DoctorBass's new toy: KMX TYPHOON **UPDATE 29 may 2011**

[recumpence]

The benefits of my system are;

Light weight.

Tunability (ratio, clutch, etc).

Centralized weight.

However, there is no doubt big hub motors have some serious power! Besides, non-hub systems are a bit complicated.

So, Doc, what chassis revisions are you planning?

Matt

 

[wojtek]

from my experience RC gives also better heating management and riding in wet conditions.
But yes, back to your love hub!

The benefits of my system are;

Light weight.

Tunability (ratio, clutch, etc).

Centralized weight.

However, there is no doubt big hub motors have some serious power! Besides, non-hub systems are a bit complicated.

So, Doc, what chassis revisions are you planning?

Matt

 

[Doctorbass]

The benefits of my system are;

Light weight.

Tunability (ratio, clutch, etc).

Centralized weight.

However, there is no doubt big hub motors have some serious power! Besides, non-hub systems are a bit complicated.

So, Doc, what chassis revisions are you planning?

Matt

Hmm.. Matt, I would really enlarge it to have better cornering stability.. but on the other side.. every time i take the cycle path, i'll need to make some manual manouvers to cross the gates that right now fit perfect with the actual width..

The ride i made yesterday thru Quebec city between midnight and 3am convinced me that this trike is already really close to the performances i want!

Guess what... I still not fited the steering damper to it and i still never had any sing of wobble!!!.. My top speed yesterday in a brand new pavement 2 miles long boulevard was 78km/h sustained at 2800Watts wich is not bad dor the consumption at that speed... and .. that was with the tire with the new low pressure.

Again.. what i realy love is the acceleration!!! INCREDIBBLE!! and the powerband too!.. at 50kmh i still feel the same aceleration as from a dead start!.

and the rear wheel can also slip sometime... from 50km/h accel to 65 !!

I also found the perfect match for the power of the regen vs the needed brafing force for drift cornering!!.. JUST AMAZING!!! I can turn while i regen a bit and drift by the same time!


but at 78kmh.. i lost my "precious" KMX flag due to the wind.. when i arrived at home there was just a... little fiberglass stick... :lol:

Doc

 

[recumpence]

I know what you mean. I am in love with mine.

I just got in from a ride. At 40mph, I sustain 1,650 watts. I love this thing!

I am really excited to see how you like it when you do more tire research and chassis refinement.

Matt

 

[Doctorbass]

I am really excited to see how you like it when you do more tire research and chassis refinement.

Matt

Yeah.. I think i'll use it for one more month "as is" and then will decide what i modify.

Please keep for me a pair of those rims you talkes about Are they for 16 or 20" tires?

Next thing i wanna do on teh frame is building a battery box with the lower center of gravity as possible.

Curiously, the very first and second ride i made with the trike at max 35kmh affraid me when i touched the steering and i thought it was too sensitive..

now, without having to modify it, i like it and i'm no more worried about going fast.

I am learning on how to adapt my driving skill when hitting put holes and bump on the road...generally i can keep the trajectory no prob.. sometime it affect the direction a bit but i'm still in control of it.

I plan on making a kind of fiberglass shape and fairing around the trike.. just like i draw above and to add alot of light... like led, laser lines for scanning the put holes in front of the etrike etc... but i want to make it VISIBLE... more than enough!

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

1650W at 40mph?.. that'S good data.. i'll test mine at that speed to compare for fun

Something funny about my trike today is that when i went outdoor of teh garage to make another ride, the battery was full ( 102.8V and as my wife was watching me by the window of our house, i wanted to " :lol: impress" her by making a powerfull start accelration... she was with one of her friend... so i hit the throttle WOT... the KMX made a powerfull blast aceleration and after 10m distance.. everything stopped...nothing ...
Than i thought... Oh NO.. not another time to repair that ?%?&*&)(*(*&%? controller!!!

So i looked on the system and the 3x parallel 35A fuses was blown :lol:

I remember looking my wife and her friend laughing at me!! :lol: :lol:

I replaced the fuse and everything came back to normal 8) and i go.

When i came back, the max constant power i saw on the C-A was 9700W during acceleration on teh fresh charged battery.

that'S with 185A phase current.

I plan on trying 250A tomorrow

I remember before i modified the hub from a 5302 to a 5304, i recorded 17 000W constant during aceleration... so i still have some margin!

Something that is nice too is that the rear tire is begining to have a flat shape and loose the round shape... so as long as i use it by drifting, it make the contact surface to increase .. until i will see the white layer thru the rubber..

as it become flat shape, as the drift become better!


