Alan B
100 GW
I don't have a Lenovo charger, but my HP chargers run pretty hot. They could use an external fan. It would not work to tape them together or in any way restrict their cooling.
GT i-drive 2.0 Build
- Thread starter GCinDC
- Start date
GCinDC said:New bulk chargers. The little black things on the right shown w/ my meanwell/icharger combo for size comparison!
The 'bulk charger' is made of ping 48V 2A charger (61V) and a lenovo 20V 4.5A charger ($9 ebay) in series for 81V+.
I'd been thinking about a couple meanwells, or 4 actually, for home & work, but then I realized that I charge 5s8p @ 10A, so 4hrs for the whole pack, and i rarely use the whole pack. if i charge 20s2p, to charge the same speed, i only need 2.5A @ 80V. i tested it and it seems to work. but i'm rebuilding my pack this weekend, so the full charge will have to wait. And I'll probably do a couple cycles as 5s with the iCharger. But bottom line, I've got a light cheap charging solution to carry aournd! i think i'm going to parallel the AC cords so I don't need two outlets...
View attachment 1
If this works well, I may just buy three more of the lenovo chargers to charge at 4.5A!
so the mess, actually just before cleaning up. i would have stayed up late to solder the power leads but my 250W soldering iron started smoking out it's ass.
i spent a fair amount of time thinking how to crimp three 10AWG wires. I sawed the hex end off coax connectors, but the crimp wasn't great (and the soldering iron died) so that decided it.
i know what you're thinking, i got a million bullets to build harnesses.... but something JohninCR said struck home, something about soldering all the connections on his next build. and the truth is that this pack isn't coming apart, if i can help it. the last one stayed in there a year, and i hope this one does too.
i'll use the bullets for the phase wires, etc, but to parallel the power leads, get this, i'm going to use big ass wirenuts. Feel free to convince me otherwise. You've got until tomorrow noon when I'm going to the hardware store!
View attachment 2
anyway, here's the hermit crab without its shell, fyi. notice the goo marks on the packs. those illustrate how much the packs have swollen...
View attachment 6
side by side to show swelling.
View attachment 5
taping up w/ fiber tape this time!
View attachment 4
hot-glued the JST-XH's. suckers aren't going anywhere...
View attachment 3
more work tomorrow! (and no riding...
Wire nuts will not work well with the very fine stranded wire on the HK packs. The battery wires will twist together without allowing the tapered inside of the wire nut to squeeze the wires together. The wire nuts will take their toll on the fine stranded wires with multiple re-connections. If you tin the ends with solder, may as well just use the existing bullets. Is the primary issue you want to have a parallel connection between each 5s pack instead of a parallel connection between the two 20s packs? If you are going to bulk charging how will you monitor cell voltage? Will you parallel the JST-XH connectors? Do you expect to break up the 20s pack to use the 8p I-charger for balancing from time to time?
Quoting from deep in your thread:
methods wrote:<methods gets a smug look on his face...>
Allow me to take this excellent opportunity to point out once again what I always preach from my well worn soapbox
1) The most common mistake is the leave the balance taps configured in (Series/Parallel) then try to plug the main power lines together in (Parallel/Series) causing vaporization of the main power connectors
(if you are lucky)
The best solution to this is to charge in the exact same configuration that you discharge in.
Set it and forget it.
...
-methods
methods wrote:<methods gets a smug look on his face...>
Allow me to take this excellent opportunity to point out once again what I always preach from my well worn soapbox
1) The most common mistake is the leave the balance taps configured in (Series/Parallel) then try to plug the main power lines together in (Parallel/Series) causing vaporization of the main power connectors
(if you are lucky)
The best solution to this is to charge in the exact same configuration that you discharge in.
Set it and forget it.
...
-methods
GCinDC
100 MW
The wires nuts will never come off... No reconnections necessary. The idea was to cut down the wires, since the packs aren't going to be used for anything else. Shorter wires, soldered/wirenut connections for pairs of paralleled packs. (here's the old pack w/ small wire nuts and 12AWG out to andersons... new will have 10AWG & bullets)
balancing will be done weekly with icharger set up.
monitoring will be via paralled taps hooked up to bm6's.
will have to see about the heat and how the ping performs. i'm not expecting these to last forever, and am concerned about what failure will mean. heat sink upgrades likely. my first ping charger fried when i turned it upside down mid-charge, so i'm a little nervous about touching it...
4x 65W waterproof? chargers could be scattered on side of pack... again just thinking here... perhaps fireproofing too.. hmm
balancing will be done weekly with icharger set up.
monitoring will be via paralled taps hooked up to bm6's.
will have to see about the heat and how the ping performs. i'm not expecting these to last forever, and am concerned about what failure will mean. heat sink upgrades likely. my first ping charger fried when i turned it upside down mid-charge, so i'm a little nervous about touching it...
4x 65W waterproof? chargers could be scattered on side of pack... again just thinking here... perhaps fireproofing too.. hmm
GCinDC
100 MW
You're right, but the good news is that i've already done this (w/ old case)! (here's the lovely pic once again... )dbaker said:
I'm considering doing it this time because:
- the bulk charger will only get the pack up to 81V, ~4.05/cell so even if it does get out of balance, they'd have to be WAY out for one to stray above 4.2V....
- i configured my new case and icharger kit so it's almost impossible to leave parallel balance taps in and plug in discharge leads.
- bm6's will be in 5days/wk
GCinDC
100 MW
ARGH $@#%#$
Maiden voyage w/ new battery, 10 blocks from home, gentle 15A acceleration from stop at the light. stutter, stutter, stop. a quick peak revealed that the pedal ripped the dangling speed switch wire. I parked, fixed the wire but it didn't fix it. I unplugged the speed switch connector. Nothing, but a perfectly lit CA, 81 ready Volts... Perhaps the speed switch wires shorted and fried something inside the controller?
It was mid-commute, and I was on my way to drop off the trailer at school for the afternoon pickup...
I parked the trailer, rode home but there was tremendous resistance to pedaling, stuttering, I'd say. Normally I would have thought the phase wires were out, but wait, I'd soldered them! Hmm. (I was on speed two to go easy on the fresh pack...)
No idea now what is wrong but had to get to work. An hour later I'm a sardine getting mushed around in a crowded subway train...
I'm so TIRED!
So this weekend I committed to switching out the lipos using 4mm bullets.
Successes:
- Wired up 4 pack pairs in parallel with 10awg and 4mm bullets
- Glued the 4 pair bullet connectors into a big plug
- Wired/soldered a Series plug
- Wired a parallel plug
- Balance charged the whole pack as 5s8p
Failures:
- Three lousy bullets before I got the hang of it
- Three soldering iron tips, two new but obviously wrong models for my iron, and no end of frustration working w/ wrong tools.
- No time to replace connectors on controller side, so just using wire ties there for the moment!
- Replaced db25 (that connects to 8 balance leads on pack) - One of my BM6's beeps all the time. I thought some water corroded the associated terminals of the db25. But after cutting out the old and soldering in the new db25, the BM6 still beeped. So there must be a current leak somewhere upstream on the balance wires. I can't explain the level of frustration I have about this right now. But to bulk charge, it will be essential that the g0d d4amn f5cking th1ng doesn't beep while charging...
- Sore throat? As a result of flux on my tongue, from spending two years waiting for the bullet to get hot and having nothing else but my teeth to stretch out the long line of solder that i've been bending and bending by poking at the connection in hopes it was hot enough to melt... I've long used my teeth for stretching solder, but I didn't used to dip it in flux first!
- Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the bike! (and a so sleepy i'm going to pass out emoticon)
Some pictures from the saga:
Thanks to TMaster for video. It was nowhere near as easy as he made it look, but would have been hopeless w/o the technique...
Maiden voyage w/ new battery, 10 blocks from home, gentle 15A acceleration from stop at the light. stutter, stutter, stop. a quick peak revealed that the pedal ripped the dangling speed switch wire. I parked, fixed the wire but it didn't fix it. I unplugged the speed switch connector. Nothing, but a perfectly lit CA, 81 ready Volts... Perhaps the speed switch wires shorted and fried something inside the controller?
