Ebike Conversion Newbie Help Please

[sfghbiker]

Hello all,
I am hoping that the knowledgable folks could help me narrow down which ebike conversion kit I should consider for my commuter bike.
Location: SF bay area, CA
Budget:1500 to 2250
Bicycle I'd like to convert: Salsa La Cruz steel cross frame. This bike is currently built up with a 9sp dura ace drivetrain and 29 inch mtb wheels built on Hope hubs with avid mechanical disk brakes. It has sort of a funky drop bar setup currently.
Bike use: I am hoping to use this bike to switch over to bike commuting a rather long commute (40 miles) each way. This ride like all rides in the bay area has some hills with a total elevation gain of about 500ft each way. On the weekends and around town I would like to be able to use the bike to ride around some of the very steep hills around SF and the east bay. I have the ability to charge my battery at work during the day.
Speed: My goal speed for my commute is 25 to 30mph. I would like a setup that is a torque assist pedlec. For this reason I was considering BionX and hacking the controller or a thin torque sensing bottom bracket and a cycle analyst V3. I currently ride at around 15-17mph without assist on my commute route.
Other things: I would say that i have basic mechanical aptitude and have built up a couple of my own bikes/wheelsets but have no experience setting up or trouble shooting electrical bikes. For this reason reliability, good customer support and a solid warranty are important to me. Additionally, I may in the next year convert my salsa commuting bike to a long tail conversion using a FreeRadical or the next generation free radical replacement and would like a system I can transfer over to that.

thanks for your help/input. Please feel free to move or let me know if this is not the appropriate forum for this.

 

[dogman dan]

Holy crap. 80 miles a day? This is where we say, get a motorcycle. Seriously, even if you build a moped class bike, 30mph, you are looking at 3-4 hours a day commuting.

I understand 40 miles in Cal can be an hour and a half by car, but likely better by motorcycle.

 

[sfghbiker]

I was thinking of doing a staggered bike commute:
Monday AM Drive to work and park
Monday PM Bike
Tuesday AM Bike
Tuesday PM Drive home from work
...
Maybe its crazy. I've been doing it on occasion without electrical conversion so want something that will make it a little less intesnse

 

[wesnewell]

While you've answered many questions, please read this.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66302
I'd buy this with 30ah of 12s lipo and a 12s bms and a charger for home and work.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/28-Rear-Wheel-48V1000W-Electric-Battery-Bicycle-Motor-Conversion-Kit-LCD-Display-/371229687961
Total cost ~$1000

 

[Drunkskunk]

Welcome to the forum. We don't sugar coat things here. For the kind of range you need reliably, a motorcycle is a better option.

But it's still possible in your budget.

80 miles on an a bicycle a day is going to be hell on parts. The Santa Cruz is a lightweight hybrid frame. when adding the extra 30+ pounds of ebike equipment, and then punishing it over long distances you're going to find it wears out fast. Just the act of manhandling around the heavier bike will be tough on cranks, bars, stems, and seat posts that were originally designed to be lightweight. You may be looking at frame fatigue soon with it, and you may want to consider a true MTB frame, or a cargo bike frame to cope with the abuse the bike will get.

If you plan to do a 50/50 mix with pedal power and motor power, you're still looking at a bigass battery. We generally say plan 36 watt hours of capacity per mile at 20mph to ensure you have enough to deal with headwinds, hills, and the usual degradation of a battery over time.That would be a huge 1440 watt battery, 48 volt, 30 AH capacity, weighing ~30 pounds or more depending on type.

However, since you want to pedal, if you split the power 50/50, you can drop that battery down to a 720 watt hour, which works out to a 48 volt 15 AH. Still big, but manageable. You lose redundancy this way, if you throw a shoe, or twist an ankle, the motor isn't going to carry you all the way home, but it should get you there if you can maintain that 50/50 split.

Notice I'm mentioning 48V batteries. With your hills, skip right over the 36 volt systems and go right for a 48 volt. Lipo is not appropriate for a commuter. it's not a safe chemistry, and wouldn't be safe to charge at work, unless you can give a few hours of your day to sit and monitor it. Lipo is not plug-n-play.

A good battery pack would be a NCR type Li-ion pack like one of these :http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=123
Those would be safe to charge at work, and should fit in the triangle of your Salsa's frame. Measure your frame to confirm it. having the battery in the center of the bike's frame greatly improves it's handling. It's hard to overstress how much better it is.

That vendor, EM3ev.com is also who I recommend for the motor. One of the MAC kits should do what you need, giving you torque for the hills, speed for your off days, and enough reliability for the kind of distance you'll be covering.

As for the pedal assist, the THUN combined with the Cycle Analyst is really the only thing you should consider. I prefer pedal assist using a throttle and my head, as my head is better at predicting what I want and responding to my inputs (unless I've been drinking), but in your case, you're going to need to hold the motor's output down if you plan to make it as far as you need to go. I suggest having a throttle as well, for those OH SH!T moments when you need full power instantly.

 

[sfghbiker]

Ok. I think I'm narrowing this down a bit. 48V 15 AH system with that type of triangle frame battery. I measured and will fit on my frame. I guess I am now down to selecting which geared hub motor to use. I think I'd like to go with either the eZee or the BMC hub motor. any thoughts about this? seems like an increased cost vs the MAC motor but perhaps higher build quality which is hopefully a bit more reliable. am I on the right track here?
A second sort of related question is that if I have a rear motor hub and a triangle bag battery does it make the most sense to put on a low riding front rack for my panniers. It seems like this would lead to the most balanced weight distribution. I've never run a front rack before so not sure how this would impact handling vs a standard rear rack.