E-Trike Idea for those with mobility challenges

[LI-ghtcycle]

So, I have an idea for something of a "mobility" trike for those who need a hand getting around, but are still able to do a bit more than some, i.e. no wheel chair bound, but able to get onto a delta style trike that is low enough to keep it more stable than the typical "adult trike" that is sold here (want to avoid the one on the left, something more "cruiser style" think big-wheel but more up-right)

LOL!! I just realized the gal on the right has hi-heels on ... hehehe :wink:

Here is something similar to what I am envisioning:

http://adulttricyclespro.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/adult-tricycle.jpg

This is my quadary:

I would want ideally to electrify something like this:

It has the styling I want, and simple utility design, but although a front hub motor would be an easy, it eliminates the ability to pedal, the other less attractive idea is to have a straight axle in back with one live, one free wheeling rear wheel, and a chain drive from an outrunner (I have a couple of these motors).

Mainly, I am looking for a good balance between style and comfort, i.e. not so low that it's hard to get in and out of, but not so high that is is like the typical unstable adult tricycle pictured up top.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Here is something closer to what I would like to electrify!

(image is not loading right, check the "sand devil" trike in the link below)

http://www.internationalsurreyco.com/bar-cycle/

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok, I think I may have found the perfect tricycle to electrify! Basically same as the image above, found more locally:

http://www.southcoastcruzers.com/products/recumbent-trike/

 

[amberwolf]

One thing Ican say is that the lower it is, the harder it will be for those with challenges to get in and out of. Something that is at normal chair height will be easiest for most, so that if they have to transfer from one chair to another they can just slide across.

SB Cruiser is built the way it is partly for that reason, though I'd like to lower the seat a couple inches or so. CrazyBike2 is already about the right height.


One other issue--the lower down you are, the harder it is to see and be seen on the road. :/

Two fixes that make a trike more stable other than lowering COG directly is to make the trike longer and put the seat in just the right place for that length, and then to widen the distance between the paired wheels. (which incidentally gives a bigger cargo space, too).


See the Amberwolf's Raine Trike thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80951
for a build that's just starting that is intended specificallly to address this stuff, including the ability to carry a (probably folded) wheelchair in back. In this case RT needs to fit thru a doorway easily so it won't be as wide as I would normally make one, but you could take it and make it 6-8" wider and it would be even more stable in turns.


It also uses all 26" wheels, so it has a better ride and all tires/tubes can be the same, but the paired-wheel section of frame hangs down from the axles rather than riding over them so it still has a low COG.

It can be built from existing bikes but it is easier to build it from scratch with a few parts cut off existing bike(s).

 

[ddk]

Ok, I think I may have found the perfect tricycle to electrify! Basically same as the image above, found more locally:

http://www.southcoastcruzers.com/products/recumbent-trike/

While I have a trike similar to this one, it's a pain to get off/on and mounting stuff proved to be a challenge. In fact, if you make a trip down the coast I would give it to you... comes with a Magic Pie II mounted in the front wheel with a custom designed front endView attachment 1 I much prefer this trike I built for mounting/dismounting
Rassy knows where I live...

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Wow thank you both for the info, and wow, that is a very kind offer ddk, I will see if I can consult with my friend first and see what her interest is in this style, but yes, I believe that would be worth a trip down the coast!

What kind battery set-up did you use with it, and what kind of performance did you get? Mostly interested in what I will need to put on it battery wise to give her good range.

Thanks again ddk!

 

[ddk]

...
What kind battery set-up did you use with it, and what kind of performance did you get? Mostly interested in what I will need to put on it battery wise to give her good range.

Thanks again ddk!

No idea! While not a complete basket case this is an unfinished project. I intended to use an Aotema motor but a friend had problems getting his v-brakes to work with a new Magic Pie so I traded him motors. Then some things happened and the project was never completed. The trike is ridable but incomplete. I estimate is will do at least 20mph on 14S, as I have a Magic Pie mounted in a 24" wheel that gets over 25mph on 12S. The battery holders are for my (personal) standard battery case where I stuff the cases with various amounts of R/C LiPo HK sticks.
If you're not scared of R?C lipo you can have about 10 sticks of 5S 20C 5000ma. They are about 2-3 years old but last tested well above 80% capacity (closer to 95%)
Detailed construction info in this other thread from a year ago, I be keeping my last MXUS geared hub motor but I'll include the new, unmounted SA 3-speed IGH.
The trike feels like a go-cart.

 

[docnjoj]

Yep getting on and off of a low seat trike gets harder as you get older. Ask me how I know this. Sun USX (my wife's trike)is just about the right height. My Steintrike is getting to be a bit to low for this 71 year old. but I do know how to raise it.
otherDoc

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Not spam at all Dogman! 8)

I apprciate the input, do you have any pics handy of the particular model of trike?

