Paradigm
10 W
Does anyone that has experience with this BMS have any experience with the Adaptto BMS to offer a comparison? Theirs would only be worth is you have an Adaptto controller to operate it.
foundingpower programmable bms
- Thread starter nechaus
- Start date
Paradigm
10 W
In addition to the comprehensive standard and performance lines of EV products I will be launching a kickstarter campaign for I have a few other product ideas I would like some feedback on. I used to have a prototype of a turbine charging system for an camper that I would like to miniaturize and make a EV range extender. I think my 240v LiTiSupercapacitor system is a big enough project with enough application to break off into its own. I also have designs for an RV/off grid camping solar/wind/water charge controller BMS.
Hi!
@ohzee
All documents on my web are avalible without password, software is password protected (though for your BMS version there is older software required, which is somewhere on this site, new BMSs have different protocol).
Also display can't be replaced with OLED one (small one ("Nokia like"), also seen in some posts is obsolete as well).
About 24S wiring diagram check last pages in manuals, that you can get on my webpage. Simply said, just follow 24S procedure and do the wiring exactly as it is told (first 2 pins of each connector must be connected together ...). This is done this way, so measuring and powering of the chips is seperated.
So for your application I guess the best option is to use what you have (current display).
@Paradigm
Haven't tried Adaptto BMS. Looks like like a matching pair BMS + ESC with own communication.
Regards,
Gregor
@ohzee
All documents on my web are avalible without password, software is password protected (though for your BMS version there is older software required, which is somewhere on this site, new BMSs have different protocol).
Also display can't be replaced with OLED one (small one ("Nokia like"), also seen in some posts is obsolete as well).
About 24S wiring diagram check last pages in manuals, that you can get on my webpage. Simply said, just follow 24S procedure and do the wiring exactly as it is told (first 2 pins of each connector must be connected together ...). This is done this way, so measuring and powering of the chips is seperated.
So for your application I guess the best option is to use what you have (current display).
@Paradigm
Haven't tried Adaptto BMS. Looks like like a matching pair BMS + ESC with own communication.
Regards,
Gregor
ohzee
100 kW
Thanks mucek. Your web site looks very professional and is easy to get around.
So I have been trying to figure out what is wrong with my BMS for about a week now. Running 24s lifepo4
and have followed the install directions. I am confident I have the BMS wired correctly as I have now went
over that figuring it had to be wrong I don't know how many times. When I do the test below I get the same
results.
Pin 1 to pin 30 gives me 79v , but when I connect the BMS and read the display it gives me 74v and when
I cycle thru the cells 1-12 are correct , but 13-24 not. It's like somewhere it's not reading one cell and it divides
that voltage and displays 13-24 voltages low.
I made sure to push the 12 12 settings for first chip second chip thinking that may be it. It does show the voltage
for all 24 cells it's just 13-24 are not correct. I balanced them with my icharger prior to hooking up the BMS so
they would be in sync.
I put a multimeter on the pins where the bms wires are soldered and got the same measurements as id expect.
Any ideas ? nothing visibly burnt on the board and as far as I am aware I never hooked it up in the wrong order.
Instruction
lease put black pen of multimeter to the PIN1,the ren pen will measure in turn PIN2,PIN3,PIN4.......PIN30.
For example:24S Li-po4,after measurement:
PIN1:0V PIN2:0V PIN3:3.3V PIN4:6.61V PIN5:9.91V PIN6:13.22V.......... PIN14=PIN15=PIN16=PIN17=39.6V .........PIN30:79.34V
So I have been trying to figure out what is wrong with my BMS for about a week now. Running 24s lifepo4
and have followed the install directions. I am confident I have the BMS wired correctly as I have now went
over that figuring it had to be wrong I don't know how many times. When I do the test below I get the same
results.
Pin 1 to pin 30 gives me 79v , but when I connect the BMS and read the display it gives me 74v and when
I cycle thru the cells 1-12 are correct , but 13-24 not. It's like somewhere it's not reading one cell and it divides
that voltage and displays 13-24 voltages low.