It was mid-commute, and I was on my way to drop off the trailer at school for the afternoon pickup...
I parked the trailer, rode home but there was tremendous resistance to pedaling, stuttering, I'd say. Normally I would have thought the phase wires were out, but wait, I'd soldered them! Hmm. (I was on speed two to go easy on the fresh pack...)
No idea now what is wrong but had to get to work. An hour later I'm a sardine getting mushed around in a crowded subway train...
I'm so TIRED!
So this weekend I committed to switching out the lipos using 4mm bullets.
Successes:
- Wired up 4 pack pairs in parallel with 10awg and 4mm bullets
- Glued the 4 pair bullet connectors into a big plug
- Wired/soldered a Series plug
- Wired a parallel plug
- Balance charged the whole pack as 5s8p
Failures:
- Three lousy bullets before I got the hang of it
- Three soldering iron tips, two new but obviously wrong models for my iron, and no end of frustration working w/ wrong tools.
- No time to replace connectors on controller side, so just using wire ties there for the moment!
- Replaced db25 (that connects to 8 balance leads on pack) - One of my BM6's beeps all the time. I thought some water corroded the associated terminals of the db25. But after cutting out the old and soldering in the new db25, the BM6 still beeped. So there must be a current leak somewhere upstream on the balance wires. I can't explain the level of frustration I have about this right now. But to bulk charge, it will be essential that the g0d d4amn f5cking th1ng doesn't beep while charging...
- Sore throat? As a result of flux on my tongue, from spending two years waiting for the bullet to get hot and having nothing else but my teeth to stretch out the long line of solder that i've been bending and bending by poking at the connection in hopes it was hot enough to melt... I've long used my teeth for stretching solder, but I didn't used to dip it in flux first!
- Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the bike!
(and a so sleepy i'm going to pass out emoticon)Some pictures from the saga:
Thanks to TMaster for video. It was nowhere near as easy as he made it look, but would have been hopeless w/o the technique...
grindz145
1 MW
Nice job on the packs.
Did you figure out your sensor problem? (I'm assuming speed sensor wires means Hall Effect?)
Shuddering usually means hall effect. Sucks about the trailer....ugh
Did you figure out your sensor problem? (I'm assuming speed sensor wires means Hall Effect?)
Shuddering usually means hall effect. Sucks about the trailer....ugh
GCinDC
100 MW
I'm dead in the water. Bike is back home in the garage....GCinDC said:No idea now what is wrong but had to get to work. An hour later I'm a sardine getting mushed around in a crowded subway train...
I turned the on switch. Minute surge? Can't tell. Seemed like it?
CA lit. Opened throttle, nothing happened. No Amps displayed, no wheel movement at all.
Phase wires are soldered.
Halls might have gotten pushed about a bit, but I doubt it. I'm used to their antics.
With pack off, there's what feels like 'ribbed' resistance. Like a turning a motor by hand, the magnets wanting to stay in place. No noise or grinding.
What would happen if the speed switch wires were shorted mid-motion (10mph)?
Must be wrong color phase wire <> controller wires? Did your CA lit up and function well?
Check all plugs maybe you did misplace or wrong connectors hook up? You might want take it apart and each inspect make sure it secured both connectors hook up. I am sure it must be loose or misplaced wrong hook up wire to wire?
Good luck troubleshoot diagnostic, I assume you have backup transportant to work by your car or ride subway and maybe carpool one of your employee nearby your home?
Check all plugs maybe you did misplace or wrong connectors hook up? You might want take it apart and each inspect make sure it secured both connectors hook up. I am sure it must be loose or misplaced wrong hook up wire to wire?
Good luck troubleshoot diagnostic, I assume you have backup transportant to work by your car or ride subway and maybe carpool one of your employee nearby your home?
GCinDC
100 MW
Hehe. The phase wires have been soldered for a week or so. The motor & controller can't be disconnected, except by halls, and I didn't touch anything attached to the controller/bike except the power leads...chroot said:
Perhaps the solder joint melted, when I took off at 15AMPS! A trail of molten solder and plastic follows me everywhere...
I don't know chroot, I don't know... If the wiring is all good, I'm thinking it's got to be inside the controller.
