e-beach
10 MW
Is your axle shifting in the dropouts when you tighten the nuts?
Ebike bike Wheel pulling to one side
- Thread starter adamsavage79
- Start date
adamsavage79
100 W
I don't think so. Id need a another pair of eyes. I'm g0nna look into the mobile bike shop. See if they caN help
aroundqube
10 kW
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2012
- Messages
- 577
At the risk of being rude ; what is going on in the area of the bottom bracket, down tube , and stays? Is that some type of frame repair ?
Chalo
100 TW
adamsavage79 said:
What I see in your photos is that the hub motor tire wants to rub the frame on the side opposite the freewheel. That's an indication that the dish of the wheel is incorrect-- which is very common for hub motor wheels and not terribly unusual for other rear wheels.
It's not a problem with your frame. You can have a bike shop check the wheel with a dishing tool to verify it's off center, then tighten the spokes on the drive side and perhaps loosen them on the non-drive side (if they're not already too loose for that). This should bring the rim to center over the axle.
Your difficulty grasping what's going on suggests that you could use the help of a bicycle service professional.
EDIT:
Looking at your hub, it's obvious that the flanges are not offset over the motor, and are very narrowly spaced. To complicate this, the spokes are all laced inside the hub flanges, which reduces their lateral bracing angle even more than the flange spacing already does.
I think you don't have enough control over the rim offset (with the spokes laced the way they are) to get the rim all the way over to center. The problem you're having is the reason I have never used a rear hub motor on one of my own bikes. I think you'll have to relace the wheel with right side spokes all outside the hub flange, and left side spokes all inside the hub flange. That won't make your wheel as good as a normal bicycle rear wheel, but it will be much better than what you have now and it will probably allow you to center the rim.
This would be an excellent opportunity to use good quality 14-15ga double butted spokes and a rim drilled for 14ga spokes, instead of the busted Chinese garbage your wheel came with. Even if you succeed in getting the rim dished correctly (which is very unlikely), your current wheel is going to be nothing but trouble because the spokes are too thick to stay tight.
adamsavage79
100 W
I've suspected the issue was with the wheel the entire time, but we needed to rule it out. I've seen a similar problem before on my old road bike. The wheel wanted to rub on the frame, but was centered on the seat stay. I will try to get it dished right again, and use your suggestion to the bike tech. As for drilling new holes, I rather not. The wheel is still under warranty. Should any sort of issues with the motor come up, I wouldn't have that warranty to rely on...
The worst case scenario.. I will just use a small width tire so it's not so close to the rim and just deal with it. I rode it sense the start of Jan without issues.
The worst case scenario.. I will just use a small width tire so it's not so close to the rim and just deal with it. I rode it sense the start of Jan without issues.
adamsavage79 said:
Where is anyone suggesting drilling new holes?
If you're referring to this (which is the only post with the word "drill" in it):
Chalo said:
it does not in any way suggest you drill holes in anything.
I think part of the problem with us being able to help you is you are not correctly reading (or interpreting) everything being written, so your responses (and probably actions) are not necessarily correct for the questions or information we're posting.
If you have questions about what we're posting, please ask them.
I'm only posting this to try to help, so you get the answers you need, which necessitates you understanding what we're saying.
adamsavage79
100 W
Ok so a brand new rim with holes for larger spokes ? I would still be voiding the warranty, as I'm making a change to the motor. I did think about getting a higher quality rim tbh. If I have larger spokes, then the hub itself would need to be able accept the larger spokes.
Not sure I follow what is being suggested here.
Not sure I follow what is being suggested here.
Chalo is suggesting that if you have to rebuild the wheel anyway, that you use *smaller* diameter spokes, so that they hold tension better without damaging the rim.
The 12g spokes that usually come on hubmotor wheels are usually paired with a bicycle rim that is not really capable of the tension that that size spoke needs in order to stay in tension. I have seen multiple rims with cracks around the spoke holes simply from tensioning the spokes even just sufficiently to not unscrew themselves over time--and once they crack then they can't support the spoke to keep tension, so they don't, and then they do unscrew, and then start breaking at the J-bend.
