[EU]Looking for a reliable conversion kit
- Thread starter Akologi
- Start date
Akologi
100 mW
250 watts is it, as others mentioned 250 watt motors can run on more watts based on the controller you are using, the peak is 600watts whats allowed, but if you buy an ebike or something and the police checks up the brand on the web, or inspects the motor, it has to be designed for 250Watts. Like it has to be written on it. Higher wattage on a 250 watt motor do of course work, but depending on the quality of the motor it can affect how long the motor lasts/can cause it to overheat etc)I thought Austria have 600W power limit (the link by @Gruesome too says so) ?, am I in Austria & you not ?
Then 2x 250W motors should be okay ? & along with it a better redundancy
Also i did some research today, and figured(at least from how i understood it) that 2 Motors are potentially illegal based on how they wrote it down. It says the Vehicle's permanent Output should not exceed 250 watts, with 600watts as peak. Thus 2 250 watt Motors would mean your vehicle exceeds 250 watts.
afzal
100 W
Okay, so I was wrong, if you come across any authentic links with the above details, please do share
It used to be 2 x 250 watt motors was the common way to get around the 250 watt limitation of some countries as they were small and overlooked. Unfortunately as time goes on the authorities that watch this kind of stuff have become more and more knowledgeable and aware.
Akologi
100 mW
its in german, but its on the website of the OAMTC, which is something like an economically and politically independent Car union. They offer bunch of services through their membership, like insurance, and help when you car breaks down etc... they are one of the go to places regarding car stuff and thats what they stated: Rechtsgrundlage für E-Bikes & Pedelecs | ÖAMTC
Okay, so I was wrong, if you come across any authentic links with the above details, please do share
Translated with chatgpt (its important to note they explicitly wrote for the vehicle, not the Motor)
Gruesome
1 kW
Sorry, I had missed the part where you said you already have an e-moped (but limited to 25 km/h; is that an e-Mofa?).
Akologi
100 mW
Yeah basically its an e-mofa, but classified as an ebike( limited to 25km/h and can drive on bikelanes)
1. Ok what's your steepest hill ?
2. How far do you have to go ?
3. Do have a donor bike already ?
4. Does it need to be waterproof ?
5. How old are you do you have any medical condition you can claim as you might be able to be awarded a throttle I'd have one on anyway.
6. 250 w motor rear a 48 volt or 52 volt battery
7. Controller that can handle a cycle analyst 6 pin plug and a 3-speed switch.
8. Now a 18 amp controller, come on you can be a little bit of a cowboy you have a three-speed switch hidden and you have a cycle analyst to control your controller it's like the brain for the controller.
Disclaimer cycle analyst made by our leader Justin
My battery would have a USB port and hopefully a Bluetooth controller so you know what your battery is doing.
What's going to be your donor bike ?
Yes we would like you to answer all the questions. Please.
2. How far do you have to go ?
3. Do have a donor bike already ?
4. Does it need to be waterproof ?
5. How old are you do you have any medical condition you can claim as you might be able to be awarded a throttle I'd have one on anyway.
6. 250 w motor rear a 48 volt or 52 volt battery
7. Controller that can handle a cycle analyst 6 pin plug and a 3-speed switch.
8. Now a 18 amp controller, come on you can be a little bit of a cowboy you have a three-speed switch hidden and you have a cycle analyst to control your controller it's like the brain for the controller.
Disclaimer cycle analyst made by our leader Justin
My battery would have a USB port and hopefully a Bluetooth controller so you know what your battery is doing.
What's going to be your donor bike ?
Yes we would like you to answer all the questions. Please.
Akologi
100 mW
1. 25°
2. 110 km per day, 80-90% city traffic with stop and go, 10-20% offroad&Steep hills
3. I have a Crossbike at home. but i'd like to get one with a Step through frame(easier to get on and off, maybe even a fatbike frame due to the smoother ride thx to fat tires), front suspension, seat suspension and possibly even one with rear suspension.(as shock absorption for my back but also for the food i deliver)(my overall budget would be 2000-3000€) There should be also a place at the rear where i can put my Food delivery bag safely and maybe waterproof side bags(possibly also lockable to prevent theft, so i can put my raingear and other stuff in it)
4. Yes, all weather proof, i'll be cycling 1000-2000 Kilometers per month during any weather and time of the year
5. 30 yo and no not possible in my country unfortunatly, but they don't check on throttles that much and its really a quality of life feature for my job. Officially throttles are allowed as acceleration help up to 6km/h, so a secret switch or something would be all i'd really need.
6. 250 W Motor rear 52 volt battery (i heard about Regen braking in gear motors, or at least mods that you can buy and install that allow you to also have regen braking, which would possibly help to reduce maintenance on my breaks if i use the motor brake.. Also some extra range is nice)
and well yeah i agree with those last 2. I don't know what product for all of this yet, but I'll get there i guess.
offGridDownUnder
10 kW
Apart from the 'solely designed' part, you can do this now.
Mid-drive or one end with a hub motor for driving, and the other end with another hub motor for regen. With Grin's kit, I can set one hub motor with a trickle to just overcome the magnet cogging - electric freewheeling - and then hook up a brake lever with a switch to engage regeneration, and set the assist parameters to '0'.
