Have your gas savings outweighed ebike cost?

cbr shadow

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Daly City, CA -USA
I have a Scion XB right now that gets ~30mpg around town. I'm spending ~$2000 on my ebike ($200 bike, Kit from Cellman, shipping from China, etc..). So at $4.25/gallon of gas it'd be ~14k miles before I make up for the price of the bike. That's assuming all of the miles were miles that I would have driven anyway.
So it's hard (in my case anyway?) to look at getting an ebike as a "money saver". There are other things like fun, being green, having something different, and the learning experience that make it worth it for me.
Obviously most people here have justified having an ebike in some way.. Does it save you money? What's your reason?
 
My daily driver if a 93 ford bronco, it averages 11 mpg. Ill drive roughly 400 miles in a month that's roughly 1600 dollars. most of that is a 20 mile round trip commute to the campus and back. Ill also pay 120 dollars a month to cover insurance and registration. That's more than enough to cover the cost of my Ebikes even if I only ride three months out of the year. Plus, health benefits from being outdoors, and the time benefit of always getting executive parking makes it more than worth it.
 
Mine hasn't saved me money, but it's been fun as hell.

My first build was $700, and had a 40 mile range at 18mph. If i didn't work from home, i'd be raking in the savings. But it would take me a while to tally up any savings over my car.. for sure!
 
Mi bike is more bike and less "E". So I pedal a lot. I've spent more than I've saved in the last year (good winter riding gear, good lights, parts upgrades...). I've also had to buy all new pants as I dropped 10 lbs and a whole pants size.

But it's been fun! And all that stuff I bought this year will still be there, the gas would have been consumed. Going forward, it's all profit!
 
What you have to do is figure out the cost per mile of the car. If you like, don't include fixed costs you will still have like insurance and registration. Gas is a very small percentage of what it costs to drive. Car payments are included because whether you use up that mile of the car's lifespan this year or next, you will pay for it.

Once you realize that your car costs at least 50 cents a mile and the ebike should cost no more than 15 cents a mile, you can calculate a payback time that is much less than 14000 miles. Bear in mind also, that every mile you don't drive defers maintenance costs one day further into the future. 2000 miles on the ebike pays you about $700 in savings by my calculations. But if your cost per mile is more than 50 cents, then it's even more.

Other benefits, like improved health from just faux pedaling are harder to calculate a value for.

Then you can go spend 4 times as much on ebikes that are strictly for fun. But that's not the transportation budget, it's the entertainment budget. :mrgreen:
 
This is one of the main reasons why ebikes haven't caught on in the US. People don't understand how much their cars cost.

Look at edmunds "True Cost To Own" of a Scion
http://www.edmunds.com/scion/xb/2012/tco.html?style=101394234 They put the ownership cost of new Scion xB at $32K over five years, which is about 43cents/mile. And edmunds isn't some hippy tree-hugger website that hates cars. By using an ebike you are reducing the "Fuel, Maintance and Depreciation" These are huge costs related to car ownership.

You just have to put 4651 miles on the ebike for your capital costs per mile to equal your expenses per mile on your car. And even this analysis is very unfair to the ebike. You should really be comparing expenses per mile to each other. Which is $0.43/mile for your car and is typically $0.15/mile for the bike. So if you are using the ebike to do what you would have done in a car it is very hard to claim that you are not saving money.

Also - another financial benefit is a reduction in time and cost volatility. My commute to work takes 40-50mins maybe 55min if I get a flat. My drive takes 30min to 1.5hr. The typical worst random cost I could incur on my ebike is that the battery fails and I'm out $450. On my car it could be up to $5K. Also, with the ebike you have a extra vehicle. If your car breaks down, or someone has borrow it, you have a backup vehicle.

Note that I've kept very good records of my ebike expenses over the last 7000 miles. I have come up with a cost of $0.17 per mile for my winter bike (This includes studded tires, 1 wheel rebuild, snowmobile goggles, gloves and winter bike boots) and $0.09 per mile for my non-winter bike.
 
