E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Rix]

I attribute the longevity of this pack to slow bulk charging 1/3C, not charging to peak most of the time, and not discharging below 3.5 volts per cell, and not using more than 80-85% of its capacity.

Understood Rix. Thanks.

CD also advised me about staying within the range of 24 to 49x with 12S LiPo cells.

By my rookie e-biker calcs, for my 10Ah 1P packs, 0.3C equates to 3A per pack. So 12A using 4P. Pumped using 2S, so 50V (max) that's 12x50 = 600W. So any bulk charger pumping under 600W isn't stressing my batteries beyond 0.3C. Am I correct?

In what typical/average air temps has your uncle been riding and charging that 3 hrs old LiPo pack? I've read that excess heat is a cell killer, during discharge, charge and even storage.

Emmett you are correct, thats about .3C charge rate. and as CD mentioned, we know you meant 42-49 volts, typo. So, I got suspension question for you.
I got a BOS Void rear shock for my up and coming Alpha build. This is a 900 dollar shock, but I got it for way less. Its a 267mm unit with 3.50 stroke travel. It didn't come with a spring or shock mounting hardware. I am fabricating my own mounting hard ware using Delron bushings and some aluminum spacers, however, I have ran into a spring problem. Checking BOSMTB website, they want over 200USD for a spring and another 50 for mounting hardware. So I ordered a 600# RockShock coil thats rated for a 10" shock with 3.25 inches of coil stroke travel. Now my question, when I put that spring on, I will ave to adjust the spanner on the shock tower to work with a coil that is about 10mm shorter. No problem there as I have about 50mm of spanner adjustment thread on the body, will coil bind be an issue?

 

[Kepler]

I don't stuff stuff around with ebike chargers too much anymore. Most of my charging requirements are under 60V so I just use a Lab power supply for all my charging needs.

Using a Lab power supply, charge rates are fully variable at 0.1 increments. They also taper off the current as they reach set voltage. These Lab power supplies typically do up to 5A which is usually enough for our charging needs.

So lets say you want an end voltage of 54.4V and you want to charge it at 4A, just dial up the voltage through the coarse and fine adjustment knobs. Then once plugged in, adjust to the desired current the same and way leave to pack to charge. You will see the current start to taper off it reaches the end voltage until it just sits there at zero amps and your selected end voltage. Nice big digital displays so you know exactly what is going on.

Also handy for balancing packs. I am not a big fan of BMS's. As far as I am concerned most cheap BMS's kill more batteries than they save. With most of the latest 18650 packs I have made, I just add balance leads so I have access to each parallel group of cells. The latest 18650 cells hold great balance and rarely need any conditioning but if a parallel group or groups go out of balance, it is easy just to top up the low group with the Lab supply. Just dial in the appropriate voltage and change at a low rate through the balance lead. And of course the balance lead can be directly connected to an Adaptto if you are lucky enough to have one for the altimate solution.

If you are a serious ebike tinkerer, I think a Lab supply is one of your most important tools. Allows you test controllers and motors without punching massive current through them (via a battery) should something not be quite right.

Lots of options for Lab Supplies and they aren't too expensive either. This is the one I currently use.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adjustab...474268?hash=item3f3cc4dd1c:g:~vwAAOSwEK9Tt5-t

 

[Rix]

I don't stuff stuff around with ebike chargers too much anymore. Most of my charging requirements are under 60V so I just use a Lab power supply for all my charging needs.

Using a Lab power supply, charge rates are fully variable at 0.1 increments. They also taper off the current as they reach set voltage. These Lab power supplies typically do up to 5A which is usually enough for our charging needs.

So lets say you want an end voltage of 54.4V and you want to charge it at 4A, just dial up the voltage through the coarse and fine adjustment knobs. Then once plugged in, adjust to the desired current the same and way leave to pack to charge. You will see the current start to taper off it reaches the end voltage until it just sits there at zero amps and your selected end voltage. Nice big digital displays so you know exactly what is going on.

Also handy for balancing packs. I am not a big fan of BMS's. As far as I am concerned most cheap BMS's kill more batteries than they save. With most of the latest 18650 packs I have made, I just add balance leads so I have access to each parallel group of cells. The latest 18650 cells hold great balance and rarely need any conditioning but if a parallel group or groups go out of balance, it is easy just to top up the low group with the Lab supply. Just dial in the appropriate voltage and change at a low rate through the balance lead. And of course the balance lead can be directly connected to an Adaptto if you are lucky enough to have one for the altimate solution.

