E-Bike Kit for Seattle

[bchaney]

Hey guys, I was just introduced to ebikes by a coworker a couple weeks ago, and now I find myself constantly distracted by reading and researching them. I recently moved to Seattle and my typical commute is only 3 miles each way to a park and ride where I catch a vanpool. I typically drive my car but for such a short trip an ebike seems like a great alternative. Eventually a bike lane will open up to allow me to bike straight to work at 10 miles each way. I could charge my battery at work so this range seems easily attainable. Cost is a major consideration since I've never owned an ebike I can't be sure how much I'll like/use it.

I have an old Trek 1200 aluminum 700c road bike with CrMo front fork that I would prefer to convert to avoid having to buy anything new. I know that a steel frame MTB frame is recommended. Would this bike be dangerous or completely out of the question for conversion? I weigh about 170. I could get torque arms and a flat handlebar for it if necessary.

This is my only bike and I'd like the ability to ride it without the motor on so it seems a geared hub may be the way to go. Is this realistic or would the motor still cause too much drag for comfortable riding? Is a geared hub OK for Seattle's hills? I think the largest grades I'd regularly encounter are a short 7-9% and a longer 3-5%. I don't need to go super fast, especially up hills. I'd be fine with 20mph.

After looking at some of the top conversion kits it seems like the MAC from em3ev may be my best option, but if I could get away with anything less expensive let me know. Does the 10T winding seem right? The Bafang or GBK from greenbikekit or bmsbattery seem interesting, but the shipping is more than the kit itself so it doesn't seem like a good value. There's a front drive 16T 350w MAC kit on sale at em3ev, do you think that would work?

I'm leaning towards a LiFePO4 battery pack due to it's longevity. 48v or can I get away with less?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Marin]

You seem to have a good handle on your needs and requirements, they are both reasonable to achieve. I have found that out of all the stuff I have bought for ebiking that grin has been the best quality. Look them up if you haven't yet, the ezee and bafang motors might interest you.
When you get set up I hope the park and ride has a good lockup.

 

[LockH]

Welcome. "I could get torque arms..." Watt??? ALARM! How could ANYbuddy NOT have torque arms??? (Electrics = FULL TORQUE at ZERO RPMs ie when starting up...)

Otherwise, carry on! The Trek w/CoMo sounds like "good stock" to work with.

(Others here may qualify watt I have said above.)

Cheers

 

[usasearider]

Yes, The Mac 8 turn motor is an excellent choice for all around "light" E-bike experience. The 10 turn is super torquee but noticeably slower on the street when dealing with cars. I have been running Lifepos on my first 4 ebikes, and they have been very reliable and long lasting...4 years Now? However, now, I have become a big fan of lithium Nickel manganese.
Samsungs inr 18650 25r have a good reputation, less capacity than Cobolt, but with a higher amp drain tolerance. lithium Nickel and cobolt are Soo much lighter than Lifepo. Lighter Geared Motors, and a light battery make for a super "light" and agile bike. I'll be buying my next "upgraded" Mac 8 motor from EM3ev with a 9 fet 4110.

 

[emco5]

.... moved to Seattle.... and I'd like the ability to ride it without the motor on so it seems a geared hub may be the way to go....I'm leaning towards a LiFePO4 battery pack due to it's longevity..

Clean Republic in the SODO district of Seattle sells a 350 watt geared front hub with LifePO4 battery. According to CR, a few of the local messengers are using it and they do the hills. http://www.electric-bike-kit.com/

A posting about it at BikeForums... https://tinyurl.com/zt6q9pm

 

[dogman dan]

For your current needs, and future needs that seem to always end up riding up hills on longer rides on the weekend, a 500w rated rear geared hub motor will work fine, like the Mac. 10 t a good choice of wind,, not slow, but not fast either. Low end of the middle rpm for hubmotors. Good for large wheels.

Rear motor, and a torque arm, fine on an aluminum frame.

There is a damn good vendor close to you though, Grin Technology in Vancouver.

