eLation 200watt kit (Australia)

[lesspedal]

Hi Everyone,
My name is Des from Sydney. Just bought an eLation kit for my new Malvern Star Alcova. I'm most impressed.
quite a bit of investigation and this is a replacement from my previous Cyclone kit.
Cheers,

Des

Welcome Des,
If you previously owned a cyclone, would be interesting to hear your comparison betweeen cyclone and elation.
My view is that the elation has a far nicer motor attaching arrangement, the heart of the elation system is the crank set up, as well as being a beautiful looking piece of engineering, it is well thought out with the fourth 48t ring for the motor drive, the three standard 48,38,28t rings for pedalling,all the crank rings are standard bdc 104 and can be swapped in or out as required.
The single chainwheel cyclone is just one ring for motor, one for pedals.

The later cyclone versions,three chainwheels, has 44t for motor and only two for pedals, 44t and 24t, this is a big jump between chainrings, one wonders how the derailleur can handle lifting from 24 to 44,with a big bang down to 24t ring.
I find with the elation, i spend 80% of the time in middle chain ring 38t ( the one cyclone is missing). The small ring would only be for extreme hills and would not be able to pedal fast enough to keep up, large ring for occasional high speed on the flats.
Looking at elationebikes.com.au site, seems he now ships to nz, usa, canada and uk.
Anyway hope you enjoy.
Trev.

 

[jk1]

My setup is back on the road and working very good .i have to thank alan for his very quick customer service in sending me a new crank wheel .

 

[lesspedal]

Good to hear yur back on road.
I agree , Alan at elation gives excellent after sales support.
Trev.

 

[desvejk]

Welcome Des,
If you previously owned a cyclone, would be interesting to hear your comparison betweeen cyclone and elation.
My view is that the elation has a far nicer motor attaching arrangement, the heart of the elation system is the crank set up, as well as being a beautiful looking piece of engineering,
Trev.

Hi Trev

The eLation system is superior in a number of ways.
Having the full range of gears leaves your bike to perform as it was designed.
Elation's crank system delivers a rome efficient system and I agree that it is far more elegant.
The mounting and design is more robust. Component parts are of higher quality and deliver better performance.
Having said all that, I think the Cyclone does what its sets out to do. It's a simple drive assist using the chain. The motor is robust and reliable.

My problem was with the battery. I did almost 4000km on my Cyclone system and IF I could have found a reliable supplier close to home for a battery replacement I may have just upgraded the battery.

Having now installed an eLation kit on a new bike - there is no comparison and it's not a fair test of the Cyclone kit to do so.

When I looked at paying almost $800 for a LiFePO4 battery for an old system, I considered it was better economy to do a full upgrade to a new system. This is what I did and I'm very happy.

I did a fair bit of research and I came down on the side of the eLation kit. I'm glad that I did its was an excellent choice.

Cheers,

Des

 

[gibbo111]

Hi there I have just purchased a bike with the elation system . After lots of research decided this is the most efficient system available that is legal . Just love the bike. Have done a 50km ride with charge left. I'm using a200w and lifepo4 battery

 

[lesspedal]

Hi there I have just purchased a bike with the elation system . After lots of research decided this is the most efficient system available that is legal . Just love the bike. Have done a 50km ride with charge left. I'm using a200w and lifepo4 battery

Hi Gibbo,
try to keep the first 10 or so rides short to keep dod [ depth of discharge] low.
lifepo4 batts like shallow dod for first ten or so charges.
Also charge overnight, or at least 2or 3 hrs after green light comes on .
Keep us informed on how it goes
Trev.

 

[zx6rj1]

Zx and JK,
How are things going with your elation kits.
Zx, how did it go on your road bike?
Jk, Did you solve your noise [click clack] problems?
I fitted my new freewheel , 16 klms today went beautiful,

I commute using the Road e-bike for 3 months and it worked out great, except for punctures. Those skinny tyres are no good for daily commuting. See my post here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11420#p197450

I have refitted the kit back to the MTB yesterday.

 

[lesspedal]

Zx.
Good to see yur still going.
For your commute with elec assist you will probably be more comfy on mtb.
I put some liners called slimes,on my mtb, between tube and tyre,about 8 years ago , although they are simply hard material, nothing slimy about them, never had a puncture since, probably the same as amberwolf mentioned in your other thread.

I see elation is releasing a budget kit, brushed motor, still has similiar crank set up, nimh batts,$700 aud or $350 more with lifepo4, interesting to see how it goes.

Trev.

 

[desvejk]

I've had my eLation system for around six weeks and travelled almost 1000km.

The bike and and eLation kit is fantastic. I've had no problems whatsoever and I look forward to every new journey.

I comfortably travel the 52km round journey to Sydney city once each week and return with a battery showing full!

My daily trips are around 20-30km mostly with hills that I couldn't traverse before the eLation system.

The acceleration, battery life and overall performance is meeting all of my expectations.

I've added some extra weight with panniers, a handle-bar bag, tools and extras. This does not seem to be a problem, if anything it helps build my capacity and endurance. I could certainly "slim-down" the system with an expected improvement in travel time and distance.

I keep the tyre pressure above 80 psi, mainly to prevent pinch punctures.

I'd like to do some touring and when I have some time my plan is to see how far a can take the system away from base. It would be good to hear from others with their experience with touring.

Cheers,

Des

 

[lesspedal]

Hi des
I agree, i can ride wherever i want with this system.
One of the reasons i am impressed with elation is that it does exactly what the designer said it would, this is why i keep recommending it.
Btw,, I would not know alan dow from elation if i fell over him in the street.
Trev.

 

[heathyoung]

Looks like they are going back to their original roots - they used to use the brushed motor as per the ezips (unite).

Watch their video section (new inventors on ABC) - pay close attention to the motor.

There was a guy in foster NSW that also did these - epac (epacpower.com.au). Not sure of the timing etc. Brett White (yeah I know boo hiss) used to have some good info on these motors on his website (gone now) - Oatleyelectronics.com sell the motors too.

 

[gibbo111]

Thanks Trev, thanks for the tips, I met Alan the inventor at the green expo in brisbane a couple of weeks ago ,nice genuine guy . The new systems are a no frills version, probably to try to attract hub type customers with a cheaper product, but those of us that know!!!, what about carrying a 20ah battery I know twice the weight and price but it would give pretty close to double the kms, nearly 100km range with pedal input.

 

[lesspedal]

Yeah, i've often considered a ping 20 ah,.
Bit worried about shipping damage etc, also with any probs and having to send back to china.
Trev.

 

[lesspedal]

Looks like they are going back to their original roots - they used to use the brushed motor as per the ezips (unite).

Watch their video section (new inventors on ABC) - pay close attention to the motor.

There was a guy in foster NSW that also did these - epac (epacpower.com.au). Not sure of the timing etc. Brett White (yeah I know boo hiss) used to have some good info on these motors on his website (gone now) - Oatleyelectronics.com sell the motors too.

The new system is 24v, i think the version 1 on the new inventors was 36v
This new lower cost system may appeal to new ebikers who just want something reliable for commuting or the casual ride.
Trev.
Edit; Brett White is still there, www.ebike.biz

 

[zx6rj1]

$700, that's really great pricing!

What about brushed vs. non-brushed? I have little knowledge in regards to motor technology.

 

[lesspedal]

$700, that's really great pricing!

What about brushed vs. non-brushed? I have little knowledge in regards to motor technology.

Me either but i know brushed is older technology, bit less efficient and heavier and may be a little more noise but cheaper to buy, requires brushes to be replaced at some stage, easy to do.
Trev.

 

[desvejk]

I'm getting some amazing levels of interest in my eLation electric bicycle as I travel around.

A short shopping trip can arouse quite an interest and I often have people wanting to know more about the bike. All of the questions are quite genuine and very encouraging.

I sense an undercurrent of interest in eBike technology and most folk are thrilled to hear that the eLation kit is an Australian product.

Clearly the local bicycle shops are comfortable with their business model and have little desire to diversify into eBikes.

This will change when some of the bigger players start to capture the market. Already Gazelle are rolling out their eBikes into parts of Sydney and have a nation wide listing. I suspect that GIANT will also start to import their Twist models as well. There are a number of other larger manufacturers as well (SANYO has just released into the US market) as the smaller players and DYI conversion kits. It was interesting to see a YouTube clip where "Best Buy" in the US have an eBike strategy in selected stores.

It's exciting to be part of a growing development that has many positive spin-off. And it's fun - you just feel like kid again.

Cheers,

Des

 

[heathyoung]

Looks like they are going back to their original roots - they used to use the brushed motor as per the ezips (unite).

Watch their video section (new inventors on ABC) - pay close attention to the motor.

There was a guy in foster NSW that also did these - epac (epacpower.com.au). Not sure of the timing etc. Brett White (yeah I know boo hiss) used to have some good info on these motors on his website (gone now) - Oatleyelectronics.com sell the motors too.

The new system is 24v, i think the version 1 on the new inventors was 36v
This new lower cost system may appeal to new ebikers who just want something reliable for commuting or the casual ride.
Trev.
Edit; Brett White is still there, http://www.ebike.biz

So he is... http://www.ebike.biz/diybasic1.htm is the relevent page for the motor info.

36V would be a better idea from an efficiency standpoint, less current draw ~ less voltage drop due to wiring/connector resistances. The headline motor is pretty easy to convert to 36V (you need to replace a few surface mount caps) - 35V 10uf with 50V 10uf - even a store like Jaycar has these in packs of 10 for $5 or so. RPM will become an issue, so gearing may need to be rethought as well. Power will also increase, as the shunt will (0.05 Ohm) limit the current to the same value, but 15A X 24 = 360W (peak) vs 15A X 36 = 540W (peak)...

 

[donob08]

Yeah, i've often considered a ping 20 ah,.
Bit worried about shipping damage etc, also with any probs and having to send back to china.
Trev.

Trev
I have a Ping 24V, 15 Ah, Ver. 2.5 which now has been used for about 150 cycles, often with deeper discharge than I would like. It's been great. And working with Ping is real good. He answers emails in one day usually. I know from other forums he backs up his product by shipping replacements for bad components under warranty.

I'm thinking of an elation kit for my next ebike. Presently I have an eZip with about 3,500 miles of pretty happy travel behind it. My questions on the elation are:

How many teeth are there on the motors output sprocket?
What is the top rpm of the motor under load?
On the 200 Lite, where is the freewheel to allow pedaling without turning the motor? (Probably same as Ver. 1)

I'm trying to understand the cadence required to keep up with (and add to) the motor's drive at motor top loaded speed. For example if the 200 Lite Watt were like the eZip's Unite, it's loaded top end would be about 420 rpm. If it had the same 9 tooth sprocket as on the Unite, and the 48 tooth motor drive chain wheel, the reduction would be 5.33 : 1. So the pedals would turn at a cadence of about 79. That's doable. If it had Brett White's 14 tooth freewheel, the cadence would be about 120. That's pretty quick.

 

[lesspedal]

Hi Donob,
My 300w elation has 14t on motor drive freewheel and 48t ring for motor, plus 48,38,28t interchangable crank rings, motor max revs 2600.
The new v2 has a new sprag clutch, replacing the original dicta type fw
The originator of this thread,zx6rji, swapped his crank rings around to help with his cadence.
With the ezip, the motor drive to the wheel remains constant, same as hub motor, with chain drive system like elation , changing gears affects the motor revs which also effects pedaling cadence, the trick is to find the best gear that suits drive,cadence and terrain, you soon get the hang of it.
I try to select a gear that gives about 60% revs at the motor then change up a gear or two and pedal to get motor revs to 80%.


I know nothing of the 200L system except what i have read on elation site http://www.elationebikes.com.au
States fixed crank set up, meaning crank rings not interchangable and a ratchet clutch. $450aud without batt is a good price.
Suggest you email elation for answer to your other questions.
Trev.

 

[lesspedal]

Looks like they are going back to their original roots - they used to use the brushed motor as per the ezips (unite).

Watch their video section (new inventors on ABC) - pay close attention to the motor.

There was a guy in foster NSW that also did these - epac (epacpower.com.au). Not sure of the timing etc. Brett White (yeah I know boo hiss) used to have some good info on these motors on his website (gone now) - Oatleyelectronics.com sell the motors too.

The new system is 24v, i think the version 1 on the new inventors was 36v
This new lower cost system may appeal to new ebikers who just want something reliable for commuting or the casual ride.
Trev.
Edit; Brett White is still there, http://www.ebike.biz

So he is... http://www.ebike.biz/diybasic1.htm is the relevent page for the motor info.

36V would be a better idea from an efficiency standpoint, less current draw ~ less voltage drop due to wiring/connector resistances. The headline motor is pretty easy to convert to 36V (you need to replace a few surface mount caps) - 35V 10uf with 50V 10uf - even a store like Jaycar has these in packs of 10 for $5 or so. RPM will become an issue, so gearing may need to be rethought as well. Power will also increase, as the shunt will (0.05 Ohm) limit the current to the same value, but 15A X 24 = 360W (peak) vs 15A X 36 = 540W (peak)...

Think i will stick with 24v after all that, but i know your point about 36v.
Also i will try your waterproofing idea.
Trev.

 

[lesspedal]

I'm getting some amazing levels of interest in my eLation electric bicycle as I travel around.

A short shopping trip can arouse quite an interest and I often have people wanting to know more about the bike. All of the questions are quite genuine and very encouraging.

I sense an undercurrent of interest in eBike technology and most folk are thrilled to hear that the eLation kit is an Australian product.

Clearly the local bicycle shops are comfortable with their business model and have little desire to diversify into eBikes.

This will change when some of the bigger players start to capture the market. Already Gazelle are rolling out their eBikes into parts of Sydney and have a nation wide listing. I suspect that GIANT will also start to import their Twist models as well. There are a number of other larger manufacturers as well (SANYO has just released into the US market) as the smaller players and DYI conversion kits. It was interesting to see a YouTube clip where "Best Buy" in the US have an eBike strategy in selected stores.

It's exciting to be part of a growing development that has many positive spin-off. And it's fun - you just feel like kid again.

Cheers,

Des

Des,
Where i ride, not anyone around to see my bike,although when i ride past a group of people sitting out front having a few cans,see them look and can feel them thinking " look at that old codger fly".
Curious as to what type of people take an interest in your bike, age, gender etc?
Trev.

 

[donob08]

Hi Donob,
My 300w elation has 14t on motor drive freewheel and 48t ring for motor, plus 48,38,28t interchangable crank rings, motor max revs 2600.
The new v2 has a new sprag clutch, replacing the original dicta type fw
snipped
I try to select a gear that gives about 60% revs at the motor then change up a gear or two and pedal to get motor revs to 80%.

I know nothing of the 200L system except what i have read on elation site http://www.elationebikes.com.au
States fixed crank set up, meaning crank rings not interchangable and a ratchet clutch. $450aud without batt is a good price.
snipped
Trev.

Thanks Trev

Thanks for pointing out the fact that the chainwheels are fixed on the 200L. I had read that but missed that point.

I think I'm beginning to understand. It looks like the motor has a lot in common with the cyclone, although I like this setup a lot more. cyclone says top rpm 2800, gear reduction about 10. So at output top is 280 rpm. With the 14 to 48 tooth reduction, top rpm is about 80 at the cranks. So your 60% with derailer set to 38, 24 (front teeth, back teeth), for example, you would get about 10 kph at cadence 50. At 80% and 38,18 (up two) you get ~ 18 kph at cadence 65. That sounds happy. You have throttle left. On the eZip the throttle is FULL or OFF.

About 200L, I think 14 T is as small as you can go for a freewheel for the motor and then it has to be a metric, flip/flop size, so with motor output 420 rpm (UNITE) the driven wheel on the crank would have to have 70 T to put the cadence in the same range as the 200.

I'm curious how Brett White and Version 1 eLation handled this. Electrically limit the top rpm? Use about 2/3 of motor's range? That would mean setting the top PWM "on period" to 2/3. Average voltage equal 2/3 design value.

I'm interested because I have spares I bought, motors and controllers, to be sure I could keep my eZip going. This would be a better use.

 

[317537]

Looks like an awesome ride, and dont be afraid about the law, at those speeds there are a few pedal riders that will ride right past you.

 

[lesspedal]

On flat terrain, i can comfortably cruise at 35kph with moderate pedalling.
I can't keep up with my son on his [ non elec] road bike, in the end, youth wins
Trev.