E-Tourist I (Cargo/Touring Ebike build)

[LI-ghtcycle]

Well, I thought I should start another build thread since the heart and soul of my touring bike will be significantly different than anything I have built previously, and there are two major things about this build.

Priority 1) Build it strong, simple and reliable -

I have been looking into internal-geared hubs such as Sturmy-Archer, SRAM/Sachs and Shimano. For the money, I wasn't terribly impressed with any of these brands, and was concerned about their inner workings and complexity, and was lead to the Nuvinci, particularly the original 350% model that seems to have a very strong track record (yes I know it's only 4 years old, but I know of a shop that hasn't had any returned or needing service in that time either) for both reliability and a wide gear ratio. And for the money I can get a wheel built with a Nuvinci 350 (extra heavy duty cargo bike wheel) and a wider gear ratio than a comparable hub in one of the other companies, and then I have to pay for it to be laced into a wheel. I was at the LBS the other day when a guy on a recumbent came in because the small shifting chain on his Sturmy-Archer had broken, and I wonder how many LBS's around the country would carry anything like that. Granted any failure of the Nuvinci would be much more difficult to repair, and would not likely be supported just about anywhere, but my understanding is they have very little to break, and short of a nasty accident where the Nuvinci hub it's self is broken, they are pretty bomb proof.

Priority 2) Build it from components that can be serviced at most bike shops anytown USA -

I am looking into having either double butted 14G spokes or go with 13G as used by one company (14G are going to be much more available) for a wheel built just for this purpose, I will either buy a pre-built wheel or have a local shop lace up about as strong a wheel as I can get and stay in the 14 - 13G range of spokes.

I am also going to use a single speed freewheel on the Nuvinci, 16T most likely and have a granny ring (probably 20-30 tooth) that will be only for serious hills and or E-Drive brakedowns and a more large (38 - 44 tooth) main sprocket that I would be using the gearing to pedal with the motor 99% of the time anyway. I'm hoping I can use a standard derailer as a tensioner, if not I will get a DH or BMX chain tensioner.

This will NOT be a case where the Nuvinci is part of the electric drive-train. It will be used strictly for pedaling, and the wheel will be turned with a HK 130kV Turnigy motor running at 8 - 10S (testing at 8S first) via belt drive as the build is done in grinhill's MKII build.

Priority 3) Keep the rider and the cargo dry (mostly the cargo, as it's not a recumbent, full coverage fairing isn't practical) -

My first attempt at an enclosed covered cargo touring bike isn't a failure, but needs to address 2 major flaws:

1) Lack of balance! (WAAAAAAAAAYYYYY too back heavy)

2) Lack of maneuverability (Not allowing for normal movement of the bike, i.e. rear wheel not exposed enough to lift and pivot bike from rear wheel)

Ok, so how maneuverable is a 150 lb bike filled with camping/touring gear for a trip across the USA going to be anyway!? It's going to be much more difficult to maneuver than anything that is normal weight, but it should be no less maneuverable than any other touring bike carrying the same weight in touring gear. So far I have succeeded in keeping the back cargo area dry, the front needed a little more sealing, but nothing terrible.

I will be addressing the weight balance issue by using the biggest low riding front panniers I can comfortably fit, and try to keep the denser gear up there and put the bulkier stuff in the back.

So far for this project I have a Silver Tidal Force Frame, Surley Big Dummy Forks, Crow Cycle center stand (the beefiest one with all steel except the aluminum adjustable legs at the bottom) and my next acquisition will be the Nuvinci (hopefully at a discount rate since there is the new 360 to bring it's price down) hub.

I will add some pics later tonight, but right now after taking care of other errands all day, I'm gonna go put my beast together with what I have nearby and ride it!

I'm also trying to think of a fun name to give it, and would love to hear you suggestions!

So far just brainstorming, I have come up with:

Big-E-Bike (as in Biggie-Bike)

Flying-E-Brick

Bike-E-Baggo (like Winnebaggo )

E-Trekker

E-Traveler

Ebike -Trucker

Sur-E-Bike

Help me come up with a better name! :lol:

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok! Pics as promised!

The Mighty Surly Big Dummie Forks! 8)

Not bad eh? I hope 12 inches is enough to get the stem height I want ... not sure might bee too short! :lol:

All the lugs and mounts I could ask for!

And the view from the back, and yes, you saw right, it's got disc AND cantilever mounts! Now I just need a way to make a lever that operates both at the same time!

And here is what I USED to think of a beefy ridged fork. That Trek 830 Cro Mo fork is anorexic by comparison!

Move over Trek, Surly's got something meatier! That fork tube is 1 1/4 inch!

And here is the fork, Tidal Force frame and Crow Cycle Center Stand together (sort of ... :wink

I think i found a name I like, I'm sure it's been used, but I'm thinking "Beast-E-Bike" fits!

That's it for tonight, more tomorrow! 8) 8) 8)

 

[amberwolf]

I am also going to use a single speed freewheel on the Nuvinci,

If you use the 360CVP version, it already has a freewheel built-in, AFAICR. The older N170/171 doesn't have a freewheel.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I am also going to use a single speed freewheel on the Nuvinci,

If you use the 360CVP version, it already has a freewheel built-in, AFAICR. The older N170/171 doesn't have a freewheel.

Ahh good to know, however, I'd prefer the older 350 since it's built to take more torque, and should be cheaper. Unless I can get a better deal on a 360 I guess, but I think the 350 is a more proven design, I could be wrong?

I haven't seen any used of either model for sale.

