GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

[Denisesewa]

I just received my belts, including the 450mm one. I'm not convinced by this option as I really stuggled to put it on and it is an extremely tigth fit on my unit. I will see how long it lasts but im not too confident. I got my 24' wheels back from home and my 180mm travel domain forks too, but the front brake does not fit as it is a post mount and not a ISO. I will either need to buy a new front brake or find an adapter. This sucks as I had a pair of shimano hydro brakes at homes and I forgot them...

So did you give up on the chain drive option? it looked like you had it almost finished , Also, earlier you said you modded the throttle to half twist, can you explain how you did this please.
maybe with a picture/
I am impressed with your riding and videos , I ride trials both Moto and Bike trials so I am building a trials type ride when my kit gets here

 

[bzhwindtalker]

The chain drive is in the works but I needed something to ride! My bike is more and more a ligthweigth trials bike, it is a lot of fun in town and round the campus. I run 2.6 24" duro leopard DH tires front and back , but I will get the 3" for the rear at some point. The shorter BB (131mm) I instaled is causing issues the chain does not stay on. The chainline looks ok but it always jumps under load. Anyway it's raining cats here...
Edit : I made a plastic chain guide and it seems to solve the issue but it is wearing really fast! But the bike seems to weely way better with much more control with the wide 24" wheels

 

[parajared]

I tried the 150mm option and my belt broke after a few rides. In all fairness the belt was damaged a bit from stretching the sucker on.

I currently have a pinch style setup where the 175mm belt gets pinch tightened between two rollerblade bearings. This didn't work for very long because I removed the lower rail to allow room to weld on the pinch tensioner and the belt slipped up onto the edge of the little gear and gobbled up the belt.

I will get another belt ordered, weld a belt guide on, and post some pics up if I get something working.

 

[christerljung]

One good beltmod. option could be just moving the jackshaft forward. I did this when converting to chain.
The process of creating new sheets was fairly simple, it took maybe an hour with standard tools as cutter, drill and filing in aluminium. (these are weaker than standard GNG-sheets but it doesnt matter when combined with a torque-strut)
The sheets get the jackshaft 15mm further away from the motor pulley. Im thinkin about creating one more pair of sheets with 25mm extension. With these it could be possible to have a huge 8:1 first reduction, belt or chain. Then it would be fun to get a bigger 50tooth on the pedal driven side. Finally a bike with slow trailspeed and correct cadense 70kph+ with pedalassist. 8)

 

[parajared]

this stemmed from my original idea of using a c-clamp as a tensioner

 

[parajared]

One good beltmod option could be just moving the jackshaft forward. I did this when converting to chain.

The GNG needs a bigger reduction for sure; I am convinced this is more of a 36 volt machine, but the phase wires are too small for the amperage you would have to push at 36 volts. Moving the jackshaft forward does not sound easy to me. Perhaps we have different skill levels working metal, but re-fabricating an entirely new mount sounds pretty tough.

I think a neat mod would be to modify it so your bike is a 27 speed or even a 18 speed again.
That way you could creep up the steepest of hills at in your low gear and hit mid 40s maybe even 50mph (80kph) in your top gear.
This would be great for when the terrain changes on you and you want to go fast.

I think this could be achieved by buying a longer bb spindle (maybe from sickbikeparts.com) and a chainring or two.

Does anyone know how many teeth you can go up at once? Usually the gears are ten teeth larger than the next, but could you have a 36 and a 56t chainwheel paired together and expect to be able to change gears using your shifter?

What size chainwheel does the GNG use? Is this a 110mm? 135mm?

 

[t3sla]

The chain drive is in the works but I needed something to ride! My bike is more and more a ligthweigth trials bike, it is a lot of fun in town and round the campus. I run 2.6 24" duro leopard DH tires front and back , but I will get the 3" for the rear at some point. The shorter BB (131mm) I instaled is causing issues the chain does not stay on. The chainline looks ok but it always jumps under load. Anyway it's raining cats here...
Edit : I made a plastic chain guide and it seems to solve the issue but it is wearing really fast! But the bike seems to weely way better with much more control with the wide 24" wheels

Can you please post pics of the DIY chain guide

 

[Denisesewa]

One good beltmod option could be just moving the jackshaft forward. I did this when converting to chain.

