E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[cruzxia]

Rix

You could try pre warming the bike, if it is stored in a room at say 85f over night, then the battery will warm through.
If you ride hard the current draw should keep it warm. Just don't stop for coffee along the way.

If your battery wont discharge when cold, it wont charge either. Are you charging in a warm room?
It is possible that the controller was to cold with the wind chill factor, some of the components are rated -25c to +125c
I looked a similar battery datasheet. They claim it should work to -30c on discharge, and -10 for charging.

cruzxia

 

[dh-paule]

Hi Rix,
48.171,8km is that true ?
Did you go around the globe ?

 

[Hyena]

I noticed some stuff inside of the controller that I haven't seen on my quest for knowlege search...
I am talking really thick and wide oscilation solder paterns on the traces that I haven't seen anywhere else.

You mean this ?



Different people use different wire or copper to beef up traces. The majority of wire used in most electrical applications uses cable made of multiple strands of thin wire for greater flexibility. For higher current applications where flexibility isn't such an issue (or breakage a concern with regular movement) few number of larger size strands are used, often even a large single core. Most lower powered controllers use single solid core piece of copper, these use 2 single cores, twisted together and then soldered on. That's what gives it that appearance. Sorry if I ruined your fun in thinking it had some special properties

On a full charge after 6 miles, my battery was hitting the LVC ...
Temps ranged from -9F to -11F or -21C to -24C.

Damn man that's seriously cold!!
As others have said to you charge in a warmer environment before setting out ?
Also I'm curious whether you monitored the voltages on the CA and if so did it start out with the normal voltage you'd see on a full charge and cut off at the normal sort of LVC you'd expect ? Also did it sag badly from the get go or just rapidly lose capacity ?
The survival blanket probably wouldn't have a huge effect in those sorts of temps. If you were really serious about riding in those conditions I'd be looking at wrapping the battery in a 12v electric blanket (I think I've seen small pet ones - they'd be ideal), then a thin foil outer layer to keep the heat from being sucked away straight into the side covers/frame. With a 12v DC-DC converter you should be able to keep the battery nice and warm and get much more range. Certainly the minimal amount the electric blanket draws would offset the huge reduction in capacity you're seeing now

 

[Rix]

Hi Rix,
48.171,8km is that true ?
Did you go around the globe ?

Yah I put alot of mile on my bomber in the last 7 months. LOL! Thats the OD in my truck it wasn't my CA, I used that to show outside temp at the location where I took the pic of the Bomber next to the frozen reservoir.

Cruzxia, I keep and charge my bomber in the bedroom of my house with the thermometer set at 72F or 23C. I think when I first left the house it was fine for a few minutes while I was taking it easy on the icy roads. But once the battery got as cold as the outside ambient temp, I started hitting my CA LVC (69V) after about 6 miles and that wasn't WOT circumstances. At just past 7 miles there was nothing. Now when I say nothing I mean my display was showing 230-235 watts WOT and then on again and off again. The LVC was doing what it was supposed to do, just wasn't noticable because there is alot of power at 230 watts anyway. Changed my LVC on the CA to 67 which is what I think the LVC on the BMS is. Using barely any throttle, current shot up to 680 watts breifly and the voltage dropped down to the LVC after 300-400 meters or so and power was completely shut off. I think thats what happend because the CA screen had no dispaly. So off went the key and I pedaled my butt home. BTW great work out with a motorcycle tire on the back. Anyway I got it home and plugged in the charger. After 4hrs, the charger finally shut off and CA displayed 87.1 volts. 87.4 is usual norm. Checked it today and the battery setteled like normal at around 81 volts. After a couple of more days, the battery should be at 80.1 to 79.9. Glad to know that the battery is rated for -30C. I had a 6 degree margin of error before the battery was too cold. Based on what you said about the battery data sheet, I am going to dispute that it works well at -30C. I am not saying the battery doesn't work, I am saying it doesn't work very well for very long. At -30C, IMO, I don't think anybody will get even half the range they get in the 15-30C (50-90F) temperature range.

Hyena, looking at the pic of the soldered traces you have posted, just like you said, that looks some like some .035 (maybe .045) copper wire twisted together and flashed with solder on to the board. It's an excellent solder job done by hand. Mine didn't look like that at all. It was thicker, wider, and perfectly uniformed bead. Imagine the best gas tungsten are weld bead (AKA) tungsten inhert gas bead you have ever seen on aluminum and change that to solder. If there is copper underneath all of that solder, its not visible. Next time I have the cover off of the controller, I am taking a pic and posting it becuase I must sound like a retard trying to explain it and I appologize to you guys for that.

Rick

 

[dh-paule]

Hi Rix,
48.171,8km is that true ?
Did you go around the globe ?