14g spokes (13g max) are more like the largest sizes these rims are designed for.
The rim itself that you already have is probably perfectly usable with smaller gauge spokes and nipples, as long as the nipples correctly fill the hole (so that the flanges on them inside the rim are fully supported by the rim around the hole), or you can use washers on them that will do that supporting.
So you probably don't need a new rim with smaller holes, but if the ones in your rim *are* larger, then you might.
If you don't already have spokes the right length (a bit shorter on the side of the wheel that is too far from the frame, a bit longer on the side that is too close), then you can order them various places online. You might only need 1mm difference on each side.
This assumes that the steps already given on adjusting the dish have already been done and failed to fix it. If they haven't, try those first.
The 12g spokes that usually come on hubmotor wheels are usually paired with a bicycle rim that is not really capable of the tension that that size spoke needs in order to stay in tension. I have seen multiple rims with cracks around the spoke holes simply from tensioning the spokes even just sufficiently to not unscrew themselves over time--and once they crack then they can't support the spoke to keep tension, so they don't, and then they do unscrew, and then start breaking at the J-bend.
14g spokes (13g max) are more like the largest sizes these rims are designed for.
The rim itself that you already have is probably perfectly usable with smaller gauge spokes and nipples, as long as the nipples correctly fill the hole (so that the flanges on them inside the rim are fully supported by the rim around the hole), or you can use washers on them that will do that supporting.
So you probably don't need a new rim with smaller holes, but if the ones in your rim *are* larger, then you might.
If you don't already have spokes the right length (a bit shorter on the side of the wheel that is too far from the frame, a bit longer on the side that is too close), then you can order them various places online. You might only need 1mm difference on each side.
This assumes that the steps already given on adjusting the dish have already been done and failed to fix it. If they haven't, try those first.
e-beach
10 MW
Has it been determined that the frame is not the problem?
adamsavage79
100 W
Ok I get it now. I will try my luck with velofix. I've had very good exp with them in the past, and they seem to know what they are doing more than any of the bike shops I had gone to. If that doesn't work, then I can try with smaller spokes ? Do you know where I could get spokes of the right length ?
@ e-beach Yes, it would seem the frame is NOT the issue, and it is indeed the wheel. Which I suspected from the start, but had to rule out the frame first.
@ e-beach Yes, it would seem the frame is NOT the issue, and it is indeed the wheel. Which I suspected from the start, but had to rule out the frame first.
RunForTheHills
1 kW
You need to get spokes the correct length for the combination of hub and rim you are using. If you replace the rim with a better rim, you will need to measure the ERD on the new rim to determine the spoke length required. You will also need some measurements from the hub. There are many spoke length calculators on the Internet, including one on Grin's website.
MTA: If you have the wheel professionally rebuilt, the wheel builder should supply the new spokes.
MTA: If you have the wheel professionally rebuilt, the wheel builder should supply the new spokes.
adamsavage79
100 W
I would be surprised if they had spokes that short on hand. I have a bunch of spare spokes myself though.
e-beach
10 MW
Seems to me to be a whole lot easier to get a spoke wrench from you LBS and center the exiting rim 1/4 turn on the spoke at a time.
Chalo
100 TW
e-beach said:
Thing is, that probably won't do it. At a minimum, the right side spokes need to be removed and laced on the outside of the hub flange rather than the inside. I think when the right side spokes (as furnished) are turned up as tight as they can be, and the left side spokes are as loose as they can be, the rim probably still won't come to the center. The flanges are too close together, and then made effectively narrower by lacing the spokes all on the inside.
RunForTheHills
1 kW
adamsavage79 said:
A shop that builds a lot of wheels will have a spoke machine to cut and thread spokes to any length required. Of course that only works with single butted or straight gauge spokes. Double butted spokes would have to be ordered.
adamsavage79
100 W
I guess I'm good then. The ones I have are single gauge spokes. I checked my high end Road Bike, and it's also a single gauge. I'm not sure, I've seen a bike other than that before.
