Epic Battery Bag Story

[Kingfish]

Part 5: Extending the Bag

In this segment we’ll add about 3 more inches of usable length to the bag so that it can handle up to 9 batteries. The extension is very heavy duty, and serves as both expansion and structural addendum that is required to survive the dynamic rigorous loading.

In the image above we have two bags: Fully modified on the left, and our ripped-up work-in-progress on the right. BTW - the bag on the left has 9 LiPos packed inside; the balancing plugs are just slight peeking out of the unzipped flap.

Step 1: Add the front half of the extension
Let’s grab our unit and flip it over. Pin the bottom-side of the newly exposed material back out of the way; it’s kind of tricky and moderately inflexible – take your time.

With the sewing machine, run a single stich across the top of the front material face close to the edge. In the image below the bag is rotated so the top points right which is the natural direction for stitching on the machine, with the green line indicating the path. This action will secure the front flap to the front face, and when completed we can remove the staples.

Next, we cut a length of 4-inch PPE webbing about ½ inch longer than the width of the bag at its’ top ~ roughly 11 inches.

Denote the center of this length at the edge with a pen or chalk by making a small tick-mark. Flip the bag over. Center the webbing about the center of the bag very close to the plastic emblem and pin it in place as indicated in the image below. Now secure both the left and right ends so they are aligned horizontally across the top. Take care to get this piece temporarily secured and ensure the mating material is flat, stretched out uniformly, and not pinched. (The first time I did this I had some buckling on one side and had to rip the seam and re-do it; the second time I flattened it fine but the alignment was slightly crooked. Take your time.)

Flip the bag over and check the backside. Take a pen or chalk and with a straight-edge mark the edge of the webbing from one side to the other as indicated in the image below; this will be our visual guide when sewing the next path.

We’ll make two passes with the machine; one near the left edge of the webbing, and another near the right edge of the front face. With the Tacsew this was a challenge as the machine is very powerful and some skill was required to slow the beast down to prevent runaway stitching.

Notes: I tried to stay within an 1/8-inch of the edge for the left side; the right stitch alignment is not as critical. One could stitch this from the front side for a cleaner more accurate line, however the stronger material should be placed on the bottom with the weaker material in view so as to prevent puckering. With that in regard, perhaps the right inside stitch should come first… hmm, I’ll need to try that for the next set of saddle bags.

Step 2: Add the back half of the extension
This next step is essentially a rinse and repeat of the previous, being applied this time to the back side.

With the front extension completed, unpin the back side material. Then pin back the new front extension as indicated in the image below.

• Cut a length of 4-inch wide PPE webbing about 11 inches long; the key factor is that it overhangs the width of the bag slightly.
• Center, align, and secure the webbing to the back material.
• Mark the hidden edge of the webbing for use as a visual guide.
• Make two passes with the sewing machine, and inspect for completeness.

Step 3: Secure the left and right edges of the Extension.
With the back extension completed we are now ready to begin closing up the bag.

The front and back extensions should be nearly aligned if all went swimmingly well with our sewing. Misalignments up to 1/8 inch are not a big deal, however any more than that becomes increasingly cumbersome to resolve. Apologies; there are no pictures to describe the next series.

• Unpin the front flap and lay it flat against the newly-minted back.
• Check the alignment; if both pieces of the webbing are the same length this task will be made easier.

Small Note: When the two sides of the bag were ripped open there should be a dangle of Grosgrain Ribbon flapping about. There are two paths to take with this:

• Check the path where this ribbon would go if it were put back in place and remove any over-stitching that would interfere. Admittedly this is a bit cumbersome nit-picky work, and as a “completionist” it is what I did. :? However hindsight is 20/20 and I suggest an alternative: Just cut the material away at the point where the stitching ends; we’re going to be covering up the exposed seams anyways with new materials and it’s just one of those pesky time-sync details that don’t add a lot of value at the end of the day.

Secure the extensions together with pins or staples; whatever works for you; ensure the materials are well-mated and not buckling.

Run at least one stitch along each side from the point just below where the Grosgrain Ribbon ends to the top of the bag. The stitching should roughly align with the inside seam and not increase or decrease the available inside width of the bag. We are creating the pocket and that is all.

Step 4: Inspection
I recommend stopping here and examining the bag, at least for the first bag here, and testing the workmanship by loading the batteries into the bag with the open end to ensure the fit is good and proper. This will be the last opportunity to make adjustments before closing it off. Below are a couple of views of what this should resemble.

Step 5: Wrap it up.
If all looks swell, remove the batteries, lay the bag flat, and make two passes with the machine to close up the end. The excess material can then be trimmed back, and the corners rounded. Try to keep the edge of the new extension in alignment with the rest of the bag; it just makes application of the future trim pieces much easier. When completed it should look similar to the image below.

We’re done with this part; the bag has been extended.

Tips:
I struggled at first with the machine running away and wandering off the path, and if it did I was forced to stop, rip the threads, and try again. Take your time, go in short segments, check and re-check, breathe. The glove really worked out to slow the beast down.

Also I had a small covet of bobbins loaded and ready to swap out: There are few more irritating moments than crafting what you think is a perfect pass over a long area only to discover the top-thread pulling out all the way back to near the beginning. Perhaps one day a clever inventor will figure out how to provide a warning or display the length of bobbin thread remaining.

In the next part we will focus on reinforcing the bag and its’ seams in preparation for mounting.

Question: Has this information been useful? Are you bored to tears? Should I be shot at dawn?
Industrious, KF

 

[docnjoj]

Extremely literate and quite interesting but way beyond my sewing skill level.
otherDoc

 

[Kingfish]

Thanks otherDoc; that’s a good point. Let’s put a bit of reality and encouragement to it…

Anyone with a couple of hours of training on a sewing machine can to this mod. For that matter I haven’t used a sewing machine in 25 years. I wouldn’t say that I am an expert at it either; call me butterfingers. Although I admit my exposure to sewing is a bit unusual:

<Storytime mode=ON>
Once upon a time when I was but a smaller and younger lad my Mother bought a new Singer sewing machine from Sears; I’m fairly certain it was between my 7 & 8th grades. When the new machine arrived, it came with 2-weeks free of sewing lessons. My Mom didn’t need it, but I was really intrigued, especially with her skills; the woman could impressively sew all sorts of stuff! So I asked if I could go in her stead and this was agreeable to both parties.

It proved to be an advantageous arraignment for several reasons – the first chiefly being that the instructor was a drop-dead beautiful blonde bombshell; who cares if she had 5 or 8 years on me! OK, ok – OT… apologies. As for the rest of the reasons, well I’d learn how to stitch up my own machinations – which were vast. Surprisingly I was the only guy in class, or perhaps better stated as the only <ahem> rooster in the hen house: I got over it.

First item I made was a stretchy shirt, cut from a pattern sold at, and with material bought from Sears. I wore that shirt once to school, and then promptly gifted it to charity. Next I crafted a bedspread which had all the old ladies clucking away at the magnitude of the challenge. That gorgeous blonde teacher gulped at my ambition but agreed to let me have a go at it; bulky and perhaps a bit large for the machine though it was. However it came out well enough and I made use of it for many years. There was time enough left for a third and final project – and I decided upon a large bean-bag chair: very heavy gauge vinyl, beyond the capability of the machine, - and I am certain the instigator for change in the way the 2-week tutorials would be governed from that day forward. The hens of the class cackled nervously instead of clucked, and well… I broke several needles driving the material through. But I got’er done, filled it with beads, and it worked! Didn’t fit in the car though. A few weeks later the stitching started coming apart; thread wasn’t suited for the strain and I should have made an inner liner. Beads began to flow… Soon it was an outdoor piece of furniture… and then it was tossed.

Most of the sewing experience after that came from patching my levis (in a time when patched levies were cool), and some backpack repair; rugged stuff, nothing fancy.

