Not as close as it looks with that photo angle... and I don't intend to do highly technical single track. Still, I may consider one of those CYC or similar magnetic mount batteries in the future. Those should work inside the triangle.
Ham said:
Avoiding bumps may be wise full stop with your battery that close to the wheel... looks like any compression of the forks with contact the battery ...
I did a couple of short test rides yesterday and, wow, this thing really moves. Not like my Triumph, of course!... but a lot more capable than my other e-bike, the TSDZ2 running on OSF. The TSDZ2, however, seems to have more seamless performance whilst riding pedelec on the torque sensor. On that bike I use what the OSF guys call "hybrid mode" in their latest versions that modifies the power assist curve based not only on torque but on power. This allows the assist to adapt to higher cadence and power levels more smoothly.
The minor "issue" I see on the CYC is this. Say I am in top gear pedaling at 20 mph and I want to go 25 mph. I press harder on the pedals and accelerate to 25. But as I ease off the pedals at the newly elevated cadence and higher power level the assist comes off a bit too much and too quickly which makes it not as smooth as it could be. The difference of course is the cadence... more RPM therefore less pressure on the pedals.
I haven't yet got the app connected to explore the various settings but I haven't seen anything here about different ride modes. Maybe we need to put a bug in CYC's ear to explore this. Or maybe the OSF guys will eventually get around to these. They are doing some amazing work.
Edit: never mind, guys. Looks like I had the non BAC CYC app installed. I installed the correct version for the BAC controllers and I am connected.
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Hey ES brain trust... I am unable to connect my newly installed CYC X1 Gen 2 with BAC855 controller to the CYC remote app. Some sort of Bluetooth issue or failure. My iOS devices (iPhone XR and iPad mini) fail to find the CYC... seems like the CYC controller Bluetooth isn't turned on, or else it's busted. I didn't see anywhere in the manuals that you need to turn the CYC's BT on, nor do I see that option in the display menus. I do have location services enable for the CYC app as per the manual. I have an ancient Android device around and if I can get that to to work I'll give that a try.
I have the CYC Gen 2 3000W, being installed on a Surly Moonlander at the moment.
I don't particularly like the throttle options with the CYC - I would prefer a short half throttle, where I can add an Ergon flat grip. I can't just cut the CYC half grip, it attaches at the bar end.
Is there an existing half throttle with a female Julet connector that works?
I am enjoying my X1 G2 so far... but I may want to play with chainrings. The inner pedaling rings are widely available but does anyone have a source for the motor drive 219H rings? I know, I could buy another assembled pair from CYC but I have plenty of inner rings and just want to try a different outer 219h ring. New one doesn't need to have holes to mount the guard like on the OEM CYC. That seems unnecessary.
Hey guys,
I currently have a BBSHD on my mountain bike. Is there anyone that can compare the BBSHD to the X1 Pro? Has anyone done a comparison of the pro's cons of each system? Also how does this system do off road. I only ride off road just on the weekends on Single Track All Mountain Trail riding. I'm looking to do a new build but want to do something a little different.
Hey, Geo... I don't have a BBSHD but I have a TSDZ2 on a city bike and a CYC X1Pro Gen 2 on my Stumpjumper (see the build on the previous page). One area the CYC should be better than the BBS is the torque sense. You can more easily modulate the power to the tire by the pressure on the pedals like you do on a pedal bike. Seems to me the on/off nature of PAS would be very difficult to deal with at least on the type of technical terrain we have around here... trying to get just the right oomph and lift over every rock in a rock garden or over a log is hard enough. PAS would crash me out for sure. The other area where the CYC shines is ground clearance. Not perfect, but better.
Two issues with CYC... first is the Q factor. The axle is quite long probably to accommodate the torque sensor and freewheel mech. But similar for my TSDz2 and I suspect also your BBS. See photo below comparing to the one that came out of my Stumpy. The other thing is that there is a very slight (fraction of a second) delay between when you start pedaling and the motor kicks in. As long as you keep pedaling the power will be continuous and proportional to torque but if you coast a bit that delay will again be there. Getting used to that timing when approaching obstacles will take some time. I suspect PAS operates this way so you probably can deal with it. I liken it to getting used to a new car with manual transmission... getting the timing between the clutch and accelerator to make smooth shifts.
Oh, the other good thing about the CYC is that going back and forth between pedaling and throttle is totally smooth and seamless.
geosped said:
Hey guys,
I currently have a BBSHD on my mountain bike. Is there anyone that can compare the BBSHD to the X1 Pro? Has anyone done a comparison of the pro's cons of each system? Also how does this system do off road. I only ride off road just on the weekends on Single Track All Mountain Trail riding. I'm looking to do a new build but want to do something a little different.
Hey guys,
I currently have a BBSHD on my mountain bike. Is there anyone that can compare the BBSHD to the X1 Pro? Has anyone done a comparison of the pro's cons of each system? Also how does this system do off road. I only ride off road just on the weekends on Single Track All Mountain Trail riding. I'm looking to do a new build but want to do something a little different.
I have an X1 on my enduro but its a gen1. I am using an ERT-programmed BAC800 - at the time the Cyc controller was not even a thought and as you probably know they abandoned it themselves eventually.
So I won't comment on the motor's performance as you'll get something different. But I will note that compared to a BBSHD this is one noisy little bugger. You have to expect that thanks to the dual chain, and the chain tensioner is also a major contributor. You can buy brass gears now to try and quiet it... some. I suspect at the expense of some durability?
But bottom line: You aren't going to be fooling anyone that you are motorized on the trail. They'll hear you coming no matter what you do to try and stealthify yourself.
One other good thing about the CYC is you get a pretty much perfect chainline and it doesn't require an offset chainring to retain excellent shifting and to prevent dropping chains.
Indeed, yes it makes some noise. If only that fellow who did a one-off belt drive for his would market a kit... or at least post detailed plans that we could take to a machine shop.
MoneyPit said:
So I won't comment on the motor's performance as you'll get something different. But I will note that compared to a BBSHD this is one noisy little bugger. You have to expect that thanks to the dual chain, and the chain tensioner is also a major contributor. You can buy brass gears now to try and quiet it... some. I suspect at the expense of some durability?
But bottom line: You aren't going to be fooling anyone that you are motorized on the trail. They'll hear you coming no matter what you do to try and stealthify yourself.
One other good thing about the CYC is you get a pretty much perfect chainline and it doesn't require an offset chainring to retain excellent shifting and to prevent dropping chains.
I've had a couple of BBSHD with offset chainrings. Also I have a 1000 miles off off-road riding over a year and a half on two bikes with slightly off chainlines with out ever have broken anything. Not even a chain. Chain pops are easily addressed with a chain guide for less that $20. I had some perfect chainlines and would still get the occasional popoff. I never bought off on the chainline thing. I see it and I hear the argument but I've personally never had an issue and I have a lot of hard miles. The noise thing would be a huge issue too. The BBSHD is very quite and it's been very reliable. I do feel the biggest drawback is how heavy , throttle is very jerky out of the box and it does seem to hang down quite a bit. Big issue when trying to clear stumps.
The chainline issue I see is it sometimes pops off the cassette when the angle gets extreme. Nothing at all wrong with offset chainrings... I just got one for my TSDZ2... it's just that needing one limits your choices and costs more $$ than standard rings.
geosped said:
I've had a couple of BBSHD with offset chainrings. Also I have a 1000 miles off off-road riding over a year and a half on two bikes with slightly off chainlines with out ever have broken anything. Not even a chain. Chain pops are easily addressed with a chain guide for less that $20. I had some perfect chainlines and would still get the occasional popoff. I never bought off on the chainline thing. I see it and I hear the argument but I've personally never had an issue and I have a lot of hard miles. The noise thing would be a huge issue too. The BBSHD is very quite and it's been very reliable. I do feel the biggest drawback is how heavy , throttle is very jerky out of the box and it does seem to hang down quite a bit. Big issue when trying to clear stumps.
finished installing this (3000w) motor on a Surly Moonlander, and took it for the first test ride.
Very impressive motor, and not at all as noisy as I was expecting. running on 18S battery. Base settings on the controller are good - I haven't experimented as yet.
The battery bag I found (Moosetreks) fitted like it was made for the bike. Internally, the battery is enclosed on bottom and 2 sides by a polycarbonate box, which provides protection and support. The cassette is an 8 speed with an 8 speed kmc chain, but with the cogs reordered to just use 5 - which also gives a better chainline. Handlebars are Sunlite 5" rise.
Cranks aren't great - I struggled to get the pedals in without stripping. To be replaced with steel bmx cranks. Also, need to make a cover for the exposed wires where they exit the motor - bottom and top.
Next up is a dropper post and a Cloud 9 seat. Bike feels like it could climb a vertical wall.