Yah I put alot of mile on my bomber in the last 7 months. LOL! Thats the OD in my truck it wasn't my CA...
Rick

boahh... you got me

 

[ManxE]

Yeah - noticed my Bomber battery performs like 5h1t in the cold ... I'd be interested to know what LiFePO4 is like in general in these conditions. Have to say that after a good few miles (6+ and use of regen) the battery warms up and performance is good.
Might try and use the regen more in the cold and see if this improves performance quicker...

I am finding the poor performance at as high as 0-4 celsius, Rix.

 

[Rix]

Yeah - noticed my Bomber battery performs like 5h1t in the cold ... I'd be interested to know what LiFePO4 is like in general in these conditions. Have to say that after a good few miles (6+ and use of regen) the battery warms up and performance is good.
Might try and use the regen more in the cold and see if this improves performance quicker...

I am finding the poor performance at as high as 0-4 celsius, Rix.

Thanks Manxe for the info. Prior to this ride, the coldest ride I had was about 6 degrees above freezingi or 3C. I notice a a decrease in power and range, but not huge. And yes it performed like 5h1t for me too. Not as 5h1tty as the other day at negative -24c, but 5h1tty just the same. The ride I had at -24c was moslty flat, only one hill and I used the regen on the down hill side. Maybe if I could have had a car tow me with my thumb on the regen it would have worked better :lol: . Just joking. I spoke with Dlogic, he has ridden his bomber in -17C, he said that he probably lost about 50% of his range as well. So my 66% estimate is probably close to spot on given I don't pedal as much as he does and I am 15 KG heavier body weight wise. Yep the cold sucks

Rick

 

[Hyena]

Nearly time for me to post another picture of my fighter at the beach hey Rix ?

Speaking of which I forgot to spam my 2012 year in review video here the other day so here it is:
I believe it's already on the stealth facebook page!
(watch in HD as the youtube compression was a bit savage on the 12 minute clip)
http://youtu.be/qJF7L0Xs82s
[youtube]qJF7L0Xs82s[/youtube]

 

[Rix]

Nearly time for me to post another picture of my fighter at the beach hey Rix ?

Yes you do Jay, because the weather here blows. In the states, we have this Corona beer commercial on TV and basically it tells everybody to find their beach, fly a kite, and drink Corona beer. None of those commercials show someone freezing their ass off in front of a frozen reservoir drinking beer though. The closest they come to that is a ski lodge with an outside bar balcony and a couple of homos drinking beer with a girl. On a better note, it finaly got above freezing yesterday. 34F or 1C. It was a heat wave. People were out walking and jogging like it was the first day of spring. I didn't ride. $hit hit the fan at work and I stayed late. Watched your video again. It sure is a great video, especially for those of us stuck indoors with cabin fever. Please keep them coming.

Rick

 

[Hyena]

Stealth Electric Bikes: F*%k yo car

 

[Rix]

Outstanding work Jay. Your fighter was made to ride over junkers lik that. How is the 4065 treating you? You still running a 26 on the 4065?

Rick

 

[dh-paule]

...my 2012 year in review video here the other day so here it is...

cool video
great stuff

 

[Kepler]

A few more mods to the Fighter.

Firstly, the oil is out of the motor and re packed with grease. I couldn't stop the slight weep of oil getting onto rear brake and couldn't be bothered investing any more time in this.

So to the next experiment. Pedalec. Nothing new here in general but I must admit I have read very little on the effect of Pedalec on a relatively high powered bike.

Installation was quite straight forward with the magnet ring sandwiching nicely on the Schlumpf crank. Still used the standard sensor bracket in conjunction with a spacer plate and good quality double sided tape.

Made the necessary wiring additions to the controller and added a brake switch just incase the pedalec ended up trying to throw me under a bus.





Re programmed the controller for 1000W max so nothing was going to happen to violently and set the PAS to the slow setting within the software.

So now to testing.

I have a 3 speed switch set to 30kph, 40kph, and 50kph respectively. Leaving the switch in the slowest setting, headed off for a first test. First impressions? Not to bad. Power came quite smoothly and the bike accelerated to 30kph in a nice controlled manor. Stop pedaling and the motor shut down in about 0.5 of a second.

For the motor to start, it took a full rotation of the crank to have it kick in so safety wise, it felt ok.

Next test was to bump the current limit back up to where it was at 1700W. This proved to be uncomfortably quick in its reaction and basically provided very little speed control. It was either off or up to what ever the speed limit switch was set too.

So back to around 1000W as this felt Ok as far as being usable. The pedalec does modulate throttle with cadence however, even very slow cadence will force the controller to full throttle. For this to work better, I need have the level of cadence more variable and more proportional to speed. The magnet ring I am using has 12 magnets. My thoughts are by reducing the number of magnets, I will achieve a better cadence to throttle ratio for the setup.