Years later at the toy company I became involved with the softer aspects of product design. One toy in particular that was all mine from cradle-to-grave was “Little Boppers”. Here’s a vid of the commercial:

[youtube]IUvqsG_H7FQ[/youtube]

The prototype was presented to us and my job was to take it into production and craft various models. A pattern-maker, nice lady who obviously loved her job, came up with the skinning and outfits for all the units, and she’d hand over her traces to me for formalization: material callouts, grain direction, hem-width, stitching types, pleating, synthetic hair and fur, Velcro, buttons, zippers, on and on… I think my previous experiences as a dorky kid in that sewing class really paid off.

Since we’re drifting OT, let me conclude with a bit more entertaining drift. At the end of the video there is a reference to the Monster Boppers; that was my idea which came very late in production, and here’s the story:

Imagine, I am surrounded for a year by cutesy smiling little dollies ♥ in various stages of completion. I mean I had other roles and responsibilities other than LazerTag, such as Cost-Reduction on Teddy Ruxpin, lead-supporting designer on Julie… the first doll with artificial intelligence (voice recognition and other environmental sensors), Baby Muppets (product cancelled due to excessive bandwidth radiation), the GI Joe LazerTag pistol, and a host of other R&D endeavors. My cubical is in an open-bay; I inhabit a whole corner, and there is lots of interactivity and go-between with co-workers much like an extended family with both stress & fun, and inter-office games & politics. As we approach “Toy-Fair” (THE BIG EVENT of the year for any toy company held in NYC naturally) the stress levels and hours on the job climb stratospherically. Something has to give to release that pent-up angst…

Shudder: I’m staring at these @#$% dolls staring back at me during some momentary frustration about who knows gawd-what, …and I decide I’ve had enough of the Pamela-doll! Grabbing the scissors, I punk her hair into a Mohawk, paint the hair florescent green, change her make-up to Goth with a heavy black marker, rip her purple doily daisy-shirt off so it’s just the plain turtleneck undershirt dangling just above the knees, paint her hands with dabs of red marker, and hung paperclip-chains around her. There – that’s better hehe, hehehe. A buddy of mine see’s my creation and laughingly loses it; he goes and punks out his dolls too; viral - it becomes a fad.

Inspired I take the Little Bopper skeleton, rip the punked-Pamala head and hands off and mush it onto the skeleton along with her undershirt. Grabbed some modeling putty, made a knarly forked tongue, and stuck it in her mouth, paperclip chains dangling from the arms, hard-wired the toy to ALWAYS BE ON and set it loose in the open bay: “It is alive! It’s ALIVE!!” – and the first ugly monstor-bopper was born! (Perspective: The movie Gremlins had been out maybe a year so it is fresh in everyone’s minds).

With a couple of pals in tow, I show it to my boss - the Drafting Manager; the cigarette nearly falls out of his mouth “THAT is soooo cool! Let’s show it to my boss” and we did on up to the Engineering Manager; the four of us race up to his office (open-door policy on creativity and all) and we put it on his desk and fire it up: I make the sound “MHRAAAA!!!” as the creature with its’ stilted gait advances towards his smoldering cigar; his dark eyes become large as saucers, “THAT is AWESOME! Let’s show the Boss”. And on we went the five of us marching directly across the quad over to the corporate building and straight into the VP of Engineering, 3rd-potato of The Company. Big dark mahogany desk, lots of space and we set the toy down in the middle. The intelligent taciturn VP stares back at us: Again I animate the sinister sound effects, the toy marches forward with paperclips rattling away, bloodied doll hands reaching forward to clasp the next victim, and I describe how we could use lots of latex dangling off the arms, create mutated versions, …zombies …vampires …gremlins …werewolves; five of us all enthusiastic staring across at the silent VP, waiting for a reaction.

A dry moment passes. Then he says “That’s nice. Now get back to work” with complete aplomb. Confuzzled the five of us walk out with the seed of inspiration, saying to each other “well, I thought it was a great idea”, “Yeah, me too”, “Yeah, and me…” as we ambled back to our hovels …deflated. Guess what we end up making two months later: cute and cuddly fuzzy Wonderbread Monster Boppers ♥! I so want to chum. :x

- - - - - -

Look, don’t get hung up on what you think you can’t do. Anything is possible! You’re already driving a customized electric whatever; you are geniuses -> a damn-sight fricken smarter than the average bear! I’m just a goof documenting how it can be done; I make mistakes, frequently. Take from me the knowledge and make it better. Timid about sewing? Find a gal (you don’t have to marry her) and make an arrangement to bang out a bag.

For me, the more I sleep with the concept the better the stream of ideas on how to simplify the process. I know this pair of saddle bags can be improved; I’d like to make them from scratch if I could, and I probably will.

Be brave; give it a shot. That’s all I’m saying.

This assembly should be completed today, and hope to have the notes posted tonight.
Cheers, KF

 

[spinningmagnets]

#1. Keep posting. "how to's" are the best threads and the most likely to stickied, in order to help future experimenters.
#2. There isn't enough selection in triangle bags, early adopters will pay a premium for a quality product that fills a neglected niche.
#3. An affordable heavy duty sewing machine (you really only need a straight stitch) can sometimes be found quite cheap at a second-hand thrift/charity store.
#4. The "big-desk guy" needs to be Pimp-Slapped upside the head. Even if HE doesnt want to buy a "Zombie Barbie" to play with...roughly one million 13-year-olds will ask their parents to buy the $9.95 one. (remind me again, whats the parts manufacturing cost of a mass-produced injection molded plastic doll? expensive?...cheap?...I can't remember).

Every company that produces and sells trendy items NEEDS to set aside a part of their budget for a sample run of whatever pops into their designers minds. They should be given free rein to get prototypes fast-tracked by an in-house R&D shop, and everyone in the design shop should be allowed to take the first couple dozen proto's home to try out on their own kids each weekend (with a yes/no vote on Monday to produce a bigger and more polished sample for a trade show).

One of my favorite stories of a trendy-product success was when the Iraqi minister of information was on Iraqi TV saying that there are no American soldiers in Baghdad (there were), and any Americans soldiers who dared to enter Baghdad would be killed and their stomachs would be roasted. (I guess lamb stomach is a delicacy).

This one guy went to a website that put whatever you wanted onto a coffee cup (pic of the grandkids?) and he sent them a pic of the Iraqi minister with the caption "This is an Iraqi coffee cup, and no infidel will EVER drink coffee from it!". The cup was a big hit, many more were ordered, and then a friend set up a website to sell them "while they were hot". I think he sold a few thousand.

He didn't make the cups, he didn't do the image printing, and he didn't send them to customers (the image company handled everything for a fee, getting order invoices from his web-site). He did, however, get paid up front with a credit card, and allowed 3 weeks for delivery. Zombies are big this year, next year it may be something else..."The only thing thats constant, is change"

 

[Kingfish]

Thanks Spin
From what I recall the LazerTag Rifle molds were $1.5 mil each (1986 dollars), would last for 150,000 shots before needing refurbishing, and we had three sets: one in Korea, and two in Hong Kong.

With plastic injection you can craft aluminum molds far cheaper than steel for limited prototyping just as you have suggested, and at WoW we did a lot of that type of work. BTW – the big-desk guy stepped in and saved my ass later when the company began to implode – but that’s another story for another day. :wink:

Speaking of days, this one is blowing by and I need to bust-a-move and finish the bags: It’s close - we’re in labor and I want to birth this soon and get on with the next project.

Expecting, KF

 

[amberwolf]

For those without sewing skills and/or the desire to learn them, another place to go to have stuff made is costumers. At least in the USA and probably Canada, there are a number of medieval re-enactment groups that have people that do their own costumes, and usually at least one person in the area that makes and sells costumes at faires and the like. Often there are regional costuming guilds. It's likely that at least one person wouldnt' mind doing up a bag or two for the right price or trade. Barter is a common thing in such groups.

There are also other re-enactment or costuming groups in many places for science-fiction; they are less likely to accept barter but they are more likely to be interested in a battery bag project.


