/2007/02/08/need-a-three-wheeled-all-electric-speed-machine-it-s-yours-for/

Thank you for that, the large pic is now my wallpaper. Sadly, the EBW company that worked with Campagna to make this E-Trex and the new company that came out of their joint efforts, Silence Inc., don't seem to exist anymore. At 50 grand, it's way too expensive for me, especially for an open vehicle. But still is one hell of a cool EV. I wonder if they managed to sell at least one.

 

[TylerDurden]

I like monocoques, but I imagine a tube frame will be easier for most builds.

Only easier if you have the bending, welding, fabrication skills and equipment.
Not the lightest or strongest method either.
A traditional plywood build would be possible too , but modern composite board and fabrics make for a simple tough , lightweight "tub".

I generally agree (which is why I like monocoques), however I'm inclined to think:

• Someone with a set of plans will more likely be able to find a jobber to assemble a tube frame than a monocoque.
  A basic tube-frame is more easily adapted and modified to accept different drivetrains, suspension members, skins, etc.

( I illustrated a truss frame that could be be built with or without welding. )


The buggy/T-rex frames are nice, but not very practical. A platform for an enclosed cabin requires some re-design of the frame.

 

[jmygann]

The Urbee has a tubular frame .... must say it looks good. The Chipman EV still looks the most appealing

 

[michaelplogue]

With a thought towards simplifying body construction: I know that I'm intimidated by the thought of trying to make a mould for a fiberglass body - and I can only assume that many others would be as well. With that in mind, and since we're considering a true DIY project, setting up something like what's in the post below would make things much easier for the less experienced folks out there.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21112&p=307422&hilit=Binder+clips#p307422

The individual 'panels' could be pre-designed where they can be printed out and stenciled on card stock or thin cardboard. Once assembled, the entire structure could be sprayed with epoxy or FB resin - making it nice and stiff. Then it would be a simple matter of laying FB over it making the final shell. Much easier than trying to sculpt the body from stryofoam - and less messy.

Of course, you would end up with a 'stealth fighter' body style, but it could end up looking pretty cool.

 

[jmygann]

still need a tube frame

Chipman ...."The body is fiberglass composite using the same principles as in surfboards, lays
on top of the frame since it is non-structural, and with removal of two pins can be lifted
off for access to all internal components."

Lots of reverse trikes ...
http://reversetrike.com/homebuilt.html

 

[jmygann]

reverse trike non electric but nice frame

THE STILETTO PROJECT

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/646433/5

 

[jmygann]

Convert this to all electric ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNQSt3VIbPc

[youtube]RNQSt3VIbPc[/youtube]

[youtube]2Kbz10u_06I[/youtube]

 

[Hillhater]

There is very little common consensus being shown here,.... other than most seem to have accepted the "Tadpole" concept.
I believe the reason many of those projects like the Aptera, Sparrow,Trex E, etc have failed to progress is due to their "unconventional" appearance.
As with many of us posting here, there is a great temptation to promote our own preferences and "fantasy" designs rather than consider a more widely acceptable vehicle concept.
I am not even sure a three wheeler of any shape would be easily accepted outside the "biking" community, ?
But i guess we can only target the niche "early adopter"/green market at this stage, however even that probablyrequires a more widely acceptable concept,...these futuristic, ultimate " aero" designs are likely to be just too radical for many to easily accept.
We still need to go through this "brainstorming" phase to throw up all the options, before we can rationalise a workable concept that satisfies the majority...
.... unless we really do intend to replicate the Aptera ?

PS: My personal current favorite is the TREV, but here is another possible "kit" candidate to base something on ... detailed plans cost $200
hybrid or full electric ?
http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm

 

[Hillhater]

I Just noticed the Meyers Motors ( of Sparrow infamy ) new 2 seater "Duo" project.
It looks practical and somewhat attractive, but not a DIY project ..could be available for $23k :?
http://www.myersmotors.com/preorder.html

 

[salty9]

......... I am not even sure a three wheeler of any shape would be easily accepted outside the "biking" community, ? . . . .]

A powerful argument for a three wheeler is that in many states they can be licensed as motorcycles and have fewer requirements.

 

[Hillhater]

A powerful argument for a three wheeler is that in many states they can be licensed as motorcycles and have fewer requirements.

I understand that there are advantages, particularly for a self builder, but if you have any thought of a wider market ( selling to Joe Public) than it may be less of an advantage, or even a handicap! .
Also A 4 wheeler increases stability and interior space greatly... big + points.

 

[jmygann]

......... I am not even sure a three wheeler of any shape would be easily accepted outside the "biking" community, ? . . . .]

A powerful argument for a three wheeler is that in many states they can be licensed as motorcycles and have fewer requirements.

Is that what happened to the Aptera ? which is/was a motorcycle .... 3 wheels is a motorcycle in all states ??

 

[TylerDurden]

I understand that there are advantages, particularly for a self builder, but if you have any thought of a wider market ( selling to Joe Public) than it may be less of an advantage, or even a handicap!

