failure of motor's hall sensor wire

[ynot]

The build is a trike freighter. Each of the front wheels gets 250 watt Bafang hub motors, its own controller and display will combine the throttle to use one thumb throttle.
Everything is new except the hub motors, but they test good, using the KT controller off my two wheel drive bike (ex jump bike motors).
Not planning to use PAS.

Using SW102 display connected to Accolmile Controller for BAFANG Hub Motor : 36V 14A, via 1T4 cable and the display goes straight to error 8 "failure of motor's hall sensor wire" can find nothing in the display manual and no joy for search on Endless Sphere.
Anyone help with a work around, perhaps a jumper on the hall sensor from the controller?

 

[E-HP]

Did the display, controller, and wheels come as a kit?

 

[ynot]

No, the motors are from ex jump bikes, I have 4 of them.
The controllers, 1T4 cables, SW 102, and throttles all came from Alcomile as seperate orders.
My 2wheel bike has one using a KT controller and display, had to rewire the thumb throttle and works fine, tested the other three motors, using the KT set up and all tested fine.
Am concerned that the Alcomile controller is not a sensorless controller, and am hoping to discover a way to convince the controller that there is a speed control connection.

 

[ynot]

@E-HP, If one is living on a fixed income, and tries to build an affordable means of reducing FF use, AKA, freighter trike, without buying a pre-assembled kit of parts, is that person not worthy of help?
If you do not know the answer, or feel that a poster is not worthy of your help, would it not be better simply to ignore the post?
I am stuck and am asking for help, put downs are not helping.

 

[E-HP]

@E-HP, If one is living on a fixed income, and tries to build an affordable means of reducing FF use, AKA, freighter trike, without buying a pre-assembled kit of parts, is that person not worthy of help?
If you do not know the answer, or feel that a poster is not worthy of your help, would it not be better simply to ignore the post?
I am stuck and am asking for help, put downs are not helping.

I asked a question that's all. go take your meds.

 

[ynot]

Quad Erat Demonstrandum.

Had I bought a kit, I would not have come here asking for assistance, I would have contacted the vendor.
As it stands I have contacted the vendor of the controller, to see if the controller will accept a non existant speed wire.

 

[E-HP]

Quad Erat Demonstrandum.

You might mean Quod, but who knows. Hope it all works out for you. :thumb:

 

[larsb]

@ynot: I’m not sure it will be possible to help you if the tone escalates that quickly. Anyway, i’ll give it a shot, please keep your posts civil.

As i understand your posts you have functional motors when tested on a different setup but it doesn’t work on the trike, then you mention sensorless controllers (which is confusing) and I don’t know what ”jump bike” means or what alcomile is..

So.. this should be pretty obvious.. the bafang motors are normally sensored. So are the controllers and it won’t work without all motors hall sensors connected to their respective hall sensors connector on their respective controller.

Try them individually first with one motor connected to one controller and one throttle. No other unnecessary stuff connected. Once it works individually then start to join the controllers to a single throttle. I’ve never tried to do it and can’t help you with it but have read here that several controllers to one throttle can mess with the throttle signal. Google it here on ES and you’ll find the threads.

If you can’t get the joined throttle signals to work then it’s always possible to do it the analog way. I mean joining three thumb throttles with a plate as a mega thumb throttle. Should be fun

 

[ynot]

Thank Larsb,
The set up on my bike (2 wheeler) is simply the hub motor connected to a KT controller with a thumb throttle and display, the brake and hall connectors left open. The only thing I had to do to make it work was to rewire the thumb throttle as the KT 1T4 cable and the Bafang connection was a mis match.
So once I had that working I tested the other motors and all worked, plug em in and turn em on.

Mostly to get a few more amps to the trike wheel motors, bought two Alcomile controllers (claimed to be fully Bafang compatible) and two Bafang SW102 displays, already had two Bafang thumb throttles.
I planned on either linking the two throttle levers as a fall back, simply hoped to hard wire the controllers to one throttle.
So to test the set up, once I recieved the displays, I did a test set up hub motor, controller, display, thumb throttle, all plugged in with brake and hall connections empty.
Once energized the set up displays speed sensor wire failure, there seems to be no way to bypass the error message, to get into the parameters.
Was hoping that it might be possible to put a jumper on the PAS connection to fool the controller into thinking it had a speed sensor.
Thanks for your response, as a newbie here but a lurker for a while, one perhaps gets a little hardening of the categories in dotage.
Apologies for the shortness.

 

[amberwolf]

its own controller and display will combine the throttle to use one thumb throttle.

When wiring the throttles together, be sure to only connect the signal wire from the second controller to the signal wire on the first controller. Don't use the ground or the 5v from the controller. Only use the ground and 5v to the throttle from the first controller.

That will prevent problems with the 5v supplies in each controller fighting each other (which could cause problems with every device powered from either controller's 5v), and prevent ground loops that cause undesired operation.

 

[amberwolf]

Using SW102 display connected to Accolmile Controller for BAFANG Hub Motor : 36V 14A, via 1T4 cable and the display goes straight to error 8 "failure of motor's hall sensor wire"

Do you have a link to the Accolmile Controller sales / info page? It may help us figure out the problem. I found this one with google
https://www.amazon.com/Accolmile-Controller-BAFANG-Hub-Motor/dp/B09C88KYY3
but don't know if it's the same one you got. I don't see anything obvious on that page that would make those incompatible with your motors, based on the information so far posted in this thread, if that is the same place you got yours from.