BTW, Kingfish: I love your toy-company stories; please insert more OTs like this in your threads.

PS: Someday I would love to pick your brain about the LT system just for curiosity's sake--back in the early 90s I made all sorts of things to go with the system for use with friends, including land mines, grenades, and shotguns. Drew up circuits and made a prototype for a shot-limiting battery pack, but by the time I had it ready, most of my friends had moved on to paintball instead (whcih hurts, and so is not my kind of fun, but apparently that makes it better for most people, for reasons I don't understand).

The idea of the battery pack was that it had a counter on it, settable only by the master referee of the game, using an electronic key and some shift registers in the pack. That counter would detect the shots fired by the drain on the pack (there was almost always just enough of a voltage dip to detect, even with new Duracells) or by a separate wire added from the trigger to some new contacts at the battery pack front end area. So you'd get say, 20 shots for each person on a team, and after that they'd be out of ammo and helpless, except for whatever grenades they were carrying (3 per person was the plan), and the knowledge of where the land mines were (1 per person, set up as a team so you all knew where theyd' be), so you could lure enemy team members into contact with the mines or your other team members.

ALso, you could take the battery pack from someone else's gun and put it in yours, to use their remaining shots, if they were "disabled" by being shot too many times. This worked with enemies or allies. It also prevented someone from becoming a two-fisted shooter just blasting away at everyone, as they'd only have so many shots even if they had a captured gun from someone else. It's no fun having someone do that from a covered positon where you can't hit them, and ending the game for everyone "unfairly". I just wish I'd actually been able to test them in the field and see how they worked for everyone--I think that it might have kept some of them from deserting the game for "not fun anymore" reasons.

The pack itself was just a vacuformed flat pack that inserted into the AA battery holder area, with an LED two-digit counter sticking out the back end, and the batteries on one side of the gun (since they woudln't fit inside anymore), with the electronics inside the battery area. Could set for up to 64 shots on each pack, after which it would drop out the relay that allowed power to pass to the gun. A modified version would've worked for the rifles. I also woudl've made one for the GiJOe version, but those I think ran on 9V batteries and only had a plain IR LED in there, not nearly as good as the Starlytes, so I never bothered. (although if you took the end cap off the GIJoe version you could havea pretty effective very-short-range shotgun kind of thing).


I also added a web-vest, with extra IR sensors on shoulders and back, plugged into a connector on teh regular sensor unit. These didn't ever work as well as I wanted them to, but I R not an engineer, so my hack of the IR sensor was probably at fault--sometimes they'd just trigger randomly, apparently from local RF noise, in the city. Not much of a problem in the foresty areas we preferred to play in (like Oak Creek Canyon, etc.). Again, I only got a couple of prototypes made, and never really got to field test them in play with a bunch of people.


The shotguns were just regular guns with a tap off of the normal IR output to a whole MESS of salvaged remote-control IR LEDs in a short piece of PVC clamped to the side of the gun, probably 50 or more, driven by a darlington-pair transistor right off the battery pack. Had quite a devastating effect on anything even vaguely in front of you within a dozen yards or so, but killed the batteries so fast that even without the shot-limiting packs you only had about 10-15 shots with them before the gun wouldn't work properly anymore. One gotcha with them is that if you were in close quarters, you could shoot yourself with it too, from the IR backscatter off objects around you. :lol:


The grenades were just 556 timers wired up as a 10-second one-shot and a (IIRC) 13khz or so multivibrator, powered by a 9V battery, and a bunch of remot-control IR LEDs poking out in all directions, stuffed into a PVC sprinkler head (so they would survive any impacts--I figured if the sprinklers survived being chopped off the pipes by commercial ride-around mowers, they should work for this). A single momentary pushbutton recessed into the former sprinkler end started the timer. Usually by the time whoever you tossed it at could locate the source of what was setting off their sensor, it would have already gone red and they'd be inactive now. Range was only a couple of feet, maybe three, and it only lasted about a minute before the battery died, but that was good enough for a one-use grenade in the game,


Land mines were similar, but they were made out of the plastic ends of paper rolls from a printshop, about 6" in diameter with a square base. Slots in the sides could have plastic tabs inserted into them to hold the contacts of spring switches apart, and you'd tie strings to the tabs and then to other objects nearby as tripwires. These used D batteries and had about 6 feet of range, and went off for 30 seconds and then latched in a shut-off mode, requiring taking the cover off to reset it (so you couldn't reuse it during the game and cheat).


I had some other ideas I never implemented, and forgot most of the details of; probalby still have them in a sketchbook someplace.

 

[Kingfish]

WoW AW! I'd love to comment, and I will shortly - but I am so pooped out right now. Bags are finished enough for me to use them tomorrow on my commute. Not ideally 100% completed though done enough to be useful. I need to mod the hardness to put in a charging tap; ran out of time tonight - and with the bike all torn down, I had to finish putting enough back together to get me on down the road.

I’ve took a bunch of pictures and I’ll be back tomorrow night putting together the Steps.

Thanks for the encouragement!
BTW - I was a bit afraid to tell you about my illustrious past. The Toy Company was one of the best and most exciting times of my tiny little life. Lots and lots of stories there we could mine.

Teasers… After the LT rifle I had my choice to lead either one of these two endeavors:

• “Fetch” – A robotic dog that would seek and find a bone and bring it back. The bone would emit an IR signal.
• “Flying Machine” – pretty much like it sounds, guided by IR signals.
• One of the R&D projects I was loosely involved with was a remote-controlled flying “Water-wiggle”. Imagine three jets of water, with an inertial gyroscope that self-righted the machine. Directional control was done at the hose. Problem: The California Drought hit right before production was to start, and due to rationing the product was cancelled. In fact – a whole line Worlds of Wonder water toys went bye-bye.
• Every day at lunch, about ½ of the engineers and designers would head to the back lot with their highly modified RC cars and race them. I still have mine on top of my headboard. There were all kinds of experimental RC projects going on; it was toyland for toy developers! We had a huge model department just for prototyping.

Oh shoot - I need to close right now; got to go eat and get ready for tomorrow.

AW, did you ever pick up a LT Starbase?
Until tomorrow, KF

 

[amberwolf]

WoW AW!

Har har....

BTW - I was a bit afraid to tell you about my illustrious past. The Toy Company was one of the best and most exciting times of my tiny little life. Lots and lots of stories there we could mine.

Oh, you can bet that there's more than a few people here that'd like to read them. I can't imagine I'm the only one that hacked WoW (and similar) toys. :lol:

Teasers… After the LT rifle I had my choice to lead either one of these two endeavors:

• “Fetch” – A robotic dog that would seek and find a bone and bring it back. The bone would emit an IR signal.
• “Flying Machine” – pretty much like it sounds, guided by IR signals.

• 
  Depending on how it flew, the latter might be interesting, but I'd've been probably more intrigued by the former. I once had one of those programmable six-wheel "tanks", whatever they were called, where you entered a program for directions via the keypad on the back. Was fun for a while, but had too limited memory to do anything really complex with it, and I had zero electronics knowledge at the time. Something-Trak, I forget after 20+ years.
  
  Shame about the water toys. Might've been some very interesting stuff coming out of all that.
  
  

  AW, did you ever pick up a LT Starbase?

  I found one at a yard sale cheap enough to get, but unfortunately it was long after my friends had gone to paintball, so I did not get it. They were still way too expensive even when I got the other LT stuff; most of that I got at KayBee and whatever their clone store was, when they had the closeout sales on all the LT stuff (Starlytes were less than $10 each eventually).
  
  I don't even have most (maybe any) of the LT stuff nowadays, except a couple of the sensors in pieces here and there. Kinda wish I still did, just for posterity and sentimentality, but I gave it to others that hopefully had fun with it (and maybe still do, or passed it on again, as that was about 10 years ago).