I must find a cameraman!! to show you that!.. 8)

Doc

 

[wojtek]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[wojtek]

1650W at 40mph?.. that'S good data.. i'll test mine at that speed to compare for fun

Doc

I think Matt should also make a test at your speed of 78kmh to compare - provided that he can go THAT fast!

 

[recumpence]

78 kph is not a problem for my motor. But, I am running prototype belt drive. I only have this ratio to work with.

Anyway, I just recorded a 16.92wh per mile ride averaging 19mph. That is the best efficiency I have ever seen with this trike. Pretty cool.

I think Doc has me beat in total power, though. I am pulling right at 9kw with this single motor setup. He has the potential for much more.

Doc, I have 16 inch bicycle rims. They are 12.5 inch rims for 16 inch bicycle tires.

Matt

 

[Doctorbass]

Matt,

Did you ever mind to add a rear suspension to your trike?

When i see the way the frame is built at rear, i think it would be not so difficult... just like adding a dual bearing pivot right i the place where the square tube is splited in two part fo rthe rear wheel... and than adding a good quality shock and soldering the seat frame to have it fixed to the front portion of the frame and becoming independent from the rear added swing arm. ?

Doc

 

[recumpence]

Matt,

Did you ever mind to add a rear suspension to your trike?

When i see the way the frame is built at rear, i think it would be not so difficult... just like adding a dual bearing pivot right i the place where the square tube is splited in two part fo rthe rear wheel... and than adding a good quality shock and soldering the seat frame to have it fixed to the front portion of the frame and becoming independent from the rear added swing arm. ?

Doc

I have looked into it. I am also looking into building a full suspension trike.

Matt

 

[Doctorbass]

Did you ever saw a T-Rex Campagna trike motorcycle?

When i see my KMX, i can't stop thinking about a NO DUCT TAPE body upgrade 8)

This is a quick drawing of what i'd like to try with that KMX

I would love to know someone that is better artist than me and that would sketch that with better quality and shadows etc..than my MS paint "artist" application... Feel free to make your own with the basic file i join to that thread :wink:

What do you think?

Doc

That was at Kingsey Falls EV meet This weekend ! We drove a bit together and had ALOT OF FUN !!!

Paul Laprade is the owner and conceptor of the first Electric-Trex few years ago. he drove alot in California with it and planed on selling few of them.

Modified Warp 11 and couples of TS cells.. and a Zilla 2K

vs

Electric KMX modified X5 motor and 0.15K controller :lol:

We made a couples of drift and that was fun.

Doc

 

[steveo]

Did you ever saw a T-Rex Campagna trike motorcycle?

When i see my KMX, i can't stop thinking about a NO DUCT TAPE body upgrade 8)

This is a quick drawing of what i'd like to try with that KMX

I would love to know someone that is better artist than me and that would sketch that with better quality and shadows etc..than my MS paint "artist" application... Feel free to make your own with the basic file i join to that thread :wink:

What do you think?

Doc

That was at Kingsey Falls EV meet This weekend ! We drove a bit together and had ALOT OF FUN !!!

Paul Laprade is the owner and conceptor of the first Electric-Trex few years ago. he drove alot in California with it and planed on selling few of them.

Modified Warp 11 and couples of TS cells.. and a Zilla 2K

vs

Electric KMX modified X5 motor and 0.15K controller :lol:

We made a couples of drift and that was fun.

Doc

electric car is one thing...

how electric t-rex

that easy worth about 100k to build

luck you doc if you get to drive it heheh

-steveo

 

[Green Machine]

Hey Dr. Bass and other trike guys,

Nice trike..i am getting the same trike with a matt drive through matt (recumpence)...I am super excited....i want to go around San Francsico streets at night like a formula 1 car...i need to invest in some night vision goggles

I wondered how do you like the cornering of your trike?

How fast can it take the corners compared to a e-bike on a swirvey road? Ever fear tipping over?

Do you think extra battery weight down low might give you extra ballast to keep you from tipping over or would the weight have more of a detrimental effect?

 

[Doctorbass]

Hey Dr. Bass and other trike guys,

Nice trike..i am getting the same trike with a matt drive through matt (recumpence)...I am super excited....i want to go around San Francsico streets at night like a formula 1 car...i need to invest in some night vision goggles

I wondered how do you like the cornering of your trike?

How fast can it take the corners compared to a e-bike on a swirvey road? Ever fear tipping over?

