E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[1abv]

Its absolutely true......cool kids don't sleep...

On another note I have discovered that going from 18 to 35 amps does not give me double range.... prob more like 160% or sumthin like that, I have not pushed it to the limit yet...because before when I was close to being out at around 14 amps I would ride like a little bitch until I milked it home where as now I ride like a beefcake because I can.... What i don't have YET!! is range anxiety which is nice

 

[biknut]

On another note I have discovered that going from 18 to 35 amps does not give me double range.... prob more like 160% or sumthin like that, I have not pushed it to the limit yet...because before when I was close to being out at around 14 amps I would ride like a little bitch until I milked it home where as now I ride like a beefcake because I can.... What i don't have YET!! is range anxiety which is nice

I know the feeling. All the good stuff in this town is at least 17 miles away from my house. After getting there I probably want to ride around about 5 or 10 miles, and then I have to have enough power to make it back home. When it's time to go home I hate having to creep along for miles, and miles, so I used to save the battery on the way there. Saving the battery means about 13 mph. That takes forever to get anywhere, but at least I could ride a respectable 30 mph home.

Now I've turned into a gas hog. I pay little attention to the ah meter, or my speedometer. I ride whatever speed feels good. I haven't used more than 25 ah yet, and the power still feels good when I pull back into the garage. This is exactly what I always wanted, range, and speed at the same time.

 

[biknut]

These guys catch on fast. They're using the picture of my bike I sent them on their website, and they added a video of a battery being built.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32921052191.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.20136686FpCgVy&algo_pvid=2872a1a5-fddf-4148-ba45-96d786ef20d6&algo_expid=2872a1a5-fddf-4148-ba45-96d786ef20d6-0&btsid=0ab6d59515820838792996322e7ce3&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

[Rix]

At TV and ABV1, you guys are awesome for reporting your bikes' new battery and keeping this thread going. Now I want to get Bomber 143 back on its feet, and have plans too, maybe sooner than later now.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

...and they added a video of a battery being built.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if that's how they built your battery TV, don't be surprised if it dies soon or ends in a fireball. So many problems I don't know where to start, but the obvious ones are complete lack of insulation between series blocks (relying on just the cell heatshrink) and only a single nickel strip between each series group. Not sure on the thickness, but even if it were 0.3 it would still only be good for 60A Max in that config.
Basically they've built it up to just meet the bare minimum of the advertised specs with zero buffer. One bad spot weld, and the whole thing is toast.
I do hope it works out well for you, but that video basically just confirms years of suspicion based on countless bad experiences with failed batteries... Not my own but others who usually come to me asking me to somehow fix them... The answer unfortunately is almost always no... Can't be salvaged.

Cheers

 

[john61ct]

going from 18 to 35 amps does not give me double range.... prob more like 160% or sumthin like that

You mean Ah don't you?

 

[1abv]

going from 18 to 35 amps does not give me double range.... prob more like 160% or sumthin like that

You mean Ah don't you?

You fancy people and your fancy "Words" and "Terms".........n stuff......

 

[1abv]

At TV and ABV1, you guys are awesome for reporting your bikes' new battery and keeping this thread going. Now I want to get Bomber 143 back on its feet, and have plans too, maybe sooner than later now.

Man right back at ya you have been keeping this alive for years..

Peek-A-Boo!

All the holes in the walls were filled with bees and snakes... Looked like Indiana Jones up in there..

 

[biknut]

...and they added a video of a battery being built.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if that's how they built your battery TV, don't be surprised if it dies soon or ends in a fireball. So many problems I don't know where to start, but the obvious ones are complete lack of insulation between series blocks (relying on just the cell heatshrink) and only a single nickel strip between each series group. Not sure on the thickness, but even if it were 0.3 it would still only be good for 60A Max in that config.
Basically they've built it up to just meet the bare minimum of the advertised specs with zero buffer. One bad spot weld, and the whole thing is toast.
I do hope it works out well for you, but that video basically just confirms years of suspicion based on countless bad experiences with failed batteries... Not my own but others who usually come to me asking me to somehow fix them... The answer unfortunately is almost always no... Can't be salvaged.