 

[mark5]

Liberty Trike is the one dogman mentioned.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I'm very curious to know what is a general good seat height, I see the SUN SEEKER | EZ-TriClassic SX as 22" and the USX 18" you meantioned Docnjoj, so I would guess about 20" is where I should shoot for.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks for the link mark! Yeah, that is a very interesting set-up, Worksaman makes some really good stuff too!

 

[amberwolf]

I'm very curious to know what is a general good seat height,

Depends entirely on the person, but in general typical chair seat height would be a starting point.

Each person will have different length lower legs at least by a little, so making the height at least coarsely adjustable would be good. Wheelchairs often do this by having either several holes for the wheel axles, or some form of clamping axle mounts that can be moved up and down, so that the frame moves up or down to make seat height up or down.

For a trike it's probably easier to make a form of clamping seatpost like a bike has, but with a more chair-like seat than a saddle, assuming the legs aren't going to be used (or used much) to do pedalling with.

If it is to be pedalled as well, then you might also need either a forward-backward sliding adjustment for the seat, too, or a movable bottom bracket to adjust the distance from seat to cranks. Or else custom build each one to the individual's measurements and usage.

The latter would be easier if very few are to be made, but if it's meant to be either mass-produced the former would be easier.



I'd also recommend some sort of grips to get up and down from, and/or "transfer rails" that make it easy to grip when moving from a wheelchair or other seated surface directly over to the trike seat. The trike also needs a parking brake for while this is being done.


If you really want to figure out good solutions, get in a wheelchair and pretend your legs can't help you (tie them together, for instance), then try to get in and out of it onto regular chairs, various heights if you ahve them, and experience there will help you see some of the challenges.

 

[Rassy]

Nice to see a couple of my favorite ES acquaintances communicating here.

I purchased a used Sun EZ3 SX for my brother to ride after he had his stroke over 7 years ago. He never let me put a motor on it, but he loves the trike. His disability includes no use of his left arm and limited use of his left leg, although he has progressed to the point where he can keep his left foot locked into SPD pedals.

When he lived in Canby, Oregon I visited regularly and had some good rides with him. Now he lives in Florida and visits me once a year. My tadpoles didn't work out very well for him, mainly he is too big to fit between the handlebars properly, so I purchased another used EZ3 SX to be used by visitors, and equipped it with a Bafang crank drive. One thing I like about the trike is the tremendous fore and aft adjustment the seat has so that it can accommodate most any size rider, no tools required. See the last link under my signature for more info and a picture of this trike.

Off Topic: Yep, I know where you live ddk, and with the current heat I'm thinking of getting that drive down the coast some time soon. I'll be in touch, but if you want to send something? up to LI=ghtcycle I could probably haul it up to Oregon City where one of my sisters lives.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Wow, again you guys are amazing, I would be thrilled to finish that project for someone who can use it, perhaps there is even a Endless Sphere member who could use it?

I have a friend who lives pretty far out of state, not sure how practical it would be to finish that trike for him and ship it, but I would love to do it if it would work for him, or for someone here locally.

That is such a kewl looking delta I wouldn't mind getting one myself! 8)

The one you are offering ddk would only be used for someone in need, I have some contacts here in Oregon City with a charity that gives bicycles to needy as part of a program to help people get back on their feet, for basic transportation to get to work, etc. so I am pretty sure I would have no problem getting it a good home!

Rassy, I'd feel bad if you made a special trip, but if you happened to be planning a trip this direction anyway, and it would work out for you, I would be honored!

And then I would be able to show you the E-Zilla Cruiser! Maybe go for a short ride in town, see the view at the top of the outdoor elevator!

(I do have a buddy that could also take me down the coast, he has a good sized SUV that I am sure the trike could fit into too.)

Anyway, I was so amazed that after just a short bit of brainstorming to see such a generous offer of what looks to be a great trike, hopefully it will make a good set of wheels for someone here!

Could I bother you to measure the seat height when you get a chance ddk?

I am a fan of Lipo batteries, but as I would be giving this to someone who might not be, I will pass on the batteries

I LOVE my Lipo, however with the advancements with 18650 cells and great vendors like Luna Cycles selling them at such affordable prices, I am a bigger fan of the simplicity of just plug and play packs.

I think my Turnigy Nano Techs are about 6 yrs or so old now, still have a decent amount of capacity.

Never done a full test but I just got 30 miles range on a 18S 2P, 12 AH with moderate pedaling and speeds up to 28 MPH going up hill, so even though I start creeping too near the LVC,(I like to stop at 55V to be safe) at about 6 AH's capacity, I think I still got my $$$ worth!

I always do a full balance charge of each 4 or 6 cell pack as I am too nervous with idea of bulk charging, I like the 18650's better these days.