 

[Kingfish]

G’Morn’n AW <rub eyes, yawn, slurp coffee>
I have a little time so here’s some replies as promised:

Medieval: Probably easier to tell this tale over a pint, but that’s a good point. I also found people that specialized in leatherwork online but didn’t follow-up. In honesty – now that the bags are done (sans finishing features) and I can appreciate the actual fitting onto the frame, it would have been very difficult to shop-out and control the revisions. Also, I did try to enlist an upholsterer but he was outrageously priced and wanted to use his shop-materials which were not what I wanted (and there might have been some personal chemistry-conflict too; it was a visceral feeling that I have learned to trust). :|

Something my Mother had said sticks with me (advice I didn’t follow but should have): Make a mockup using cheap materials first. I bought the cheap materials but went ahead with the full construction after the second redesign – it didn’t play out as well as planned, and the construction was abandoned. That’s when I shifted to modifying an existing bag. There are issues with that direction as well which I shall identify at the end of the Steps.

However if you can find a seamstress – that would certainly be useful for prototyping.

LT Cracking: I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the hacking; it’s just a remote control on another protocol. Interesting side story for you:
A year before I came to the company WoW introduces the Starlyte LazerTag pistol in NYC at Toy Fair. Before we could get product onto the shelves a Chinese company knocks off a shoddy product “star blaster” or “phasor”; I don’t recall exactly, other than it was bubblegum-red and ugly. They claimed they could shoot 75 feet on the product box. Marketing comes rushing into Engineering all worried about losing market share (rightfully so and we did by being cheated, copied, and beaten to market); they ask “Can the Starlyte shoot 75 feet too?” My old mentor, a PEME & Senior Partner rubs his chin and says “Sure, if we tune it down.” :lol:

The Starlyte LazerTag Rifle could shoot 300 feet. The IR emitter put out an equivalent of 7 Amps, albeit momentarily in a 16-bit pulse train, repeated 3 times over 90 μs (at least that’s how I remember it). It had two lensing options: Wide and Narrow beam. The wide beam was designed for short range – 75 feet, whilst the narrow could project (a better term than “shoot”) over 300 feet. The scope on the rifle was the most powerful for any toy at that time, something like 3X I think, but the clever part was the illuminated reticle:

• A standard Galilean telescope, with a piece of Lexan having a scored crosshair in the center, highly polished, and a two-color LED embedded perpendicular to sight (hidden), and placed between two plastic achromatic lens so that the crosshairs would appear in focus along with the distant objects. We were the first company to contract out the construction of plastic achromats and it was used on my toy. Now about the sight: At 300 feet, you can’t see the target; the crosshairs blot it out – but if you could aim towards it the rifle could hit it. The IR emitter optics were adjustable relative to the fixed scope (ass-backards but with good reason). Let’s take a break here because I don’t want to drift too far; we can always come back as there is so much unique engineering that we put into this toy.

Shot-limiting: The LT Rifle had slow continuous mode, or rapid fire which lasted for a short burst and then need a cool-down period; the illuminated reticle would flash when the time expired (glowed red when you couldn’t shoot, and green when you could). The battery-pack limit sounds like a great idea: Was it programmable? Oh, wait - I see; that is a cool implementation!

GI-Joe models were dumbed-down Starlyte Pistols; 9V. Dead-simple electronics; mine still works. Shotgun idea has me snickering. I am glad you still have sight though; there are government rules about IR radiation. Just slightly worried for you friend in a good way.

AW, you have a massive imagination and display great ingenuity: With that bit of inspiration you would have done well in the Company Gunga Din! :wink:

LT stuff: I have at least one of every unit from the product line, some still in original boxes; heirlooms for my children should I have them. The kids used in the pictures on the boxes are the CEO & President’s kids. Kinda gives you an idea where some of these peculiar-looking models come from, huh?

Tidbit - What killed LazerTag and ultimately WoW:
The original units for the whole product line were black and sexy. About three weeks before the production run was slated to begin for the LT Pro Rifle - a kid playing LT at night at his school down in Rancho Cucamonga - California is shot and killed by a police offer who thought he was being shot at for real; two rounds from the officer’s shotgun cut the kid in two. In a mad dash, we had to convert the entire product line over to WHITE & Orange; the two most butt-ugly colors other than bubblegum red for a toy gun. I worked the longest day of my career 28 hours straight non-stop during this time to switch the plastic alloys over to white. It ruined my eyes: WoW was the last board-design job for me; after this I converted 100% to CAD.

I need to go so I’ll finish the demise of WoW later. And… perhaps more.

<do-doo! do-doo!>
Got ya :wink: KF

 

[bigmoose]

KF, I am enjoying this thread. Three of my uncles were tailors, and I also sewed as a youth. My uncle's old 1920's industrial sewing machine is still in my basement, waiting for a refresh for me to upholster my high back mower seat... I still use my sleeping bag and tent that I sewed in 1976.

That said, it would be great for you to do a missive sometime on small scale or prototype injection molding. What is required, who to go to, and some ROM costs. That would be invaluable!

 

[grindz145]

I am always frustrated when the first suggestion everyone has is to build a metal box for the batteries on my ebikes. Why? Because I want the heaviest bike around? Not sure but the bags on the xtracycle have held up incredible well. I am going to rigidly mount them with a small amount of angle aluminum and some plastic stock, but Battery Bags can make a lot of sense as you have done an incredible job documenting.

 

[Kingfish]

Part 6: Adding Reinforcement

I’d like to return to the topic at hand for a bit to bring us up to speed on the latest progress. And then we can return to the diversions ad infinitum.

In the previous step we completed the bag extension mod necessary to add capacity from 7 to 9 batteries. The goal of this step is to add reinforcement and then join the bags together.

Step 1: Add vertical support straps
The new extension already has very strong vertical support applied by virtue of layout and construction. However there is need for concern for both the front and middle sections of the bag, being fabricated with weaker materials. The solution is quick and easy.

Cut a length of 2-inch seatbelt material approximately 8 inches long; enough so that it overhangs about ½ inch on each side of the top portion of the bag. Align and secure it so that is it centered at the very bottom of the bag as indicated in the image below. I like staples over pins for securing, but use what you feel comfortable with.

Note: We are about to reorient the bags from being a camelback into a saddle bag, and the terms we’ve been using are going to get confusing to follow in the next steps. Therefore I’ve put together a little cross-reference table to help us out. Should I append a diagram, or can you figure it out without a Tagamet? :wink:

Camelback    Saddlebag
----------------------
Top          Front
Bottom       Rear
Front        Outside
Back         Inside
Side         Top or Bottom *
* Depending on whether we are working on the Left or Right bag

Clear as mud?

Next, measure the midpoint of the bag, and again cut a length of the 2-inch seatbelt material with about ½ to 1 inch overhang. My gut feeling is that we will need a little more because the front of the bag is already supported by the stitching across three sides. The extra length will eventually become stitched in with other assemblies.

Tack the two straps in place with a single stitch as shown in the image below. It’s doesn’t have to be perfect or pretty; just be careful and avoid mistakes. Inspect your work and ensure that the stitching is along the existing seams and does not impinge upon the precious storage capacity.

Now comes a difficult part; there’s no other way to describe it. The jury is out whether this task is necessary since in later steps these seams are covered up except for one side. However let me just explain what I did, and if you discover a better way then please comment. May I direct you to the image below.

Note the start of the edge-seam for the 4-inch webbing. We need to seal this off to prevent it from debraiding, and we’re going to use some Grosgrain Ribbon. I found it to be one of the more challenging and colorfully-vocal moments of construction: Depending on whether the original Grosgrain Ribbon was snipped off, or integrated, what you need to do is add new Grosgrain Ribbon to the edge, enough so it overlaps about ½ inch, curling it over so it wraps evenly on both sides. I won’t kid you: This was a bitch. I found that if I could tack the end down that I could control the folding and alignment with a bit of tension as I slowly sewed along the Grosgrain Ribbons’ edges. The first ones were messy but I quickly became adept by the time I got to the second bag as close examination will reveal.