 

[Rassy]

You stated:

Now I just need a way to make a lever that operates both at the same time!

These dual brake levers would do the job. These from TerraTrike cost a little more than some, but they have the lock button so you can use them as a parking brake. Real handy on a trike, but might be good on a regular bike when parking on a hill:
http://www.terratrike.com/shop/accessories/dual-control-brake-lever/prod_25.html

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

You stated:

Now I just need a way to make a lever that operates both at the same time!

These dual brake levers would do the job. These from TerraTrike cost a little more than some, but they have the lock button so you can use them as a parking brake. Real handy on a trike, but might be good on a regular bike when parking on a hill:
http://www.terratrike.com/shop/accessories/dual-control-brake-lever/prod_25.html

Sweet! I was just kidding, but now that you mention it, lack of brake steer and the parking brake function could be nice!

Maybe I will add some canti's as an "emergency brake" with that dual lever and have some form of low-tech strap that I can wrap on it to have it as a "parking brake".

Great idea!

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Oh I also thought of another name that might actually be more fitting, I'm thinking maybe "Burl-E-Bike" (as in Burly :wink: )

 

[Rassy]

This actually works:

low-tech strap that I can wrap on it to have it as a "parking brake"

My TerraTrike Path came originally with just the front disk brakes, each operated from its own lever, and no parking brake feature. They included a velcro strap to use as a parking brake.

 

[amberwolf]

I used to use a piece of old innertube as a "rubber band" for such things. Now I have a baby carriage type lever for a parking brake on DayGlo Avenger, and on CrazyBike2 it uses a locking lever from a Honda scooter, which rather than a spring-loaded pin that inserts thru the lever and housing, instead uses a rocking latch that hooks into the pulled-back lever. Both are solutions you can actually install into many existing brake levers, though the latter is probably easier to do.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I used to use a piece of old innertube as a "rubber band" for such things. Now I have a baby carriage type lever for a parking brake on DayGlo Avenger, and on CrazyBike2 it uses a locking lever from a Honda scooter, which rather than a spring-loaded pin that inserts thru the lever and housing, instead uses a rocking latch that hooks into the pulled-back lever. Both are solutions you can actually install into many existing brake levers, though the latter is probably easier to do.

Awesome! Thanks AW, I'll be on the prowl for something along those lines at Good Will! (And it JUST so happens that I've been tasked to drop stuff off there tonight! )

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I found just the thing around the house, my grandmother's old wheeled walker with a seat has brakes, and you push the brake handle down, and it's a parking brake! It's really big, so it will take up some space, but I think I will just run it to a "E-Brake" to the rear canti brake! 8)

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Here are some more pics, pathetic lame progress, but progress just the same, I have been concentrating on fixing up other things to sell, and my back has been out since Sunday, so I'm not able to do as much, but here ya go!

Cleaned up a chain and putting together some temporary wheels until I can get mine built.

Got some new cups on the frame, soon I will have the stem, headset and some temporary bars, gonna have the trekking bars on this just like I have on the Muddy Fox, gotta see if I can trade back something with a friend of mine who has my second pair, looks like he might not use them.

Nice little custom freewheel, 12 - 34! 8) Makes the hills much easier. This will be my stand-in until I have the Nuvinci set to go!

Some cheap take-off tires I got at goodwill for like $5 for the set! Perfect road tread. These will be replaced with Schwalbe Big Apples soon.

Hopefully it will be a ride able bike tonight!

 

[Grinhill]

Hey there, looks like you're getting stuck into this build. 8)

I am wondering if the extra weight may cause belt slippage to be even more of a problem than on my bike? More torque would be required to get it moving for sure.

As far as gear ratios for the belt drive go, I think you would be better off going lower than mine, which means smaller than 20-tooth on the front.

Have you considered adding an intermediate jackshaft? That would let you go even lower on the gear ratios, and really give you some pulling power up hills, and it would make it easier to add a freewheel. (Do you have any sketches of belt path & drive mount location yet?)

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hey there, looks like you're getting stuck into this build. 8)

I am wondering if the extra weight may cause belt slippage to be even more of a problem than on my bike? More torque would be required to get it moving for sure.

As far as gear ratios for the belt drive go, I think you would be better off going lower than mine, which means smaller than 20-tooth on the front.

Have you considered adding an intermediate jackshaft? That would let you go even lower on the gear ratios, and really give you some pulling power up hills, and it would make it easier to add a freewheel. (Do you have any sketches of belt path & drive mount location yet?)

I haven't gotten that far yet :wink: . To be honest, I'm still considering different ideas, I've seen some VERY interesting stuff with that 5 : 1 pocket bike gear box http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23397 And I have an idea that might make a friction belt drive able to continue to grip even with this kind of high - torque application http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=24057

But yes, I would definitely be open to a simple off the shelf jack-shaft, but I really want to avoid chains if they are noisy, my understanding is with belts there isn't much noise yet still good grip?

I like the BMX stem jack-shaft mount used by Gwhy too http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22245

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against something like your super commuter, but I was thinking I might be able to do something in a single stage, just to keep things simple. I also like the idea of keeping things with-in the frame instead of having to attach them to a rear rack as I will be using my rear fairing. Still working on an easy way to make it quick release.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

W00t!! It's a pedal bike!

Pretty clean looking, not bad for mostly random used parts laying around in the garage. :wink:

Soon to have new wheels and disc brakes! 8)

Might have another idea on the drive ... looking at a possible double freewheel (16 & 18 tooth on same freewheel) and freewheeling cranks + jack shaft with RC drive, cave man style! :lol: