E-bikes not allowed on bus-mounted rack

[swbluto]

Of course it's heavily used here, and buses need to generally be on time due to the long rainy season. Throw a few wheelchairs and a few bikes into the mix for each bus and the whole system would really suck. Serving special interests has a place in society, but should never be to the detriment of the masses, especially when it comes to transit. Mass transit needs to be a well oiled on time machine that people can rely on or they won't use it. The things mentioned can only be a detriment to overall service and costs.

Yep, especially true for heavily used transit systems. However, if we restrict the passengership to those who simply walk, what's the 'effective service area'? When walking distance is used as the criterion, you're limiting yourself to people who live within whatever an acceptable walking distance of the bus line is (In my area, that seems to be about a quarter mile.). If somehow other transit modes are mixed in, you can substantially increase the service range. Let's say, parking lots are provided (Which they are in my city). Then people can drive to the bus line and use it. If somehow bicycles and other vehicles could be brought on, then the effective service range can be substantially increased. However, if this is how a majority of the passengership would use it, then there would be obvious problems with the increased overhead to accompany transport of all the extra vehicles. So what can one do? You could lock up your bicycle at the transit center, but then that reduces the destination service range to walking distances.

I think, ideally, the city would have some kind of bicycle rental program. That way, one could use a bicycle once they arrived at their destination. Since this is an e-bike forum, one would naturally suggest rental e-bikes. If rentals could be used at the destination, then the effective service range could be substantially increased and, likewise, the potential service pool could be substantially increased and passengership may increase. However, I think the rentals would have to be 'nearly free' in terms of usage costs in order to encourage people to use them in place of other transit modes (like a car) on a mass scale. Of course, since the city would be administering the program, the bikes would have a lame speed of 15 mph. But hey, that beats walking at 3.5 mph.

One thing I like about my scooter is that it folds up quite compactly and I can easily integrate it with bus service and place it between my legs (Though I avoided it altogether today for a 14 mile trip across town because I didn't want to pay the fare, lol), but this is admittedly doable because the bus systems aren't heavily used. If they were packed on a regular basis, I think I could easily say "forget it". Now if the seats were designed around fat people...

 

[SoSauty]

If I'm not mistaken, the Federal law reads to define an e-bike of less than 750W and incapable of 20+mph as; a lo-speed assist powered bike that is to be treated as a "non-motorized vehicle." Bans against motorized bikes do not apply to electric commuter bikes. Seems to me they are in conflict with the Federal law. They may have a weight limit and ban petrol powered bikes, yet should not show prejuduce against lo-power assist bicycles.

Nethertheless, continue to tread respectfully as the poloticians have lots more power than the people these days. In the end, what they say, goes.

 

[999zip999]

I live in new here in so.cal. I only see 24v or 36v 500w bikes running on the streets. But my bike is the only one the bus at 58 lbs. it about the limit for the bus bike rack. And some have rusted out and many racks have been replaced, so be careful with the weight.

 

[Lock]

Good of your to write that letter Ultraman! On a related note (maybe) with regards to the new Bicycle Station at Union Station here is the response to my query about whether they welcomed ebikes:

Re: Toronto Bicycle Stations
Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:18 AM
From: "bicycle sta tion" <bicy cles tation@tor onto.ca>
To: "Lock"
Hi Lock

Thanks for your inquiry. We do indeed have outlets, however only bicycles with an electric motor addition are allowed. Scooter ebikes do not fit in our facility.

Hope that answers your question,
Kate

Bicycle Station at Union Station
City Of Toronto
Transportation Services
20 York St.
416 338-3666
bi cyclest ation@to ronto .ca
toronto.ca/cycling/bicycle-station

http://www.ebikeriders.com/messages/boards/thread/9425352/0#36694596

LocK

 

[John in CR]

Apparently everyone, including most of us, are prejudiced against those scooter looking things with pedals. Personally, I want to get one and toss the lead, add lithium, and two high voltage hubbies with tiny wheels. The performance should catch everyone by surprise, including many motorcycles I still wouldn't try to call it a bike.