The second bag came out way better than the first! Outside and inside faces shown below.

The final strap to add is the horizontal flap (for lack of a better term) which ultimately becomes the top of the bag, and is used to join the two halves together. The image below shows it secured in place. A little note: I have mine butted to the front of the bag (on the left) and short by about 2 inches on the rear (right side). The design bag is kind of long for my frame so I am cheating a bit because I need to leave room at the front of the bike for the handlebars to clear and to mount the controller. The seat tube will rise on up through that 2-inch clearance; I know this from copious measurements. Thus is the explanation for my madness… if that makes any sense.

Below is the outside view; I wouldn’t want to deny you a visual! And a close-up after stitching in place. Say, that’s looking kind of tacky don’t you think? Hmmm, whadda ya think we are gonna do about that?

Step 2: Beatification & Trim
By now I bet there’s a lot of dangling little threads and debraiding edges. A clever bag maker would have a torch or electric knife handy. I had an old Zippo. Gets hot real quick too! Trim all the loose threads and frilly crap off. Then flame the edges and threads with a torch to burn them back and seal them from becoming a future mess. In truth, I’ve been flaming mine as I go along. Now is a good time to stop and clean up your act! Build the habit; clean as you go, ship-shape and Bristol fashion. Snap to it lad! :wink:

Let’s take some 1-inch wide webbing, and starting with the front of the bag and leaving a bit of overhang, we are going to apply trim over the seams. This process adds several beneficial & structural enhancements: We are reinforcing the existing seams, we are integrating the straps in the inside with additional support, we are covering up our sloppy sewing (very important that bit), and we are also adding more material for fastening - more fastening! Ha, slipped a pun in there I did, yes... well <ahem>

Note: When I applied the trim, I placed a single stitch directly over the existing seam for maximum effect. The rest of the edge can flap in the wind, until the next step. Just a friendly reminder: Single stitch directly over the original seams at this time.

Step 3: Fitting
There are no pictures for this step; it is really a sanity-check for our assemblies. After you finished getting one bag to this point, go and make another bag in the same manner – except put the horizontal flap on the opposite side so that you have matching mirror pairs, alright? :wink:

Then I would take the two halves and make like you are going to join them, though instead staple them in place best that you can. Drape the assembly over the top tube and ensure that the lengths will work out.

Cautionary note: The flaps will be stout strong and resist bending. Do not be discouraged. All will be right in the end. We’re just doing a quick check and looking to be sure there are no glaring mistakes because once we join the bags – that’s it: Done.

Step 4: Joining
Remove the bags from the bike and lay them flat on the table. Remember that extra bit of trim flapping? If we’ve done it right, we can tuck one edge of the seatbelt material under the flap and between the opposing seatbelt, snug up against seam. The extra flap will work to nicely and neatly join and reinforce the mating. The end result should look like the image below where I am about to make a pass straight down the middle.

ADDENDUM: Although not visually indicated, place one single stitch-pass along the inside edges of the left and right trim, and three passes straight down the middle. This effectively binds the webbing and the seatbelts together securely.

I went ahead and added more trimming as is displayed in the next image. At the rear of assembly, where the top bar pops through, I put a 2-inch strip of trim and wrapped it around; beefed it up. Also there’s a horizontal piece of trim across the length of the front. All overhanging ends were wrapped around and stitched into place. You may notice below a slight difference between the two bags: Blame it on low blood sugar. I never made one of these before and it’s not like I had a roadmap… Yours will turn out better, I’m certain of it! :wink:

Backsides. Can you see room for improvement? What if we did the middle strap later in the construction so it was one piece? Notice on one bag I put the horizontal flab above the original seam (left), and on the other I put it below (right). Which looks better? Yeah, lots of ways to improve.

In the next part we will mount the bags to the bike.
Duly so. KF

 

[Kingfish]

Replies to my pals!

BigMoose: It’s been many years since I have designed plastics parts. However I will dig about and see if some information is available for public consumption. I received my plastics certification back in 1984 when I was designing consumer telephones out of Santa Clara. Short off-beat story: We built a digital speed dialer that was faster than the Government specification; just one phone for the engineering bay. It was the “contest phone”, and we used it to beat other callers for requesting music and not for prizes; that would have been completely unethical. :lol:

The actual design guidelines though are thick as a tome. Maybe if you scoped out what you’d like to see. There’s lots of different types of plastic out there, and different methods of manufacturing. I once took a job working in Production at a plastic-injection house in San Jose – midnight shift cos I was going to school in the daytime. It was useful experience because I saw exactly how parts were made first-hand, and how the alloys were blended in the field. However I also discovered a very odd flaw with my physiology, that I could be hypnotized by repetitive movements, such as the opening and closing of the massive hydraulic presses. Not exactly a good thing to suffer from. I had to quit after a month; it was turning me into a Z O M B I E…

Grindz: Thanks friend for the kind compliments; much appreciated!

More to come: We have one last segment to complete, and I will post that tomorrow.
Cheerios, KF

 

[amberwolf]

LT Cracking: I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the hacking; it’s just a remote control on another protocol.

I never really looked into the pulse train or anything, just did a frequency check on a scope while I had access to the DeVry lab thru a friend still going there (I'd known him when I was attending), and found it around 13Khz IIRC. I just stuck a 4049UB oscillator together there in the lab with an IRLED off a remote control someone had left in the lost and found junkbox, and verified it worked with the regular chest/belt sensor to set it off. Also that if I just kept feeding it the signal, it would keep going off one LED after another, until it reached "yer ded".

I'm kinda surprised that it worked at all, if it was an actual data pulsetrain!

That's what led me to the grenades and landmines idea. Mostly what I wanted was to know how to make more guns, becuase I couldn't afford the Starlytes at that time (not yet on clearance) but the sensors could be had cheaply enough. Once I was armed with the frequency then I could set them off with any IRLED device at the right range. Had no idea how to make it work at greater ranges, as I knew nothing of lenses/etc at the time, beyond basic homemade refractor telescope stuff. (using existing lenses from other things).

Then the rest of the LT stuff started going on clearance at KB/etc, and I began collecting all I could afford, to equip teams of friends so I could play. (no one else wanted to buy it and maintain it, just play, so....). Then the grenades, mines, shotguns, etc started idea germination in my head, and the rest I've babbled about already.


I vaguely recall some similar system but never tried it that I can recall. Only one I did try out was Photon, in their setup/buildings, and I guess it was ok, but it was heavy and unwieldy, and there were too many "sharks" that knew all the little tricks that would play just to win, instead of playing to have fun, and they'd drive away all of us that just wanted to run around illuminating each other. Some of them were mean, and actually pushed people around; most of those were kids but some were grown men and ought to know better. The establishments didn't seem to care, either, since they were regulars they paid more than we did as one-timers...guess the establishments didn't realize that the REASON they had so many one-timers is BECAUSE of these regulars and their attitudes of "owning" the place by dint of being regulars. Woulda been a lot more repeat customers if it werent' for that.


I had one rifle, and that was a white one. I liked the sight a lot compared to the starlyte, although i ended up having to dim down the LED in it (used an external pot for manual, and a switch to go to auto-dimming in darker environments with a CdS sensor) because the glare kept me from seeing ANYTHING at night thru it, when we played in the dark.

Speaking of which, another guy had been playing with NearIR photography, and found that all CCDs are sensitive to it...so he made some little "nightvision" sights that could clamp to the top of any starlyte or the rifle. I think there were about 8 of them, I still have one somewhere around here. The first was made from salvaged B/W 3/4" CRTs from those big old "handycam" type of VHS cameras, and a video feed from a CCD salvaged out of a digital still camera that had a video out cable port (but was otherwise pretty badly damaged). He made some circuit that periodically put the digicam into display mode so that it wouldnt' auto-power off, and he took the IR filter off the CCD. So you could see any starlyte activity anywhere in the area when it was dark. Great for moonlight playing.

