eLation 200watt kit (Australia)

[adrian_sm]

I am not worried about attracting attention from the cops, it would just be nice to have it all legit.

My Crystalyte 408 @ 48V doesn't feel over the top to me, as:
- a guy on a decent road bike will still overtake me on the flat
- I would go faster downhill without the motor

The main difference from a speed perspective is that I go faster up hill, than my non-motorised friends. And this is probably the safest time to go fast, as stopping distances aren't an issue.

Yet as the rules stand this bike is too powerful.

Maybe a speed limit for eBikes is a better option. Keep it below ??? 40km/hr ??? on the flat on the roads and you don't have to register. Go above that, and you are in motorbike territory. The issue is with dual purpose bike/pedestrians paths. If eBikes become common I can see accidents occuring, as pedistrians aren't used to fast bikes, even though a decent road bike can go 40km/hr.

 

[lesspedal]

I did some more thinking about the Australian 200w limit over the weekend.

I went for a 30km ride with my wife along a dedicated bike path that runs parallel to the main road. My bike is 1800w and my wife's is around 900w. My wife's has a top speed of around 30kmh and mine 40kmh on the flat.What I found is that most of the guys on the light weight road bikes sat on about the same speed as I did 30 - 40kmh. When we came to a hill I had the ability to overtake them but rather than doing this I just took it easy. I always feel comfortable riding my bike like this as it doesn't draw attention to your bike. I was covering the distance at a good pace and the guys on the peddle bikes were working hard and sweating it out to keep up that pace but I was just peddling along with no effort at all . I like the 1800w of power to get me up the steepest hill or pull a heavy load with a bike trailer.Speed isn't something I am chasing with this bike. Anything over 40kmh and the wind starts to freeze your ears in the winter and your just burning your battery fighting wind resistance.

I guess what I am getting at is if you ride your ebike at peddle bike/ fit person on a road bike speeds and stick to the cycling laws. I really don't think you will have any problems. Its speed and silly actions that will attract the attention of the cops not the output wattage of your motor that's the last thing they are worried about.

I am sure you could have a 10,000w ebike and as long as you geared it not to go over 40kmh and didn't do burnouts or power monos in front of the cops they would leave you alone. On the same note if you have a modest e bike that's geared to go 70kmh watch them jump on you then.

Kurt.

My daughter is a police sergeant, she probably couldn't care less about ebikes, depends what sort of day they have had.
Have we hijacked someones thread about elation kit?

 

[heathyoung]

Yes, we have hijacked the thread

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/rta-review-to-clarify-controls-on-pedalassisted-bikes-20090504-asmx.html

http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=19991 - see the last post on the page to see the draft legislation.

 

[lesspedal]

Yes, we have hijacked the thread

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/rta-review-to-clarify-controls-on-pedalassisted-bikes-20090504-asmx.html

http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=19991 - see the last post on the page to see the draft legislation.

Maybe we should start a new thread in ebike discussion area regarding ebike laws in aus,there seems to be different ideas regarding changes,from every state.

 

[zx6rj1]

My daughter is a police sergeant, she probably couldn't care less about ebikes, depends what sort of day they have had.
Have we hijacked someones thread about elation kit?

I really don't mind. I'm new to this and enjoying the discussions. It's quite unavoidable that any eBike discussions related to Australia will discuss the law. Let's say I found it intriguing that the government will do anything to keep fun out of people (even as "noble" as electric bicycles can you believe it!). I come from the motorcycling perspective where practically any safe & fun riding virtually longer existent in the eyes of the law.

FFS a road bike can go 60kph on pedal alone! What to do there, put a speed limiter?

 

[lesspedal]

Yeah, maybe some type of elec brake that applies at say 30kph, better not give them any ideas, they may do it. most lawmakers have nothing much to do so they pick on easy targets,like bikes.
Talking of speed..my son races road bikes, he took my elation/mtb for a spin and came back with a max of 62kph on speedo.

 

[OneWayTraffic]

62kph is just insane IMO. Was he pushing it down a hill?

