E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[biknut]

It's not going to hurt anything if you adjust the charger amps a little bit up or down from the stock setting.

I thought the bms is what turns off the charger when the battery current get's close to zero.

What I've noticed about charging is at first the voltage is low, and the current his high. As the battery charges the voltage rises, and the current gets less, and less until it's almost zero, and then the charger shuts off.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

thx for that video....but now the question is, how much amps can i get for free?
what did i have to monitor to prevent any damage to the charger?

Take as much as you dare... :lol:
Seriously though, it just comes down to heat mostly. Turning a lower rated charger up will make it get real hot if you push things too far. Once you can really feel the heat coming off the shell, it's time to turn it down IMO. Also keep in mind, while increasing charge rate will decrease charging time, it will also degrade your battery faster after a certain point, so it's a trade off.

ITtd be great to learn what that 3rd pot is for (eg. fine tune or final charge adjustment), and which pot it is. I'll not change it, after I know which one it is.

CD, I watched your charger adjustment video on youtube. Thanks. Three questions please:

Thanks Emmett. I'll try and keep responses short as to not derail this thread from Stealth too much, although I failed to point out that this is one of my old Stealth chargers and I've been using it to charge 12S LiPo for years now without issue.

1. Finding Amps pot: I presume the AC input Watts stays constant if you adjust the ouput volts POT because the output Amps will auto adjust to keep the same Watts. On the otherhand, amps adjust must change in the input Watts - correct?

Yeah, from what I've seen, adjusting volts on these and similar chargers does not change overall watts, and adjusting amps does, so you presume correct.

2. Adjusting volts pot: Both my Li-Ion chargers output no volts when I disconnect the battery. So I guess the DC-1 display and controller do not draw enough current to make my chargers go live on their output. So I'm still unsure of the best process to adjust my voltage pot. I guess I must use a volt meterwhile it's charging. Correct?

That's interesting. Something else could be up there as the charger typically needs to keep things flowing to allow the BMS to do it's job of balancing the pack which doesn't draw much current at all. Using a multimeter while charging isn't going to help much with adjusting volts as the charger automatically matches it's volts to the battery level while charging. You'll have to figure out a way to get the charger to come 'live' and adjust the volts from there. One option might be to disconnect the battery, but not the charger and turn the throttle to draw power directly from the charger. The harness I made you would allow you to do that without having a battery connected.

3. My wall socket power meter displays a "Power factor". Says 55% 241V 2.5A and 331W when powering my Stealth charger. 241 * 2.5 *0.55 = 331W. So (reading this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor) my meter shows real Watts and the apparent Amps. Seems odd mine shows apparent amps. How does yours work?

Not sure how mine works TBH...it's just from Aldi. :lol: But real watts sounds like the thing we want for this job.

I thought the bms is what turns off the charger when the battery current gets close to zero.

This is the opposite behaviour to what I've seen/understand...at least from the earlier Stealth models. On mine the BMS uses the charger to pulse charge lower cells. You can hear this as the charger clicks on/off when the BMS is balancing.

What I've noticed about charging is at first the voltage is low, and the current his high. As the battery charges the voltage rises, and the current gets less, and less until it's almost zero, and then the charger shuts off.

Yes, but it's not linear like that. Most chargers will keep a constant current flowing until they approach the last 10-15% of the charge state, then taper off from there. So as long as you adjust the amps before that taper point, you are ok.
On a lot of these chargers I believe the 3rd pot can also adjust this taper point to come in sooner or later.

Hope that helps everyone.

Cheers

 

[Kepler]

Be very carefull playing around with charger pots in a trial and error mannor.

My recomendation is never adjust the Amp output pot to a higher value. The IGBT's will go unstable if set to high and easily blow.

Also when adjusting the voltage, check the rating of the of the output capacitors. a 48V charger probably has 50V rated output capacitors or at best, 63V caps. However, you will most likely be able to adjust the voltage above the capacitor's rated voltage. Go above the rated voltage by 5% and there is good chance the capacitors will blow. And believe me, they go with quite a bang :lol:

 

[Emmett]

Be very carefull playing around with charger pots in a trial and error mannor.

My recomendation is never adjust the Amp output pot to a higher value. The IGBT's will go unstable if set to high and easily blow.

Also when adjusting the voltage, check the rating of the of the output capacitors. a 48V charger probably has 50V rated output capacitors or at best, 63V caps. However, you will most likely be able to adjust the voltage above the capacitor's rated voltage. Go above the rated voltage by 5% and there is good chance the capacitors will blow. And believe me, they go with quite a bang :lol:

Never? Not even for a few seconds to work out which pot is which??

What's an IGBT?