Cheers

Cd, you dumb ass, that's not going to happen lol

For one thing that wasn't my battery, that's just stock footage of some generic battery they probably make. And these guys are anal about fire. I couldn't even talk them into putting a 50 amp anderson on the output. They insisted on a 120 because the bms is 100 amp. Who cares that my controller is only 65 amp. You'd be lucky to even get two 120s to fit in there. I had to change it back to a 50 myself. Just to make it a little more difficult they doubled the output wires so there's two 10g, fine stranded wires, with thick super soft insulation on each polarity. Luckily the wire is so fine I was able to stuff both wires into a single lug for a 50 amp Anderson. It's pretty funny when you see the massive cables coming from the battery on one side of the plug, going into two dinky little 10g wires on the other side. I'm a little more worried about those wires actually.

I was just kidding about the da Cd. You're a lot smarter than I am. The problem is you can't help looking at this like every engineer I know. Everybody's crap is crap lol. because you been there, done that. Sometimes it's better to be a little dumb like me, I don't over think it. When I look at what they're doing, I'm thinking they know how to do it a lot better than I do lol. Plus I like machines that make ca chunk ca chunk sounds.

 

[biknut]

Damn it, now I'll be taking the covers off my bike all the time checking the battery, because Cd thinks my bike is going to blow up. :x

 

[biknut]

I'll probably blow it up trying to keep up with this guy. It's amazing how closely matched two bikes can be.

 

[biknut]

I think part of Stealth's secret is the bike looks a lot smaller than it is.

 

[Emmett]

Emmet
There is a small rechargeable backup battery inside the DC1. It may need replacing. Remove the jumper on the back of the DC1 to disconnect the battery and see if that helps. You may need to replace the battery.

Thanks Cruzxia! Tomorrow I'll get in there and have a look. Plan A will be to replace the internal battery. Is this jumper obvious or labelled? Does it disable the internal battery so the DC-1 only requires the primary power source?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Alright TV, calm down...I did say IF that was how your battery was made.

If for some reason the seller has chosen to use battery building footage that doesn't actually reflect how that battery is made then... :lol: why am I not surprised.

Anyway, like I said, I hope it works out for you. At a guess I would say packs built to this standard have about a 50% failure rate after a few years, so you might get lucky. Ironically this is the same standard of quality the stock Stealth packs were back in 2011/12/13 when I bought my Fighter. I lost count how many warranty replacements and fixes that pack had and by the time I had a semi-reliable working pack I lost interest in it's meagre 20Ah capacity and moved on.

I wish there were a reliable battery builder in the US I could refer you guy's to, but I can't think of any. There was a guy on ES a while back doing it, but I've forgotten his name now. I'm sure you could find someone if you searched around, but that's what I would suggest doing next time around rather than going the el-cheapo China route again.

Anyway I realise this probably comes across as self promoting, but I can't/don't build/sell packs outside Australia anyway, so take from it what you will.

Cheers

 

[Emmett]

The problem is you can't help looking at this like every engineer I know. Everybody's crap is crap lol. because you been there, done that. Sometimes it's better to be a little dumb like me, I don't over think it. When I look at what they're doing, I'm thinking they know how to do it a lot better than I do lol. Plus I like machines that make ca chunk ca chunk sounds.

I remember when CD's bike caught on fire a few years back and he posted a video here. I think he wired all his LiPo balance leads in parallel and I guess the aged batteries smoked the little balance wires when the cells in the packs varied with significantly different voltage under load. Am I correct CD? A baptism of fire?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I remember when CD's bike caught on fire a few years back and he posted a video here. I think he wired all his LiPo balance leads in parallel and I guess the aged batteries smoked the little balance wires when the cells in the packs varied with significantly different voltage under load. Am I correct CD? A baptism of fire?

Nope. Was not me, just a fellow ES member I was riding with:
[youtube]gn-MSFksN2k[/youtube]
I never did find out exactly what caused it, but I suspect your on the right path there Emmett. I'm just glad I was carrying a bunch of C02 or it could have ended very differently!

I recommend everyone try at least once to heat up an 18650 or 21700 till it pops. Unlike pouch cells, they don't puff up and slowly burst open, they heat up till they basically turn into little rockets. Each cell!
To get a better idea of what that looks like check out this video:
[youtube]WdDi1haA71Q[/youtube]
^^
THIS! Is why you wanna care about how your battery is made!

Cheers

 

[biknut]

Well lets face it, any battery pack made with hundreds of 18650 cells could fail. Most of the time they don't burst into flames though. I'm thinking this 35 ah pack will have an easy life with 10 parallels. No parallel should ever be subjected to even 7 amps peak. Most of the time probably 5 amps or less. The Sanyo cells are rated 10 amp continuous. Even at top speed they won't have to breath hard.

