Has anyone taken a TongSheng and hooked up an aftermarket controller to it?

[HazzaHodgson]

3.5kw is pretty crazy, you'd think it'd go a lot faster with such power. I imagine you're saturating it.
How long will it take that kind of abuse?

It's a very long tuning rabbit hole lol. It will keep going but recording with 1 hand in the dark kinds sketchy. Only went to 9th gear and I have 11. In also sitting far in field weakening there lol . Yeah it's saturating. I tried making a vesc test that measures saturation at different current levels but it requires locking the motor and applying q axis current, it's kinda hard to measure accurately with all the mechanical backlash. My vesc seems to have days where it's performing absolutely insane then others not as much, my config drifts a lot with all the firmware changes I'm doing lol. I'm currently making a Dyno test that measures torque at different points+ efficiency that can be calculated using motor measurements Vs acceleration. So har it's handled it like a champ. Nylon gear is pretty much fine. I think heat is what damages that (obviously going too high watts does too but heat kills it at lower power) I installed a heat sensor and right inside the coils and highest I've seen is 78 degrees. I can maintain 30-35 mph under 50 degrees, it's when I'm using fw and going 40ish it heats up. And as for the sprag clutch I've figured it out. When using current control motor tries to spin to max duty , so when chains slack and motor spins hard then chain tensions, the clutch slips. So I use duty command for throttle and current for torque sensor. I have never skipped in the sprag once with duty control (I use a custom ramp code for throttle cos normal vesc duty command is absolute instantaneous and is just a backlash simulator )

 

[HazzaHodgson]

Peak I've had is 4000. Bring conservative with 60 phase amps since it's a high gear reduction ratio so works out well

 

[neptronix]

That's pretty impressive!
Yeah, low phase amp to battery amp ratio is a good trick to prevent overheating and clutch damage.
And you are generally using it in the high RPM range, so it works.

How are you getting PAS to work on a VESC? this seems rare to find documentation on online.

 

[n00b]

Peak I've had is 4000. Bring conservative with 60 phase amps since it's a high gear reduction ratio so works out well

What motor is that?
I'm gonna say the Tongsheng TSDZ8 build on a Fuji Ace is my favorite.
It's the lightest, it was a road bike, 52V 40A battery with a 26-32A controller.
58:51 is the starting gear, and it goes down to 13, I think.
It's smooth and feels like it can handle it.
Does not spin as fast as BBS03 with same everything except motor, but it goes, and feels good!
My other bikes are 72V BBS03 builds with small front sprockets.
You have to really crank them to get going, and the little front sprockets can torque the back ones.
I'm thinking of dialing the battery voltage back and using bigger sprockets on those, too.
One might be for dirt, so..that one will be smaller, but I'll use up to whatever works.
BBS03 is about 50% bigger and more mass than a TSDZ08, and definitely spins faster per volt.

 

[HazzaHodgson]

That's pretty impressive!
Yeah, low phase amp to battery amp ratio is a good trick to prevent overheating and clutch damage.
And you are generally using it in the high RPM range, so it works.

How are you getting PAS to work on a VESC? this seems rare to find documentation on online.

Through a lot of testing, nodding the vesc source and trial and error it's a quad Pas sensor, so 2 channels. I use 1 for the pulses and the other for direction to avoid back pedalling tripping Pas. At first I had Pas only, no torque sensor. Was hard to make it feel right but it was ok ISH, a lot of ghost pedalling lol. Then I tried to make a custom PCB for the torque sensor and gave up on the first step of designing the circuit. So I just made a custom stripped down version of OSF, it reads the torque sensor data and sends that through UART to my vesc. It extremely helps billions having my esp display as the debugging screen. Couldn't if done it without it. If you're any good with circuits I'll point you in the right direction(I can't remember much anymore it's been set and forget since I got the original controller reading it lol). But basically, the torque sensor circuit basically excites the coil and some frequency in the 10s of thousands of Hz and then reads it back. If you find a post here about someone already making the circuit for the tsdz2, it's a full controller tho and I tried and failed to extract only the torque sensing part

 

[HazzaHodgson]

 

[HazzaHodgson]

What motor is that?
I'm gonna say the Tongsheng TSDZ8 build on a Fuji Ace is my favorite.
It's the lightest, it was a road bike, 52V 40A battery with a 26-32A controller.
58:51 is the starting gear, and it goes down to 13, I think.
It's smooth and feels like it can handle it.
Does not spin as fast as BBS03 with same everything except motor, but it goes, and feels good!
My other bikes are 72V BBS03 builds with small front sprockets.
You have to really crank them to get going, and the little front sprockets can torque the back ones.
I'm thinking of dialing the battery voltage back and using bigger sprockets on those, too.
One might be for dirt, so..that one will be smaller, but I'll use up to whatever works.
BBS03 is about 50% bigger and more mass than a TSDZ08, and definitely spins faster per volt.

