GGoodrum
1 MW
I've got Miles, the madCADer ( 
), to do a drawing. I'll post it in a few... :wink:
), to do a drawing. I'll post it in a few... :wink:
High power RC motor and drive unit production
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Gary,
I think both of us are suggesting different solutions to achieve the same goal. An elegant, affordable, relatively universal down-tube mount for Matt's drive.
I strongly agree that this type of mount needs to center the drive properly. I also think that with drives for this location should be a little longer (extra length is normally available on a down-tube) or at least this should be an option. This will allow a little more reduction which will help people avoid the complexity and expense of dual-stage drive with better wrap on the small pulley.
Your suggestion in combination with Matt's existing drive is a very elegant solution. We both believe that down-tube mounting BB driven will be the most popular configuration. A major feature of the existing design is to be universal. If these are going to be popular I think it is worth brainstorming designs that are optimized for that location. I think a major consideration should be a solution that requires less of Matt's time on each drive.
I suggested an alternative drive design for down-tube mounts because I am starting to think the existing drive might be much more complex than is required for down-tube mounting. My intention was a simpler overall solution. I think using flat-plates, U-bolt mounts, and a slotted motor mount instead of a slotted motor, that each unit including mounts, will require less custom work than the existing drives without mounts. I agree that custom clamps are more elegant (not a ton ) than U-bolts.
Bottom Line, I love your clamp idea (it's almost as good as my own idea ) if:
1. If Matt wants to produce them (one or two additional relatively complex parts).
2. If he wants to produce mounts that accommodate different tubing sizes and shapes
3. If the resulting cost is not prohibitive.
Another option is to combine our ideas, a custom clamp combined with a simpler flat-plate drive.
I don't like the idea of a setscrew. I'm not confident that a 3-4" long clamp is sufficient (maybe a thin piece of rubber between the clamp and the frame would help?). If it is sufficient its more elegant than an additional bracket or plate.
A more complex solution would be to extend the clamp or plate all the way to the bottom bracket, at which point it could clamp onto or fit snugly around the down-tube. This would be stronger than relying on the clamp and more elegant than an additional plate or bracket but require more customized fitting than either.
In any event other than doing our best to provide constructive feedback we don't need to be concerned. If Matt decides to produce down-tube mount drives he'll probably come up with a solution that is better than either of our ideas
I think both of us are suggesting different solutions to achieve the same goal. An elegant, affordable, relatively universal down-tube mount for Matt's drive.
I strongly agree that this type of mount needs to center the drive properly. I also think that with drives for this location should be a little longer (extra length is normally available on a down-tube) or at least this should be an option. This will allow a little more reduction which will help people avoid the complexity and expense of dual-stage drive with better wrap on the small pulley.
GGoodrum said:
Your suggestion in combination with Matt's existing drive is a very elegant solution. We both believe that down-tube mounting BB driven will be the most popular configuration. A major feature of the existing design is to be universal. If these are going to be popular I think it is worth brainstorming designs that are optimized for that location. I think a major consideration should be a solution that requires less of Matt's time on each drive.
I suggested an alternative drive design for down-tube mounts because I am starting to think the existing drive might be much more complex than is required for down-tube mounting. My intention was a simpler overall solution. I think using flat-plates, U-bolt mounts, and a slotted motor mount instead of a slotted motor, that each unit including mounts, will require less custom work than the existing drives without mounts. I agree that custom clamps are more elegant (not a ton ) than U-bolts.
Bottom Line, I love your clamp idea (it's almost as good as my own idea
) if:1. If Matt wants to produce them (one or two additional relatively complex parts).
2. If he wants to produce mounts that accommodate different tubing sizes and shapes
3. If the resulting cost is not prohibitive.
Another option is to combine our ideas, a custom clamp combined with a simpler flat-plate drive.
GGoodrum said:
I don't like the idea of a setscrew. I'm not confident that a 3-4" long clamp is sufficient (maybe a thin piece of rubber between the clamp and the frame would help?). If it is sufficient its more elegant than an additional bracket or plate.
A more complex solution would be to extend the clamp or plate all the way to the bottom bracket, at which point it could clamp onto or fit snugly around the down-tube. This would be stronger than relying on the clamp and more elegant than an additional plate or bracket but require more customized fitting than either.
In any event other than doing our best to provide constructive feedback we don't need to be concerned. If Matt decides to produce down-tube mount drives he'll probably come up with a solution that is better than either of our ideas
AussieJester
1 TW
recumpence said:Of course, I could always torture you and not take any pics. Then you could just wait for it to be rowed across the ocean slowly, get through customs, and eventually make it to your house.
Matt
ROFL...i dunno though Matt, posting pics of his drive unit/motor thats destined for him but still sits on the other side of the pond seems as torturous to me, lil like dangling a t-bone just out of reach of a dog hehehe... I guess ol 'D' will get to druel over the pics though LoL...DAMN you to hell recumpence you and your blinged out machined pr0n LoL...