In 2011, I calculated that the 2004 Toyota Sienna I had was costing $375 per month in gas, insurance, licensing, maintenance. I sold it and bought an E-scooter for $2800 including taxes and a second battery for longer range. I bought it in May and rode that exclusively to go to work and run errands. By December, it paid for itself and I'm still riding it exclusively. There's no way that this scooter costs $375 a month to run but with the savings I did buy $1000 worth of stuff to make it better, Lithium battery, Lyen controller, CA. Despite those goodies I bought, I'm still under. And to think that the minivan was paid for so there was no monthly payment and still cost $375/month to run. In my case, I did see big savings and found a new fun way to spend some of those savings.
 
montyp said:
This is one of the main reasons why ebikes haven't caught on in the US. People don't understand how much their cars cost.
I disagree. The three main reasons why bicycles (electrified or not) are not popular in the US are:
1) The road infrastructure is never designed for slow moving vehicles.
2) The bourgeois mentality that bicycles as a viable mode of transportation is demeaning. Bicycles are for people that are too poor to afford a car.
3) Urban sprawl requires longer travel distance which make bicycles less practical.
 
This has been a quandary for motorcycle riders since I can remember. Maybe you can justify some cost offset from fuel savings but tires, maintenance and batteries always seem to eat into any genuine savings. Face it, it's fun and convenient.

That's the main thing for me with the bonus of whatever fuel you save is money that's not being sent to oil rich countries.
 
I was born to reply to this.

Cost per mile for a vehicle is a highly variable number. If you do your own basic maintenance, own inexpensive cars, drive em' into the ground, and have normal mileage, your costs could be as low as 30 cents a mile. On the other hand, the IRS and most business allow around 50 cents a mile for use of a private vehicle. If you drive a Ferrari, use gold plated oil filters, and get a new car every couple of months, your cost per mile will top $1.00 a mile. There are also calculators that factor in the "cost" of environmental and health costs (although the user does not incur this cost) which will give you a figure over $1.00 a mile.

As an engineer, I calculate the pay-back on every freaking thing. Needless to say, it drives my wife nuts. I am mentally using the figure of 50 cents per mile, even though it is probably closer to the 30 cents per mile figure. I use my actual bike odometer reading to calculate the savings, since I very seldom bike solely for pleasure. I spent $2000 to electrify my Xtracycle with a Stokemonkey set up. I spend about 3 cents a day on electricity (I have one of the devices you plug things into and it monitors your electricity use, so I know this number pretty accurately). You can pretty much ignore that cost as trivial. The payback period was therefore around 4000 miles, which I hit in the late fall. Now that also ignores bike maintenance and parts, which haven't been much so it is probably not a bad first guess.

In conclusion, even a relatively expensive conversion has been paid back and it took just under two years. I am a pretty serious rider and commute on the ebike most days. My commute is around 14 miles, round trip.

So yes, ebiking pays off, but you have to be pretty dedicated to doing it instead of driving. That means I carry every kind of weather protection gear and have often ridden in the rain, very cold, etc.

As to why more people don't do it, I have studied that quite a lot actually. The reasons are not surprising. First of all, most people feel the weather protection and safety of a car (whether perceived or real is another matter) outweigh the cost benefits by a huge margin. My mantra is that the only solution I can see to petroleum addiction for transportation is wicked high gas prices. The news channels are getting their panties in a twist over the prospect of shockingly high gas prices at "over $4 a gallon (gasp)". I think gas prices are going to have to get north of $5.00 a gallon before people even start to think about getting a smaller car, much less an ebike.

My wife is a perfect case in point. We go to the exact same place every day to work. I ebike and she drives (usually at different times though so we can't carpool easily). Her reasons are simple: she doesn't like riding a bike in traffic, doesn't want to get wet in the rain, and doesn't want to mess her hair up with a helmet. And she is no prima dona, a pretty typical US citizen I think.

My view, worth about what you paid...
 
pdf said:
I was born to reply to this.

Cost per mile for a vehicle is a highly variable number. If you do your own basic maintenance, own inexpensive cars, drive em' into the ground, and have normal mileage, your costs could be as low as 30 cents a mile. On the other hand, the IRS and most business allow around 50 cents a mile for use of a private vehicle. If you drive a Ferrari, use gold plated oil filters, and get a new car every couple of months, your cost per mile will top $1.00 a mile. There are also calculators that factor in the "cost" of environmental and health costs (although the user does not incur this cost) which will give you a figure over $1.00 a mile.

As an engineer, I calculate the pay-back on every freaking thing. Needless to say, it drives my wife nuts. I am mentally using the figure of 50 cents per mile, even though it is probably closer to the 30 cents per mile figure. I use my actual bike odometer reading to calculate the savings, since I very seldom bike solely for pleasure. I spent $2000 to electrify my Xtracycle with a Stokemonkey set up. I spend about 3 cents a day on electricity (I have one of the devices you plug things into and it monitors your electricity use, so I know this number pretty accurately). You can pretty much ignore that cost as trivial. The payback period was therefore around 4000 miles, which I hit in the late fall. Now that also ignores bike maintenance and parts, which haven't been much so it is probably not a bad first guess.