My chinese 48v 30 ah battery pack in my fatty has a lot tougher life. It's rated for 30 amps. I have a 35 amp controller, and the motor can draw a little over 25 amps. It's only goes 25 mph so most of the time it's full throttle or nothing. The pack gets up to 135 degrees and above in the summer. It'll be 5 years old this year, and still working pretty good, although I'm thinking about replacing it. I think the secret to it's longevity is having a lot of parallels.

My stock bomber battery had 3 good years. Lost capacity in the 4th year, and was ridiculously weak, and saggy in it's 5th year, when I replaced it. If I get 3 good years out of this new battery I'll consider it a success for $1500.

If my bike does go up in flames it's your fault Cd, you jinxed it

 

[1abv]

Mornin!!

 

[biknut]

Fireball
Hellfire
Firefly
Shit Fire
Fire Starter

I've been thinking about renaming my bike

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Yeah, TV, what you say about cell specs and parallel groups is 100% correct. It's not the specs and rating of the cells/battery I'm questioning, it's the construction. As I said, all it takes is one bad spot weld to heat up a cell to the point it starts a fire and with the speed with which they slapped on the meagre 2 spots per cell in that video you wanna hope the BMS detects that cell heating up or voltage drop and cuts the pack before it starts a chain reaction.

Maybe one of these day's I'll order one of these packs for myself just so I can do a tear-down and show you all what I'm talking about instead of just referring all these others who end up becoming my customers.

It's a bit like these guy's that come onto this thread asking about ordering a clone Bomber frame. It might work...for a while, but we all know eventually the chances are it will fail...potentially catastrophically, but who knows...some of them could last people many years or a lifetime, just like these batteries.

All that being said...I get it, a pack from Stealth is at least double that cost and you get the same or less capacity. A Bomber pack from me is typically more than that again, although you can get upwards of 49AH. So I get it that the stupid high costs of these things drives many to China...I do the same with plenty of stuff like tools, computer parts, electronics and car parts, but when it comes to something that can end in a fire I don't like taking that risk. Yeah the cells and parts are all made in China, but it's the construction I am questioning here...I do hope it works out well for you TV, I'm just trying to make sure people are aware of the risks when going down this path.
8)

On another note I'm working on an awesome video showing the best of the last 9 years with my Fighter...might take me a while to put it all together as there is a lot of footage.
The new owner has told me it's amazing and he's having a blast, so at least I sold it to someone who appreciates it.

Cheers

 

[biknut]

I really do appreciate what you're trying to warn us all about Cd. Don't stop. I'm listening even if it doesn't seem like it. 8)

 

[biknut]

Of these two battery packs I have now, the 24 ah, and the 35 ah, if I didn't know anything about either pack except the type of cells used, and that's it, I would say the Sanyo GA cells kick 30Q ass. Hot off the charger both battery's are about the same, but at the halfway point the Sanyo GA battery feels stronger to me.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I really do appreciate what you're trying to warn us all about Cd. Don't stop. I'm listening even if it doesn't seem like it. 8)

Thanks mate...I'll keep blabbing even if no one's listening, that's just how I am. :lol:

Of these two battery packs I have now, the 24 ah, and the 35 ah, if I didn't know anything about either pack except the type of cells used, and that's it, I would say the Sanyo GA cells kick 30Q ass. Hot off the charger both battery's are about the same, but at the halfway point the Sanyo GA battery feels stronger to me.

Yep, to date, I have built every battery using Sanyo GA's. They have been top of the pile for almost 5 years now and still can't be beat for energy density and cost combined even if comparing to some of the new 21700 cells.

Cheers

 

[john61ct]

M36, MJ1, 35E all seem to me just as good or better for longevity in the "energy density" low C-rate category.

Losing 15% or more capacity in the first 150 cycles seems a big downside.

And climbing resistance seems they are not appropriate for the 2+ C-rate discharge use cases, compared to HG2 or VTC6

Of course low pricing may override such issues for many.

 

[biknut]

Yep, to date, I have built every battery using Sanyo GA's. They have been top of the pile for almost 5 years now and still can't be beat for energy density and cost combined even if comparing to some of the new 21700 cells.

Cheers

What I read is that Sanyo was bought out by Panasonic. Looking at videos made by people that do a lot of cell testing, they believe that now there isn't any difference in quality between Sanyo, and Panasonic cells, which tells me they should be pretty good quality.