 

[amberwolf]

Next some will want wheelchair lifts and special areas on the buses to accommodate wheelchairs.

All buses here in Phoenix have had that for at least 25 years that I know of, and probably closer to 30-35, at minimum since many of the buses back then were already old.

As delays go, these create much more delay than anything else (up to several minutes per chair per stop that one enters or exits, as it requires the driver to get up and secure/unload them.

Bikes on the racks take about 15 seconds extra on average depending on the skill of the rider. Frequent riders get so good at it that I've seen a 3-second load (or unload) by one person, and 5-6 seconds for many. Takes longer than that for the other people to get on and pay their fares. (especially the ones counting pennies in)

They also require that regular passengers give up their seats when a wheelchair boards so that they can fold the seat up and use that space for the chair. Some have dedicated spaces for the chairs that can be stood in when no chair is present, others have the folding seats. The old accordian double buses have a folding *bench* which means that for one wheelchair at least four people have to give up the seat. Not a lot of those buses still running, though. Mostly the micro buses with itty bitty seats and no real space to stand.

What about some extra wide seats for the obese, and seats with extra leg room for very tall people?

Haven't seen that, but they'd have a tough time doing that on most of the buses we have here now. They don't even fit normal height/width people, and I'm average height and relatively skinny, and can barely fit in the seats. My knees hit the seats in front of me, which on many buses for some sections face each other in pairs (which is REALLY REALLY annoying--I HATE staring into someone else's face, since they have zero desire to converse, assuming they even speak the same language).

I dont' know how the many obese people that ride can handle it, having to sit straddling at least two seats (sometimes three).

 

[purplepeopledesign]

Seems to me that if you can remove the battery pack it is no longer electric, but a bicycle carrying a motor as cargo.

ensen.

 

[Ultraman]

Seems to me that if you can remove the battery pack it is no longer electric, but a bicycle carrying a motor as cargo.

Ya, I agree with this and similar statements earlier in the thread. If the accommodation's already been made for bikes via a rack, and if you take off the battery, it's not really an electric bike anymore. My problem is with the rigid drivers who learn about a new rule and REALLY want a chance to enforce it. I could stand there saying "It's not an electric bike without the battery," and he could say "Yes it is," and I could say "No it isn't," but he holds the power unless I have something to trump him. Hence the letter.

The larger issue of making room and time for bigger, slower, older or otherwise less able riders on public transit is distinct. Different societies will spend money and time to bend to accommodate all. I'm happy enough to sacrifice some of my convenience to let someone who's less average than me take advantage of a system that's subsidized by our taxes, especially since it's often the only option people have. I don't see it as a slippery slope into wasting time and money to take care of everyone. I think systems such as this tend to reach an equilibrium if the demand becomes to big (I think that's one of your points, John), and alternative systems get established to suit the "special needs" group.

 

[spinningmagnets]

"...but a bicycle carrying a motor as cargo..."

"motor?..what?....OHHHH...that thing?, no no no,...uh...its a generator...to charge up my cell phone and laptop while I'm riding. Here, let me plug in my pocket headlight to the socket, and spin the tire...see?...voltage comes out!

 

[Ultraman]

Apparently everyone, including most of us, are prejudiced against those scooter looking things with pedals. Personally, I want to get one and toss the lead, add lithium, and two high voltage hubbies with tiny wheels. The performance should catch everyone by surprise, including many motorcycles I still wouldn't try to call it a bike.

Oh, and I also have one of these scooter deals. Never tried to soup it up though. The chassis is strong, but the fairings and plastic components tend to be pretty cheap and I'd worry about bringing mine over 50km/h without some upgrades, at least with the breaks. We use a lithium battery, but the stock controller and geared motor are the limiting factor for speed.