Something to note about geared hubs (like the Jump Bike Bafangs): They spin several (5, in this case) times faster than a DD hubmotor (non geared), and this means its ERPM is that many times higher, too. If a controller is based on a slow MCU or is otherwise incapable of dealing with a fast ERPM, it can have all sorts of strange errors or undesired operation. This usually happens past some specific speed, and not at speeds lower than that.

If the motors all work with a different controller, but none of them work correctly with the Accolmile Controller, then there is something incompatible about the controller itself.

perhaps a jumper on the hall sensor from the controller?

What do you mean by "a jumper"?

If you mean "bypass the hall sensor", you can do that (by disconnecting the halls completely) if the controller is sensorless-capable. Otherwise, it requires the hall sensors in the motor to be working in order to spin the motor correctly.

 

[ynot]

Thank you to all who responded.
Current thinking is we are going to have to switch controllers to a sensorless capable one, am thinking we will go with a pair of the KT ones which we know work. Would like to have had a few more amps for the cargo trike buuuut. Will be using a battery made up of 5 Nissan Leaf modules and will be running the trike at 38 to 40 volts so that will up the power a little. Speed is not an issue.
The lead times for the new controllers will give me time to finish the clamping dropouts and mount the new larger disks and build mountings for the calipers, because it is a reverse trike the left mount will be different from the right mount to suit the frame.

Amberwolf thank you thank you, I would have merrily soldered each of the three throttle wires together for a smoking hot time.
The bafang throttles will not plug in to the KT 1T4 cable so will have to solder the three wires for one and just the one wire for the sister controller.

 

[amberwolf]

Am concerned that the Alcomile controller is not a sensorless controller, and am hoping to discover a way to convince the controller that there is a speed control connection.

Note that on the Jump bike motors, there is a separate speedometer wire (white), from the three hall sensors wires (yellow green blue).

If the "Alcomile" (is this a different controller than the first post, or a different spelling of the same one?) controller doesn't have a separate speedometer input wire and only takes it's speed reading from a motor hall, it will see a speed signal *only* when the motor is operating, and not when you are coasting.

 

[amberwolf]

I would have merrily soldered each of the three throttle wires together for a smoking hot time.

It probalby won't smoke anything to parallel all three wires--but it often causes undesired operation.

 

[larsb]

Thank Larsb,
The set up on my bike (2 wheeler) is simply the hub motor connected to a KT controller with a thumb throttle and display, the brake and hall connectors left open. The only thing I had to do to make it work was to rewire the thumb throttle as the KT 1T4 cable and the Bafang connection was a mis match.

So that’s the issue then: not all controllers can do both sensored and sensorless motor control. your kt controller has sensorless control and the other ones do not and need the hall sensor connection.

 

[ynot]

Accomile my bad typing

Note that on the Jump bike motors, there is a separate speedometer wire (white), from the three hall sensors wires (yellow green blue).

If the "Alcomile" (is this a different controller than the first post, or a different spelling of the same one?) controller doesn't have a separate speedometer input wire and only takes it's speed reading from a motor hall, it will see a speed signal *only* when the motor is operating, and not when you are coasting.

The white wire tip is going to come up quite often thank you.
I think the Jump bike motors are becoming ubiquitous.

 

[E-HP]

PM received, sorry don't check them that often.

"@E-HP, If one is living on a fixed income, and tries to build an affordable means of reducing FF use, AKA, freighter trike, without buying a pre-assembled kit of parts, is that person not worthy of help?
If you do not know the answer, or feel that a poster is not worthy of your help, would it not be better simply to ignore the post?
I am stuck and am asking for help, put downs are not helping.

Copied this to you to be sure you see it, as well as putting it into the thread. If Endless Sphere is just for the monied and people who do not need to learn,......................."

The reason the question of kit or not comes up is because it's part of basic troubleshooting. With a new kit, we know that compatibility and hardware defects have a lower probability, so diagnosis would lean more toward an assembly issue. If it's put together from parts, that introduces compatibility issues as a possible problem. All bets are off it's a used system, including a greater possibility of damaged parts.

As far as economics goes, a kit is often the cheapest option for getting into ebikes. My first kit was $155, without the battery, and I'm pretty sure I couldn't assemble the same from parts for a lower cost. So if that's the reason you feel so victimized, then you'd be incorrect. I still don't see any logical reason that you were set off by a simple question, but don't really care either.

 

[docw009]

Are these the $45 motors from Battery Clearing House? I bought two, They are Bafang motors with a 9 pin plug. Sensored, with a speed signal that flashes 6x a revolution.Plug and play with a standard female 9 min controller connection.

You could have a sensorless KT controller and a miswired Hall connection to the other controller.

 

[ynot]

No, the KT controller works fine, it is the accolmile controllers that do not. I have ordered a pair of KT's but would prefer to have used bafang controllers, not sure where you are located, but here it has to be Amazon or Ebay and then we wait for 2 to 6 weeks for the to arrive. I suspect that part of the problem is that these will be throttle only no PAS, But anyroad thanks to the folks here who figured out the problem it should be smooth biking from here on.