I've been thinking about getting in there one of these days. My speedo has been out for a couple weeks. Did I mention it? CA works fine, just 0.00 MPH readout all the time... I just wonder if somehow the speed wire fell off inside. If not, I gotta ring up Justin again begging and pleading for a freshie.
andreym
100 W
GCinDC said:
try to disconnect CA from the controller and than try throttle
i had similar issue first time i built the bike. there should be some wrong connection somewhere...
and it looks like you have throttle regen enabled if it does not allow you to spin the wheel freely
GCinDC
100 MW
Hey Andrey, regen is enabled, but the system was OFF and I couldn't pedal it! So regen wasn't active, unless I'm just powering a generator now...andreym said:
Re the throttle, Lyen had some suggestions, which I'll pass along, though I've not yet identified my problem:
I have had a year of trouble my first CA but the replacement fixed it! Until recently...
Lyen replied to my email SOS, and confirmed my suspician about controller damage due to the speed wire short w/ instructions to test the controller w/ another motor, and motor w/ another controller...
GCinDC, You plug your balance connectors in first to charger, then the main power right? Then when your done charging you unplug the main power first then the balance connector?
Sorry to hear your bike is down I had some controller failure with the same controller as you a few months ago. I tryed figuring it out for a few weeks, finally I realised that 3 fets had blown after all my testing. I accidently ended up shorting the board with my probes lol........ So I ended up replacing the whole board. But Im back in business. I have two controllers now just incase it happens again.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21821
Sorry to hear your bike is down
I had some controller failure with the same controller as you a few months ago. I tryed figuring it out for a few weeks, finally I realised that 3 fets had blown after all my testing. I accidently ended up shorting the board with my probes lol........ So I ended up replacing the whole board. But Im back in business. I have two controllers now just incase it happens again.http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21821
GCinDC
100 MW
Really?! What blew them besides your probes? I was wishing I got the high voltage one, maybe I can return and pay for upgrade!
I plug in charger power leads then balance. Is this wrong?
My new soldering iron arrived. Sponge and tin! No licking either...
I plug in charger power leads then balance. Is this wrong?
My new soldering iron arrived. Sponge and tin! No licking either...
hydro-one
10 kW
Eh brother, sorry to hear of your controller misfortunes. I suspect one of two things., blown fet(s) seem likely with the cogging that your describing. I would also try and re flash the controller. I went though a thing with mine where the speed switch connector plugged in to its connector wrong and bent two of the pins together... had to reflash, mabye a trouble code or something has been triggered in the brain.
ps one of my halls sense wires pulled out during riding, blew a single 4110 fet. had it fixed same day!!
regards,
mike
ps one of my halls sense wires pulled out during riding, blew a single 4110 fet. had it fixed same day!!
regards,
mike
grindz145
1 MW
I'm still confused about what you mean by speed wire? phase wire that feeds into the CA?
if that's the case, then the FETs for that phase would be shorted and they would probably be dead..
Granted at this point you probably have a good set of spares. If not I have a bunch of extra4110s if you need em.
if that's the case, then the FETs for that phase would be shorted and they would probably be dead..
Granted at this point you probably have a good set of spares. If not I have a bunch of extra4110s if you need em.
Hyena
10 GW
I hate to say it but I'm going to call blown fets again - that's a classic symptom.GCinDC said:
Unsoldering / cutting your phase wires will almost certainly fix the cogging, thus proving it is the controller and saves you having to try another motor on that controller. I guess you'll have to cut them all anyway if you're going to remove the controller but if you fluke the right phase you might only have to cut 1 wire (2 at the most) to eliminate the cogging if it's the controller.
As for what caused it to blow, the speed wire getting caught is likely to have done something but not necessarily. Every controller I've blown (not really something that's impressive to brag about :lol: ) has been for no apparent reason and happened with the smallest amount of throttle input. On 2 occasions I've powered up the bike about to set off, twisted the throttle and barely made it to the end of the garage before the controller went dead.
