GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

[Ham]

Weird, my old Tangent was definitely louder than this gen 2 kit

 

[PRW]

I didn't like how the wires and controller were exposed underneath the bike



Used a polyester cast (like for broken arms) in strips to make up a cover, which was further reinforced with resin to give more rigidity. There is still good airflow at the sides and top, but the underside is a lot more protected. The cover is unnoticeable when the bike is upright

 

[raylo32]

Pretty cool solution. Only worry is that blocking airflow might make the controller prone to overheat.

I didn't like how the wires and controller were exposed underneath the bike

c0.jpg

Used a polyester cast (like for broken arms) in strips to make up a cover, which was further reinforced with resin to give more rigidity. There is still good airflow at the sides and top, but the underside is a lot more protected. The cover is unnoticeable when the bike is upright

 

[PRW]

Pretty cool solution. Only worry is that blocking airflow might make the controller prone to overheat.

I didn't like how the wires and controller were exposed underneath the bike

c0.jpg

Used a polyester cast (like for broken arms) in strips to make up a cover, which was further reinforced with resin to give more rigidity. There is still good airflow at the sides and top, but the underside is a lot more protected. The cover is unnoticeable when the bike is upright

I am hoping that as the sides and top are not covered, and with the controller having thermal rollback, there will be no issues

 

[orangecrumble]

Hey guys,
I currently have a BBSHD on my mountain bike. Is there anyone that can compare the BBSHD to the X1 Pro? Has anyone done a comparison of the pro's cons of each system? Also how does this system do off road. I only ride off road just on the weekends on Single Track All Mountain Trail riding. I'm looking to do a new build but want to do something a little different.

Don't know if you have built a CYC yet but I started out with a cyclone kit that turned out to be a completely custom install, then fitted tsdz2 to numerous bikes with various osf software versions and displays, then built a BBSHD fatbike with "Karls" settings, then an x1 pro gen 2.
I got fed up with bad chainlines on the kit bikes and numerous workarounds and now have a perfect chainline on my cyc using a modern boost chainline frame. I have a 38t chainring version with a 11-46 rear and I can spin out but don't care about top speed as I use this as a MTB. I have a motorcycle that breaks all speed limits, goes 3 hours on one charge and charges in minutes due to unleaded, but I can't take it on local trails, even with scottish access rights, and can't carry it on sections that I can't ride.
The BBSHD definitely had more power than the tsdz2 but the PAS response was a bit on and off compared to the tsdz2 and made technical singletrack more of a motocross experience rather than a trials section. Started riding fatbike on throttle more of the time. I had expected more power from the BBSHD over the tsdz2 but put the marginal improvement down to my 48v unknown cells battery. with 30A bms. Responsiveness to pedal input is a definite improvement over tsdz2, better quality torque sensor, better quality controller and pawl freewheel rather than sprag clutch probably all contribute.
Still building my custom battery for my X1 pro so I used my fatbike battery and I have removed the throttle as the PAS is natural and responsive and it's my bicycle not my motorbike. X1 pro set to 1250w at the moment due to battery and performance seems better than the BBSHD at 28A and seems to consume less power. Both are faster than my brother who is on a tsdz2 osf. Looking forward to a bit more power when I build my 52V 60A battery but suspect the only times I will consider using it are when I spot someone slogging uphill on a £6k factory ebike ahead of me.
BBSHD definitely quieter than any of the other setups, tsdz2 ridden with both plastic and brass gears I would rate BBSHD as 1, tsdz2 as 2 with plastic, tsdz2 as 3 with brass and CYC x1 pro with brass as 4. My old cyclone had steel gears and was more of an angry wasp 5.
Considered the cost of a CYC as an expensive outlay, then thought about BBSHD and upgrading chainring and controller and thought similar money is involved in both and the BBSHD will never have a torque sensor. The tsdz2 is a great budget option but some of the tolerances are dubious but it's easy and cheap to fix when you break it.
I have tried fitting tsdz2 and BBSHD to some mtb frames and found that clearing the chainstays with the motor is either impossible or exaggerates the bad chainline to the extent that splitting cassettes only gives 3 useable gears.
All of them are good in their own way but I would definitely walk past the others to get on my x1 pro at the moment.

 

[raylo32]

Hey Orange, great post comparing many of the common options... only thing lacking, a review of the CYC Stealth! I am like you, I really need and want a torque sense setup else I'd get a BBS, but that's apparently never gonna happen. I have an OSF TSDZ2 on a hardtail and an X1Pro Gen 2 on a dual suspension Stumpy. Both work great and my TSDZ2 is essentially dead quiet with plastic gears. This may vary from motor to motor. Thinking of trying a CYC Stealth on my gravel bike to make a light and efficient machine for road and gravel riding (I have separate wheelsets with appropriate tires for each).