It's the tsdz8 it's a 37 or 38 (I see conflicting info) gear reduction do it spins lower per volt yeah but the secret is that it's an ipm motor with high saliency, so with field weakening it spins faster + make use of reluctance torque rather than fw just causing heat.

Ignore the end I accidently caught a trainer in the back wheel

 

[HazzaHodgson]

Finally got my saturation compensation dialed in and increased phase amps a lil cos why not (I ran 77 on 52v just fine) AVG shows pretty low here cos I been idle a lot

 

[n00b]

Finally got my saturation compensation dialed in and increased phase amps a lil cos why not (I ran 77 on 52v just fine) AVG shows pretty low here cos I been idle a lot View attachment 390890

Ok, so you're using 72V, right? I'm just using the phases. The halls could be hooked up, but why?
It's 10 more points for things to go wrong. Have yet to get a max speed on it cuz the satellite thing wasn't working good that day, I'll give it a shot next time it's fully charged.
Yeah, yeah, halls and phase angles and field weakening and all that. Meh. Twist throttle, apply powah!
I'm using 52v battery, (58.8v) and it's just about enough.
Is there any "spin out" with the TSDZ8 like there is with BBS03?
If you don't seriously wind up a BBS03, it doesn't go with 72v.
Seriously, I got the smallest front chainring possible (40T) and almost the biggest back sprocket possible (42?-51?) just to have
somewhat of a non-violent ride with BBS03. U get 2 lowest gears on the sidewalk.
I've been thinking that Tongsheng might do better with that.
That'd take some swapping of motors and batteries if so.
I gotta 58-51 starting gear on the TSDZ8 with a 52v battery, and it's my favorite.
Quiet, smooth.
Not sure how fast it goes, but fast enough for a bicycle. Especially with caliper brakes.
I came up on some old dude on a pedelec not long ago like he was standing still.

 

[n00b]

It's the tsdz8 it's a 37 or 38 (I see conflicting info) gear reduction do it spins lower per volt yeah but the secret is that it's an ipm motor with high saliency, so with field weakening it spins faster + make use of reluctance torque rather than fw just causing heat.

Ignore the end I accidently caught a trainer in the back wheel

That's without you on it. What does it do with you on it, and will it handle the heat?
Also: Do you have some kind of batteries in series or something?

 

[HazzaHodgson]

I've hit 45 before but I run kinda soft tyres
Handles the heat pretty well if you don't lug it in the highest gear or just sit in top end of field weakening in a low gear. I had a bug in firmware which was commanding too much id current using mtpa , then my motor coils hit 75° max. Since it's been fixed I will cruise at decent speed and AVG around 50-55 with 60 ISH max
And I have a 72v 24a battery with 80amp BMS. 2 power outputs to a 72v-12 step down converter and one to vesc. And off the Stepdown I have 40w headlights and a 100w sound system lol then another step down to 5v for display and a step up to power original controller to read torque sensor

 

[HazzaHodgson]

Ok, so you're using 72V, right? I'm just using the phases. The halls could be hooked up, but why?
It's 10 more points for things to go wrong. Have yet to get a max speed on it cuz the satellite thing wasn't working good that day, I'll give it a shot next time it's fully charged.
Yeah, yeah, halls and phase angles and field weakening and all that. Meh. Twist throttle, apply powah!
I'm using 52v battery, (58.8v) and it's just about enough.
Is there any "spin out" with the TSDZ8 like there is with BBS03?
If you don't seriously wind up a BBS03, it doesn't go with 72v.
Seriously, I got the smallest front chainring possible (40T) and almost the biggest back sprocket possible (42?-51?) just to have
somewhat of a non-violent ride with BBS03. U get 2 lowest gears on the sidewalk.
I've been thinking that Tongsheng might do better with that.
That'd take some swapping of motors and batteries if so.
I gotta 58-51 starting gear on the TSDZ8 with a 52v battery, and it's my favorite.
Quiet, smooth.
Not sure how fast it goes, but fast enough for a bicycle. Especially with caliper brakes.
I came up on some old dude on a pedelec not long ago like he was standing still.

Yeah 72v. My halls broke so I just use hfi now anyways. Works perfectly and wdym with Spinout? I know the sprag clutch skips if you're not careful. I kinda broke mine the other night doing some high gear lugging testing lol but caught it in time. Put all the springs back in, cleaned old grease out and replaced with light amount of mobil 28 and clips the ring seal back on. Works perfect again. I got an old broke one I was thinking of JB welding stuck , means I'd have to pedal through motor but it's one weak point /backlash engage area gone but that'll mean nylon gear will take the hit if it goes to shit. But my nylons held up way past expectations for me. I thought that was broke a while ago but it was the sprag. So I replaced it when it was brand new basically and my current used one looks the same condition as the original