Once when I was 22 and foolish. I was cruising on my MTB down a nice hill with sweeping turns. Was keeping pace with the cars easy. Misjudged my speed around one of the corners, and just crossed over the centerline. Car coming the other way. Missed him by roughly 30cm. He was going 50km/h up and I was going about the same down.

Since then I've been a bit more careful on the downhills. Just cruise and enjoy the ride.

 

[lesspedal]

I think he was going down 5% grade, i can only get to about 50 down same hill,the wind holds me back, he has very good cadence.

Myself i am generally happy to just roll down hills now, like yourself oneway, i'm happy to enjoy the ride,glad you survived your close call.
Mentioned earlier in this thread that allan d/elation always gives excellent after sales backup, as my crank freewheel is getting a little wobbly and crunchy,
called elation today, he immediately said he would send me not one, but two new freewheels, should arrive next week.
Also i believe he has a new sprag type freewheel coming ,available in a month or two.
Trev.

 

[zx6rj1]

Ok a few updates ...

After few weeks with the kit I felt that my cadence and motor's torque peak did not match. When I am at a comfortable cadence and engage the throttle, the motor felt lugged a bit at lowish rpm. Likewise, if I then go to lower gear, the motor spins normal, but my cadence get too fast and light.

So I basically swapped the motor gear with the smaller diameter chainring. I sacrifice the number of front gears as a result (although I can always buy similiar one later on).

The torque-rpm-cadence match perfectly now .

My battery must have been recharged over 20 times now, so next is to try top speed and acceleration. I am very-very happy with the kit.

 

[lesspedal]

Keep us updated with the results,,

 

[OneWayTraffic]

I don't get it. Haven't you effectively reduced the gearing down of the motor? So now its RPM should be less to maintain a fixed speed.

Anyway it's good to see that the kit is holding up well. It's also good to see that you can easily swap around the chainrings. I was thinking of putting this on a bike with an internal rear hub. Worried about extra stress on the hub though.

 

[zx6rj1]

Oneway, yes I got caught with that logic too before swapping the chainring.

So the best explanation is to use the cadence as reference, not the motor: When my leg powers, it now produce more spin to the back wheel due to larger chain ring, compared to what the motor gives.

It's the ratio between leg power and motor power, not the absolute "motor only" logic.

Let me know if there's a flaw in my logic.

 

[OneWayTraffic]

Oh right.

Your leg is now at a slower cadence compared to the motor.

I got it.

 

[heathyoung]

Make sure you dont get them (cyclone/headline/elation) motors wet either - they aren't water-tight (but concievably could be made to be) - I got a not-so bargain one off fleabay I had to rebuild.

 

[zx6rj1]

11/7/09
Speed conclusion !

Well, as I have finally fit the kit to my road bike, this is to record what I am achieving with the kit on the MTB. I decided not to do acceleration test etc. as they are meaningless in day-to-day operation. I think the more realistic is how it performs on long (10kph+ distance), with combination of flat and gentle undulation. My commuting route is from Chelsea through station st. to Mordialloc, then taking the ever beautiful Beach Rd (Parkdale -Mentone - Cheltenham).

No pedalling: about 15-20kph with 80% throttle and lowest gear. It is *not* comfortable to ride at this pace, as even normal bicycle can go much faster. No pedalling also means freezing cold here in Melbourne winter.

Light pedalling: 25-27kph with 80% throttle. This is a very nice pace. But roadbike riders will pass you. My average unassisted pedalling is about 22kph (with no kit installed)

Normal pedalling: 30kph with 80% throttle. This is very-very nice! Same pace as fast roadies!

Hard pedalling: 32-35kph, 80% throttle.

Exreme pedalling, and the fastest I've been is 42kph with 100% throttle. but this is not sustainable. The battery soon drop and my leg :lol:


Range

I found out that my commute tends to be Normal pedalling above (30kph, 80% throttle). Distance is exactly 17km one way. Fully charged, I would go to work no problems, but when getting back the battery would start to drop at the last 10k (frequent yellow led). I always take it easy and go slower to get the greed led. So the really good range is about 25km and dropping after that, with my pace. I have never encountered total flat with my commute (35km).