Do you think extra battery weight down low might give you extra ballast to keep you from tipping over or would the weight have more of a detrimental effect?

I would love to drag race with Matt :wink: i'm sure he would too Hub vs RC.. the eternal quest !

I drove with it in Quebec town ( also called Vieux Quebec).. just where we have the Chateau Frontenac and alot of good restaurant and the marina... People was really impressed and guess what.. I crossed few police car and over all them 3 intercepted me to question.. .. Dont worrie.. they was just curious and they asked me alot of question about how i built it.. I think i have the touch to impress positively them 8) out of 5 policeman 3 admited they would love to try it after their work 8)

I feel alot lucky cause the way i drive and i present them my ebikes.. they are impressed and sometime say thei would have a chance to try them.. if only they would not be working..

Sometime they reconize me cause i was shown many times on a TV show for my speed record of 2009.. and they say.. Hey.. Is it you who was on the TV show on channel 43?...

Maybe i touch wood.... but i think it's important to keep a relax and positive attitude.. Cops in Quebec are really comprehensive.

Eventhou they know i made a speed record, when they reconize me they feel lucky and happy to meet me :wink: so... who's next? 8)

As long as they never heard about ebike accident or bad attitude and unsafe comportment.. they are open to ebikes..
I always pedal... hard or light.. I have ALOT OF LEDS to be visible from far distance, I never go fast when there is alot of people walking around

Since i am a kind of exemple ands popular person about ebike in our 7millions people province, I must give the right exemple an attitude to make ebikes appear the most cool and inovative transportation way.

Something i am proud of is that over the world I feel responsible for the addiction of probably thousand new ebikers... I receive alot of PM from youtube, emails and E-S from people who say i inspired them...

and.. that's my big reward


About the cornering I must say i kept the original tires and that's confortable... but i see they torsionate during cornering...

The cornering is still accurate and i now dont really feel i could tipping over. Curiously it's at high speed that the handlebar become less sensitive.. i like that... .. just like on the sports car... maybe because of thecentrifugal force of the wheel that restrict the change of direction too quickly...

I ran over 80km/h with it and never felt any wooble.. so my steering damper is still sleeping on my bench table.

The Battery i have now are placed on a location that is perfectly centered right on the "virtual" axel between two front wheels and that's perfect cause i also can take my legs sit on the top of the battery to get like an extra lengh of the seat..

If i would put the battery under the seat that would be nice.. but the more weight i shift to the rear the less stable the trike would become.. I have a 24 pounds hub motor on the rear.. dont forget.

The only cons i have about that trike is that the putholes and minimal crack on the road is transmited to directly to my body.. I feel every defect on the road...

Suspension would be really nice..

about that i might add one on the rear wheel.. that trike seem to be ready for that when looking on the rear part of the frame!

DOc

 

[wojtek]

I tried my trike few times before putting it apart for conversion. Still not finished- waiting time for the missing parts is killing me!

But it is HUGE difference between riding a bike and a full suspension trike and a velomobile. Well you will see.. My feelings were quite mixed to be honest.
long term I guess the right trike = tilting + full suspension.

IT IS DEFINITELY FUN! cant wait trying out a electrified one!

 

[Dee Jay]

29 mai 2011

MORE CONFORT !!

Nice ride Doc!

I just skimmed through this thread so I'm not sure if it has been suggested yet but if you want more comfort, bigger wheels roll over bumps much better, so lacing 20" at front and 26" at the rear should make a difference.

And seat suspension is very doable. Seat suspension will raise your center of gravity a little but enough battery packs under your seat should hold you down, and we all know you have more than enough battery packs, he he!

 

[wojtek]

bigger wheels have their big disadvantages though...

the suspension seat is good idea, another one is to change tires to even thicker ones.. Are you using 16/20 inch tyres? I just came across schalbe BIG APPLE tires for 20 inch wheels at 2.35!!!! that is big difference comparing to Maxxis Hookworms

 

[recumpence]

I think a drag race would prove that Doc has more torque than I do. I would need to go back to twin motors to keep up with him in acceleration. I could out corner him, though. I corner so hard I cannot stay in the seat and I pop spokes. But, that is not a fair comparison. My frame is radically modified.

A couple pointers I can give you;

#1 I am sorry to insult anyone, but big Apples freakin SUCK for hard cornering. I know they give a supple ride and that makes them desirable for a smooth ride. But, wait until you try Hookworms! When cornering, the Bog Apples scrub and wear down. The Hookworms just hook like super-glue! And the Hookworms will not wear out. They last a long time!

