Hi all! I have some technical questions... New to ebikes and this forum so forgive me if this is in the wrong place or my questions have really obvious answers. I received my Dillenger street legal kit for my touring bike 3 days ago with the goal of ultimate range. I am a relatively strong rider (30-60 mile days are common rides) and got this kit to help extend my adventures. The kit out of the box is too powerful for me peaking at 560watts so I did ALOT of reading the manual and research. With the kt-lcd3 display I was able to program the controller to put out less power and found a parameter setting for controller max amp output? I toned it down to put out 7.5 amps and now the display shows it peaks out at ~260watts. My question are is this going to extend my range and am I hurting anything by changing these settings? I want to get the absolute maximum range. I love the feel and the ease of riding longer distances. Just want to make sure I'm not hurting anything and the settings I changed will actually extend range. Thanks!!
Ebike newbie with some technical questions!
- Thread starter Bubba18
- Start date
e-beach
10 MW
I just took a quick look at the Dillenger site and couldn't find the manual or instructions for you settings. My guess is you will not hurt you bike and it will improve the distance, but you really should contact Dillenger to find out if this is so.
Mileage on an e-bike is watts expended during the ride. How many watt hours does your battery have. Around here a rule of thumb is [volts X amps = watts].
I tend to burn around 27 watts per mile in my stop and go city.
If you are using less watts, then you should extend your ride compared to using watt hours quickly. I am not sure what distances you have to compare against each other, but if you are using 250 watts instead of 350 watts you will have 100 watts to burn later. You will however go slower most likely; weather, wind, hills and pedaling all being a contributing factor to distance.
My advice is to contact Dillenger and also post a link to your kit's computer manual so we can look at it.
Mileage on an e-bike is watts expended during the ride. How many watt hours does your battery have. Around here a rule of thumb is [volts X amps = watts].
I tend to burn around 27 watts per mile in my stop and go city.
If you are using less watts, then you should extend your ride compared to using watt hours quickly. I am not sure what distances you have to compare against each other, but if you are using 250 watts instead of 350 watts you will have 100 watts to burn later. You will however go slower most likely; weather, wind, hills and pedaling all being a contributing factor to distance.
My advice is to contact Dillenger and also post a link to your kit's computer manual so we can look at it.
dogman dan
1 PW
A lot will depend on how you ride it. Lowering the wattage should mean a slower top speed, and that will ALLWAYS mean better range than using the motor to go faster. It's too easy to let the throttle creep up, and go faster, blowing your battery. Lots of kits now have several power levels to choose from on the display, the lower level always ends up taking you farther, even with PAS instead of throttle.
I've done a lot of rides where getting your range matters just a bit. The next town, or even a house, 70 miles away, burning desert, and a mountain along the way. you gotta make it.
The best range is again, slow down. Ride the speed you normally would ride. I'm assuming this pedal cruise will be perhaps 15-18 mph, without a peloton to suck you along. Select the right gear for a comfortable cadence, maybe not the highest if it's a road bike. Then bring up the throttle just enough to make the pedaling easier, yet still pedal hard enough to bring up your heart rate significantly. Same feel you get with a light tailwind. Not flying, but easier.
This should put your wattage draw in the 200w ballpark, allowing a two hour ride from a 400 watt hour battery, or more. Off the throttle completely when possible, all the downhill, or if you do get that nice tailwind.
The most extreme range extender is false range. You see this claimed by retailers all the time. Who cares how far you can go with the motor off, or running at a meaningless 50w. ( 50w is only enough to cancel out the battery and motor weight) But if you use that motor only when on a hill or headwind, then your range is essentially infinite. But when its off, you have to pedal up that extra 50w, just like carrying 20 pounds of beer in a pannier feels.
The best range will be pulling an average of 100w continuous, including any motor off time. If you can get by on 100w average, then a small 400 wh battery will go 4 hours, 60 miles at 15 mph. It's not much assist, but having 250w for a few min up the hills will still be priceless.
To really get the max range, riding with a cycleanalyst is the way to go. On those desert rides, I know I will make it if I can hit 25 watt hours per mile for my average . The CA gives me a running average, so if I see it higher than 25 wh/mi halfway, I need to slow down till I get a lower average. Or,, if it's showing 20 wh/mi, I know I can take the last half faster. Priceless info.
I've done a lot of rides where getting your range matters just a bit. The next town, or even a house, 70 miles away, burning desert, and a mountain along the way. you gotta make it.
The best range is again, slow down. Ride the speed you normally would ride. I'm assuming this pedal cruise will be perhaps 15-18 mph, without a peloton to suck you along. Select the right gear for a comfortable cadence, maybe not the highest if it's a road bike. Then bring up the throttle just enough to make the pedaling easier, yet still pedal hard enough to bring up your heart rate significantly. Same feel you get with a light tailwind. Not flying, but easier.