I made sure to push the 12 12 settings for first chip second chip thinking that may be it. It does show the voltage
for all 24 cells it's just 13-24 are not correct. I balanced them with my icharger prior to hooking up the BMS so
they would be in sync.
I put a multimeter on the pins where the bms wires are soldered and got the same measurements as id expect.
Any ideas ? nothing visibly burnt on the board and as far as I am aware I never hooked it up in the wrong order.
Instruction
lease put black pen of multimeter to the PIN1,the ren pen will measure in turn PIN2,PIN3,PIN4.......PIN30.For example:24S Li-po4,after measurement:
PIN1:0V PIN2:0V PIN3:3.3V PIN4:6.61V PIN5:9.91V PIN6:13.22V.......... PIN14=PIN15=PIN16=PIN17=39.6V .........PIN30:79.34V
ohzee
100 kW
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ox1q4qcqx1twymp/2014-08-26%2001.56.42.jpg?dl=0
I hate resizing my pics but can if that does not work. Thanks
I hate resizing my pics but can if that does not work. Thanks
Do check pins 1/2 and 14/15 on both, P5 and P6 (see pages 25, 26)
http://www.ecat.si/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/smartBMS_EN_1.0.pdf
Looks like there is some wrong ground reference on a second chip (like cell 13+ would be connected to pin 2 on P6).
Regards,
Gregor
http://www.ecat.si/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/smartBMS_EN_1.0.pdf
Looks like there is some wrong ground reference on a second chip (like cell 13+ would be connected to pin 2 on P6).
Regards,
Gregor
ohzee
100 kW
Today I redid all my BMS wire connections to do my 5th check on them with the exact same results.
Pins 1/2 are on the battery negative 14/15 and 16/17 are both on the same spot battery +12 -13 and 29/30 are on the battery positive.
I have one of the original CS-BMS. Looks like I ordered it in Dec 2012 and it's sat in it's box since.
At this point I'm going to give up. Id be willing to pay you to look and advise , but honesty with the feature rich products you
have now id be tempted to see if I could work something out. Having bluetooth seems like a very nice option.
Thanks for your help Mucek.
Pins 1/2 are on the battery negative 14/15 and 16/17 are both on the same spot battery +12 -13 and 29/30 are on the battery positive.
I have one of the original CS-BMS. Looks like I ordered it in Dec 2012 and it's sat in it's box since.
At this point I'm going to give up. Id be willing to pay you to look and advise , but honesty with the feature rich products you
have now id be tempted to see if I could work something out. Having bluetooth seems like a very nice option.
Thanks for your help Mucek.
Hi!
I sent you PM with more details, what to do next. Bluetooth can't be added to the old BMS, as the data protocol was changed during the developing new BMS version.
Regards,
Gregor
p.s. Just returned from ZEBRA battery training! Very interesting - not only lithium can be used for EVs! I wrote some more here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62920
I sent you PM with more details, what to do next. Bluetooth can't be added to the old BMS, as the data protocol was changed during the developing new BMS version.
Regards,
Gregor
p.s. Just returned from ZEBRA battery training! Very interesting - not only lithium can be used for EVs!
I wrote some more here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62920Attachments
Hello,
I think I have an issue with my BMS otherwise I’m completely lost on the parameter setting.
Config : EBS-BMS 24S with 18S3P Lipo Battery
I explain, during charging I have an “OV-CHG” protection when one of the 18 cells reaches 4.2V “CHG_LIMIT” and BMS cut of the CHG FET …. Which it is normal but the problem is that the BMS stay on “OV-CHG” protection and then the CHG FET stay off even if the highest cell voltage reaches the “CHG_Recovery” value (4.18V).
Due to that the BMS is not able to fully charge my battery.