Oh, I kept the throttle on my X1 pro Gen 2. I have a 38t chain ring and 12 t cassette so get spun out around 30 ish, but the throttle is there if and when I want to go faster, like 40+.

 

[banshee28]

Also starting to consider a CYC for a new FS build one day, not sure if I want the Stealth or X1 pro Gen 2. I know the Gen 2 would have the most power, esp with the upgraded controller, but would I be able to use it for trail riding? Not many hills here but one day hope to take it to other places with more hills.

The price diff is only $100-200 or so, and I think the main difference is the Stealth is smaller so looks more Stealth, lol. Should I consider the Stealth or in my case would the Pro Gen 2 be the one to get, esp to future proof things?

Also are these 2 models similar as far as how new and updated they are?

 

[PRW]

I was planning on a Stealth for my Surly Moonlander build, but had to change to X1Pro Gen 2 as the Stealth only fits 68mm, 73mm, & 83mm width bottom brackets. Happy to have the greater power and the fact that it has been tested for longer than the Stealth as a tradeoff for the size difference

 

[orangecrumble]

Sorry there's no review of a stealth, think my bike looks reasonably stealthy. CYC still stating a 10 to 12 week lead time, electroncycles.co.uk now listing them as an option but out of stock (priced higher than x1 pro). I'd be reluctant to build a fast road bike as I don't really want points on my licence for riding a bicycle.
Might reconsider the throttle once I have built my battery (I had difficulty getting the app to reduce my throttle output in race mode and shut my battery down) Also wanted no throttle for street startup and found when I reduced throttle output to 0w that it just stopped all power when peddaling..

 

[raylo32]

Yup, same here in the states. You can also order directly from CYC in HK. Current Stealth price there is $838 US on sale. But then it also costs $100 US shipping and they have the same 10-12 week delivery time.

I have my X1 Pro Stumpy set up for 1500W with an EM3EV 52V 12 Ah Samsung Q cell pack. Not experiencing any cut outs. As for power, the Stealth, if it really makes 1500W, will be plenty for me. ~45mph is as fast as I want to go on the road and no way I ever need anything close to that on our technical MTB trails. I have only gone 55ish on my pedal road bike on a few extreme downhills. Not something I have a need to do very often. One little pothole, pebble, deer, or piece of glass... or a car pulling out of a driveway... and it's all over. Or like a buddy of mine who recently hit a pothole on his road bike and did a high speed face plant on the pave. He needs major dental reconstruction and is lucky to be alive.

Love your dropper post. I just added one to my TSDZ2 Cannondale F1000.

Sorry there's no review of a stealth, think my bike looks reasonably stealthy. IMG_20210827_093315.jpgCYC still stating a 10 to 12 week lead time, electroncycles.co.uk now listing them as an option but out of stock (priced higher than x1 pro). I'd be reluctant to build a fast road bike as I don't really want points on my licence for riding a bicycle.
Might reconsider the throttle once I have built my battery (I had difficulty getting the app to reduce my throttle output in race mode and shut my battery down) Also wanted no throttle for street startup and found when I reduced throttle output to 0w that it just stopped all power when peddaling..

 

[bitnaut]

Finally received my 52V 20.5Ah triangle battery for my Borealis Crestone X1 Pro Gen 2 build! :lol:



Compared to my older BBSHD build, definitely way more power on the throttle but I can’t get used to the pedaling. It’s so different from the BBSHD or maybe I haven’t set up the PAS correctly. More experimentation is needed I guess.

If anyone would like to share the PAS settings that work for them, I’d be interested in trying them out.

Thanks!

 

[orangecrumble]

I can’t get used to the pedaling. It’s so different from the BBSHD or maybe I haven’t set up the PAS correctly. More experimentation is needed I guess.

If anyone would like to share the PAS settings that work for them, I’d be interested in trying them out.

Thanks!