So plenty more experimenting required but in general, the pedalec felt quite promising and I quite liked the feeling of super legs as you pedalled along. I can see that I need to be able switch the pedalec off at handlebars for certain conditions and just use the normal throttle however I also need to get the power setting back up to 1700W and still have the Pedalec operate in a smooth controlled manor.

I have also purchased V3 Cycle Analyist for the Fighter. I got this primarily for active motor temperature management but an keen to also experiment with how the CA handles PAS.

If anyone with pedalec experience can chime in with some advice or their experiences, it would be greatly appreciated.

So why put pedalec on a Stealth Fighter? 2 reasons. The first is that I want try and comply more closely to local ebike legislation and have more chance of providing a convincing case should I get picked up on the bike. Second reason is I want to better understand pedalec characteristics for new commuter build that I have in the planing stages at the moment.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Nice mods Kep. The PAS would also come in handy over really gnarly stuff where it's hard to keep a steady hand on the throttle.

So I've moved to Canberra permanently for work now, and WOW! The trails around here are awesome. I really need to get an action cam to show off some of this stuff.

I went for a ride up a trail that runs parallel to the Murrumbidgee River. Didn't get any shots of the trail, but here's a few shots of the river at one point where I stopped.

Sorry for the crappy quality...took them on my phone.

When I got back I tried to adjust my front wheel axle spacing as the front disc was rubbing. Went to undo the nut, and it went all squelchy. Turns out I've striped the inside of the Hex nut.

And yes, I was trying to turn it clockwise to undo.

Now I can't get it off at all! Anyone got any ideas?

And anyone know where I can get another through axle for this fork? Would any of these fit the RST Storm forks? http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=598

Cheers

 

[full-throttle]

Now I can't get it off at all! Anyone got any ideas?

Is that a grub screw on the dropout?

 

[full-throttle]

I tried to adjust my front wheel axle spacing as the front disc was rubbing

Um.. that is NOT how to align disc calliper.

If the mount is post style you can move the calliper left to right. If it's an IS style then use shims. Axle spacing is fixed - 110mm on 20mm dia axle.

 

[Hyena]

Next test was to bump the current limit back up to where it was at 1700W. This proved to be uncomfortably quick in its reaction and basically provided very little speed control. It was either off or up to what ever the speed limit switch was set too.

This has been my experience as well - too twitchy and "digital" in feel. I think they work well on a low powered bike where it makes little difference to acceleration and torque if you give it 30% throttle or 100%, but with a controller putting out decent current they're not real smooth.

I can see that I need to be able switch the pedalec off at handlebars for certain conditions and just use the normal throttle however I also need to get the power setting back up to 1700W and still have the Pedalec operate in a smooth controlled manor.

In the V3 you can program throttle ramping I believe so this might work well. Also in the controller software you can set up the PAS ratio. Have you played with this ?
Torque sensors are the best way to go but most i've seen can't be used in conjunction with the schlumpf unfortunately.

So why put pedalec on a Stealth Fighter? 2 reasons. The first is that I want try and comply more closely to local ebike legislation

Bolting your gear on a more subtle platform might be a good start
Dont forget that although the new 250w laws are now in you can still choose to go with the previous 200w law, which is less restrictive on the PAS and 6km/hr throttle limit despite the generous extra 50w allowance...

The PAS would also come in handy over really gnarly stuff where it's hard to keep a steady hand on the throttle.

Actually that's probably the last place you'd want to use it - atleast on the types I've used. There's usually a slight delay after you stop pedalling before the motor cuts, which could get you in strife. See below pics!

When I got back I tried to adjust my front wheel axle spacing as the front disc was rubbing. Went to undo the nut, and it went all squelchy. Turns out I've striped the inside of the Hex nut.
Now I can't get it off at all! Anyone got any ideas?

I don't know about hex nut but I think there's a hex on your whole bike! You really have had just about every possible thing go wrong that could!!

If you want to butcher it I'd dremel a slot in it and whack a big flat blade screw driver in there. Does the other side unscrew as well ? They do on my marzocchi's and chances are any old 20mm axle will fit. If you can just hold a grip on that side you might be able to unscrew the other end then just push the axle out.

I went for a ride up a trail that runs parallel to the Murrumbidgee River. Didn't get any shots of the trail, but here's a few shots of the river at one point where I stopped.

Looks like nice scenery but this ain't the national geographic thread, all pics posted should include your bike
Like so
(from my ride today out along the cliffs of Bundeena )

 

[Rix]

Jay and CD, beutiful scenery. I am Jelouse. Here its just fuqn cold all of the time.

And yes, I was trying to turn it clockwise to undo.
Now I can't get it off at all! Anyone got any ideas

Go to the hardware store and buy your self an "easy out" kit. Thats what they are called here in the States. Instructions are simple. You could also try a self tapping sheet metal screw thats slightly bigger than your rounded out/stripped allen nut hole. Just screw that in clockwise until it bottoms out agains the cap and keep turning. That could brake it loose. Jay already mentioned the other method.