Does anyone know how many teeth you can go up at once? Usually the gears are ten teeth larger than the next, but could you have a 36 and a 56t chainwheel paired together and expect to be able to change gears using your shifter?

What size chainwheel does the GNG use? Is this a 110mm? 135mm?

Looks like the peddle chainring is a 38 tooth 64 BCD, I think the only way to get a bigger chainring would be to redrill a solid BMX sprocket although you would then have to use a singlespeed chain which would limit the cassette to being a 7 speed and you would not have ramps on the chainring to help with shifting, the other alternative would be to use the original chainring as an adapter redrilled to accomadate bolting on a larger bcd chainring.
Shifting 20 tooth differance is possible with a high end derailiur but would be sketchy and would have to be spaced as if there where 3 rings to get proper rise from the derailiur along with having to click twice on the shifter( I was doing this after damaging my middle ring on my Maverick), not feasible in my opinion. since several poeple are having issues with dropping the chain already I think multiple chainrings would just complicate the problem and induce even more severe chainline issues.
I just finished adapting a 24 inch ( from 26") downhill wheel to my DJ to help lower the gear ratio, I'm thinking I'll start with a 12 to 34 cassette and then after testing decide the minimal amount of gears I need and build a custom cassette with perhaps 3 or 4 gears, this will help in a couple of ways, shifting will offset the chainline less and I'll be able to move the "mini cassette" around on the hub to acheive the best possible chainline and with proper spacing within the cassette I'll be able to use a heavier chain, finding a high end 7 speed derailiur is going to be a problem though, perhaps my X9 -9 spd derailiur will work with a 7 shifter. I'm also hoping I can mod my double front chainguide which is BB mounted to work with the kit.
I'm getting ahead of myself, my kit just hit US customs this morning, Waiting, waiting.

 

[crossbreak]

Cyclone also have B.B. style mid drive kit max 2900W top speed 75km/h, and the dual 1680W top speed 105km/h

feel free to update the wiki page http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/EBike_Motors_Middrive

 

[heathyoung]

Sigh. Vendors posting competitive products - yawn. Wake me up when the overheating, gearbox fragility and reduction ratio problems get solved.

A post from a vendor who has a competitive product within a thread discussing their competitors product is... insert adjective here.

Product improvement is great, moving away from the original external headline controllers that were unreliable at best, but has the core problem with the cyclone been addressed - namely pedal cadence at 48V? Or the gearbox munching at higher power levels due to poorly hardened gears? Or the heat issues?

Its moderatly amusing that someone posted about the new design here (http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45903) - and I made the comparison to GNG, and then the cyclone rep turns up here as well - coincidence?

 

[crossbreak]

Sigh. Vendors posting competitive products - yawn. Wake me up when the overheating, gearbox fragility and reduction ratio problems get solved.

I'd like to see some admin solve this problem...but at least he forced me to post a link to the wiki

 

[deepfraught]

"OnePostPaco" is a cool nickname for the next 5min til you post again, but "TwoPostPaco" also sounds good =D
I think the GNG is cheap, assembly of simpler and greater varierty option of parts, modest power target, decent 23A current limit stock controller.
I stayed away from the Cyclone because of cost and poor quality reputation, where the motor is tied to the planetary reduction. Would it not have the problems if aiming for 450W also? May be a lesson in the trade off we all face of power/reliability/cheap.
PS: GNG doesn't have it over Cyclone on pedal assist cadence that Heath discussed on the Cyclone Cadence thread, but I find I use throttle bursts and pedal rest of the time (where I have the pedal gearing to allow pedalling).

 

[crossbreak]

Even at 450W the cyclone would be loader I guess, as often discussed. It's also more wide than the GNG. Can one of these chinese guys please design a drive that fits my stock BB?

 

[melodious]

What are the odds that someone in ES hasn't already taken the forum name of "Paco" :? . Growing up in California, I've had a few friends with the nickname "Paco" and they all were pretty cool. Someone kick this company clone out so someone real can take it. :lol: That is unless this member is a unique individual and not some doppleganger.

Anyways, competition is good as it leads to progress. It would appear they are lurking here for the next big thing to rear it's head then simply steal the idea and mass produce it for simple folks like myself to consume.

http://www.gngebike.com/mid-drive-kits VS. http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-3chain.htm

 

[crossbreak]

It would appear they are lurking here for the next big thing to rear it's head then simply steal the idea and mass produce it for simple folks like myself to consume.