I had the reverse problem, couldn't get used to BBSHD PAS. The BBSHD PAS setup (mostly Karls as stock was awful) I have still seems to reward ghost pedalling, I can get my bike to assist more by not spinning as when I get to higher cadence it starts to reduce the assist. This seems weird when used to torque sensor and pedal power being used to calculate assist. Having tweaked lots of settings with my tsdz2 osf over many miles I had an idea of how to tweak my cyc and found it pretty good out of the box, the app manual makes sense if you are used to the variables. Also tweaked other peoples bikes and usually got them smiling.
Your riding style has a lot to do with the direction you want to tweak it, I seek out different tracks on different bikes and want different settings for optimum but find that getting the sensitivity of the torque sensor right is always a good base point.
Torque sensors return higher values when you are pulling away and standing on the pedals, strong and heavy people obviously produce bigger numbers than weaker and lighter riders. Cadence also affects the human power input calculations in the controller.
I think my CYC underestimates the human power that I am giving but I don't care as I like the way it rides.
My changes have been to the "Pedalec power gain" (PPG) and "pedal speed map end"(psme). The controller came set with 0.6 for PPG and I notice the manual screenshot has a value of 2, I changed it to 0.7 and feel that it is closer to the sensitivity I like. The psme was set to 120 and the manual shows 64, 120 was a cadence that I used to reach when I cycled competitively 30years ago but given the extra power there seemed no sense in trying to get max sensitivity that high and brought it to 80 as that's about my comfort zone.
I find with CYC that using the power levels can also dramatically change it's characteristics and I'm only using 1250w but full power seems to create a magnetic field in the undergrowth, come to think on it my BBSHD behaves the same.
Work out how you like to pedal and go for it.

 

[raylo32]

Exactly. For serious pedal bike cyclists plain cadence sense PAS is just atrocious and an unnatural way to ride a bike. But the OP may be able to do that with the CYC X1 in the app. I haven't been in the app since I did my install but it may allow you to choose the type of assist, torque or PAS. Not sure but go in the app and take a look. Better still just to embrace torque sensing. It is FAR superior to PAS.

I had the reverse problem, couldn't get used to BBSHD PAS.

 

[orangecrumble]

For serious pedal bike cyclists plain cadence sense PAS is just atrocious and an unnatural way to ride a bike.

I agree, that's why I forgot to mention that choosing single hall in the pedal sensor type sets it to just cadence.

 

[Ham]

Has anyone managed to run this kit through a cycle analyst and retain the PAS functionality of the bottom bracket torque sensor that comes with the kit?

Thanks

 

[scianiac]

Has anyone managed to run this kit through a cycle analyst and retain the PAS functionality of the bottom bracket torque sensor that comes with the kit?

Thanks

HrKlev is using the CYC bottom bracket torque sensor with the Cycle Analyst over here, although it seems there are some wire that don't go anywhere, not a ton of details on how it works.

 

[raylo32]

Anyone else get an email from CYC pitching their "freewheel 2.0"? Not sure what benefits it is supposed to confer. They linked an install video but no mention of why one would even want to spend $ on this?

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

saw it posted on cyc fb group..

"Hello CYC Owners..
So the new Freewheel 2.0 upgrade is available... great... what's so special about it? Well, we've over-'specced' it a bit:
- Instant engagement
- Rated torque is much higher (350 N.m.)
- 2 Bearing support
- Better water proofing
- Virtually silent with no kicking sound
- A LOT more durable

Check out the video below to see exactly how to install the Freewheel 2.0 upgrade kit."

[youtube]KYlXQiNyldE[/youtube]

 

[raylo32]

I saw the video. But it doesn't answer the question of why we need this or what benefits it offers over the old working freewheel??

Check out the video below to see exactly how to install the Freewheel 2.0 upgrade kit."

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

you don't understand the benefits?.. or you don't understand why they are not explained in the install video???

here is an owner initial impression from same fb group..

"Just installed the freewheel upgrade.
1. Its beefier and weighs more.
2. Its damn near silent as in the video.
3. The connection bite as soon as you apply pedal pressure is instant. Were as the old it had tons of slop.
4. Comes with all new screws and spacers to connect your old chainring to the new freewheel and the new 104bcd motor sprocket and for your old chain guard to the sprocket...

My opinion, it looks and feels great. If it wasn't pouring cats and dogs I'd go test it. I'll report back tomorrow with an update..."

 

[Ham]

Has anyone managed to run this kit through a cycle analyst and retain the PAS functionality of the bottom bracket torque sensor that comes with the kit?

Thanks

HrKlev is using the CYC bottom bracket torque sensor with the Cycle Analyst over here, although it seems there are some wire that don't go anywhere, not a ton of details on how it works.

Thank you for the connection to that thread, very helpful.

 

[NexusG]

from now on, is new X1 Pro / Stealth ordered will be delivered with the v2 freewheel ?

EDIT : I see there's an option for the V2 freewheel when ordering but it is not available if you select the BB92 bottom bracket option. I don't know why

 

[pwd]

I wonder what the four bolt pattern is on that freewheel 2.0 and if it can be used on other mid-drive setups? How does it attach to the crank arms?

 

[Ecyclist]

I wonder what the four bolt pattern is on that freewheel 2.0 and if it can be used on other mid-drive setups? How does it attach to the crank arms?

It's 104 BCD and yes it can be used that way. Unfortunately this freewheel is kind of wide and this can be a problem.

 

[NexusG]

They have just received the freewheel 2.0 parts for the pressfit version
It is now possible to order the new freewheel with pressfit bottom bracket