GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

[LightningRods]

Wow, it is rather confusing. Here's a PowerGrip GT2 belt for $18.69 before shipping. Is that the same belt or is there a difference between PowerGrip GT and PowerGrip GT2. :lol:

The PolyChain GT is definitely a different pattern and doesn't seem to be compatible with much else. From reading Gates' literature it seems that the newer PowerGrip GT belts retrofit to the older PowerGrip GT pulleys. There is now not only GT2 but GT3 which has even more power transmission ability, is quieter and has less backlash. I think we are so overkill with any 25mm wide GT belt that GT3 is unnecessary for our purposes. If you are planning on running a big block at 72v, 60amps- maybe.

Yeah, like Miles said.

As far as I can tell, John, the PowerGrip GT2 in this last link should fit my pulleys just fine. A 50% savings! Good find!
http://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc...Belt-5MR-93908107-1037p17468.htm#.UnVXkShpeTN

EDIT: I've ordered one of these 50% off belts as well as the high priced spread Gates belt for $40. I'll let you know if I can observe any difference.

 

[LightningRods]

I've been playing with Wishes' 60v chain drive parts some more today. The adapter hub fits my #219 adapter plate and the 25mm wide GT pulley perfectly:

In addition to being able to bolt up far better quality sprockets and chain, now there is a choice of 64 tooth to 93 tooth driven sprockets. Basically, you can bolt on as much reduction as you physically have room for. A 80 tooth black sprocket is shown next to the 54 tooth GNG sprocket.

I also took a close look at the GNG primary chain, which is a cheap #219, compared to quality Japanese D.I.D. kart chain. The chain I use is their 219HTZ-SDH gold chain which has thicker side plates and heavy duty hardened roller pins. Both the inner and outer plates are about 20% thicker than the GNG chain. What doesn't show is the quality of the metal. The best Japanese and German 219 chains have very good metal in them.

All that's left are driver solutions. The skinny little 'pizza cutter' 11 tooth driver is the worst part of the 60v chain drive. Just like the 14 tooth driver pulley on the belt drive, GNG cheaped out right where it really hurt.

 

[LightningRods]

Royal Supply can't get the GT2 belts at this time.

"This item is currently unavailable from the manufacturer and has an estimated lead time of 3-4 weeks. Would you like to proceed with your order?"

 

[skyungjae]

Royal Supply can't get the GT2 belts at this time.

"This item is currently unavailable from the manufacturer and has an estimated lead time of 3-4 weeks. Would you like to proceed with your order?"

That's a shame. Maybe a bulk order to cut costs on your end perhaps?

I'm in no rush though. :wink: I can't wait until the sealed jackshaft is available for us 1.0 users.

 

[LightningRods]

I've found two different sources that have belts and have placed orders. One is a Gates belt at $40 and the other is a second party manufacturer for about half that amount. When I get both belts I'll report back on them. With luck the less expensive belt will check out. I left my order open with Royal, the company that had Gates belts at half price so I'd know when they're available. Looks like about a month out.

My machinist and I are working on a tough and less expensive steel version of the jackshaft housing. The good thing about this method is that it will be modular and can easily be used to make 100mm jackshafts for the 404 big block. I call it the 404 because it's 4.04" wide and it's often "404- Object not found" when you try to order one on Mister Tao. I plan to make a 100mm kit using this motor. I want a fat bike with a big block- bad.

I wrote to my contact in Shanghai today and ordered 20 small block motors. With these motors and the new jackshaft we can scratch build complete mid drives.

 

[skyungjae]

I've found two different sources that have belts and have placed orders. One is a Gates belt at $40 and the other is a second party manufacturer for about half that amount. When I get both belts I'll report back on them. With luck the less expensive belt will check out. I left my order open with Royal, the company that had Gates belts at half price so I'd know when they're available. Looks like about a month out.

My machinist and I are working on a tough and less expensive steel version of the jackshaft housing. The good thing about this method is that it will be modular and can easily be used to make 100mm jackshafts for the 404 big block. I call it the 404 because it's 4.04" wide and it's often "404- Object not found" when you try to order one on Mister Tao. I plan to make a 100mm kit using this motor. I want a fat bike with a big block- bad.

I wrote to my contact in Shanghai today and ordered 20 small block motors. With these motors and the new jackshaft we can scratch build complete mid drives.

Outstanding! Debating on whether or not to order up some Goodyear 475/15/5 belts to shred up while I wait.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I know it's a little early to conceptualize future builds before the most important current developments are not realized yet, but...if the standard motor can take a fairly continuous 30A and functions well using 48V-100V (1,440W-3,000W), then...the extra width of the 404 should allow more amps/watts in the same very "fittable' 4-1/2 inch diameter form.

Both motors can take higher temporary amp-peaks (of course), as long as the temp sensors warn you when you are getting near the danger zone, but...IF the extra width of the 404 means it can take a fairly continuous 40A, then when using 48V-100V it would be producing 1920W-4,000W.

If you limited the max amps in the controller, the bigger motor would run cooler than the smaller one (if the loads were the same). I think the 404 would be very useful as a left-side drive, which does limit it to being a one-speed, but...it also allows it to use a 415H/428 chain/sprockets going directly to the rear wheel. Just a thought...

 

[iovaykind]

Just wondering if this is the case for everyone with the stock GnG belt driven 48v kit:

At certain RPMs there is a loud resonance which makes the kit much louder. There is a significant resonance that makes a loud howling sound right around 70% throttle. Does anyone else get this, and if so, has there been a solution for this yet?