But thanks again for your offer! I would love to have that bike to finish building it up for someone in need along with anything you want to go with it, just I will pass on LiPo batteries thanks!

Hoping to hear from that gal again, and see if it would be something she would use, her previous trike was pretty low so, seat height might not be an issue for her.

 

[ddk]

I'm very curious to know what is a general good seat height,

Depends entirely on the person, but in general typical chair seat height would be a starting point.

Each person will have different length lower legs at least by a little, so making the height at least coarsely adjustable would be good. ..

"standard" chair height is 17" (said the guy who had to study human ergonomics to design production facilities) for people 5' 2" to 6' 1"
The trike I mount easiest has a 17" high seat; my other trike sports a 21" seat height and is not difficult to mount with the "free" trike having about a 13" high seat.
If the person is short (less than 5' 4") the 13" height isn't too much of an issue. If a wheelchair is involved this might not be the best trike for transferring from seat to seat.

If a trike has no parking brake contraption I use velcro strap around the brake lever handle, but I'm still ambulatory and can stand without issues so I use parking brakes to stop the trike from rolling away. You know, like a parking brake, lol.

I thought the Sturmey Archer IGH 3-speed hub w/coaster brake was bad, but actually my left knee collapsed under the pressure of braking. I discovered this jumping down from a 2' height where, lucky for me, my son was right behind me and caught me.
...knee damage caused by my latest SUV vs. trike where the SUV always wins.
So I never bothered mounting the new one I'd purchased.

...
I purchased a used Sun EZ3 SX for my brother to ride after he had his stroke over 7 years ago.

now there's a trike I have problems getting on because of leg lift issues, lol

 

[ddk]

...lol, I answered your question before I knew it.
(concurrent posts)


If you're ever in the need of an easiest-to-mount trike that would be this one, although they use (very) cheap components.
If I were a younger, more able person I would improve on this concept by using a structural roof and other improvements involving the pedal drive etc. etc...
etc.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks for that info ddk, and just to make sure I understand correctly, the seat height from the ground is 13"?

I find the description on their website confusing lol.

Either way, looks like Trailmate makes some good stuff for folks needing a more accessible ride!

 

[docnjoj]

I see 2 problems with the Trailmate. The front wheel!. It looks about 12 inches diameter and it is nylon. No front motor there. You might adapt a scooter motor but the voltage would have to be pretty high to get the thing moving.
otherDoc

 

[ddk]

I see 2 problems with the Trailmate. The front wheel!. It looks about 12 inches diameter and it is nylon. No front motor there. You might adapt a scooter motor but the voltage would have to be pretty high to get the thing moving.
otherDoc

Like I said "(very) cheap components" -but-
motors mounted in 12" wheels are not uncommon and yes, it comes with no motor. B-but we bee talking bout getting off/on an adult pedal trike?
60V in a 12" wheel gets +15mph with a fast wind hubby and if you have mobility issues requiring 'this' solution do you really want to go much faster?
So bottom line is: to motorfy the Trailmate thingy involves modifications...
...but has modifications ever stopped some of us from adapting things to other things?
(not me) (until recently) (...anyway adding a rear motor/chain drive is what I'd attempt)
The concept is good
the actuated trike? not so gud
-but still is the easiest trike to not trip over getting off/on (because- nothing to trip on)

 

[Rassy]

ddk, pm sent.

 

[docnjoj]

Well getting on is no problem, just fall into the seat on my Steintrike. Getting off, well, not so easy. I can still use the front tires as leverage to pull up. Arms from cardiac rehab. Stronger than the average bear.
otherDoc

 

[Blueshift]

Like others have suggested I would also try to make the seat not sit to low.
I think it might be worth to copy a few features that mobility scooters have.
having a seat that rotates to the side then locks in place might be useful.
Adjustable seat height might me a cool feature; a lot of mobility scooters have a post under the seat that has holes and a pin to push in to adjust the level. Of course the tallest adjustment needs to be tilt proof. Sometimes the lowest step through bike can be challenging for those with disabilities.

some other ideas.

suspension - less shock to damaged joints etc.
throttle sensitivity- may need to be adjusted for safety.
Id say the ebike breaks that cut-off the motor are a must.
A nicely size rear cargo basket and maybe a good place to fasten any mobility devices (walkers, wheel- chairs, canes etc.)

Don't know if somebody has mentioned this already but a BIG PLUS would be having a parking break. For someone with mobility issues this might be the determining factor if the bike will work for them.

Good luck!

 

[ddk]

Elvis has left the building
Expect elvis on Thursday (maybe)

Say mods, is there an issue re-posting the pics I posted in the (above) post?

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Wow, sounds great, ddk, just had a PM from Rassy, I am sure we will find a new home for your much loved trike no problem!