When gas is >$5/gal USD, Americans will buy the ugliest deathtraps they can find - as long as they don't need gas... they did it in the Seventies. But we can do better. The power, range and safety are all easily within our reach.

What keeps killing EVs is corporate malfeasance by big-oil insiders. Distribute the technology and designs openly: with a few shops making frames, a few shops making skins, a few shops making drivetrains, a few shops making traction-packs... nothing can kill the progress.

Look at electric bikes in China... millions of them EVERY YEAR. The designs are all very similar, with rare exceptions. Make a practical EV that anyone can copy and the same thing will happen.

 

[Hillhater]

Aptera rear swing arm ... but I thought they then went to a FWD

From Wiki..

...The Aptera 2 Series was a three-wheeled vehicle with front-wheel drive. On March 23, 2010, Aptera announced their use of BorgWarner's 31-03 eGearDrive transmission for the 2e drive train....

 

[jmygann]

would like to see that FWD ..... but then the chinese knockoff or the triad says ... front wheel drive ??

 

[bigmoose]

WOW 98% efficiency on BorgWarner's 31-03 eGearDrive transmission!

 

[jmygann]

I understand that there are advantages, particularly for a self builder, but if you have any thought of a wider market ( selling to Joe Public) than it may be less of an advantage, or even a handicap!

When gas is >$5/gal USD, Americans will buy the ugliest deathtraps they can find - as long as they don't need gas... they did it in the Seventies. But we can do better. The power, range and safety are all easily within our reach.

What keeps killing EVs is corporate malfeasance by big-oil insiders. Distribute the technology and designs openly: with a few shops making frames, a few shops making skins, a few shops making drivetrains, a few shops making traction-packs... nothing can kill the progress.

Look at electric bikes in China... millions of them EVERY YEAR. The designs are all very similar, with rare exceptions. Make a practical EV that anyone can copy and the same thing will happen.

The chinese have already produced an aptera knock off ... FWD lithiums

http://greenauto.en.alibaba.com/product/209702123-209282644/HIGH_SPEED_ELECTRIC_CAR.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1

plus a tandum with a hub motor

http://greenauto.en.alibaba.com/product/306767069-209282644/Electric_Tricycle_With_Hub_Motor.html?tracelog=cgsotherproduct1

 

[jmygann]

so then green vehicles labels it as the triac

[youtube]j_q3D0qp0So[/youtube]


[youtube]8M1szwfY2N4[/youtube]



and zap does the alias

[youtube]JCvP_ydQjAc[/youtube]

 

[Hillhater]

What keeps killing EVs is corporate malfeasance by big-oil insiders.

Hmm ?.. whilst i can agree with you that is a possibility, there are still a few EV manufacturers hanging in there ( Mayer, Switch, ZAP, + all the Asian makers) so the products are available, just not selling as you might expect given the cost of oil.
I still believe the general public will be reluctant to buy a vehicle that is dramatically different in appearance and concept ( 3 wheels). Its the natural human resistance to change.
That is why the Volt ,Leaf etc will lead in the progressive change to EVs

... Distribute the technology and designs openly: with a few shops making frames, a few shops making skins, a few shops making drivetrains, a few shops making traction-packs... nothing can kill the progress..

!00% agree ! .. much like the "Kit Car" market.

 

[jmygann]

Some guys are talking VW front axles, which are CAR parts. This means difficult to get road legal, unlike the Aptera, which WAS an enclosed Motorcycle.

Why does using "car parts" make registration difficult ? .. where do you draw the line on "Car parts" ?.. brakes, hubs, electricals, ??
The Switch clearly uses a VW front end assembly, and the Hawk used many car suspension parts.

to me they must have made that front sus wider than a stock VW. There are some sand rails running Alum. replacement front torsion tubes

Need around 80" front track for 2 people side by side

rack and pinion ...

nice rear swing arm

Building a Widened BJ Beam ... maybe the torsion rods are not necessary , just use the empty tubes and coil over shocks

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365665&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[Hillhater]

to me they must have made that front sus wider than a stock VW. There are some sand rails running Alum. replacement front torsion tubes

Need around 80" front track for 2 people side by side

changing the width of the stock VW front end is common practice for many kit cars/rails etc.
Its a relatively simple mod .. compared to most FE set ups.
And the Basic VW assy is pretty light and very tough to, with many aftermarket mods etc available.
.. A very sensible choice..if you read the hassle the guy had with the "Hawk" FE

 

[jmygann]

Okay we got a simple front sus

Now the rear swing arm .... Chipman says ..."My design distributes load as wide as possible to keep weight down."

but he agrees that it might be better to have the motor off the swing arm ???

 

[jmygann]

Both the stilleto and the switch use a curved body frame ..... almost like a boat. Chipman uses a straight frame ..

stilleto

switch ...

chipman ..

pros - cons ??