If you are a serious ebike tinkerer, I think a Lab supply is one of your most important tools. Allows you test controllers and motors without punching massive current through them (via a battery) should something not be quite right.

Lots of options for Lab Supplies and they aren't too expensive either. This is the one I currently use.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adjustab...474268?hash=item3f3cc4dd1c:g:~vwAAOSwEK9Tt5-t

Funny you mention this John, I just contacted Grin Cycles and asked about their 72V satiator charger for the same reason. You can control charge amp rate and voltage output cut off with .01 volt. The 72V is said to be good from 36V to 103V. There is an issue with them at the moment but will be for sale when resolved. So, your variable supply unit, are they made in say an 80v 4amp model?

 

[Kepler]

The problem with these chargers is they have a "fault safety switch". So until you put a load on the charger, it won't show you crap volt charge/load because the swithc isn't activated. I ran into this problem trouble shooting my Bomber charger back in April of 2013. So a here is a question for the smart guys, to adjust the hvc on the volt pot, does the charger need to be engaged and charging a battery? Can the fault safety switch be deactivated to get a multi meter reading?

Sure can Rix. Just need to add a momentary switch with a 1K resistor in series across the normally open contacts of the main output relay. Make sure you don't put it across the coil of the relay though. You will see a contact diagram on top or on the side of the relay case to guide you which contacts to connect too. If not, Google the relay model number for a diagram.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Thanks for the suggestion Kepler. If I didn't already have 3 charging solutions for under 60V, I would seriously be considering one of those Lab type PSU's.

The Satiator sounds like the best option for flexible charging solutions moving forward as Rix said. The cheapest Lab style PSU that will do up to 100V I can find is nearly $500. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adjustab...-100V-15A-Heavy-Duty-golf-mete-/272102727441?

Cheers

 

[Kepler]

Agreed, the satiator looks to be ideal. I am tipping it won't be cheap though. I wonder if you can use it as a Lab PSU also. That would be cool.

 

[Rix]

Thanks for the suggestion Kepler. If I didn't already have 3 charging solutions for under 60V, I would seriously be considering one of those Lab type PSU's.

The Satiator sounds like the best option for flexible charging solutions moving forward as Rix said. The cheapest Lab style PSU that will do up to 100V I can find is nearly $500. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adjustab...-100V-15A-Heavy-Duty-golf-mete-/272102727441?

Cheers

The Satiator is $295.00 USD, I would probably be a little cheaper than the 100V PSU with AUD USD exchange rate being what it is, but not much if you factor in shipping from Canada.

Agreed, the satiator looks to be ideal. I am tipping it won't be cheap though. I wonder if you can use it as a Lab PSU also. That would be cool.

Thats a great question. I going to find PM Justin and find out.

 

[Rix]

The problem with these chargers is they have a "fault safety switch". So until you put a load on the charger, it won't show you crap volt charge/load because the swithc isn't activated. I ran into this problem trouble shooting my Bomber charger back in April of 2013. So a here is a question for the smart guys, to adjust the hvc on the volt pot, does the charger need to be engaged and charging a battery? Can the fault safety switch be deactivated to get a multi meter reading?

Sure can Rix. Just need to add a momentary switch with a 1K resistor in series across the normally open contacts of the main output relay. Make sure you don't put it across the coil of the relay though. You will see a contact diagram on top or on the side of the relay case to guide you which contacts to connect too. If not, Google the relay model number for a diagram.

Thanks for the break down, I got a spare charger I would like to turn down to 49V for my Beta's pack, would be perfect.

 

[Kepler]

The Satiator is $295.00 USD, I would probably be a little cheaper than the 100V PSU with AUD USD exchange rate being what it is, but not much if you factor in shipping from Canada.

I think there would be only $50 in it by the time it is shipped. Not quite apples for apples though. The 100V PSU is rated at 15A and 1500W. That is some serious charging capability. would charge a Bomber in a hour. However I am sure the Satiator has many features as a dedicated charger that PSU can't offer.

 

[Emmett]

I don't stuff stuff around with ebike chargers too much anymore. Most of my charging requirements are under 60V so I just use a Lab power supply for all my charging needs.

Using a Lab power supply, charge rates are fully variable at 0.1 increments. They also taper off the current as they reach set voltage. These Lab power supplies typically do up to 5A which is usually enough for our charging needs.