Actually my only solution is to switch OFF and ON the BMS to clear the “OV-CHG” protection and then allow the battery to be charged until “OV-CHG” appear again and so on …
Is there someone who could help me ?
I think I have an issue with my BMS otherwise I’m completely lost on the parameter setting.
Config : EBS-BMS 24S with 18S3P Lipo Battery
I explain, during charging I have an “OV-CHG” protection when one of the 18 cells reaches 4.2V “CHG_LIMIT” and BMS cut of the CHG FET …. Which it is normal but the problem is that the BMS stay on “OV-CHG” protection and then the CHG FET stay off even if the highest cell voltage reaches the “CHG_Recovery” value (4.18V).
Due to that the BMS is not able to fully charge my battery.
Actually my only solution is to switch OFF and ON the BMS to clear the “OV-CHG” protection and then allow the battery to be charged until “OV-CHG” appear again and so on …
Is there someone who could help me ?
Can you post the screenshot of setting page? There are 2 parametets, single cell OV and pack OV.
Another question: if you disconnect the charger, wait 10 minutes and reconnects it, does it start with charging again?
What are your charger's parameters (charging voltage, current)?
Regards,
Gregor
p.s. Finishing charging at 4,1 V or 4,05 V will SIGNIFICANTLY improve your LiPo cells lifetime (with our tests, from around 500-700 cycles to 2000 cycles+)! Just a suggestion ... (but offcourse avalible capacity will be around 10-15 % lower)
Another question: if you disconnect the charger, wait 10 minutes and reconnects it, does it start with charging again?
What are your charger's parameters (charging voltage, current)?
Regards,
Gregor
p.s. Finishing charging at 4,1 V or 4,05 V will SIGNIFICANTLY improve your LiPo cells lifetime (with our tests, from around 500-700 cycles to 2000 cycles+)! Just a suggestion ... (but offcourse avalible capacity will be around 10-15 % lower)
ohzee
100 kW
So talking with mucek it was determined something was wrong with my older gen1 BMS and since it was so old repair docs are no longer handidly avaiable.
He offered me a fair discount on a new model so I took the plunge. I purchased the SmartBMS with bluetooth option. Somehow the unit made it to me within
a week if not less. I was pretty amazed as I opted for the cheaper shipping.
Comparing the older version to the latest version is literally like night and day. Gen1 did look like a science project while this latest version is a professional product.
Ill get some pics up of them beside each other. I mounted the BMS to my bike. The intallation docs are pretty straightforward , but for someone who is more of a
hobbyist then a professional in electronics some of the terminology could be clearer. I fully agree that's my own lack of knowledge and others may not have the same issues.
Last couple days I have been fighting the current adjustment settings for the hall voltage sensor. I will say tho mucek is extremely responsive and has responded
right away to any questions I have had. I get the impression if he is awake he is working.
I think I need to do a few more discharge/charge so I can get the SOC bar to be accurate which is something I really want to see. The Andriod sw works very well and
I have not had any connectivity issues using it. The pc software works well also and the issues I have I beleive is because of the virtual windows OS I run on my mac.
Some things I would like to see in order of importance. Honestly only thing that I really care about here is the temp option. Others would just be nice.
- temp option. It may not seem important to people outside the US , but in the US I need my temp measurements in fahrenheit.
- real world examples in the documentation with stated cell count & type.
- also some more detailed docs on how to wire the throttle option or anything else that may be possible with the BMS.
- iphone support. unfortunately I carry a iphone because of work and now I need to have 2 devices on me when riding my bike.
- not a huge deal here at all just something that would be nice.
So high ratings from myself on this BMS and especially the support from mucek. Thanks.
He offered me a fair discount on a new model so I took the plunge. I purchased the SmartBMS with bluetooth option. Somehow the unit made it to me within
a week if not less. I was pretty amazed as I opted for the cheaper shipping.
Comparing the older version to the latest version is literally like night and day. Gen1 did look like a science project while this latest version is a professional product.