Chalo
100 TW
adamsavage79 said:
The problem with your spokes isn't that they're straight gauge. They're too thick to make a reliable wheel. They're also laced in a way that makes it difficult to impossible to center the rim over the axle.
OEM bikes do most often have straight gauge spokes, but not because it's best. It's because they're cheaper, wheels are easier to build with straight gauge spokes, and most buyers don't know any better. Truly "high end" bikes usually have either double-butted or bladed spokes. Under $1500 or so, they're most likely to have straight gauge spokes.
In your case, straight 14ga (2.0mm) spokes would be satisfactory. That's not what you have.
adamsavage79
100 W
So couldn't I just ask for them to cut 14 Gauge spokes for me, or is more complicated ? Also, it turns out my Giant Bike is Single Butted. I asked my buddy, whom I wish lived much closer to me. I would get him to fix up the wheel.
Chalo
100 TW
adamsavage79 said:
A few bike shops can cut spokes to custom lengths. I usually use Dan's Competition mail order for custom length spokes. Custom cut spokes are almost invariably 14ga straight or 14-15ga double butted.
Your Giant does not have single butted spokes. I'm unaware of any OEM bike that has them.
Don't reuse the rim that came with your wheel. Get a better one that has holes that are the right size for 14ga nipples. Luna Cycle has excellent Alex DM24 rims for a very good price. Or you can get a rim with off-center spoke holes to help mitigate the dishing problem with your hub motor.
RunForTheHills
1 kW
Yes, you can ask the shop to replace the spokes with 14G spokes and re-lace the wheel the way Chalo suggested.
dogman dan
1 PW
Jeeez guys.
Put an extra washer on the axle, inside the dropouts, on the side of the wheel that is tight. This is a very common thing with the cheaper kits. For some reason, they dish the wheel a bit funny. As well as lace them funny, with shitty spokes. The easy fix is not rebuild the wheel. Not yet anyway.
The cheap kits seem to be built for a rear frame width of 138 mm, vs 135. The frame can flex out 3 mm easy. just put a washer on the tight side, and bingo, 3 mm more space on that side.
After that, if the wheel is sitll wandering around after you ride, its moving at the axle. a second torque arm will help it stay put.
Spokes on cheap wheels do loosen as you ride the first 100 miles or so. When they do, snug up the spokes on one side only. It will maintain your dish towards the side with more room, and it will also snug up the other side spokes as well.
Put an extra washer on the axle, inside the dropouts, on the side of the wheel that is tight. This is a very common thing with the cheaper kits. For some reason, they dish the wheel a bit funny. As well as lace them funny, with shitty spokes. The easy fix is not rebuild the wheel. Not yet anyway.
The cheap kits seem to be built for a rear frame width of 138 mm, vs 135. The frame can flex out 3 mm easy. just put a washer on the tight side, and bingo, 3 mm more space on that side.
After that, if the wheel is sitll wandering around after you ride, its moving at the axle. a second torque arm will help it stay put.
Spokes on cheap wheels do loosen as you ride the first 100 miles or so. When they do, snug up the spokes on one side only. It will maintain your dish towards the side with more room, and it will also snug up the other side spokes as well.
adamsavage79
100 W
I unfortunately tried another washer and it makes no difference at all.
adamsavage79
100 W
It seems that I will need a 2nd torque arm to stop the axle from shifting. I had a complete rebuild done of the wheel, and I'm using much better quality spokes and nipples. Yet I still have a problem with the wheel shifting to the one side when you tighten it.
I got the spokes from this company: https://www.spokeservice.ca/shop/spokes/sapim-strong-spokes?attribute_color=Black&attribute_length=110mm
I got the spokes from this company: https://www.spokeservice.ca/shop/spokes/sapim-strong-spokes?attribute_color=Black&attribute_length=110mm