I have a Stealth supplied charger outputing 59V now and want to back it DOWN to 49.5V.
It presently consumes 332W input when charging, and on the cover it says it's configured for 5A output.
It also runs very cool when charging.
At the lower voltage, I want it to output as many amps as it safely can. So consuming 330 to 350W input.

Any thoughts please?

 

[Kepler]

A short period is ok while you figure out the pot to adjust and which direction to turn it.

Going down in voltage will be fine and you will end up with an increased amp output by default.

IGBT stands for Insulated-gate bipolar transistor. They are the main output transistors for the power supply.

 

[Emmett]

2. Adjusting volts pot: Both my Li-Ion chargers output no volts when I disconnect the battery. So I guess the DC-1 display and controller do not draw enough current to make my chargers go live on their output. So I'm still unsure of the best process to adjust my voltage pot. I guess I must use a volt meterwhile it's charging. Correct?

That's interesting. Something else could be up there as the charger typically needs to keep things flowing to allow the BMS to do it's job of balancing the pack which doesn't draw much current at all. Using a multimeter while charging isn't going to help much with adjusting volts as the charger automatically matches it's volts to the battery level while charging. You'll have to figure out a way to get the charger to come 'live' and adjust the volts from there. One option might be to disconnect the battery, but not the charger and turn the throttle to draw power directly from the charger. The harness I made you would allow you to do that without having a battery connected.

My mistake. As soon as you mentioned using the LiPo wiring harness I realised my error. I had the chargers plugging tinto the frame, battery removed, and key turned on, but nothing was plugged into the other side of the frame's XLR connector! Stupid of me! So I used your wiring and sure enough the DC1 reads 59V. So I can now easily adjust the volts and shall do soon.
Thanks CD!

A short period is ok while you figure out the pot to adjust and which direction to turn it.
Going down in voltage will be fine and you will end up with an increased amp output by default.
IGBT stands for Insulated-gate bipolar transistor. They are the main output transistors for the power supply.

If I go down in voltage (pot adjust) and the amps comes up automatically, then are you suggesting that the "amps" pot is actually an adjustment for output watts? Therefore indirectly amps adj.
Thanks Kepler.

 

[Kepler]

If I go down in voltage (pot adjust) and the amps comes up automatically, then are you suggesting that the "amps" pot is actually an adjustment for output watts? Therefore indirectly amps adj.
Thanks Kepler.

I suppose you could also call it a Watts adjustment because if you adjust amps, the volts stay fixed and as such the Watts adjust also. However, you will find that adjusting the volts does not adjust the output Watts which is why the output amps does move with the voltage adjustment.

Keep in mind some chargers may react differently though. This is just what i have observed with the various chargers I have adjusted and repaired over the years.

 

[biknut]

I confess up front I don't know much about this subject, but I have close friends that are very high level.

We did some testing on 2 chargers for my Storm eBike. In the top center you see the stock Storm 2 amp charger, and just below it is a 5 amp aftermarket charger I bought on the internet. Both charge to 42v. To the left is a 36v 8.8 ah bottle battery made with 10s 4p Samsung 2200 mah 18650 cells. I wanted a faster charger for my Storm, but after trying my new 5 amp charger I was perplexed to find that it didn't charge any faster than my stock 2 amp charger.

One luxury Storm owners have that we Stealth owners don't have is access to thousands of other owners that are very active on social media. At the same time I was trying to speed up my charging, about 100 other owners were trying to do the same thing. One owner figured out that the stock bms would only allow a charge rate of 4 amps.

Armed with this knowledge I ask my friend to throttle my 5 amp charger down to 4 amps which he was successful in doing. This is the test table he made to make the adjustment. The adjustment was successful, and the charge time went from 5 hours to 2 1/2 hours. During this testing is when I observed this relationship between the voltage, and the current.

 

[ridecharly]

After 2 Solid weeks of research i give up. haha. i have seriously been on a 14 DAY internet bender without getting an inch closer to the problem. hopefully somone can help me.

iv been looking for a more performance enhancing ebike since i got the 1500w 48v dillinger kit and converted my old aus post bicycle into a cool as it gets ebike that actually went 45km and blew my mind... anyway that soon become slow and boring so i was looking high and low for a bomber... and i thought id struck gold (well i still think i have) at the lloyd police auctions a few weeks back my uncle found a stealth bomber in perfect condition at a rediculas price, so i snapped it up got it sent down to melbourne and still havent ridden it..its killing me. as the police auctions buy as is no guarentees policy, who can i complain to... ? im so excited im shaking and i put the key in turn it around expecting the instant satisifaction and ........ it asks me for an unlock code!?!?!?... and my heart is instantly broken. and i can not find any information on this anywere at all.... its actualy driving me mad. i dont know wether to spend 500AUD and get a new controller or what i should do..... can anyone at all help me please. ........ please tell me this is easy fixed and i can join the elite and ride along side you legends. lol

cheers.

 

[Jimboyr6]

Haa this is a new one no doubt someone out of us can help what number is it or year ?
Im betting on allex,or maybe rix,
U had side panel off unplug main battery then plug back in ?

 

[one4torque]

The new stealth bombers require a code to unlock the CA.
I had to call stealth to get my code after I proved I was the owner.

You will have to call Stealth for this code.

There have been many SB's stolen.... hopefully this was not one of them.

GL.

 

[one4torque]

Good news for me a stealth dealer started up near me.... And they have bikes in stock. Have to stop by this weekend. I'll price out a replacement battery for sb178, and or get with my man Alex for a batt.

 

[Emmett]

I suppose you could also call it a Watts adjustment because if you adjust amps, the volts stay fixed and as such the Watts adjust also. However, you will find that adjusting the volts does not adjust the output Watts which is why the output amps does move with the voltage adjustment.

Keep in mind some chargers may react differently though. This is just what i have observed with the various chargers I have adjusted and repaired over the years.

Kepler, All clear. I'll give it a go.

At the same time I was trying to speed up my charging, about 100 other owners were trying to do the same thing. One owner figured out that the stock bms would only allow a charge rate of 4 amps.

TV, great to know, thank you. I'm my case I have no BMS. Just 12S4P LiPo.

 

[biknut]

TV, great to know, thank you. I'm my case I have no BMS. Just 12S4P LiPo.

What kind of caveman are you?

 

[Emmett]

What kind of caveman are you?

Late model Homo Erectus. Lean mean killing machine. Some thinking but like keeping it simple. Mostly instinct driven. Skeptical about any BMS.

 

[Allex]

Acting as a human BMS + having a regular BMS is better than having only one BMS, this is how I like to think :wink:

 

[Emmett]

CD and Kepler, I tried to adjust my Stealth charger. No joy.

Good news: I discovered that the pot on the right is the one that adjusts Watts/Amps. It's super sensitive. While charging the battery, I turned that pot until the input Watts (AC socket digtial meter) went up a little to 350. Was 332W. Adjustable range is 120W to 650W.

Bad news: Voltage does not seem to be adjustable. With no battery connected and just the bike controller and DC-1 display running (using the wiring harness made by CD), the DC-1 says the volts is 59.2V and it stays there! The middle and left pots don't change the voltage during that test. If I connect a 12S1P LiPo battery to the controller plug, then the DC-1 shows the correct 48V. So the test seems valid. Just the pots do nothing.

The pots look to be connected to stuff on the little circuit board. So I guess they have some function.

All three pots have a turn range of 7/8th turn. I tried to set these mystery pots back to where they were which was 5/8th turn in/clockwise. ope those two are not super sensitive too, and I've changed them a tiny bit and stuff something up.

Got any ideas?

 

[Rix]

CD and Kepler, I tried to adjust my Stealth charger. No joy.

Good news: I discovered that the pot on the right is the one that adjusts Watts/Amps. It's super sensitive. While charging the battery, I turned that pot until the input Watts (AC socket digtial meter) went up a little to 350. Was 332W. Adjustable range is 120W to 650W.

Bad news: Voltage does not seem to be adjustable. With no battery connected and just the bike controller and DC-1 display running (using the wiring harness made by CD), the DC-1 says the volts is 59.2V and it stays there! The middle and left pots don't change the voltage during that test. If I connect a 12S1P LiPo battery to the controller plug, then the DC-1 shows the correct 48V. So the test seems valid. Just the pots do nothing.

The pots look to be connected to stuff on the little circuit board. So I guess they have some function.

All three pots have a turn range of 7/8th turn. I tried to set these mystery pots back to where they were which was 5/8th turn in/clockwise. ope those two are not super sensitive too, and I've changed them a tiny bit and stuff something up.

Got any ideas?

The problem with these chargers is they have a "fault safety switch". So until you put a load on the charger, it won't show you crap volt charge/load because the swithc isn't activated. I ran into this problem trouble shooting my Bomber charger back in April of 2013. So a here is a question for the smart guys, to adjust the hvc on the volt pot, does the charger need to be engaged and charging a battery? Can the fault safety switch be deactivated to get a multi meter reading?

@CD, thanks for the vid. I see part of my question is answered, however, is there a way around adjusting volts with out a load on the charger?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Got any ideas?

Try spinning up the wheel with just the charger connected, but no battery to generate a load, then adjust the pots to see if that moves the voltage at all.