When I got back I tried to adjust my front wheel axle spacing as the front disc was rubbing. Went to undo the nut, and it went all squelchy. Turns out I've striped the inside of the Hex nut.

You don't adjust your brake alingnment buy loosing the axle. You loosen the caliper mount, and wiggle it around until there is little to no drag on the disk which you check by spinning your wheel. Then tighten the caliper mount up with out moving it from that spot. After, check your brakes to make sure they are working properly. What full throttle said about spacing being fixed is not just correct for your fork's 20mm thru axle, its the industrial standard for all forks with 20mm axles. Hope this helps 8) .

Rick

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Thanks for the advice guy's. I realise adjusting the axle is not the normal way to fix brake rubbing issues. I find sometimes if I just undo, then redo the axle it can stop the brake rubbing. I tend to notice even minor rubbing that doesn't really justify adding shims, etc, and usually retightening the axle is enough.

Does anyone KNOW if those 20mm axles will fit? i.e. are all threads for 20mm through axles on forks made to the same ISO standard or something?

Cheers

 

[full-throttle]

Not all 20mm axles are interchangeable. Some have extra features. The length can also vary. You need to get it out first - no one unfamiliar with the fork will be able to tell you.

Did you see my comment re: grub screw? You might need to undo that before loosening the axle. If in doubt ask John.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Did you see my comment re: grub screw? You might need to undo that before loosening the axle. If in doubt ask John.

Yes saw your comment. Unfortunately it is the grub screw thats been damaged. Sorry I'm so inacurrate... ...never had a through axle setup prior to this bike.
I tried undoing the axle anyway, but without being able to loosen the grub screw, it ain't budging.

I've asked John...so hoping he has the answer.

Thanks agian for the helpfull replies all.

Cheers

 

[Hyena]

Unfortunately it is the grub screw thats been damaged. I tried undoing the axle anyway, but without being able to loosen the grub screw, it ain't budging.

Are you sure you're not still getting your terminology mixed up ? You've stripped both the axle end nut and the grub screw ??

So did you use a crappy allen key to try and loosen the grub screw, strip it and then give up and try and undo the end nut anyway, wrecking it in the process ? Or did you flog out the end nut because you'd forgotten to undo the grub screw, then went back and chewed up the slight twisted, tightly bound grub screw ? :lol:
If the grub screw is stuck and enough is protruding then do as above and cut a slot in it. Grub screws usually aren't under alot of tension though so hopefully you can get it out without too much effort. Or before trying that that you could try hammering a slightly oversized bit into the rounded out socket. I've done this with stripped screws on hub motors covers before when all else has failed - if your using metric the nearest size imperial one can usually be belted in. That's assuming they're cheap, soft shitty screws - which they probably are to round out in the first place.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Are you sure you're not still getting your terminology mixed up ? You've stripped both the axle end nut and the grub screw ??

Pretty sure. Only one side is wrecked and it's the side I took the photo of with the locking symbol, which is a small end nut that locks the axle in place.

So did you use a crappy allen key to try and loosen the grub screw, strip it and then give up and try and undo the end nut anyway, wrecking it in the process ? Or did you flog out the end nut because you'd forgotten to undo the grub screw, then went back and chewed up the slight twisted, tightly bound grub screw ? :lol:

Nope, none of that, not sure where you got that idea from. I simply tried to undo the axle, as I have a million times before, by undoing the locking nut first. It wouldn't budge, and when I applied more force the allen key wrecked the nut head.

If the grub screw is stuck and enough is protruding then do as above and cut a slot in it. Grub screws usually aren't under alot of tension though so hopefully you can get it out without too much effort. Or before trying that that you could try hammering a slightly oversized bit into the rounded out socket. I've done this with stripped screws on hub motors covers before when all else has failed - if your using metric the nearest size imperial one can usually be belted in. That's assuming they're cheap, soft shitty screws - which they probably are to round out in the first place.

Great suggestions, will try them.

Cheers

 

[deecanio]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Downhill-off-road-electric-bike-/221176905515?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D5027839664402114763%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D221176905515%26

just out of curiosity, what do you guys make of this?




There is a genuine stealth on ebay, i'm guessing from the UK rep, price?.......... £9,499 i'm a fan of the stealth, but come on nearly £10k?? lol

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Stealth-Bomber-eBike-Electric-Mountain-Bike-MTB-Cycle-XC-MX-Downhill-FS-/221165947146?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D5028145040503262733%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D221176905515%26

 

[remf]

Don't think that's from any rep, more like an opportunistic unauthorised reseller. It's probably £2000 more than the actual price and doesn't include delivery!