So lets say you want an end voltage of 54.4V and you want to charge it at 4A, just dial up the voltage through the coarse and fine adjustment knobs. Then once plugged in, adjust to the desired current the same and way leave to pack to charge. You will see the current start to taper off it reaches the end voltage until it just sits there at zero amps and your selected end voltage. Nice big digital displays so you know exactly what is going on.

Wow Kepler, you really made my week. Thanks! I just bought one of those lab PSUs.

The bulk charger dilemma was getting me down. I could see myself spending $100s on various chargers which are generally crappy quality and of dubious function. I had searched a lot (incl PSUs and reading how Li-Ion chargers work) and had no idea that such inexpensive lab power supplies could do constant current with taper off to zero amps at the target voltage. I will use the same unit to drive my BC168 balance charger at up to 300V (with suitable balance wiring). The big display figures and safety protection just put the icing on the cake!

Later I might consider a 100V 1500W unit. But for 12S and learning, this 60V 300W unit is awesome: http://r.ebay.com/qd6GJx

 

[Kepler]

No worries Emmett. Glad i could help.

 

[Emmett]

Thanks for the break down, I got a spare charger I would like to turn down to 49V for my Beta's pack, would be perfect.

Rix, pls let me know if you succeed with Kepler's advice on the relay mod. Since maybe I still can convert my 58.4V Stealth supplied charger down to 49V for a more portable 12S LiPo charger. In case I actually need portability one day, or a fall back solution.

 

[Samd]

Wish I'd seen this a bit earlier. The bms charger is just a stock Kingpan CD.

For the last six months or so most of us on ES Facebook have been using these new ones linked below. I've got so many old laptop chargers and other PSU units around the house that I've got half a dozen of these now. Might even mount one inside my next bike.

They'll even take a floating input voltage so you can hook a solar panel straight up.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/172184344147

There's lots of variants and several good youtubes on them.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/281957104828


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Samd]

Here's a starter. Note there's a potential software trap in the digital ones. I prefer the analog style anyway. Two tiny trimpots. One for current and one for voltage. The detailed control is very good.

https://youtu.be/-kWps5Wpbzo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kepler]

Might give one a go. Can use my PSU to charge anything then. Thanks that Sam...

 

[Emmett]

So, I got suspension question for you.
I got a BOS Void rear shock for my up and coming Alpha build. This is a 900 dollar shock, but I got it for way less. Its a 267mm unit with 3.50 stroke travel. It didn't come with a spring or shock mounting hardware. I am fabricating my own mounting hard ware using Delron bushings and some aluminum spacers, however, I have ran into a spring problem. Checking BOSMTB website, they want over 200USD for a spring and another 50 for mounting hardware. So I ordered a 600# RockShock coil thats rated for a 10" shock with 3.25 inches of coil stroke travel. Now my question, when I put that spring on, I will ave to adjust the spanner on the shock tower to work with a coil that is about 10mm shorter. No problem there as I have about 50mm of spanner adjustment thread on the body, will coil bind be an issue?

Nice work on the custom mount hardware! What are the dimensions of your bushing adapters? I might want to buy a set from you! Since the bushes on my MTB shock use copper sheet around the bolts as a form of shim. Works OK, but teadious for me to remove my shock for servicing.

Re coil bind: your issue, if I read things right, is having a shock with 3.5 stroke and a spring only rated to 3.25". Correct? I wouldn't worry about the position of the shock adjuster nut on the body. What matters is the pitch on the spring and if the coils will lay down on each other. If their specs are correct then you have an issue. Coil bind on a big hit and you could be ejected. If your shock is longer than necessary, then you must fix that anyway else it'll screw up your handling in various ways. But you can shorten the shock via spacer inside in the shaft. Just don't block any ports and think about what you are doing. Reduce the shock's stroke to 3.25" and you're done! But work out the length you need. How far the wheel drops fully down and distance of travel up are critical to handling.

 

[Emmett]

Rix,

It impresses me that your Fighter handles your weight. Makes me feel better that the frame is tough.

I've permanently bent my Fighter around the swingarm pivot point so my rear axle is about 3mm lower on the left side. I presume due to hard sideways hits to the strong wheel. I suppose it's a possible warranty claim, but I don't care enough to sort it out. It's a minor detail. More limiting is the excess lateral and torsional flex in the rear of the bike when riding fast rough stuff, and that cannot be fixed. The root cause is the narrow 68mm BB and resulting narrow awingarm mount. The Schulmpf factor! The Alpha frame looks worse in this regard due to it's longer neck to the BB for a larger front sprocket.