The brake levers I bought from them engage the switch early and I find there is enough overall travel to permit me to adjust my mechanical brakes to not engage until after the switch triggers, but still engage fully before I've bottomed out the lever travel. Apart from emergency stops, I use only the regen to slow my trike.
I have done this with the current SX2, with a GMAC, and with an All-Axle v2. The first is the smallest motor, and I find that it correspondingly does not provide as much regen braking. The All-Axle and the GMAC would bring the trike to a complete stop on a downhill in a short enough distance that I could rely just on that - the SX2 doesn't, and I'm using the mechanical brake with that.
Penalty for this would be having the weight of two motors, the duplicate controllers (unless someone designs a controller that handles both - but this is just two controllers in one box), and the weight of two batteries - a custom controller could probably use one battery for both functions, but 'custom'. Maybe I haven't thought that last one through - perhaps it could be done with current Base|Phase-runner and current CA.
For most bi|tri-cycles, I'd drive the rear wheel and regen brake off the front. But notice about the effectiveness depending on the size of the motor as I mention above - a motor dedicated to regen may not save any weight if it's large enough to be effective at regen.
offGridDownUnder
10 kW
fatbikes have a reputation for being very difficult to pedal when the power is out - I recommend an un-powered test ride before you commit to this. Remember, if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces, and you'll have to pedal them home.
Akologi
100 mW
since my City is pretty bicycle friendly, i would just have to get it to the next subway station and can take the Subway with it. But yeah I'll have to decide upon that sooner or later... also the tires are probably more expensive compared to smaller ones
I've been doing this a long time regen is not worth the hassle it'll get you 8%. But it'll Rock the axle forward and back where the axle nut is supported in the frame even with a torque arm it ain't worth it and I wouldn't lock up my geared motor for regen. Justin is just playing around. Talked about for 10 years and not done for a lot of good reasons.
Yes waterproof battery controller good idea and waterproof plugs and throttle.
Yes waterproof battery controller good idea and waterproof plugs and throttle.
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FALSE STATEMENT. Please don't.
Many of us here use regenerative braking to good effect. Especially those of us in hilly environments.
Regenerative braking benefits:
- Adds a huge safety factor for long downhills that would normally stress (overheat) rim or disc brakes.
- Much reduced brake pad wear.
- Can even replace rear brakes in certain situations.
- Can generate a modest yet measurable increase in range.
- More uniform braking response in the wet.
Drawbacks:
- Increases stress on the dropouts. Requires quality TAs, installed correctly.
- May require additional charging planning if the first part of the ride is a long downhill.
MORE FALSE STATEMENTS.
Regen braking is standard on many models from large established ebike companies. Rad Power bikes for one.
And there are some of us with long downhills that would overheat even good hydraulic disc brakes without regen braking to help. To the point of braking failure.
Chalo
100 TW
Regen is a boondoggle, creating more problems than it addresses. Brakes are for braking; motors are for propulsion. Each should do what it is made for.
Gruesome
1 kW
Yep, we should stick to the natural order of things. And leave the thinking to the horses: they have the bigger heads.
stancecoke
100 kW
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2017
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- 1,937
For the motor regen is a totally normal working mode. The torque vector is just pointing in the opposite direction. There is nothing magic or mystic with regen. It's just four quadrant operation.
regards
stancecoke
and it would make bike illegal. Akologi wants a legal bike and you guys are like Sith Lords - "join the dark side, join the dark side..."
Fat tyres - bad idea IMO. You will increase rolling resistance significantly and make bike heavier. Better to invest in good suspension.
Akologi
100 mW
i mean im not a specialist on that topic, but so far it sounds to me that the only downsides would be: possible stress on the axle due to change of direction, and more stress on the motor(possible heat generation)
Besides that I wonder what the legality is if i would get a 2nd motor for the front wheel and just use it for regen braking. There'd be additional weight, yeah, but in theory it could not only add regen braking, but also serve as a backup, if the rear motor fails, I can just press a switch or something and use the front motor.
Akologi
100 mW
thats the thing though in the legal text they say the overall vehicle wattage output mustnot exceed 250 watt. So technically if you have a 2nd 250 watt motor that can't be used to drive, but is just for regen braking you might end up in a legal grey areaand it would make bike illegal. Akologi wants a legal bike and you guys are like Sith Lords - "join the dark side, join the dark side..."
Fat tyres - bad idea IMO. You will increase rolling resistance significantly and make bike heavier. Better to invest in good suspension.
offGridDownUnder
10 kW
No, I'm not. I'm just ignorant about his legal scheme and I didn't read everything. The bit about 'regen only' caught my eye.
I'm actually fussy about my local legal requirements as I don't want to give any ammunition to the anti-bike crowd here (<= meaning where I live, not ES).
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Thanks, this is very interesting and I'm gonna look into this. Yeah "solely designed for regen" is maybe a dumb statement from me, I was thinking more about a motor optimised for regen with the lowest weight penalty possible. Actually having a small still functional hub motor might be a good thing in case the "main motor" fails you still have a back-up.
Biggest con would indeed be weight penalty...
Your source is incorrect. There is no legal limit on power output. In fact 250W is very little. It wouldn't help much while climbing hills.
As I said before 250W limit is set on motors rated power.