#2 The steering damper will help quite a bit. I am glad you tamed the steering down. But, the damper is cool because you can dial in the handling you want with the twist of the knob. It is really cool.

Beyond that, I think you have it dialed.

Matt

 

[icecube57]

You have a point on the Bog Apples. I have the 2.35 love them they absorb alot of bumps and make the ride smoother but their ability to provide so much support at low psi has me worried about the lateral strength on hard cornering. Im a big fellow and Its already a sight to see the Big Apple bell out a little bit but also looking at the narrow rim that my ebikekit 9C motors has me conscience of how I ride. I tend to keep my front tires at a lower psi around 30 and the rear motored wheel 5-10psi higher. I have great handling but Im no where near as confident or aggressive as I was with a skinnier and a higher psi tired. The hookworks looks like they are made out of harder yet stickier compount and it seems like you could literally log 1000s of miles before you even have to consider checking the the tread or consider replacement. The big apples have cause my bike to develop a death wobble at low speeds. Going 13-15mph and lightly releasing my grip on my handle bars they almost instantly start tremors in my handle bars. When I used 1.90 slicks this occured at mayb 19-20mph. They say that the wider footprint of the Big Apples decreases the rolling resistance. I noticed if the tire pressure on them is to low you do loose top speed and acceleration is a bit sluggish.

 

[Dee Jay]

bigger wheels have their big disadvantages though...

Hi wojtek.

What disadvantages?

The only disadvantage of bigger wheels at the front that I can see is limited turning range, wheels hitting the legs. But he can install range limiting hardware. Everyone and their grandpas knows tight turns at high speeds on trikes is not a good idea. Maybe on dirt, but on asphalt is suicide :lol: hell they even warn you on their website ha ha! but people do it anyway. :lol:

 

[docnjoj]

The suspension is nice and really helps the ride comfort and cornering on rough roads as you can lean and unload the inside front wheel so it floats over bumps. I do have to agree that you really have to lean a lot in hard corners and I have gone over a couple of times. To really corner fast on a trike you need a very low CG like Matt's or Doc's but that brings out other problems like being invisible to cars and to make the suspension work you do need some ground clearance. I raised mine to get better visibility and to see better but it does compromise cornering a bit. I just have to go slower. The ultimate is truly a tilting trike or velo. Drymer anyone?
otherDoc

 

[liveforphysics]

bigger wheels have their big disadvantages though...

Hi wojtek.

What disadvantages?

The only disadvantage of bigger wheels at the front that I can see is limited turning range, wheels hitting the legs. But he can install range limiting hardware. Everyone and their grandpas knows tight turns at high speeds on trikes is not a good idea. Maybe on dirt, but on asphalt is suicide :lol: hell they even warn you on their website ha ha! but people do it anyway. :lol:

Bigger wheels on a trike or kart is different than a bicycle. The kart sits up higher, the COG (center of gravity) raises, and you can't take corners as quickly.

 

[docnjoj]

bigger wheels have their big disadvantages though...

Hi wojtek.

What disadvantages?

The only disadvantage of bigger wheels at the front that I can see is limited turning range, wheels hitting the legs. But he can install range limiting hardware. Everyone and their grandpas knows tight turns at high speeds on trikes is not a good idea. Maybe on dirt, but on asphalt is suicide :lol: hell they even warn you on their website ha ha! but people do it anyway. :lol:

Bigger wheels on a trike or kart is different than a bicycle. The kart sits up higher, the COG (center of gravity) raises, and you can't take corners as quickly.

+1 to bigger wheels raising the C/G LFP. Unless the trike tilts :lol: Mine only tilts if I exceed the suspension travel and go over. then I guess it is a 'tilted trike"
Deejay: This grandpa likes to corner fast but "age doth make cowards of us all"!
otherDoc

 

[Dave Sloan]

After reading http://www.hellbentcycles.com/trike_projects/Recumbent%20Trike%20Design%20Primer.pdf on designs it would appear that the front suspension is the best option. What keeps me back from this kind of bike is the lack of adjustments for city and trail driving. At faster speeds you want to be lower to the ground with a longer wheel base. At slower speeds you want to be higher up for vision with a shorter wheel base for maneuverability. I have not seen a trike like this but would think that it could be built with an actuator between the lower fork to the back wheel and the bottom frame. Of course a chain tensioner would be a challenge but it would allow immediate adjustment between low and high speed.