In conclusion, even a relatively expensive conversion has been paid back and it took just under two years. I am a pretty serious rider and commute on the ebike most days. My commute is around 14 miles, round trip.

So yes, ebiking pays off, but you have to be pretty dedicated to doing it instead of driving. That means I carry every kind of weather protection gear and have often ridden in the rain, very cold, etc.

As to why more people don't do it, I have studied that quite a lot actually. The reasons are not surprising. First of all, most people feel the weather protection and safety of a car (whether perceived or real is another matter) outweigh the cost benefits by a huge margin. My mantra is that the only solution I can see to petroleum addiction for transportation is wicked high gas prices. The news channels are getting their panties in a twist over the prospect of shockingly high gas prices at "over $4 a gallon (gasp)". I think gas prices are going to have to get north of $5.00 a gallon before people even start to think about getting a smaller car, much less an ebike.

My wife is a perfect case in point. We go to the exact same place every day to work. I ebike and she drives (usually at different times though so we can't carpool easily). Her reasons are simple: she doesn't like riding a bike in traffic, doesn't want to get wet in the rain, and doesn't want to mess her hair up with a helmet. And she is no prima dona, a pretty typical US citizen I think.

My view, worth about what you paid...

So do you have another car that you "could" drive if you need to? I assume your $0.50 / mile calculation factors in the cost of insurance, car payment, etc and you're not paying 50 cents/mile in gas, right? So whether you drive or not you're still paying those fixed costs. How much of that is gas? I assume this brings your 4000 miles way up. Same goes for any parts/tires/maintenance on the bike in those 4000+ miles.
It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this though so I'm interested.
 
Since 2009, I’ve probably spent enough to purchase two new motorcycles or one fine car. However I wouldn’t trade that rebel freedom for one fluid ounce of petrol! And I’m not finished with my exploration. One day I’ll need to profit from all of this experimentation, sort of how my youthful computer-building hobby turned pro; at some point I’ll have to get serious and break even. :roll:

Complete fun though. KF 8)
 
cbr shadow said:
I have a Scion XB right now that gets ~30mpg around town. I'm spending ~$2000 on my ebike ($200 bike, Kit from Cellman, shipping from China, etc..). So at $4.25/gallon of gas it'd be ~14k miles before I make up for the price of the bike. That's assuming all of the miles were miles that I would have driven anyway.
So it's hard (in my case anyway?) to look at getting an ebike as a "money saver". There are other things like fun, being green, having something different, and the learning experience that make it worth it for me.
Obviously most people here have justified having an ebike in some way.. Does it save you money? What's your reason?

Get rid of your car. You now save x amount of $ in insurance and oil changes etc. Also you can buy 10ebikes with the money from the car.
 
cbr shadow said:
So do you have another car that you "could" drive if you need to? I assume your $0.50 / mile calculation factors in the cost of insurance, car payment, etc and you're not paying 50 cents/mile in gas, right? So whether you drive or not you're still paying those fixed costs. How much of that is gas? I assume this brings your 4000 miles way up. Same goes for any parts/tires/maintenance on the bike in those 4000+ miles.
It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this though so I'm interested.

Great points. We own two cars. You are correct that insurance is a fixed cost. The actual annual costs were roughly: maintenance/depreciation: $1,100; insurance: $400; fuel: $1,542, registration: $65.00. I would dearly love to get rid of one car, but because of my work, I couldn't do so easily. Most of the cost on this vehicle is mileage based so I am willing to pay the opportunity cost of having it and not driving it much. Also, I have a kid who is coming up on driving age. I am trying to pre-sell her on the idea of ebikes but so far, she takes after her mom on that score. She will probably need use of a car occasionally when the other is out. Perhaps adding an ebike to the mix it will keep us from doing the American thing and buying a car for her. That is no small thing. Many of our friends have already bought or are planning to buy cars for their kids and they aren't even driving age yet.

Over the life of the car, we have put an average of right at 12,000 miles/yr on it. So my cost per mile, subject to the above, is around 26 cents. If I paid to have the car worked on, it would be higher. The costs above assume the vehicle is completely depreciated (and believe me, it is. It is 16 years old and was only $18k new) and actual maintenance costs, averaged over the life of the vehicle.