Later he made the other 7 or so of them out of those old Mattel (or whoever--playskool? Cant' remember) kid's video cameras--the ones that recordded to cassette tape. Bashed them down to absolute minimum electronics, down into the little long box to clamp to the starlytes. They worked even better than the first version, more sensitive by far. SO much so that they culdn't be used in twilight, or they'd wash out.

Shot-limiting: The LT Rifle had slow continuous mode, or rapid fire which lasted for a short burst and then need a cool-down period; the illuminated reticle would flash when the time expired (glowed red when you couldn’t shoot, and green when you could). The battery-pack limit sounds like a great idea: Was it programmable? Oh, wait - I see; that is a cool implementation!

Odd; the scope of the rifle I had (white plastic) only ever lit up kind of orange-red, but it did seem to have that cool-down period. I got it secondhand so I never had a manual for it, and assumed it was something wierd with it, like just overheating due to age or abuse or something.

The pack I was prototyping basically just used shift registers to program it; I forget exactly what I did (schematics are buried around here someplace, I'm sure). I do recall it just put those shift register outputs into a numeric LED driver chip to drive some dual-digit displays (chip and display salvaged off of old cable converters from what was then Dimension Cable, when they put a hammer thru the top and tossed them out by the truckload; that's where I also got my remote control IR LEDs and bajillions of brand-new Duracell 9V and AA batteries*).


Anyway, the LEDs just showed how many shots you had left. A separate counter programmed by the shift register told the LED drivers what to show, and decremented by every pull of the trigger.

There is some bizarre reason I used the shift register since I can think of several ways to do it right now taht would be simpler, but I cannot remember what it was. MIght simply have been that i already had those parts around, for all I know.

The relays I used came out of discarded office telephone equipment (Executone, another buisness in teh same complex as Dimension, that also smashed and tossed out lots of electronics) and those cable boxes. So did most of the parts used for these things. No PCBs, just deadbug wiring to chips glued to metal support strips mostly cut from the cable box housings.

GI-Joe models were dumbed-down Starlyte Pistols; 9V. Dead-simple electronics; mine still works. Shotgun idea has me snickering. I am glad you still have sight though; there are government rules about IR radiation. Just slightly worried for you friend in a good way.

Who said that? **squints and looks around** :lol: Government emmission-limit rules are for sissies.

I dunno...I never had any problems because of it that I am aware of; though I suppose it could cause longterm effects I wouldn't notice. Not like we used them much, or for long. Heck, the IR spotlights I built (again out of buckets of salvaged remote-control LEDs) for NearIR CCD recording and security camera stuff would've been much more dangerous, as they were on all the time, and I'm sure I stared into them for minutes or more at a time while setting them up. :|

FWIW, a long long time later, I found that CDRW and DVDRW lasers could be used for VERY long range IR transmission, even without anything extra in the way of optics, and would probably have been my next way of improving the LT stuff if I had still had any reason to be doing it. I think that would ahve been pretty dangerous, as people have used some of the lasers out of faster-burning DVDRW drives to set stuff on fire, when it's within inches or less of it. I probably would've actually hurt myself with that stuff.

AW, you have a massive imagination and display great ingenuity: With that bit of inspiration you would have done well in the Company Gunga Din! :wink:

Unfortunately most places dont' want that kind of imagination, and the places that do want it don't want someone like me (at least, nowhere I have ever tried to get into over the years--I don't interview well at all; I'm much better in text).

About three weeks before the production run was slated to begin for the LT Pro Rifle - a kid playing LT at night at his school down in Rancho Cucamonga - California is shot and killed by a police offer who thought he was being shot at for real; two rounds from the officer’s shotgun cut the kid in two.

We almost had an incident like that ourselves. Me and my friends were playing after sunset in the orange groves over at Glendale Public Library's park area, and apparently some old lady had called the police saying that there were strange men running around shooting each other with Uzi's (so the cops said to us when taking our info afterward). Fortunately the first one of us they ran across was so frightened of them with their guns drawn and flashlights in his face that he just put up both hands by instinct and froze.

THey could clearly see that there was no gun, just the starlyte, so they just got on their bullhorns and called the rest of us out, to tell us it was time to stop and go home before anyone got hurt for real.

What might've been a few weeks later, Glendale passed their no-gun-shaped-objects-in-public-parks ordinance, which included even supersoakers and stuff. Cant' blame them, as we werent' the first to almost get shot over something like that. Not all that much later the federal guideline/law/whatever about red or orange front ends on toy guns was passed.

BTW, I'd been hiding under a tree just out of a patch of moonlight (full moon) waiting for someone to come by so I could ambush them...good thing it wasnt' ME that they'd come across first, or I might not be talking to you now.

 

[Kingfish]

Data Pulse Train: That’s how we discriminated between different IR emitters between toys; you wouldn’t want LT controlling your TV and vise-versa

Photon: Yeah – you have it correct; that’s the name of the cheap knock-off. :x

LT Reticle: Now that I think about it, it was a two-color LED with four states: Red = ON, Green = ON, Red & Green = ON, and all = OFF. The Red & Green provided the third orangy color. They were pretty new technology at the time. Figure that SMT was still in its’ infancy; in 1984 at the phone company I was designing small PCBs where the silicon dies were wiring-bonded directly to the circuit board due to the height constraints – and that was pretty cutting edge high-tech stuff. 8)

Radiation: Yer a very lucky man AW. At progressively higher doses it would feel like eye-strain at first, then itchy eyes, then like sand was thrown in your face, and then face-down in the burning sand with eyes-wide open. The good news is that your eyes, like your mouth and liver, heal and recover at the fastest rates in your body for good reason: Survival depends on them. IR is forgiving; like sunburn. Visible and UV are less so as the wavelength shortens. Too great or too frequent exposure though will lead to scaring and blindness. 8) 8) 8) hint hint

Glendale: Scary. Brings home the point… Who is responsible: Gun manufacturers or the gun users? We can design a great toy, but it you use it maliciously or carelessly are we the developers to blame? I design a hammer, you buy it and kill your wife with it that night; who is at fault? Let’s paint all hammers orange because we obviously can’t save ourselves from deviate hammers. That’s intelligent.

Personally I think it would be more effective and prudent policy to cut out high-quantities of corn syrup and artificial sweeteners from the consumer diet. But that’s me thinking out loud.

LT Starlyte Pro lore:

• The scope at the point where you look in, has a plastic mounting ring molded in so that an extension could be clamped or slipped into place. This allowed adults a better viewing angle. I came up with the idea, drew it all up, although was not put into production – mainly because the company folded before we could ship it.
• The Batteries, I think they are C-cells - are all inserted in the same direction: Curious, I investigated why batteries are always flipped around It’s because it saves $0.01 in cost of assembly. Silly, but that’s the reason. At my urging, we spent the extra $0.01 to have a wire go from one end of the battery compartment to the other.

More? This thread should have branched; we're committed now ~ or should be :wink:
Need to blast off soon: One last part and some errata to post.
Have a rockin' day, KF

 

[Kingfish]

Part 7: Mounting

In this segment we will do some prep-work to ready the bike and the bag for mounting, and then we will do just that. :wink:

Step 1: Attach Bag Fasteners.
Were I a clever and experienced saddle bag maker I would have an excellent solution ready to pamper you with, however – I have not done this before so I took a lazy way out and applied Velcro along the perimeter: Now you know what the extra floppy web trim was for. Velcro is not ideal, but it will do in a pinch. Better would be leather straps that we could cinch down with buckles. Next time.

Now I’m not going to tell you how to sew Velcro in a dot-to-dot manner as I have done with the other aspects of this series. However I will say that Velcro is incredibly slippery, completely ornery, and loves to migrate during sewing. The image below shows two sides, with one indicating where the Velcro completely walked away from the seam on the right. Frustrating stuff; take care and go slow.

