Eastwood said:
DogDipstick said:
larsb said:
Amberwolf, I will pull my 750w dd 9C into a new thread.amberwolf said:If it's startup torque you're after, just put a bigger controller (higher phase amps, which means higher battery amps, and thus may need a better battery) on the existing motor. What controller is on there now, and what is it's current limit? Get one that is twice that, and the motor will "wake up"gobi said:
When riding on the flats at your normal speeds it won't use any more power than it did before; just when it's under conditions that require more power will the motor draw more from the controller and battery.
Same advice for any motor you want more torque from...make sure the controller can supply plenty of current to it, and that the battery can supply more than the controller needs in order to do this. (so it doesnt' sag in voltage; the less sag the more watts to the wheel).
Balmorhea said:
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Bullfrog said:
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) I've seen the insides of (and sometimes held in my hands and used), I'd go with QSMotors, such as the QS205-40H.
Thanks Amberwolf...that is a lot more info than I was expectingAre you looking for high torque, such as for quick startups? Or are you looking for fast speeds?
How much power do you need, and what is your weight limit? (and budget, if any)
Personally, for quality control and manufacturing consistency / design, based on the ones I've seen the insides of (and held in my hands), compared to all the other motors (especially Crystallyte
Unfortunately it weighs another half again what the TC4080 does, but I would bet that it can handle at least twice what their power rating is, for long bursts, because of the extra thermal mass. Not sure if the TC could (being lighter). I don't have a cromotor to compare it, but others have said that to simulate the QS205 you can start with the cromotor in hte grin simulator.
(also, if it matters, the TC motors "save weight" by removing most of the spoke flange, so if you ever have a failure of a flange segment, you can't just drill a new hole nearby and put new (longer) spokes in there to save the wheel...the QS is a typical full-circumference flange. This also means that the QS can be drilled for smaller spoke holes for typical bicycle-rim-sized spokes of 14-15g (13-14 max), if you don't want to deal with spoke washers for the oversized (12g and up) holes pretty much every hubmotor seems to have.
"The 205 Spoke Hub Motor specially designed for Electric bicycle or Electric motorcycle, drum brake or disc brake type can be optional, speed can be customized from 25-70KMPH.
[*]Spoke hole: 3.4mm x 36pcs
[*]Matching Rim:16inch-26inch
[*]Magnet Height: 40MM
[*] of Pole Pairs: 23 paris
[*]Rated Power: 1000W
[*]Max Power: 1600W
[*]Rated Voltage: 48V( 60V/72V Can be optional)
[*]Speed: 45km/h (30-55km/h can be customized)
[*]Max No-load RPM: 650RPM
[*]Max Torque: 98N.M
[*]Max Efficiency: 90%
[*]Continious current:23A
[*]Max current:40-45A (Peak 70A in short time)
[*]Brake type: Disc brake or Brum brake(Optional)
[*]Rear Fork width for installation: 200
[*]Cross Section of Phase wire: 8 mm2
[*]Temperature Sensor: Optional
[*]Waterproof Grade: IP66
[*]W./ G..W. : 11kgs / 12kgs
[*]Package Size: 34*34*33CM
TC4080 specs:
TC4065 ; TC4080 and TC40100
Magnet size = 40mm ; Stator high = 40mm
140mm dropout ; Design for 1 speed freewheel
Can take normal spokes of 90 degrees
Rear wheel motor
Motor Weight is 8kg
Wheel laced with 20" to 26"
48V Specifications TC4080 Motor :
View attachment 341361
72V Specifications TC4080 Motor :
View attachment 341362
. I'll take a closer look at the QS205 40H motor.
Keep in mind that it's not just the wider stator, it's also usually an increase in phase current that would be needed for higher torque (generally the wider motors arent just wider, but also built for higher currents / power levels).
Also...some of the "35mm" motors dont' have 35mm stator *and* magnets, just one or the other. IIRC the old Crystalyte 35H series had rear and front versions, and the front ones weren't actually 35, but I think 24 or 25? So any comparison using one of those would certainly show a huge increase in torque going up to 40, since it would almost double the effective width.
The way a motor is wound could also affect it's torque ( including which winding it has, so it's kV / kT), so sometimes comparing different motor models is hard to do directly. I don't know if the simulator takes this into account or just shows you the direct results of each one for the controller/battery/conditions it's setup with.
I'm pretty sure the QS205 40H could do what you want; I only have the 50H version, but haven't used it myself--the one I have came from someone that used it at much higher power levels (11kw?) on a "dirt bike" build until the insufficient axle hardware failed and the axle ends sheared off. :lol: (I have a new axle for it and a second stator from someone else, but have yet to get it rebuilt and in-use, as I will probalby use it for a middrive version of the SB Cruiser trike if I ever get to that).
35mph should take around 2kw or so battery power, and probably 1500w+ at the motor/ground (so 500w of losses in the system as heat). Probably 60Wh/mile+; if it's a long ride you may need a big battery. (a big battery can handle the current better anyway)
The hill climbs could take a little more or way way more, depending on the slopes and length and weight of you, bike, etc and speed you're going up them.
. . With my MAC and battery placement, I can get a 50/50 weight distribution front to rear so my bike handles about as good as possible...with a 40mm or larger DD motor, I don't think that is going to be possible.Why do you want such a big heavy motor when your requirements are modest? The Grin V2 fast wind will do what you want, and stay running cool as a cucumber (65C) at 35mph, and have tons of torque and acceleration getting there.Thanks Amberwolf...that is a lot more info than I was expecting
Initially I was considering a Crystalyte H+55 series motor but after using the Grin Tech motor simulator I was seeing that going over 40mm for a stator width, did not give as much of an increase in torque as going from 35mm to 40mm does so why should I pay the extra weight penalty with the bigger stator if I didn't need it. I am thinking I want a DD motor that will be capable of maintaining about 35 mph on relatively level ground with occasional mild hill climbs and I'd like my motor to do all of that without overheating. The build would be more of a commuter than something I'd be running hard and stopping/starting a lot so probably around 2,500 watts continuous with peaks of 60-80A (battery) and I plan to use a 72v battery.
ebikes.ca
Why do you want such a big heavy motor when your requirements are modest? The Grin V2 fast wind will do what you want, and stay running cool as a cucumber (65C) at 35mph, and have tons of torque and acceleration getting there.
I use the V2 in the simulator to fill in the blanks on my Leaf motor, since they are similar in efficiency and the curves line up very closely; but the Grin is modeled for temperature.Motor Simulator - Tools
Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...
.Not sure why this is important if the goal is more torque. You could artificially limit the input to any big motor to underperform another motor, I could see a Honda Civic outperforming a 427 Shelby Cobra, if you feed the Cobra unleaded regular at the same fuel flow rate as the Honda too, but the Cobra wouldn't be burdened by that limitation in the real world. Give the MAC and the Cromotor what they need, and then do the comparison.
. I am limited to 135mm dropouts so the best motors (QS205 and Cromotor) are a little too wide. Looks like I may have to compromise and use something like the Crystalyte Crown 40 series.