This started as a personal experiment. Certainly the most interesting thing I have found is that for me (an approximately average person, car-wise), I have to be pretty dedicated to e-biking to make it break even. There are little ways that e-biking can cost you more money also. For example, there is a gourmet market right on the bike trail while the regular one is an extra 15 minutes. If I just need a couple of items on the way home, I'll go to the nearest store, which costs more. Also, I might get a smaller package of paper towels because I have to carry them on the bike. That is usually at a higher per unit cost. You need rain pants and a rain shell that you might not have otherwise or you will not ride if it looks like it will rain. That drives your cost savings per mile down.
 
In case you wanted a comparison, I made this spreadsheet the other day:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjVSmy4IFtN5dC1YbmhuQ2hSWWVRQ2lRcjBVWnlxeEE


If you bought an ebike to pay for itself, then you better ride it for a while, or build a very lightweight setup. My Trek will pay for itself in about 1200 miles vs pickup truck driving.

My lightweight ebike is about half the cost of my fast ebike.
My fast ebike is about half the cost of my street motorcycle to drive.
My Street motorcycle is about half the cost of my truck to drive.

And all of this is not taking insurance into account. If you take your car off the road in the summer as I do (and you should), you basically pay for it in a single summer regardless.
 
I save almost 10 grand a year because 14 months ago i got popped with DUI and dangerous-no one hurt and no damage.

insurance is a rip off....along with the gas prices!

don't miss driving the jag at all.

looking into making my sail have an auxiliary electric too.

its a great new life ,living electric.
 
One of the things that make costs vary. Till it's motor died for good recently, I still had a one ton pickup. It's never ever been less than a buck a mile to drive. Gas is a big deal for it, but even so repairs and parts were even more. $250 for one tire, that sort of thing.
 
My initial costs to get into this hobby were pretty hefty so I don't want to do a cost analysis (it might bring me down on this beautiful spring day in Houston). It really doesn't matter because I'm addicted now, and costs don't matter to an addict.
 
Real close to paying their way, but for sure it's going to more than pay off in next year or two if these bikes hold together and I expect no problems. I had, gave it to my brother, an old 92 Accord 25 mpg and 6K miles a year or so till the e-bikes came in then mileage went to 1200 miles driven in 2010-2011 to zero in 2011-2012 last year as I gave the car away. I averaged better than 3K on the bike the first year or so and likely more this year. I have $4K into the two bikes$2.5k into the car plus $800 or so for gas before the e-bike. another $300 for tires and maintenance, $360 for insurance which I still pay so isn't counted. So as you can see I am still behind but not by much. But the truth is I just spent another 2k on the e-bike addiction so another 1.5 years will be needed on the bikes to break even with what I used to spend on the car. Still it will happen and had I not the serious upgrade addiction my first bike would have paid for itself three times over. Then again I expect to have my MG on the road again this summer so everything is fluid as to the bike VS car thing once again. Not hard to figure out which is less expensive in the long run though, even with the addiction I will break even soon.

Car cost + upgrades $2500
car gas two years $1600
Car maintenance $300

Ebike one $1600
Ebike two $2700
ebike extra batts tires ect $600
 
Still amazed that some of you drive 11mpg cars, I have a 2,000cc Diesel estate that does nearly 60mpg and pulls like a train...well not mine but the other half's.
 
To me it's not about trying to equalize only my gas cost, but to reduce mileage, oil changes, tire changes, brakes, UV damage, road debris chips, and just general wear and tear all over my truck. Lower miles keeps the car/truck worth much more when it's time to sell, which no one mentioned. No matter how one travels, it's going to cost $$, but I am more interested in preserving my truck, and reducing my carbon footprint, when possible. Obviously I'm not going to take ebike to pick up a load of landscaping rocks for the house, just as I'm not going to take the truck to a nearby job where only my mind is required. It's all relative.
 
My gas savings on my ICE assisted bike have not outweighed the cost of the kit. However, the little ICE requires more maintenance due to vibration and other things. I do however, take great satisfaction in knowing that I can commute to work without getting in my car (weather permitting).
 
I bought my scooter originally to save money.

I often commute to my workshop with nothing in my van.

It usually costs me £0.6 a mile to run the van including wear and tear. I have now done about 6000 miles on the scooter which I would have done in my van. so that's £3600 saved.

The scooter cost around £600 and I have spent around £900 on lifepo4 upgrade. add another £300 for insurance ,elcectricity and tires, so thats £1800 total

So I could say I am £1800 better off :)

I do ride in all weather, and I get a bit more weather protection than on a standard ebike.
 
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