Considering you rely so heavily on this bike for commuting and getting your kids etc I'd recommend investing in a spare controller. Get a little cheap sensorless 4310 6 or 9 fet controller from Lyen, put 4mm bullets on your phase wires, matching connectors for the controllers power and throttle and you've got a small, light backup solution that you could carry with you at all times. It could be easily swapped over on the road side in 2 minutes and have you back in business (albeit only at ~30 amps but it beats pushing or trying to pedal against shorted phases!)
GCinDC
100 MW
Controller Pron! Opened it up <gags from the smell> and immediately noticed this:
Note the smoke dust encrusting the red & black leads to the left.
But hold on Betsy. On the other side of the board we have some dark spooge. I've not gotten the results back from the chem lab, but I gotta wonder if this was WATER... in which case I deserve, well, how about several days off from work?
View attachment 4
Best view I could get of the fets. All legs seemed to be in place, and no apparent burn marks, holes...
View from heaven, nothing special that I see.
I take that back about the fets. The last bugger on the left looks like he's been smoking in the bathroom. But maybe that was the cap splat.
South of the equator, note the water? mark bottom right...
Good news is that I have a spare controller. an 846mcu 4XXX? (pre-4110) It's got MUCH FATTER caps, I might add. Doesn't this one seem small, by the way??
And fyi, no issue cutting the phase wires. I'm going to bullets all around, just didn't have time last night to replace them (in the cold garage at 3AM...) Maybe tonight! After three hours sleep! Yeah!
Thanks for all your help and feedback. I love this forum!
Note the smoke dust encrusting the red & black leads to the left.
But hold on Betsy. On the other side of the board we have some dark spooge. I've not gotten the results back from the chem lab, but I gotta wonder if this was WATER... in which case I deserve, well, how about several days off from work?
View attachment 4
Best view I could get of the fets. All legs seemed to be in place, and no apparent burn marks, holes...
View from heaven, nothing special that I see.
I take that back about the fets. The last bugger on the left looks like he's been smoking in the bathroom. But maybe that was the cap splat.
South of the equator, note the water? mark bottom right...
Good news is that I have a spare controller. an 846mcu 4XXX? (pre-4110) It's got MUCH FATTER caps, I might add. Doesn't this one seem small, by the way??
And fyi, no issue cutting the phase wires. I'm going to bullets all around, just didn't have time last night to replace them (in the cold garage at 3AM...) Maybe tonight! After three hours sleep! Yeah!
Thanks for all your help and feedback. I love this forum!
GCinDC
100 MW
Excellent idea! I love it! I'm writing to Santa now for the stocking stuffer...Hyena said:
GCinDC
100 MW
Looks like just that big 100V cap and some of the fets are blown. Take out the last 6 on the bad side, and do the check from the link on the thread that I posted eariler today. A guy posted how to test the fets, but you have to take them out. That should put you back in business if none of the Transistors and other tiny components are still good. Jump any traces that are burned away if there is any. 
It does look like water was the culprit, or toomany amps. How many amps are you running now?
It does look like water was the culprit, or toomany amps. How many amps are you running now?
GCinDC
100 MW
yep, shorted fets. water droplets still in the case. on rain days, i used to wrap the controller once in tape, to cover the ends, but this one looked so nicely sealed that i only did the top. and i get a nasty spray in the rear... dang. that was quick!
thanks for that link, Tman. those are good tests. got 0 ohms when touching black and yellow. i don't have a fet repair in me for tonight. i spent two days searching for the solder braid awhile back and came up empty handed, so it's not happening tonight.
back to nicobie's old controller. that sucker runs HOT. and nevermind about using the CA with it...
oh well, better get back to soldering...
ps. chroot, you're from russia? maybe your stockings are bigger than ours.... i don't think 18fets will fit in our xmas stockings...
thanks for that link, Tman. those are good tests. got 0 ohms when touching black and yellow. i don't have a fet repair in me for tonight. i spent two days searching for the solder braid awhile back and came up empty handed, so it's not happening tonight.
back to nicobie's old controller. that sucker runs HOT. and nevermind about using the CA with it...
oh well, better get back to soldering...
ps. chroot, you're from russia? maybe your stockings are bigger than ours.... i don't think 18fets will fit in our xmas stockings...