This should put your wattage draw in the 200w ballpark, allowing a two hour ride from a 400 watt hour battery, or more. Off the throttle completely when possible, all the downhill, or if you do get that nice tailwind.
The most extreme range extender is false range. You see this claimed by retailers all the time. Who cares how far you can go with the motor off, or running at a meaningless 50w. ( 50w is only enough to cancel out the battery and motor weight) But if you use that motor only when on a hill or headwind, then your range is essentially infinite. But when its off, you have to pedal up that extra 50w, just like carrying 20 pounds of beer in a pannier feels.
The best range will be pulling an average of 100w continuous, including any motor off time. If you can get by on 100w average, then a small 400 wh battery will go 4 hours, 60 miles at 15 mph. It's not much assist, but having 250w for a few min up the hills will still be priceless.
To really get the max range, riding with a cycleanalyst is the way to go. On those desert rides, I know I will make it if I can hit 25 watt hours per mile for my average . The CA gives me a running average, so if I see it higher than 25 wh/mi halfway, I need to slow down till I get a lower average. Or,, if it's showing 20 wh/mi, I know I can take the last half faster. Priceless info.
Thank you both! There was so many times on my last tour I wanted an ebike, i understand the need to make it to the next town 70 miles away. Haha US-50 in nevada! Thank you for pointing out that 50w only just negates the weight of the kit. Did not cross my mind. Now another question! The 36v battery has a cutoff at 30v it seems to be at 41.7 full charged. There is also a setting to where i can put that low voltage cutoff at 28v. Any cons to doing this? It seems that if there is a voltage cut off I wont be able to use all of my 36v13ah battery correct? Instead of 480 ah realistically its ~156 at 30v cutoff and slightly higher at 28v cut off? Is this true or am I missing some magic numbers?
e-beach
10 MW
Bubba18 said:
Battery magic numbers are all about how you use them. Your motor and bms and charging style and riding style will make your cells last differently then someone else who charges and rides differently. Heat is a big killer of lithium cells. So is over-charging them. So is over-discharging them.
General rules of thumbs around here is: Never over-charge them, Never over-discharge them, never over-heat them, never puncture them, keep them in balance. If you keep them undercharged, like at 89% of full charge, they might last longer. Perhaps years longer.
But you really should know what cells you are running.........
Now your cells seem to be Samsung ICR 18650-26F cells. Those are a low-"C" cell. Only 2C at most. That is low, so make sure you never pull more amps then double the Ah listed for your pack. Your cells have a maximum charge voltage of 4.2v that means fully charged your 36v pack should be able to charge to 4.2v X however many cell you have in series. (example: 12 cells in series X 4.2v = 50.4v) Your maximum discharge voltage for these cells is 2.75v. To complete the example (12 cells X 2.75 = 33v).
But before you take my numbers into account, contact the manufacture and make sure what cells are in the pack, how many in series and how many in parallel.
This from Dillenger:
http://dillengerelectricbikes.com/e...bike-kit-samsung-power-13ah-by-dillenger.html
Samsung Specs:
http://www.datasheetspdf.com/PDF/ICR18650-26F/829619/2
docw009
10 MW
The cells specs usually are 4.2 volts max and 2.5 (2.75 in the above example) volts min. I believe the 41.7 volt max indicates 10 series (10S) groups in the OP's battery. The 30 volt shutoff in the controller is fairly standard for a safety margin. Maybe that 28 volts is for a 9S battery, as 10 x 2.75 is 28 volts, too close if the min really is 2.75 volts.
The battery also has its own cutoff. In particular, if a cell gets too close to the battery's cell LVC, I believe that the BMS will prevent the battery from recharging. It could happen that one group will be a 2.5 and the others at 2.9 in a badly unbalanced battery. Then you have to open the battery, find the culprit group and decide whether it is safe to bring it back above the LVC limit.
I'd keep the controller LVC at 30 volts. I am just guessing here, but I think you get 80-90% of the advertised amp-hours working the cells between 3.0 and 4.2 volts. The capacity starts to fall off fast when you get under 3 volts.
The battery also has its own cutoff. In particular, if a cell gets too close to the battery's cell LVC, I believe that the BMS will prevent the battery from recharging. It could happen that one group will be a 2.5 and the others at 2.9 in a badly unbalanced battery. Then you have to open the battery, find the culprit group and decide whether it is safe to bring it back above the LVC limit.
I'd keep the controller LVC at 30 volts. I am just guessing here, but I think you get 80-90% of the advertised amp-hours working the cells between 3.0 and 4.2 volts. The capacity starts to fall off fast when you get under 3 volts.
I will keep the cut off at 30v. Now to go ride and test range! This stuff is so cool.