Step 2: Inspect the bike for potential cable conflicts.
I have two bike frames and they both have unique issues that pose challenges to mounting saddle bags across the top tube. The Felt Compulsion (P1) is free and clear of cables on the top, though the down-tube has one pesky cable on the bottom, with two more in the inside – but they are not a concern. Likewise, the Specialized Rockhopper (P0) has two cables on the bottom of the down-tube, and a pesky cable along the length of the top tube.

Lucky for our design, the bottom cables are not an issue! However – the top tube cable will require a solution. Let’s make a cable cover and secure it in place.

I am a brewer, and I have a bunch of tubing that just so happens to be the exact size that I need. Not sure where a person could locate this anywhere else so here’s the simple plan: Find a homebrew supply store and purchase a “3/8 inch racking cane with tube”. If you pay more than $8 yer getting ripped off. I don’t think I paid more than $5 for mine. You can also purchase these as separates: cane and tubing. However the cane needs to be 3/8-inch and the tube needs to match, and it you go this route don’t buy more than 4 inches of tubing!

Next, wipe down the top tube with alcohol to remove grime and oil. Then take the straight part of the cane and measure the distance required to cover the cable between the cable housing retainers. Mine was about 14 inches between the retainers. Mark the cane with a pen; I went a smidgen longer than required so I could file it down to fit.

Remove the cable up to the point of the top-tube. Cut the cane; I used pipe cutters, and I finished off the ends for a snug fit.

With the tubing, cut about two inches of length twice, and then slit it along the axis so it spreads open. Use scissors to cut out about a 1/8 inch gap; this will become our sturdy wrap to hold the cane in place with the retainers. Take your time; adjust the fit as required.

My cable has tiny o-rings that hold it up against the top tube. Lightly lube the inside of the cut cane with silicon or light oil, then re-string the cable through the cane, back into the cable housing, and secure it to whatever piece of equipment that it affects. Apply the tubing as a wrap to align and restrict the movement between the cane and the retainers as indicated in the image below.

As you can see the cane is almost exactly the same size as the cable housing retainer.

We’ll finish off by securing the cane and tubing with black duct tape. I used many wraps under tension, and testing periodically to ensure that the assembly didn’t move about. When finished it should look like the image below. It looks like a lot of work for a little thing, but trust me – it’s worth it.

Step 3: Reorganize the wiring.
I don’t really need to tell you what to do here other than - make it fit between the bags and don’t let it bunch up in knots; flatten and spread the wiring out so that the two halves of the bag can come together – and thus narrowing the overall width of the final assembly. Below is a picture of my rat’s nest. Lovely ain’t it? :lol:

Notice the hydra-head of spaghetti arcing down towards the ring gear: In my implementation this is going to get stuffed in the bag. Your wiring is likely different. I reoriented my controller as indicated (partly hidden: easier to see this in the final assembly), and the DC-DC converter is on the flip-side.

Step 4: Wire the bags.
There was already a bundle made up for my Ortleib bags, thus instead of spending time on a Sunday evening I simply recycled and reused one of them. It is not ideal, however it is also one less APP connection. If you go this route, some panning and dexterity is required. First, I cut two slits on the inside face near the top of each bag close to the center; a hole large enough to shove my finger through. Then I stuffed ½ of the wires into the side as shown in the image below, leaving the other half free and clear. Again this is not an ideal setup but it has its’ advantages when it’s not a pain in the rump.

Step 4: Stuff the bag with batteries into one side.
With exception to the most-forward battery, all batteries will be placed on edge as indicated in the next two pictures. The one below illustrates that I have grouped batteries into clusters of 3, with the bullet connectors facing towards the center of the bag. The forward-most battery lays flat, and I wiggle them into the bag, wiring at the top, with balance-connectors free, and not crimping or in potentially damaging positions. Just before the batteries disappear into the bag - complete the connection to the cable. Then repeat the procedure for the next cluster of 3 batteries. The last cluster is tricky; I load the middle battery last since it fits right where the zipper is.

Now we have one side loaded into the bag. Lift the bag assembly and place it on the top tube. I used the pedal on the far side (chain ring side) cocked around into a position where it could help hold the bag up. A second person would really be useful here as well. The image below shows how this looks. The green arrow shows where the cable passes into the right-half of the assembly. We trade convenience of assembly for integrity of connection; pick your pleasure.

Now we need to stuff the wires through the other side of the bag; not difficult to do, however the next part is.

While carefully balancing the whole shebang, repeat the battery-stuffing process and cable connecting. Being colorfully vocal is acceptable. I was quite creative and certain that I mastered cursing in several foreign languages. As I said, a second person would be quite useful. Or, a separate battery harness that joined on the inside. The pic below shows the completed task, though not yet fastened down to the frame.

Just a small note: I took the opportunity and applied a dash of black paint (hi-temp flat black was handy) to the controller wiring so as to hide the exposed wires, and to the seat post to cover the years of abuse; helps the bike retain some stealthy quality. :wink:

Step 5: Fasten in place.
Having used plenty of Velcro Hook around the perimeter of the bags in Step 1 had has left me with a copious supply of Velcro Loop for making little strips that will be used to fasten the two bags in place. The saddle bags will be stiff and difficult, but they will stretch with time; after a few rides over cobbles & potholes everything tightens down snugly. Just apply strips as needed around the front, bottom, and rear seams for joining. The front of the assembly is a little wide, however as the bags move together towards the rear the assembly becomes more narrow.

The view below is taken immediately after my first day of commuting. The batteries in the rear have stretched the webbing and seated themselves well. I also put the stretchy robe back onto the bag to pull in the puffy bits.

Top View: Thick at the front, with narrowing towards the rear. The forced perspective is a little deceiving as the crank-arm clears by about ½ inch on each side.

That’s all folks!
<drum roll & crash cymbal>

Where to now Clyde?
There are still fancy details and possible revisions left for the saddlebags; I hope to get to that discussion shortly. Riding, performance, review, and Errata next.

Bagged, KF

 

[amberwolf]

When dealing with stuff you expect to have a hard time with keeping aligned during sewing on a machine, I find it really handy to first tack it down with some manual stitches, like one every inch or two, just quickly pass-knotted back under the previous one for tension.

I first started doing that when sewing fur together (first for Tribbles to sell and give away at conventions, then for fur accessory bits and bags and whatnot for medieval costume stuff). Works for velcro, too, and for any kind of edging on stuff, especially when making rolled edges on things like bags. Never *made* bags from scratch, but I have repaired a number of backpacks and other carry bags that I could not find a suitable replacement for as they wore out; a couple of them ended up after years of this looking rather like the Partridge Family bus or the Millenium Falcon in their patchiness. :lol:

 

[Kingfish]

Thanks AW; tacking definitely has its’ advantages and should have been used it more frequently.


Performance Review & Errata
If ever there was a week to test a battery bag…

This last week has been rather horrible as weather goes here in the Pacific Northwest. We have had torrential rain, T-Storms, wind storms, and sleet combining to create very challenging driving conditions with runoff, standing pools of water, and woody debris along the margins that double as bike-lanes naturally. :x

This has also been the same week that blew out the valves on my old Rock Shox. And to add to that woe one of my APP connectors melted leaving me without power. Fortunately I was less than a mile from home and spent the evening building a new harness. Finally, the Velco fastening was not working out at all; it was a temporary solution to begin with – just more so than expected. Yesterday was dedicated to replacing the perimeter with more durable fastening.

In short: The bag has been exposed to rigorous field testing, and modified accordingly.

Allow me to list What Worked Well:

• Containment of Batteries: They don’t move a lot inside the bag, although after a week of buffeting the batteries have settled in nicely.
• Protection from Elements: Dirt, wash, sleet have not had an impact.
• Mounting & Support: Strapping has displayed no signs of wear, although the rough edges needed a bit of attention (melt small fringes to arrest abrading). Mounting worked well-enough though not long lasting.
• Location/Placement: Definitely better bike performance from having a more centralized distribution of mass which aids in maneuverability and traction; hardly any FWD slippage now. Braking and turning took a bit of re-learning, but that is all.