This is my shock: http://www.xfusionshox.com/products/shocks/vector-coil-series/hlr
They offer a really nice spring rate calculator there. It suggested 500 for me, and it's right since I tried a 450 and 550. I got my shock and 450 spring for $100, then bought the 500 and 550 for about $40 each on eBay somewhere.

My original bump stopper got hammered and blew out in no time. So I put a more beefy one in there. You might want to consider doing the same. Get any moto shock bumper with matching ID and trim it down to suit your needs.

To help with your new shock, here are my valving specs. From memory, mine has a 25mm piston and the shims are all 8mm ID. For the heavier bike and hub motor, these settings are way way better than the stock MTB settings!

Comp stock: 3x22.15 20.15 2x18.15 2x10.2c
Comp Mar 2015: 22.15 20.2 16.1 22.2 20.2 18.2 16.2 14.2 2x10.2c (2 stage: softer LS and way stiffer HS)

Reb stock: 16.2 16.2 14.15 12.2 10.2
Reb Mar 2015: 16.2 16.1 12.1 16.2 2x14.2 2x12.2c (2 stage: again way more progressive).

Get settings in like that and you WONT need your super slow rebound bleed (clicker). You will be able to have your control in woops, and still great rear traction elsewhere. Win-win.

 

[Emmett]

Here's a starter. Note there's a potential software trap in the digital ones. I prefer the analog style anyway. Two tiny trimpots. One for current and one for voltage. The detailed control is very good.

That's an awesome tip, thanks Sam!

74.0V should be no problem. Spec to 15A input and 600W. For just $18 !

Just need to make a little box around it, with suitable connectors for quick insert/remove. Maybe XLR in, and cable out to another XLR.

 

[Rix]

Rix,

It impresses me that your Fighter handles your weight. Makes me feel better that the frame is tough.

I've permanently bent my Fighter around the swingarm pivot point so my rear axle is about 3mm lower on the left side. I presume due to hard sideways hits to the strong wheel. I suppose it's a possible warranty claim, but I don't care enough to sort it out. It's a minor detail. More limiting is the excess lateral and torsional flex in the rear of the bike when riding fast rough stuff, and that cannot be fixed. The root cause is the narrow 68mm BB and resulting narrow awingarm mount. The Schulmpf factor! The Alpha frame looks worse in this regard due to it's longer neck to the BB for a larger front sprocket.

This is my shock: http://www.xfusionshox.com/products/shocks/vector-coil-series/hlr
They offer a really nice spring rate calculator there. It suggested 500 for me, and it's right since I tried a 450 and 550. I got my shock and 450 spring for $100, then bought the 500 and 550 for about $40 each on eBay somewhere.

My original bump stopper got hammered and blew out in no time. So I put a more beefy one in there. You might want to consider doing the same. Get any moto shock bumper with matching ID and trim it down to suit your needs.

To help with your new shock, here are my valving specs. From memory, mine has a 25mm piston and the shims are all 8mm ID. For the heavier bike and hub motor, these settings are way way better than the stock MTB settings!

Comp stock: 3x22.15 20.15 2x18.15 2x10.2c
Comp Mar 2015: 22.15 20.2 16.1 22.2 20.2 18.2 16.2 14.2 2x10.2c (2 stage: softer LS and way stiffer HS)

Reb stock: 16.2 16.2 14.15 12.2 10.2
Reb Mar 2015: 16.2 16.1 12.1 16.2 2x14.2 2x12.2c (2 stage: again way more progressive).

Get settings in like that and you WONT need your super slow rebound bleed (clicker). You will be able to have your control in woops, and still great rear traction elsewhere. Win-win.

Thanks for all the info, will see what we get for rear spring coil clearance. I have experienced coil bind before and know the difference between it and just plain ole bottoming out. As far as my home made Heim Joint goes for mounting hardware, my ID on the shock eye top and bottom is 13mm, shock eye width is 9.8mm, shock bolts are 8mm, and spacing on the frame and swingarm shock mounts are 29.1mm top and bottom. So thats what I am working with. As far as the Alpha's bottom bracket goes, yes its the same at 68mm. I wish it was 83mm. But the swing arm tabs that mount to the bearing are a bit thicker than the fighter. Even though narrower, It will probably prove to be tougher. As far as your bent frame goes, contact Joe at Stealth. Stealth is very serious about their frames and life time warranty for the original owners and would no doubt be interested in seeing the issue you have. Wait until your winter though. Yah, my fighter has proven to be tough. I have been crossed up on landings quite a few times, and to my knowledge, my frame is still straight and true.