KiM
Apprentice Gangsta 8)
recumpence
1 GW
D,
Your motor should be here soon. My guess would be that it will show up right about when the anodizing is done. It will be very good to see this drive all done. It should look very good. Your application is very unique. So, I am interested in seeing how it all comes together. You and I may have our builds running at about the same pace here shortly.
Mitch,
I am open to anything. My RC helicopters taught me to listen to those who buy products, but keep an eye on production cost. I have thought of a few options for downtube mounting. If this looks to be the main desire of most buyers, I can design an entirely new drive that is layed out specifically for downtube only use. That would be cheaper to make and more elegent. It will be far less universal, though. Also, a BB drive typically requires a very low reduction that may be tough to achieve in one stage. Going above about 80 teeth gets expensive and very large for one pulley. But, again, I am open to anything.
So, JRH is getting a black two stage drive (trade for lipos and an HV110). It will be good to get a few of these into the hands of more people here on the ES.
Matt
Your motor should be here soon. My guess would be that it will show up right about when the anodizing is done. It will be very good to see this drive all done. It should look very good. Your application is very unique. So, I am interested in seeing how it all comes together. You and I may have our builds running at about the same pace here shortly.
Mitch,
I am open to anything. My RC helicopters taught me to listen to those who buy products, but keep an eye on production cost. I have thought of a few options for downtube mounting. If this looks to be the main desire of most buyers, I can design an entirely new drive that is layed out specifically for downtube only use. That would be cheaper to make and more elegent. It will be far less universal, though. Also, a BB drive typically requires a very low reduction that may be tough to achieve in one stage. Going above about 80 teeth gets expensive and very large for one pulley. But, again, I am open to anything.
So, JRH is getting a black two stage drive (trade for lipos and an HV110). It will be good to get a few of these into the hands of more people here on the ES.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Kim,
I remember going through this with my heli products. I was all the talk for a while (3 years), then it died down. Kind of like the local cutie who just moved in. She is all the talk untill everyone goes out with her. Then she is a nobody with a bad reputation. :wink:
Matt
I remember going through this with my heli products. I was all the talk for a while (3 years), then it died down. Kind of like the local cutie who just moved in. She is all the talk untill everyone goes out with her. Then she is a nobody with a bad reputation. :wink:
Matt
GGoodrum
1 MW
Here's what we're talking about:
Pretty simple, really. Granted, this won't work for some of the fancy-shaped, non-circular frame tubes, but for many/most setups, this would be perfect. One slight change would be to add a couple of small threaded holes on the end of the small half, so that a plate, or a box could be mounted between the clamps for holding the controller and/or the throttle convertor board.
-- Gary
Pretty simple, really. Granted, this won't work for some of the fancy-shaped, non-circular frame tubes, but for many/most setups, this would be perfect. One slight change would be to add a couple of small threaded holes on the end of the small half, so that a plate, or a box could be mounted between the clamps for holding the controller and/or the throttle convertor board.
-- Gary
I've been trying to pick up as much as possible by reading past posts, but for some reason I'm missing some things.
How are you connecting to the rear hub? At one point I saw references to the disc brake mount, and at others I saw discussion regarding what seems to be a custom hub.
If you are hooking to the disc brake mount, then what do you do for brakes? I know a lot of RC car controllers have braking programmed in, but the Castle Creations controller I saw referenced seems to be a water-cooled boat controller.
Another thing, I'm making the assumption that the motors David is making are brushless DC. Is this correct? Sensorless? What sort of costs and what sort of controller are associated with those motors?
At this time, my main focus is on transportation with something which is not junk. I don't like a whole lot of the other e-bike solutions out there. In some cases maybe my bias against crappy bikes may be making my decision right away before I get a chance to see the mechanism, and in other cases an ignorant teenager trying to feed me BS turns me off. Anyway, I haven't decided yet on a purely legal (1.5kW) motor or on the monster, but I would like some information on what people are doing about both.
Are there overheating problems yet with these motors? I saw references to it earlier in the thread. One possible solution would be to put a button fan in there, powered by a different motor. It sounds like extra everything, except that when I'm trying to get up a hill I don't want to stop because the motor is overheating. Or the controller.
How are you connecting to the rear hub? At one point I saw references to the disc brake mount, and at others I saw discussion regarding what seems to be a custom hub.
If you are hooking to the disc brake mount, then what do you do for brakes? I know a lot of RC car controllers have braking programmed in, but the Castle Creations controller I saw referenced seems to be a water-cooled boat controller.
Another thing, I'm making the assumption that the motors David is making are brushless DC. Is this correct? Sensorless? What sort of costs and what sort of controller are associated with those motors?
