Finally RUNNING!! page 5 ride vids Here!! need better qualit

Hi,

Great idea!
Whiplash said:
Boy! The MAC without the spoke flanges is actually QUITE SMALL for a 3000 watt capable mid drive WITH its own reduction built in! I can't wait to get this kit on the market!

The diameter is down from over 7" to under 6.5" so its considerably smaller..
Click to expand...
What did the motor weigh before and after?

Thanks!
 
Finally had decent weather here at least in the early AM to go for the first little ride of the season! Its been terrible weather here lately, last week we had 110* and over 80% humidity!!!! INHUMAN! But the bike was still balanced perfectly after a couple months of storage and rode great! Love this design and can't believe after all my work I finally have a reliable quiet setup! I'm still running the $5 drive chain I stole off a Walmart bike I found on the side of the road! Lol!!
 
Sounds like everything is working good for you. Need some more videos of the system in action. I'd really like to use a system like this but I'm afraid the MAC may seem out of place and too large for most of the bikes I'm looking at. It would be interesting to see the difference between the MAC, Bafang, Cute motors for performance and how far you could push them in a mid drive. I would imagine the shock on the internal planetary gears would be reduced and therefore you could possibly push a smaller geared hub motor harder.

Carl
 
The loading on the gears is actually dependant on the wind if the motor which will determine the gearing used in the chain line to attain a given speed. I originally had mine geared to go around 45MPH which was way too tall for this motor and I killed the bearings in one of the motor gears. I re did the gearing so it does about 37 now and its been fine ever since. So basically as long as you are not "overdriving" the motor too much you should be fine. I set it up so my tallest gear is slightly higher than the motor would do in the wheel and its been fine...
 
Glad to hear the mid drive is still working good. I plan for a winter mid drive project myself and have a few questions for you.

1.I still can not get my head around the torque transfer stuff. I see the need for a good torque set of torque arms built into the motor mounting but what about after that, do you still have to have drop outs of the bike built up with torque arms? I am guessing not as the standard wheel rear hub is going to be round but just trying to figure out what happens to the transfer of torque back at the frames rear drop outs?

2.I have a mac 10t that will be used for this project so I am running a bit faster of an RPM on the motor end of things and I also hope to go with a Nexus internal rear hub maybe an eight speed. Can you tell me please the tooth count for reductions etc from your threaded fixed gear to the freewheel on the crank and then I can take a guess at what I should be running with my faster wound 10t mac?

3.Are you still recommending the White Eno with the flange from SIC bikes? I don't really know how these items really work but I can figure that out from manufactures data once I know what is best to shop for.

Thanks ..........Wayne
 
Honestly the 10 turn might be the best setup. I am running a 42t crank sprocket driving a 42t sending power back to the cluster which is a 11/34. I am using a 22t mounted on the motor I believe. I would do a 20 or maybe 18t on the motor for you driving a 44t with a 36t feeding the cluster. This is actually a what I want to try since I can't use my 11t because its too tall. I also would like to make it even easier for the motor when climbing because it saves power and I find I don't need even the 10ish MPH I get in first gear so it makes more sense for me..
 
I have been wondering about the axle modification. I guess you had to pull the axle from the hub and then disconnect your phase and hall sensor wires from the motor side of things before cutting your axle and then re solder the wires back in place?
 
I used my lathe and carefully cut just short of through the axle, then snapped it off... Much easier!
 
Did you cut off the Anderson connectors and JST conector or did your motor come with out any connectors on it anyways so you could slip the cut off piece away from the motor? Or did you just cut off the length of axle (on the wire exit side) that had the slot cut into it for wire exit already in it so then the wires would slip through the side of the cut off axle piece?
 
Yes, what you said last..
 
I'm surprised I haven't seen this thread before. The whole set-up looks good, I'm glad to see real-world data on existing hardware.

I've occasionally suggested this as an possibility the last couple years, and I'm glad that someone has finally proven it works.
 
Thanks man! Yeah I love it and if I ever get off my butt and make the drawings for the side plates I'll offer them for sale, it truly is a simple setup if you get the gearing right. I actually want to lower the gearing so I can use the 11t cog on the back as right now its too tall, heard for like 40+ MPH and lugs the motor too much. There IS a limit to how much you can overdrive the motor. Eventually it overloads the bearings in the planetary gears and kills them. I think if you want really high speed like 40 MPH, you could go with a higher voltage and lower gearing but I don't have the disposable income to try it.....
 
spinningmagnets said:
I'm surprised I haven't seen this thread before. The whole set-up looks good, I'm glad to see real-world data on existing hardware.
Click to expand...
Same here. Just when I though my next build type was firmly planted in my brain, I find Whiplash experimenting with the mid drive hub concept, with great success. I never gave much credence to the geared hub drive until now. Modified for mid drive? I like it. Nice work, Whiplash!
 
Hey THX! It took me some experimentation on other style drives to finally find this setup. The noise of other drives it what lead me to this one. Sooo quiet while still having immense climbing power. I can do on 200 watts what my wife's bike (wheel mounted DD hub) takes 1000 or more. But to be fair that is climbing steep trails, top speed on the street a hub is hard to beat...