Ill get some pics up of them beside each other. I mounted the BMS to my bike. The intallation docs are pretty straightforward , but for someone who is more of a
hobbyist then a professional in electronics some of the terminology could be clearer. I fully agree that's my own lack of knowledge and others may not have the same issues.
Last couple days I have been fighting the current adjustment settings for the hall voltage sensor. I will say tho mucek is extremely responsive and has responded
right away to any questions I have had. I get the impression if he is awake he is working.
I think I need to do a few more discharge/charge so I can get the SOC bar to be accurate which is something I really want to see. The Andriod sw works very well and
I have not had any connectivity issues using it. The pc software works well also and the issues I have I beleive is because of the virtual windows OS I run on my mac.
Some things I would like to see in order of importance. Honestly only thing that I really care about here is the temp option. Others would just be nice.
- temp option. It may not seem important to people outside the US , but in the US I need my temp measurements in fahrenheit.
- real world examples in the documentation with stated cell count & type.
- also some more detailed docs on how to wire the throttle option or anything else that may be possible with the BMS.
- iphone support. unfortunately I carry a iphone because of work and now I need to have 2 devices on me when riding my bike.
- not a huge deal here at all just something that would be nice.
So high ratings from myself on this BMS and especially the support from mucek. Thanks.
Hi!
Thanks for your feedback!
SOC needs some cycles to self-adjust (though if you set up proper battery capacity and battery is fully charged when connecting the BMS, it should work). Iphone application is an option, though not in plan yet, as it requires plenty of work.
Bluetooth software is still in developing, there are some major features in work (changing parameters from phone) as well as some small improvements, Celsius/Fahrenheit setting is one of them as well.
Regards,
Gregor
p.s. In the attachment there is "smartBMS basic connections" sheet, which may help with first startup. I am working on a "Quick start guide" with schematics for options you mentioned as well as suggested valves for most common cell types.
Thanks for your feedback!
SOC needs some cycles to self-adjust (though if you set up proper battery capacity and battery is fully charged when connecting the BMS, it should work). Iphone application is an option, though not in plan yet, as it requires plenty of work.
Bluetooth software is still in developing, there are some major features in work (changing parameters from phone) as well as some small improvements, Celsius/Fahrenheit setting is one of them as well
.Regards,
Gregor
p.s. In the attachment there is "smartBMS basic connections" sheet, which may help with first startup. I am working on a "Quick start guide" with schematics for options you mentioned as well as suggested valves for most common cell types.
mucek said:
Well sorry for my late answer here under requested screenshot
2014-09-20_12-02-59_25 by Le_Gobbi, on Flickr
Diapositive1 by Le_Gobbi, on Flickr
Diapositive2 by Le_Gobbi, on FlickrI tried to disconnect and reconnect charger and nothing changed
I charge with a lipo charger bulk at 75,6 V at 10 A
Regards
Huh ... From your screenshots all I see seems to be pretty much correct.
What I would do is first try to "reset" the BMS (disconnect cells, wait few minutes and reconnect it back), then I would change voltages in "Alarm" section one by one at 4300 mV, to see, where (in which parameter) the problem is. However, I guess few mV difference is not ok, try to set CHG Limit to 4200 and Recover to 4050 and let me know, what happens. I also think, that charging process isn't started as long as SOC is near to 100%.
Regards,
Gregor
What I would do is first try to "reset" the BMS (disconnect cells, wait few minutes and reconnect it back), then I would change voltages in "Alarm" section one by one at 4300 mV, to see, where (in which parameter) the problem is. However, I guess few mV difference is not ok, try to set CHG Limit to 4200 and Recover to 4050 and let me know, what happens. I also think, that charging process isn't started as long as SOC is near to 100%.
Regards,
Gregor
Artur
100 kW
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2014
- Messages
- 1,117
My turn to make a rewiev to that greate BMS.
I bought it in Winter from Founding power directly as I have friends in Beijin.
I also ordered 1kWt Charger with it.