Because the motor still weighs about 10 pounds, you might find yourself riding using at least enough assist to cancel out that weight. No drag, but you will feel 10 pounds on hills. Once you adjust to having a motor, you will find you can ride with very low assist on the flat, use plenty on hills, and still get a great ride with plenty of exercise. A kit with multiple levels of assist is good for this, so you can ride in low power mode when you want more workout, or slower ride to stretch the battery farther.

 

[APailthorp]

I work in Seattle, park my mid motor e-bike in a building right next to Seattle E-Bikes down by Centurylink Field, a great shop to see neat stuff in (but more spendy than my budget).

Be happy to chat about what you're up to and show you my bike in person if you want to grab coffee in Occidental Square sometime.

Oh hey, look there is a Seattle meetup, meeting happening tomorrow. I doubt I'll make that meeting, but maybe another in the future.
https://www.meetup.com/Seattle-Electric-Bikes-Meetup/

 

[bchaney]

Wow thanks for the warm welcome and all the advice. I found out my Trek 1200 only has a 126mm rear dropout width so I'm not sure I could fit the rear hub MAC without some modification or a new bike. I'm leaning pretty heavily towards the 350w front kit mostly because of the cost - looks like it'd be about 320 shipped to my door and will fit the bike I already own. The cheap Cute and Bafang kits from GBK or BMS are about the same price after their outrageous shipping charges but it sounds like the MAC is more powerful. Do you think I'll be disappointed by this kit for my needs? The rear kit is $135 more plus maybe a new $100 bike and a compatible cassette. Are there other similarly priced kits that I should consider?

I looked up the ezee suggested by Marin but it's more expensive than the MAC 350w. I will look into the Hilltopper suggested by emco5.

I will definitely get a torque arm or 2, LockH.

usasearider, I am tempted by the L-ion because they're smaller and less expensive than the LiFePO4s. I will look into the 8T and the other battery chemistry types that you suggested.

dogman dan, I looked at the Grim site and they have some solid products. Unfortunately I can't justify spending that much on my first ebike just because I'm not sure how much I'll use it. I may buy a torque arm from them though.

APailthorp, I live in NE Seattle but if I'm in either area sometime soon it'd be great to see your bike or that shop. The coworker that introduced me to ebikes got his at radpowerbike in Ballard. Sounds like there's a pretty big ebike community here, cool.

 

[APailthorp]

If you want to go super cheap, I'll sell you my used 26" eZee front geared motor, controller, manual "clutch" (cut off brake thumb lever) and pedelec sensor setup for $100. You can see a picture of it here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=84505

It is 100mm quick release compatible, and has an anti torque plate that matches the fork I took it off of (not sure if the connects are standard).

The 20A controller will take 36V but not 48V.

Newer hub motors are better, but this is still very serviceable and is gathering dust in my garage right now.

 

[dogman dan]

Did not realize the trek bike has such a skinny frame.

Grin does have the thin motors for folding bikes.

Btw,, notice the lack of ads on this site? Grin pays for that. 8) But yeah,, till you get to the need a 12 step program for it like us,, a less costly first e bike makes sense.

Which brings me to,, get a cheaper bike to modify, this try. One thing I type to noobs over and over and over. Don't ruin your favorite bike with a motor.

 

[teslanv]

I'm in Bellevue if you want to test ride a few different set-ups. I have DD Hubs, Geared hubs, and mid drives at various power levels. Also happy to chat ebike tech with you.

Bring your Trek and I'll give it a thorough review.

shoot me a PM if interested.

 

[bchaney]

APailthorp, that could be a good option. Do you know what eZee motor it is? My current bikes wheels are 700c so I would have to get a new wheel and swap the motor into it.

dogman, I'm beginning to think a cheap mountain bike may be the way to go. I found a 93 Raleigh MT500 for sale, it's one of their "technium" frames with some aluminum but steel rear triangles and seat tube. Rigid suspension. Decent candidate?

teslanv, PM incoming.