 

[skyungjae]

Just wondering if this is the case for everyone with the stock GnG belt driven 48v kit:

At certain RPMs there is a loud resonance which makes the kit much louder. There is a significant resonance that makes a loud howling sound right around 70% throttle. Does anyone else get this, and if so, has there been a solution for this yet?

Try taking off the little belt shield thingy.

 

[iovaykind]

Will do.. that little plastic piece I was beginning to guess would be the issue. What's the purpose of it anyway if it doesn't really block anything?

 

[justlooking]

Will do.. that little plastic piece I was beginning to guess would be the issue. What's the purpose of it anyway if it doesn't really block anything?

stops your laces getting caught up in the large wheel ??

 

[iovaykind]

That would make sense for sure. I can't decide on whether I like the raw look more or if I want to enclose the entire kit inside a box. Has anyone done something similar with their kit?

 

[LightningRods]

That would make sense for sure. I can't decide on whether I like the raw look more or if I want to enclose the entire kit inside a box. Has anyone done something similar with their kit?

I'd be sure to allow some air circulation around the motor if you enclose the drives. It is air cooled.

 

[iovaykind]

+1 for naked bike. Thanks for all the info.. now time to quiet down the mid drive as much as possible. Any other methods other than getting rid of the howling from the plastic cover plate?

 

[LightningRods]

+1 for naked bike. Thanks for all the info.. now time to quiet down the mid drive as much as possible. Any other methods other than getting rid of the howling from the plastic cover plate?

The next thing is getting rid of both primary and secondary tensioners. They make noise and suck power. I make adjustable mounting brackets that eliminate the tensioners, do a better job of tensioning the primary and secondary drives, and they're made of thicker, better quality steel and are stronger. PM me if you want more info.

 

[Wishes]

+1 for naked bike. Thanks for all the info.. now time to quiet down the mid drive as much as possible. Any other methods other than getting rid of the howling from the plastic cover plate?

The next thing is getting rid of both primary and secondary tensioners. They make noise and suck power. I make adjustable mounting brackets that eliminate the tensioners, do a better job of tensioning the primary and secondary drives, and they're made of thicker, better quality steel and are stronger. PM me if you want more info.

Both those cheap tensioners contribute significantly to the noise level the stock kit makes. There was a significant different when I removed them thanks to Lightningrods adjustable plates.

Wishes

 

[deepfraught]

As mentioned by someone early on also, belts don't like a reverse bend, I just saw a reminder in a Gates Carbon Belt Drive video while checking the tracking on a new belt drive Alfine 8 commuter I picked up.

 

[iovaykind]

I noticed that the kit is also significantly louder when not actually mounted. Once it is completely installed, while riding, the noise is not much louder than a Magic Pie type of growl, only with the added noise of the freewheel does it sound much different.

 

[iovaykind]

With the stock setup, is anyone able to power wheelie with the GnG? Doesn't seem possible on my setup, even though the batteries were not fully charged. I was running 14s with 3.8v/cell average.. don't think that it was even close to a power wheelie. Doubt fully charged batteries will help.

Just wanted to know if this is the norm or if I'm lacking power somewhere. I can get it into a wheelie, but its weird because I can power wheelie with hubs yet it doesn't seem possible with the GnG unless I switch controllers or something.

 

[Wishes]

With the stock setup, is anyone able to power wheelie with the GnG? Doesn't seem possible on my setup, even though the batteries were not fully charged. I was running 14s with 3.8v/cell average.. don't think that it was even close to a power wheelie. Doubt fully charged batteries will help.

Just wanted to know if this is the norm or if I'm lacking power somewhere. I can get it into a wheelie, but its weird because I can power wheelie with hubs yet it doesn't seem possible with the GnG unless I switch controllers or something.

You should be able to with the stock setup. It could be just the batteries. 3.8 volt is when you start to see voltage sag under load. Try it with full batteries. Keep in mind that you are running only 1000 watts. You can power wheelie with 1000 watt hub motor?

Wishes

 

[bee]

Anyone got a source for an improved GNG 1.1 jackshaft freewheel? Mine has broken after only about 5 hours of riding (4500w though ). Never had issues with the 1.0 freewheel.

 

[skyungjae]

Anyone got a source for an improved GNG 1.1 jackshaft freewheel? Mine has broken after only about 5 hours of riding (4500w though ). Never had issues with the 1.0 freewheel.

It's not the same 12T fanphy? Hmmm... that makes me wonder if those adapters that are available will work with the 1.1. :?

 

[hillyterrain]

Outstanding! Debating on whether or not to order up some Goodyear 475/15/5 belts to shred up while I wait.

skyungjae, I have a pile of untouched belts sitting next to me, I converted to a chain so I have no use for them, I'd be more than happy to pass them on .. they are from vbeltsupply, be glad to help out fellow ES members while they wait for the real deal from LR

 

[bee]

Anyone got a source for an improved GNG 1.1 jackshaft freewheel? Mine has broken after only about 5 hours of riding (4500w though ). Never had issues with the 1.0 freewheel.

It's not the same 12T fanphy? Hmmm... that makes me wonder if those adapters that are available will work with the 1.1. :?

Seems to be some even cheaper 2 pawl freewheel:



I rebuilt it, might work for another hour. The pawls were stuck down.



Any idea how to remove the freewheel? I hammered on it for a while but it didn't budge. It seems to be the standard slotted keyway, but this one is stuck on there really good. I guess I need something like a bearing puller?

 

[skyungjae]

Is that a hex nut holding the freewheel on the jackshaft? Maybe if you take that out then you'll be able to pry off the freewheel with two flat tip screw drivers like the 1.0 freewheel.