 

[Jimboyr6]

The Satiator is $295.00 USD, I would probably be a little cheaper than the 100V PSU with AUD USD exchange rate being what it is, but not much if you factor in shipping from Canada.

I think there would be only $50 in it by the time it is shipped. Not quite apples for apples though. The 100V PSU is rated at 15A and 1500W. That is some serious charging capability. would charge a Bomber in a hour. However I am sure the Satiator has many features as a dedicated charger that PSU can't offer.

This guy on ebay makes chargers to ur spec with 3 stage switch for 50 80 100% charges i may get one yet
Cycles satiator 72v is 345usd shipped to uk

 

[Rix]

The Satiator is $295.00 USD, I would probably be a little cheaper than the 100V PSU with AUD USD exchange rate being what it is, but not much if you factor in shipping from Canada.

I think there would be only $50 in it by the time it is shipped. Not quite apples for apples though. The 100V PSU is rated at 15A and 1500W. That is some serious charging capability. would charge a Bomber in a hour. However I am sure the Satiator has many features as a dedicated charger that PSU can't offer.

This guy on ebay makes chargers to ur spec with 3 stage switch for 50 80 100% charges i may get one yet
Cycles satiator 72v is 345usd shipped to uk

The thing I like about having a PSU or satiator charger is they are programmable. For instance, my Bomber's battery is different from my Fighter's battery which is different from my up and coming Beta battery which is different from my up and coming Alpha battery. For charge duties, a 100 Volt PSU or the Satiator can handle all, even though the Alpha's charge duties will be handled by the the Adapto Max E. SO I could have 4 chargers for set to my spec, or have one programmable at probably 3 times the price. Of course I would be limited to charging one bike at a time :wink:

 

[Jimboyr6]

Yeah spose for u a satiator is perfect, it's definitely a good bit of kit,i dont think its the fastest charger though 5A
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/charge-simulator.html

 

[Rix]

Yeah spose for u a satiator is perfect, it's definitely a good bit of kit,i dont think its the fastest charger though 5A
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/charge-simulator.html

Yah you are right, the 72V is 5Ah max and the 12-24 is 15ah. Still leaning towards Kepler's solution though except maybe the 100V cd posted a link to.

 

[Rix]

I don't stuff stuff around with ebike chargers too much anymore. Most of my charging requirements are under 60V so I just use a Lab power supply for all my charging needs.

Using a Lab power supply, charge rates are fully variable at 0.1 increments. They also taper off the current as they reach set voltage. These Lab power supplies typically do up to 5A which is usually enough for our charging needs.

So lets say you want an end voltage of 54.4V and you want to charge it at 4A, just dial up the voltage through the coarse and fine adjustment knobs. Then once plugged in, adjust to the desired current the same and way leave to pack to charge. You will see the current start to taper off it reaches the end voltage until it just sits there at zero amps and your selected end voltage. Nice big digital displays so you know exactly what is going on.

Also handy for balancing packs. I am not a big fan of BMS's. As far as I am concerned most cheap BMS's kill more batteries than they save. With most of the latest 18650 packs I have made, I just add balance leads so I have access to each parallel group of cells. The latest 18650 cells hold great balance and rarely need any conditioning but if a parallel group or groups go out of balance, it is easy just to top up the low group with the Lab supply. Just dial in the appropriate voltage and change at a low rate through the balance lead. And of course the balance lead can be directly connected to an Adaptto if you are lucky enough to have one for the altimate solution.

If you are a serious ebike tinkerer, I think a Lab supply is one of your most important tools. Allows you test controllers and motors without punching massive current through them (via a battery) should something not be quite right.

Lots of options for Lab Supplies and they aren't too expensive either. This is the one I currently use.

[urhash=item3f3cc4dd1c:g:~vwAAOSwEK9Tt5-t[/url]

John, think this would work for our ebikes? https://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi10015.html

 

[biknut]

There's a lot of good Stealth's out there, but I guess mine is about the best.