And Not-So-Well:

• Not Water-proof: Though not soaked, clearly the bags are getting wet; damp in the front and “sweaty” at the webbing extension.
• Mounting tenuous: The Velcro system won’t last the winter – and probably not the month either.
• Width: The bags are wider than anticipated, although the pedals and crankarms do not rub. With a little practice on form, the legs don’t rub either. I am looking to replace my baggy rain pants with higher quality better fitting gear to remove the distraction.

Errata:

• The 4-inch PPE webbing is not water-proof nor water-proof. By itself, water does not affect it. However it is porous ever so less than a screen door; a discovery made after the bags were mounted. To deter or impede water intrusion I applied a coat of boot sealant otherwise known as Bee’s Wax to the entire external area, and extra-heavy at the webbing. Then took a heat gun and warmed the surfaces for this to blend into the materials, followed by a second coat. After a week of nasty weather the contents were still getting damp-to-wet. After all the mods were completed I applied a third most-liberal coat, paying particular attention to the rear of the bag.
• Had I known this would have been an issue the Vinyl-coated Polyester would have been used in place of the 4-inch PPE webbing.
• The padding on the internal sides of the bags is excessive and contributes to the extra overall width. A redesign from scratch using 1/8-inch thick High-Density Closed-Cell Foam would reduce this trait.
• The Fox shell is water-repellant but not water-resistant. A redesign from scratch using preferred materials would reduce or eliminate water seepage.
• Use of the Grosgrain Ribbon was a bust; more work than it was worth.
• Use of Velcro was a bust; however for prototyping I believe that it was necessary to confirm presumptions of design.
• The black 1-inch wide PPW webbing could have been increased to 1.5 inches to reduce rework; this problem would not appear in production.

Up next: Additional Mods.
More shortly, KF

 

[dogman dan]

Those turned out really nice!

Here's my latest effort, able to hold 30s 10 ah.View attachment 1

definitely not as discreet, nor as easy on the crotch if I have to dismount.

 

[neptronix]

Those turned out really nice!

Here's my latest effort, able to hold 30s 10 ah.View attachment 1

definitely not as discreet, nor as easy on the crotch if I have to dismount.

Amazing what can be done when pedaling is taken out of the picture!!

Dogman, You make me want to move to lower Colorado or maybe even NM. It rains far too often and too randomly here. Reduces a lot of options for eBikes, such as making a non-rainproof battery box, drill holes in a motor for cooling, ETC..

lucky bastid

 

[Kingfish]

Thanks Dogman
Q: Your bike looks to have more travel in the front. What size is that shock?


Additional Mods:
Two elementary modifications were made to the bags to keep them functional.

1. New Wiring Harness
2. Fastening System Removal & Replacement

Harness:
Inherited from continuous modification and tack-on components, the old assembly proved to be faulty and evidently was shorting across the same-polarity contacts due to wear & tear. In reality there wasn’t a dedicated solid connection for charging the bags since last winter. Below is a Before-picture where I manually broke the connection between the controller and the batteries for the last week.

Lower-left: Actually the two wires dangling down are hooked up to my Meanwell Assy (not shown), although this is where I would make the break.

The source of the problem was the DC-DC converter addition (on the backside & not pictured) that was made last June which compounded a previous connection frustration. Schematic below illustrates the connectors-gone-wild conundrum.

APP = Anderson Power Pole.

All these little connectors may be convenient, but for each one there is a large potential for failure and a reduction in current. In addition, I am not entirely convinced that 45A APP connectors can take constant battery current, especially when I am only pulling 2 hp between 54-63V (probably a good candidate for an OT discussion/fume). The second picture below displays the new harness with dedicated & robust branching forward and back.

Looks like 8 AWG; felt like 8 AWG. Regardless: It's heavy-duty man!

I can remember drawing with crayons. Not much has changed...

After this mod I could hook up the charger off the rear-facing pigtail which I had stowed up inside between the halves. But then even this arrangement was not ideal and quickly grew tired of fishing out the connection. :?

Pretty, huh? Definitely ready for the next mod.


Fastening System R&R:
As I hope can be ascertained from the images, the Velcro thing just didn’t pan out at all. Originally the two bags were to have Velcro on all four sides but the dynamic mass and security got me to thinking and I changed my mind at the last minute, opting to sew the bags together instead (Wise Mind: Buddha would be proud). This worked fine for the P0 frame, however the P1 frame top tube varies in width as it travels from front to back; a detail that requires attention during construction, or perhaps a source of inspiration for alternative methods of joining.

Regardless, the Velcro was a magnet for debris. The loop straps were removed easily enough – not being sewn in place. The hook parts though were cut away where they impinged upon where new webbing was added. The rework essentially removes the Velcro and replaces it with nickel-plated brass grommets.

Most of the front and bottom sides had enough room to mount the grommets. However the rear of the bag was a bit tight. Using the 1-inch PPE webbing, I added about ¾-inch of flashing along the rear and bottom of the bag where the 4-inch PPE webbing was applied. The grommets were spaced roughly 1.5 inches apart; it was all pretty much by eye-ball.

Note: Punching through that webbing was tiring – and not one ever completely punched through; have sharp X-Acto knives ready to complete the task. :wink:

The front of the bag has a pair of grommets dedicated to prevent the assembly from creeping towards the rear and nudging up against the seat post. When this happens it reduces the clearance for the pedals. Grommets along the bottom were used to pull the two halves together tightly; something that the Velcro could not maintain. The grommets in the rear simply secure the bag in place and prevent sway, bounce, and wobble.

I used about 1.5 yards of 5mm shock cord, black with luminous/reflective-stripes, to secure the bag in place, threading it like a single shoelace. The ends were terminated by the little plastic compression clips; not the most ideal but good enough for today until I can sort something else out.

All greased-up to go!

There’s still a bit more to do with this prototype; I should like very much to add some HDPE sheeting either white or yellow where the stretchy cross-rope is applied, and perhaps finish it off with a splash of illumination such as been explored with the LED Lighting: Accent Coloring thread.

In all, it’s been quite a functional (if not laborious) experiment. I hope to add more details soon.
Cheers, KF

 

[dogman dan]

Shocks on that bike are nuttn special. cheap but alloy. I'm not sure, but I think only 80 mm. On the mongoose blackcomb, the frame allows more space than you need, often folks attach some batts to the bottom of the frame. I mounted the box high, so pedaling could happen without hooking your toe on the box. bowlegged pedaling that is.

No thread on the bike yet, till it gets more finished. Still not sure if it will be a rear hub death race bike or a dirt rider. Having some issues with my 2810, so it may go streetstyle with a 2807.

Winters are sweet here, but not so sure the summers are worth it. The smart ones pile up money and spend the summer where you are, and winter here.
Boxes like in my pics wouldn't be hard to waterproof, but I leave em open so i can quick change the lipo.

 

[nechaus]

i reckon you could make some awesome bags from laptop bags..

Could you paint with resin the bottom of a falcon ev bags to give it stiffness?
Would it just crack ?

 

[Kingfish]

i reckon you could make some awesome bags from laptop bags..

Could you paint with resin the bottom of a falcon ev bags to give it stiffness?
Would it just crack ?

On laptop bags: I looked high and low and couldn't find exactly what I wanted, and ended up modifying the camelbacks... hence this thread. It is certainly unexploited territory.

- - -

Ref: FalconEV 19" triangle bag

Resin epoxy when properly blended and cured would create a rigid substrate, and therefore would crack if unsupported. However, you could fetch a piece of HDPE of the likes that I used to construct fairings and add that to the bag to provide stiffness, yet be flexible when required by shock. HDPE is lightweight and has a soapy-like self-lubricating slickness to it. I’ve used it to stiffen the sides of the custom trailer. Far less messy than epoxy too

Best, KF

 

[danjpendleton]

that looks awesome!!! nice job seriously