I shoul say I spent alot of time of reading installation and setting manual of BMS before I started (was scared to burn something )
After sending battery soldering scheme to Mucek I connect my 20 pcs ot turnigy 5Ah 4S together in one battery.
I had a problem with BMS couple of times, first when my rezistor R42 burned because of high voltage of battery, second time because my new resistor R42 burned, third time when I ride with high current my screen switch modes on my screen one by one without pressing a button, last one but most scary one.. when balansing wire fall off from bms connector and short out with another cell, in a resuld resoldering balansing wires after a smal fireworks in my workshop, I thought I will not have workshop any more how scary things can be with LiPo batteries ))
At the end I solder a 125W rezistor for 100Ohm made in USSR )) Work well so far. Didn't do nothing with button though.. I dont really look on a screen during ride ( dangerous on a speed 60-70 km/h)
I used hot glue to connect all balansing wires to prevent falling off and other proubles ) Can I buy a new connector, I may need to make combination for 24 cell.. ?
I would change some things for the next generations: possibiliy to work with battery up to 110V, better radioator for balancing rezistors (chip warm up wery fast and stop balansing as a rezult not fully charged battery). Also to make memmory to monitor what cell is dieing faster then another to know what is a weakest place in a battery chain. Possibility to monitor the temperature of motor.
My bike:
I bought it in Winter from Founding power directly as I have friends in Beijin.
I also ordered 1kWt Charger with it.
I shoul say I spent alot of time of reading installation and setting manual of BMS before I started (was scared to burn something
)After sending battery soldering scheme to Mucek I connect my 20 pcs ot turnigy 5Ah 4S together in one battery.
I had a problem with BMS couple of times, first when my rezistor R42 burned because of high voltage of battery, second time because my new resistor R42 burned, third time when I ride with high current my screen switch modes on my screen one by one without pressing a button, last one but most scary one.. when balansing wire fall off from bms connector and short out with another cell, in a resuld resoldering balansing wires after a smal fireworks in my workshop, I thought I will not have workshop any more how scary things can be with LiPo batteries ))
At the end I solder a 125W rezistor for 100Ohm made in USSR )) Work well so far. Didn't do nothing with button though.. I dont really look on a screen during ride ( dangerous on a speed 60-70 km/h)
I used hot glue to connect all balansing wires to prevent falling off and other proubles ) Can I buy a new connector, I may need to make combination for 24 cell.. ?
I would change some things for the next generations: possibiliy to work with battery up to 110V, better radioator for balancing rezistors (chip warm up wery fast and stop balansing as a rezult not fully charged battery). Also to make memmory to monitor what cell is dieing faster then another to know what is a weakest place in a battery chain. Possibility to monitor the temperature of motor.
My bike:
Attachments
Hi!
Thanks for your feedback!
About R42:
Yes, it's undersized. I suggest all users to replace R42 (100 ohm, 0805) with 50/47 ohm, 1206 size. (already fixed with new series of BMSs - see bottom!)
About balancing resistors: balancing voltage shall not be set too low, otherwise all resistors start to produce heat and thermal protection disables balancing. With new BMS series, resistors are lifted higher from PCB, so there is thermal conductivity with casing, which helps a lot.
I also reccomend fixing wires in connector after everything is done and tested with some hot glue to avoid any strange things, when vibrations are present.
About monitoring, which battery is the weakest, it is pretty simple - see cell voltage under load. Usually, the weakest cell will have lowest voltage (if cells were charged properly).
Regards,
Gregor
And announcment:
I just received new batch of BMSs, which are again in stock! See http://www.ecat.si/smartbms/ There are several improvements on a PCB, such as fixed R42, lifted balancing resistors etc.
p.s. COOL BIKE!!!
Thanks for your feedback!
About R42:
Yes, it's undersized. I suggest all users to replace R42 (100 ohm, 0805) with 50/47 ohm, 1206 size. (already fixed with new series of BMSs - see bottom!)