Comparing the costs of some options:

MAC 500w rear - $456 kit shipped, $15 7spd freewheel, $80 bike, $330 battery = $881 total
MAC 350w front - $321 kit shipped, $330 battery = $651 total
eZee from APailthorp - $100 kit, $50 wheel, $20 spokes, $50 LBS labor, $330 battery = $560 total


The front hub motor options are just so much less expensive I'm still trying to convince myself that I could get away with one.

 

[Ykick]

My coworker in NYC (soon to be distant memory) bought a RadRover based partly on my suggestion. Pretty good OTS (off the shelf) eBike. Lotsa nice features that will be difficult if not impossible to recreate on a DIY conversion.

I’m a “convertor” myself but if I didn’t wanna mess with that I’d definitely give Rad’s a serious look…

teslanv would be a very good way to explore your options as well.

 

[APailthorp]

APailthorp, that could be a good option. Do you know what eZee motor it is? My current bikes wheels are 700c so I would have to get a new wheel and swap the motor into it.
...
eZee from APailthorp - $100 kit, $50 wheel, $20 spokes, $50 LBS labor, $330 battery = $560 total

The front hub motor options are just so much less expensive I'm still trying to convince myself that I could get away with one.

I think it is 350W, but I've seen it pull more on my CA.

I don't think this motor is worth rebuilding into a new wheel. I haven't put tons of miles on it, and ran it for a couple of weeks before I took it back off, but it is not new, has al corrosion pocks. Get a tiny new front hub in a nice wheel and experiment with that. You seem interested in a tuned approach vs. big hammer, I bet you'd have a lot of fun with a new 350W. Your next system can be phase runner, two hubs, your 350W front and a mid, etc.

 

[bchaney]

I think I've decided that the 350w front MAC kit will be best for me, since I already have a bike I like that it will fit. Now I need a little help with the battery. I was originally thinking LiFePO4 because of the life cycle, but the Li-Ions seem to be smaller and less expensive so I'm tempted to try one. I've read the LiPos are even less expensive but the fire danger is a dealbreaker since I want to be able to leave the battery charging unattended and be able to charge at work without burning down my office. I'm currently looking at eBay seller sun-thing28's batterys since they seem to be the best price and I'm not in a rush. The Li-Ion description says that it should not be used for a motor over 500w. The MAC is called 350w but with 48v and a 25A controller I guess it could go up to 1200w. Do you guys think the Li-Ion would work for the 350w MAC front kit?

48v 12Ah Li-Ion - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiynrXI267RAhVH8mMKHWCGDhwQFggoMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F48V-12AH-Battery-Li-ion-Battery-Aluminum-Case-BMS-Electronics-Charger-Recharge-%2F132032987507&usg=AFQjCNHjWjZtmMhBAqFWjVZBDyGiteSyhA&sig2=F8HRx0tk5iPpEizaPIncMQ&bvm=bv.142059868,d.cGc

48v 15Ah LiFePO4 - https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwi2_OO0267RAhUUl34KHQ6gBboYABAG&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESIuD2NFKEndL1Ag2W6i-eoiRqb4QTLyGfZxWzwaZvRmvLeaY&sig=AOD64_0wlo_YfREgskKcrLBcEPOQoBwj8g&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwjj-d60267RAhUG-GMKHfQTCAcQvhcIIA&adurl=

 

[ScooterMan101]

The first battery link, battery will, Not , work . it is the Typical .. E-Bay/Ali cheep ( not really in dollars, cheap in materials) , weak only 15 amp continuous not good enough battery .
And the second link, I will not even waste my time looking at each one, you can bet they are all the same low quality packs. Don't waste your time.

Li-Ion is good, most places are using them now, Li-Ion 18650's .

You are planing on running your 350 watt front Mac at 48 volts and 25 amps ?? ( 1200 watts )

Don't unless you get the best battery you can get, like a battery that has at least 5 parallel strings, better 6 parallel strings. ( 13s 5p or 13s 6p )

The Mac , and you, will benefit from getting a Cycle Analyst. Ask the place you get the Mac from which one is good enough for you.