I'm actually working on a high power design using one of John's two speed scooter 93% efficiency hubs cut down and fit through the gears that will be good off road in low KV mode and a street terror in High! Hoping for a top speed of 50mph so I can cruise at 40 ish MPH and then in low KV and low gear top speed of 10 or lower. We'll see how I do. Gotta build the frame first....
 
Whiplash said:
I actually want to lower the gearing so I can use the 11t cog on the back as right now its too tall, heard for like 40+ MPH and lugs the motor too much. There IS a limit to how much you can overdrive the motor. Eventually it overloads the bearings in the planetary gears and kills them. I think if you want really high speed like 40 MPH, you could go with a higher voltage and lower gearing but I don't have the disposable income to try it.....
Click to expand...

What about a 13-34T 8 speed or even one of those 10 speed cassettes customized? Or were you talking about the drive ring (is that a free wheel? forgot) on the hub? I'm really liking this set up, Whiplash. Operating in the motors sweet spot should made it last forever! This hub was built to withstand some serious road pounding and you just removed that need for extra strength, from the equation :idea: All the elements for the best mid-drive system are there. Are you logging miles? Keep up the testing and more news and (youtube) data, please.
 
Whiplash I have a question for you with the mac being used as a mid drive. I have had my first mac 10t fail on with a broken key that left one half of the key in the key way and the other half in the key slot. I realize now that what most likely caused the failure was leaving the throttle locked full on while climbing bumpy terrain. When the rear wheel lifts off the ground while climbing and you leave the throttle pinned you can hear a nasty sound back at the rear wheel when things reload at the point of traction. What is your feel for how the mid drive may help this, or is it still a concern if you leave the throttle pinned while climbing over bumpy stuff while air born ( I use the term air born but just to describe having even a split second of no resistance at the rear wheel when the wheel is off the ground ). I have found this to be something unexpected being my first e-bike when I compare my e-bike to riding a dirt bike with more tolerance for this sort of thing. Even if I had lot of battery power to fly up the hills I am thinking this part of the mac motors may be a bit of weak link in how we can push these little geared hub motors.

Your thoughts Whiplash please...............wayne
 
I have not had that problem and do ride that sort of terrain often. BUT I did something to my motor when I got it new. Open it up and pull the gear assy off the shaft and key. Clean all components with a good solvent like alcohol, and add a drop of loktite brand "retaining compound" it is incredibly strong and takes any slack out of the keyway and shaft. I would guess you could remove the key entirely its that strong, but don't lol! It comes off with a little heat from a small torch should the need arise...
 
I have over 1000 miles on it on road and plenty more off road so its taken the abuse so far. In fact I'm going for a nice long ride tomorrow into some pretty serious trails so I'll take pics and vids when I take breaks... Wish I had a GoPro!
 
Here's a couple vids from today's ride! Awesome! Over 2000' climbing in VERY rough and steep terrain! 16 miles round trip on only 9AH!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnVow66D510&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw38DqyDjMM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
Thanks! Yes the weather right now is my favorite all year, soon it will get colder into the 40-50* range and that's still nice. The only bummer here is the summer, it gets insanely HOT here. Like 120*!!
 
At long last, I FINALLY ordered my TIG welder! I will need to brush up on my Aluminum skills, but once I feel confident again(its been quite a few years), I will be cutting up this bike to do a similar build to Timma's but with my mid mounted MAC converted to an AXLE drive. I am VERY anxious to try this design because if it is possible without a HUGE output of labor on the motor conversion it will enable a much better design on the bike since I will make the motor actually be part of the structure of the bike. This will give A)More ground clearance, and B)much improved heat removal from the motor since I plan on oil cooling the motor and then using the bike frame as the heat sinc. This should greatly improve cooling and power handling. If I can get a reliable 2000+ watts from the MAC even if I have to use a steel gear, I will be very happy and the performance should be very pleasing to say the least! Once I start that build I will start a new thread for it but wish me luck!
 
Whiplash said:
At long last, I FINALLY ordered my TIG welder! I will need to brush up on my Aluminum skills, but once I feel confident again(its been quite a few years), I will be cutting up this bike to do a similar build to Timma's but with my mid mounted MAC converted to an AXLE drive. I am VERY anxious to try this design because if it is possible without a HUGE output of labor on the motor conversion it will enable a much better design on the bike since I will make the motor actually be part of the structure of the bike. This will give A)More ground clearance, and B)much improved heat removal from the motor since I plan on oil cooling the motor and then using the bike frame as the heat sinc. This should greatly improve cooling and power handling. If I can get a reliable 2000+ watts from the MAC even if I have to use a steel gear, I will be very happy and the performance should be very pleasing to say the least! Once I start that build I will start a new thread for it but wish me luck!
Click to expand...

sounds really good mate... looking forward to seing what you come up with. any pics of your ideas for the frame?
 
Not yet, still in my head but I should have some sketches soon. I'll post them up when I start the new thread...
 
Say, Whiplash. Whats the chance of you doing a photo summary about, where you are "today," on this project (before you cut it up!)? With the current GNG issues, I'm considering a custom build similar to yours. I really like the choices you made with the hub and drive train. I'm thinking of going with a street version so there will be a few differences. However, I don't want to change anything that will affect reliability. Seems to me that you have that situation well in hand, my friend. Bike on!
 
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