@CD, thanks for the vid. I see part of my question is answered, however, is there a way around adjusting volts with out a load on the charger?

No worries, hope it might help others also. I guess the challenge is this requirement for a load with the newer chargers. See above and try that....who knows, it might work.

Cheers

 

[Rix]

Be very carefull playing around with charger pots in a trial and error mannor.

My recomendation is never adjust the Amp output pot to a higher value. The IGBT's will go unstable if set to high and easily blow.

Also when adjusting the voltage, check the rating of the of the output capacitors. a 48V charger probably has 50V rated output capacitors or at best, 63V caps. However, you will most likely be able to adjust the voltage above the capacitor's rated voltage. Go above the rated voltage by 5% and there is good chance the capacitors will blow. And believe me, they go with quite a bang :lol:

Pinging on what John said about not increasing amps, I think slower charging lipos increases their cycle and usable life span. Over 3 years ago, Jay and I built up an ebike in a Hotel Cabin and rode Yosemite. Jay used six 6S 5000mAh for a 12S 15Ah pack. Bulk charge to 49 volts. This pack is still in use. Between April and November, my uncle commutes on my home built to Hill Crest Country Club for mowing duties 4 days a week. He never discharges below 42 volts or use more than 600wh per discharge cycle out of the pack. And he rides with my Dad some weekends as well. My uncle also has a zippy pack made of 8000mAh banks that plugs in direct from his fanny pack for extended ranges. Anyway the Yosemite pack has over 700 charge discharge cycles, pulling 2C max. It might be over 800 now, I will have to check next week. Its still pretty good and only sags 3 volts HOC. When new and throughout the first year, it sagged 1 volt so its getting tire an will be replaced shortly. About every 20 cycles or so, I will top off the battery with the BC168, cells are really close. I attribute the longevity of this pack to slow bulk charging 1/3C, not charging to peak most of the time, and not discharging below 3.5 volts per cell, and not using more than 80-85% of its capacity.

 

[one4torque]

Rix== 'the CELL whisperer'

Good stuff

 

[Rix]

Rix== 'the CELL whisperer'

Good stuff

Not sure about that :lol: , I just followed the advice both Kepler and Hyena gave me about lipos way back in the day and my experience has been good with them. Anyway if you go back to pages 70-95 in this thread, you can see by the questions I asked and the comments I made that I didn't know shit about "E" anything. Lots of patience from members schooled me along the way, and when I am in a position to pass something on to others that may or may not know, I do it.

 

[Emmett]

I attribute the longevity of this pack to slow bulk charging 1/3C, not charging to peak most of the time, and not discharging below 3.5 volts per cell, and not using more than 80-85% of its capacity.

Understood Rix. Thanks.

CD also advised me about staying within the range of 24 to 49x with 12S LiPo cells.

By my rookie e-biker calcs, for my 10Ah 1P packs, 0.3C equates to 3A per pack. So 12A using 4P. Pumped using 2S, so 50V (max) that's 12x50 = 600W. So any bulk charger pumping under 600W isn't stressing my batteries beyond 0.3C. Am I correct?

In what typical/average air temps has your uncle been riding and charging that 3 hrs old LiPo pack? I've read that excess heat is a cell killer, during discharge, charge and even storage.

 

[Emmett]

Got any ideas?

Try spinning up the wheel with just the charger connected, but no battery to generate a load, then adjust the pots to see if that moves the voltage at all.

CD, thanks for the idea, but no joy.

With the charger pumping the load to drive the rear wheel, I tried changing those other two pots (not the watt/amps one) and there was no change in voltage reading on the DC-1. Also no change to the watts: With any setting for these other two "mystery" pots, the DC-1 battery watts consistently peaked at around 300W and the AC input watts peaks at about 370W (where I set it).

So I put those pots back where they originally were (5/8th turn in/clockwise) and put the cover back on. It appears that the Stealth supplied charger is stuck on 59V. Actually my multi-meters say it's 58.4V.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

CD also advised me about staying within the range of 24 to 49x with 12S LiPo cells.

I think you mean 42 to 49V...you should never go down to 24V.

CD, thanks for the idea, but no joy.

That sucks. The 2 old Stealth chargers that came with my 2011 era Fighter have been some great versatile chargers with loads of room for adjustment to anything below 60V.

If anyone no longer has a need for an older Fighter charger, I'm sure there would be a good deal of interest here.

Failing that, a BMS battery charger is my next go to option.
I'm currently eyeing off the 240W charger that's only $15.
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charge...battery-ebike-charger-ecitypower-charger.html
It would easily crank up to 300W and can manage 75V for 18S LiPo, so it's my pick for that job.

Cheers