About balancing resistors: balancing voltage shall not be set too low, otherwise all resistors start to produce heat and thermal protection disables balancing. With new BMS series, resistors are lifted higher from PCB, so there is thermal conductivity with casing, which helps a lot.
I also reccomend fixing wires in connector after everything is done and tested with some hot glue to avoid any strange things, when vibrations are present.
About monitoring, which battery is the weakest, it is pretty simple - see cell voltage under load. Usually, the weakest cell will have lowest voltage (if cells were charged properly).
Regards,
Gregor
And announcment:
I just received new batch of BMSs, which are again in stock! See http://www.ecat.si/smartbms/ There are several improvements on a PCB, such as fixed R42, lifted balancing resistors etc.
p.s. COOL BIKE!!!
ohzee
100 kW
So been using this BMS now daily since I got it hooked up and it has been working great.
I think id still like the oled display vs the bluetooth since it's just another device I have to mess with.
Is the pin out avaialble so I could purchase my own oled display and hook it up ?
Any movement on a new android sw ? I look forward to using mph/F values so if you need any testers please let me know.
I think id still like the oled display vs the bluetooth since it's just another device I have to mess with.
Is the pin out avaialble so I could purchase my own oled display and hook it up ?
Any movement on a new android sw ? I look forward to using mph/F values so if you need any testers please let me know.
Hi there!
Thanks for good news!
About OLED:
check user's manuals, page 11 (P2 connector pinout). BTW, controller used is SSD1309. Though not all OLEDs (even with proper controller!) work ok (been there, done that) ...
About BT app:
It's still in development, because there's plenty of new stuff to include (new app will have also option to modify settings!). However, if there's a big request for MPH and temperature in F, we can publish some "in-between" version ...
Regards,
Gregor
Thanks for good news
!About OLED:
check user's manuals, page 11 (P2 connector pinout)
. BTW, controller used is SSD1309. Though not all OLEDs (even with proper controller!) work ok (been there, done that) ...About BT app:
It's still in development, because there's plenty of new stuff to include (new app will have also option to modify settings!). However, if there's a big request for MPH and temperature in F, we can publish some "in-between" version ...
Regards,
Gregor
I'm stuck with BMS software. Then I connect USB cable to BMS I can`t change any settings. Also I try to connect to com-port directly without USB.
Screenshot of thats happen: http://joxi.ru/BvkyVP3JTJA-XeOoLEk
Someone has any ideas how to fix it?
Screenshot of thats happen: http://joxi.ru/BvkyVP3JTJA-XeOoLEk
Someone has any ideas how to fix it?
Yes
Programmable BMS LTC6803-3 http://joxi.ru/3Yk1VP3JTJD7YXshjvI
BMS works well. Take a look at LCD
Huh, this must be some old version, I am not familiar neither with software or BMS itself. Though it seems, like software can't even access COM port. Can you access com port using hyperterminal? (do the first test described bellow)
However, some tips that may help anyway:
- Check RS232 cable first: connect pins 2 and 3 together, start Hyperterminal and start typing. Everything that you type shall be seen. If you remove connection, typing must not be seen anymore. This is first step to ensure, that RS232 is working fine. (without it, everything else is nonsense)
- Try to reverse pins 2 and 3 on RS232 (DB9) connector. May be, that TX goes to TX and RX to RX (should be TX->RX, RX<-TX).
- Are you sure, that software that you use is ok?
Regards,
Gregor
However, some tips that may help anyway:
- Check RS232 cable first: connect pins 2 and 3 together, start Hyperterminal and start typing. Everything that you type shall be seen. If you remove connection, typing must not be seen anymore. This is first step to ensure, that RS232 is working fine. (without it, everything else is nonsense)
- Try to reverse pins 2 and 3 on RS232 (DB9) connector. May be, that TX goes to TX and RX to RX (should be TX->RX, RX<-TX).
- Are you sure, that software that you use is ok?
Regards,
Gregor