That's a problem of all open source people. I dont post all ideas i have, since i think that some might be copied. GNG sells a converted hubmotor now, after converted one myself to a middrive and claimed much increased cooling, I posted it a year ago. It's all about competition, who on the sphere build has the best bike? So this is at least the right place to search.

 

[tri-lobe]

Hi members.....

I say let them steal and copy our ideas...at the end of the day ....you or me are the originator of our're ideas not them..if you have posted on ES whith you idea ....then no-one can deny the published date accredited to you...you are first..they just followed...

 

[melodious]

Is there a reason that we shouldn't consider buying these mid drive kits in their current state? I'm talking stock 48V, 36V, or less. Or are there existing issues that need to be resolved with the motor mount or the gears? I want to be able to add my pedal cadence to that of the motor. I don't want to be a slave to the motor. But at the same time, I want to be able to burn rubber like the fittest bicyclist on the planet.

 

[crossbreak]

I don't want to be a slave to the motor. But at the same time, I want to be able to burn rubber like the fittest bicyclist on the planet.

Just gear your drive according to these rules and you should be fine http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Gearing_a_mid_motor And dont expect to get 1000W+ through your derailleurs for a long time without hassle I can only encourage you to read through the wiki and add points net yet processed.

 

[Rassy]

melodious, I think it's a great unit for the price. Right off the bat some were using it hard and/or pushing more amps/volts through it. So of course we heard of some failures. The chain tension spring was listed as a problem, but simply removing the spring and tensioning the chain in one spot is all that was needed. The belt tension on mine was loose, but once I discovered the tension could be adjusted, that problem went away.

The fact that it will drive your pedals faster then you want to pedal is often listed as a problem. I merely see that as a plus as you always have a little power to spare. I realize some like to always ride with the throttle pegged, but I prefer to use my throttle and gears to match the motor speed to my preferred cadence. I wanted a hill climber and it does that great, even with 700C wheels. On my 15% grade hill it lugged below 10 MPH in 3rd gear, but picked up over 11 MPH in 2nd gear.

The largest problem I have is the touchy throttle. I'm going to try a different controller soon. I've actually gotten used to the throttle and could live with it, but this one is probably going to my 59 year old sister and I'm sure she would be happier with a more standard acceleration curve.

So my conclusion is that the GNG kit is great if you have hills and don't plan to abuse it.

 

[crossbreak]

The largest problem I have is the touchy throttle. I'm going to try a different controller soon. I've actually gotten used to the throttle and could live with it, but this one is probably going to my 59 year old sister and I'm sure she would be happier with a more standard acceleration curve.

What you want is a controller with phase current limit http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Motor_Controller, i guess

WHYY gng have 80 watt no load consupmtion
WHYYY WHYYYYYYYYY

It's more like a hundred isn't it?

 

[tri-lobe]

Hello crossbreak....

Could you reccomend a brand name that would be suitable please.....for 48v...

 

[crossbreak]

there is no stock one yet. Get a GNG or cyclone and gear it right...

 

[eride]

Hi
I just got my Lyen 9 FET Infineon Brushless Controller and plan running it on a 48V/15Ah LFP.
Anybody sorted out the proper phase/hall wire combination?
What are the right number of pole set on my CA?
thx

 

[christerljung]

For the 12FET Lyen it was the first row in this sheet:
http://www24.brinkster.com/lyen/product/controller/Sensored_Combination_Worksheet_V2.htm
But you might have to go trial and error with all the combinations. CA is just to plug in, at least on the 12FET.

Good Luck!
/C

 

[eride]

Thanks C.
I still cant make it work. Tried all 36 settings for hall and phase.
1st setting in scheme seems to be the best (motor sounds okay) but under load it still sucks....pulses in power delivery and its so slow and lazy. (max 25-30 Kmh)
I tried several Set#Poles on the CA 0-10,12, 23, 46 (and others) but its still the same or worse....
I did set the Rshunt to 2.000 mOhm before testing today
Any ideas of what parameters I can change to makes things right? Would like to hear from member who run this GNG kit with a Lyen 9FET controller and CA (V2.25)
Thx //F