We'll see next how the kit on a roadbike perform !

 

[lesspedal]

See you soon got the hang of using the throttle and its leds.
Your range is about the same as mine, although i am 300w but i think you go a bit harder than me.
I'm interested to see how it goes on a road bike.

 

[zx6rj1]

Hi Lesspedal,

Thanks. I think it's really great to compare notes.

I spent half day retrofitting the kit to the roadbike today (kmart Schwinn 14 speed). Had to replace with flatbar since the dropbars are actually too big for throttle to fit (found that out after removing the foam ). It also only have 1 brake lever I took from my kid's old bike as temporary. But a quick spin in the dark seems to give subjective feeling of faster top speed. With the MTB the speed "ceiling" comes quicker. I'll have to do a proper commute to see what the real improvements are. Still need to move the bike computer as well.

 

[zx6rj1]

Finished the conversion. This is what it looks like:

I had to convert the dropbar to flatbar, which was its own saga. The flatbar was purchased at very pricey price of $1 from local recycler . I have yet to get proper brakes so at the moment it's taken from my kids' bike.

The donor bike is $200 kMart Scwhinn. The spindle seems slightly smaller than standard and thus I had to create shims. The previous versions which used alumunium all failed, so I need to keep an eye of the last one I made (steel).

Hopefullly we get good weather tomorrow so I can do my long commute.

 

[lesspedal]

Looks good but i think it will be raining tomorrow.
I have been thinking of getting a flat bar roadie myself, just what is the difference between a road bike and a flat bar bike ? apart from the bars and shifters.
Trev.

 

[jk1]

gday i am also from melbourne and also have an elation kit so your setup looks very similar with mine, interesting how u swapped the chain rings around... that may be something i will have to do also, 1 problem i have is that i cant remove the cranks now that i put them on, for some reason these elation cracks have slightly smaller thread than my can puller and it slips so wont come off ! have u had any problems removing the elation cranks ? what tool do you use ? the thread on my one is slightly larger diameter than a normal bike crank is that the case for you ?

PM on katsss@hotmail.com if you like

 

[lesspedal]

gday i am also from melbourne and also have an elation kit so your setup looks very similar with mine, interesting how u swapped the chain rings around... that may be something i will have to do also, 1 problem i have is that i cant remove the cranks now that i put them on, for some reason these elation cracks have slightly smaller thread than my can puller and it slips so wont come off ! have u had any problems removing the elation cranks ? what tool do you use ? the thread on my one is slightly larger diameter than a normal bike crank is that the case for you ?

PM on katsss@hotmail.com if you like

Have sent you a message.
Trev

 

[zx6rj1]

gday i am also from melbourne and also have an elation kit so your setup looks very similar with mine, interesting how u swapped the chain rings around... that may be something i will have to do also, 1 problem i have is that i cant remove the cranks now that i put them on, for some reason these elation cracks have slightly smaller thread than my can puller and it slips so wont come off ! have u had any problems removing the elation cranks ? what tool do you use ? the thread on my one is slightly larger diameter than a normal bike crank is that the case for you ?

PM on katsss@hotmail.com if you like

Hi JK1,

No, my elation cranks' thread is similiar to both my original MTB and Roadbike cranks. There is no problems in taking them off. I bought the tools from local bike shop.

One thing to make sure when using the crank puller is to make sure it's threaded the whole way in, otherwise it would just ruin the thread.

 

[jk1]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I do screw it in all the way but it still loose, its strange actually. what i wil try is the idea above to ride with the bolt loose and see if the crank wiggles its way.

how is the reliabilty of your version 1 or version 2 cranks ? have u have any problems with them slipping or bearing noises ?

 

[lesspedal]

Zx and JK,
How are things going with your elation kits.
Zx, how did it go on your road bike?
Jk, Did you solve your noise [click clack] problems?
I fitted my new freewheel , 16 klms today went beautiful,

 

[desvejk]

Hi Everyone,
My name is Des from Sydney. Just bought an eLation kit for my new Malvern Star Alcova. I'm most impressed.
quite a bit of investigation and this is a replacement from my previous Cyclone kit.
Cheers,

Des