Ah... I thought the 18s battery required the BAC 2000. I have the x1 Pro Gen 2 on my MTB running on 14S (52V) also with the BAC 855. I agree these things work great right out of the box. Only thing I changed so far was to swap the 32t chainring for a 38t and lose the guard... and I still get spun out pedaling. So top speed achieved on throttle... I prefer to pedal so I may try to fit a 42t but not sure it will clear the chainstay.
I read the below on their website, and had an 18s battery available, so used that
"Compatible Batteries
The ASI controllers support 36 to 72V batteries (nominal voltage). In order words, 10s to 20s lithium batteries (fully charged 20s equalling to 84V).
The BAC855 controller can handle 80A maximum phase current (4.5N.m. of torque form the motor and 160N.m. at the crank) and requires 50A continuous and 60A peak battery current to run at its maximum performance.
BAC855 voltages and expected power:
2000W with 36V batteries
2650W with 48V batteries
2800W with 52V batteries
3000W with 60V batteries
3200W with 72V batteries "
Only thing I changed so far was to swap the 32t chainring for a 38t and lose the guard... and I still get spun out pedaling. So top speed achieved on throttle... I prefer to pedal so I may try to fit a 42t but not sure it will clear the chainstay.
I haven't tried pedaling along yet, purely because I am not happy with the cranks - the pedals aren't installed properly. Will report back once I have sorted them out. Bike gets to 40km/h on the biggest rear cog - which was meant to be my climbing gear -, so top speed will be way more than that
The pedal function works well, IMO. Just a tiny and typical bit of delay for assist to kick in. I had no issues with the cranks. Typical generic square drive and the pedals installed easily. But I wish they'd make them ISIS or Shimano splined. I e-mailed CYC about that and they said it had to do with the torque sensor but, pardon the pun, that doesn't make sense to me.
PRW said:
I haven't tried pedaling along yet, purely because I am not happy with the cranks - the pedals aren't installed properly. Will report back once I have sorted them out. Bike gets to 40km/h on the biggest rear cog - which was meant to be my climbing gear -, so top speed will be way more than that
I did a good 30 road miles yesterday and had a great ride. Mostly keeping in between assist 1 and 3 (of 9). So I got a good workout and went fast... and had plenty of battery left over. One thing that I was reminded of again was when I briefly put it in level 9 and pedaled and throttled a bit... make sure you bring along a chain tool and a spare quick link for the bicycle chain. Because if you aren't careful on shifts, especially on high assist, you are gonna break something. I think I have that in my seat tool kit but I will check to make sure before I head out again. It really isn't hard to back off pedaling or blip the throttle to get a smooth shift... but sometimes you might forget.
Did my first single track ride on this bike today and it was fantastic. 7 mile cruise on pave over to the trailhead, 7 miles of nice flowy up and down narrow singletrack... not very technical, no long climbs but a bunch of transitions from downhill to short 10% ish climbs. The bike handled it easily. I rode in assist 2 and 3 (of 9) and that was plenty since the terrain limits my speed, even when I ride all human, except on the climbs.
Only issue I had was a stick getting caught in the chainring that derailed the chain. Just a quick stop to put it back on. Then 7 miles back a different way with gravel doubletrack and more pave. Coming out of the singletrack there is about a one mile pave downhill and I put in assist 9 and hit the gas. 50 mph. Yee haw. On the level down below it maintained 45 mph... That little blast cost some extra watt hours but terminal voltage was 52v so still plenty left.
It did so well I am tempted to take it to one of our more technical trails. One issue is that I swapped the pedaling chainring to a 38t from the 32 it came with to make it faster on the road without me getting spun out figuring I'd use this bike more on the road and gravel than single track. But this slight overdrive configuration may be an issue on our steeper MTB trails that get over 25%. It still might work with me pedaling hard. We'll see... I suppose I could always swap the 32t back in if I find myself doing more off road. And I don't really cruise on the road faster than 25ish mph anyway in which case the 32t would be fine. Wastes too much battery to sustain those 25+ speeds... and I believe it will still hit close to the same top speed on throttle which is way beyond spun out for pedaling on either chainring.
I have the steel gears and I would call it loud. I used to run the tangent which made a different sound, but more people tend to notice this gear box as I come up on them on trails or the street...
I would be curious to know what the brass gears sound like, or helical cut gears...
One thing that I was reminded of again was when I briefly put it in level 9 and pedaled and throttled a bit... make sure you bring along a chain tool and a spare quick link for the bicycle chain. Because if you aren't careful on shifts, especially on high assist, you are gonna break something. I think I have that in my seat tool kit but I will check to make sure before I head out again. It really isn't hard to back off pedaling or blip the throttle to get a smooth shift... but sometimes you might forget.