At this time, my main focus is on transportation with something which is not junk. I don't like a whole lot of the other e-bike solutions out there. In some cases maybe my bias against crappy bikes may be making my decision right away before I get a chance to see the mechanism, and in other cases an ignorant teenager trying to feed me BS turns me off. Anyway, I haven't decided yet on a purely legal (1.5kW) motor or on the monster, but I would like some information on what people are doing about both.
Are there overheating problems yet with these motors? I saw references to it earlier in the thread. One possible solution would be to put a button fan in there, powered by a different motor. It sounds like extra everything, except that when I'm trying to get up a hill I don't want to stop because the motor is overheating. Or the controller.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Matt,
I really like that idea. Cheaper, better (includes mounting) and more elegant!
I think its what Gary and I were both trying to get to in different ways.
I'm sure you can do it:
I think using a small primary pulley with an 80t pulley and 219 chain (D's idea) with low kv motors like the Astroflight Gary and D are using or the Low kv version of the motor David plans to produce one stage is doable. The pulley wrap on Gary's small pulley looks like its near the limit and D was concerned with minimal sizing on the small pulley. In designing for a location where more space is available I think it makes sense to make it a little longer so that users can get a little more reduction without being on the edge.
Excellent! A great alternative for use with the existing drive. How much would they cost? How hard would it be to make them for non-circular frames?
recumpence said:
I really like that idea. Cheaper, better (includes mounting) and more elegant
! I think its what Gary and I were both trying to get to in different ways.
I'm sure you can do it:
Mitch said:In any event other than doing our best to provide constructive feedback we don't need to be concerned. If Matt decides to produce down-tube mount drives he'll probably come up with a solution that is better than either of our ideas
recumpence said:
I think using a small primary pulley with an 80t pulley and 219 chain (D's idea) with low kv motors like the Astroflight Gary and D are using or the Low kv version of the motor David plans to produce one stage is doable. The pulley wrap on Gary's small pulley looks like its near the limit and D was concerned with minimal sizing on the small pulley. In designing for a location where more space is available I think it makes sense to make it a little longer so that users can get a little more reduction without being on the edge.
recumpence said:
Excellent! A great alternative for use with the existing drive. How much would they cost? How hard would it be to make them for non-circular frames?
Regarding mounting, I don't mind your standard mountings as long as I can get a different one for my recumbent. Preferably with a quick disconnect. I'll probably make a glass or carbon molded clamp, maybe with some sort of padding in there.
How critical is the alignment between the sprockets? Is there room to put a layer of some sort of non-scratch inside the frame clamps? I would like to be able to sell the bike at some point, so would rather have zero permanent modifications.
How critical is the alignment between the sprockets? Is there room to put a layer of some sort of non-scratch inside the frame clamps? I would like to be able to sell the bike at some point, so would rather have zero permanent modifications.
perfect, simple, strong, line with rubber and forget twist? :lol:
does anyone think reinforcing the post internally will be needed?
yes im really looking forward to seeing it in it's black and silver guise 8) you can't not show me, i see your game, get me addicted then withdraw the supply making me desperate!! lol
if our rides are at the same pace now no prizes for who's will be done first i'll still be choosing parts and you'll have yours done!!
thanks for the answer northernmike
Cheers,
D
does anyone think reinforcing the post internally will be needed?
recumpence said:
yes im really looking forward to seeing it in it's black and silver guise 8) you can't not show me, i see your game, get me addicted then withdraw the supply making me desperate!! lol
if our rides are at the same pace now no prizes for who's will be done first
i'll still be choosing parts and you'll have yours done!! thanks for the answer northernmike
Cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
So, do you want to leave it totally black, or would you like some decorative reliefs machined in? That would give you that two tone black/silver look.
Matt
Matt
ah, i see, not content with pimping me out with your pron parts then withdrawing it, but now offering me a stronger blend :lol:
as black as possible please Matt 8) i meant the pulley silver/black body 8)
what did you think of the clamps gary showed? thats right where my money would be? (read, could you make them? :lol: )
Cheers,
D
as black as possible please Matt 8) i meant the pulley silver/black body 8)
what did you think of the clamps gary showed? thats right where my money would be? (read, could you make them? :lol: )
Cheers,
D
GGoodrum
1 MW
1clue said:
What we are talking about here is driving a chainwheel on the crankset, which has a freewheel.
1clue said:
Yes, David's motor will be brushless and sensorless. The motor D and I will be trying out first is an AstroFlight 3210, which is a fairly big motor, by RC standards. The controller we will use is a Castle Creations HV110 model, which is good for 50V and well over 100A. We have a separate project going on to do a special convertor board that will allow a standard ebike-type throttle, with hall sensors or resistive (typically 0-5k ohms...), to control the RC controller, which expects a 1-2ms pulse stream from an RC radio. this board will also have a pot for adjusting a current limit and it will have places for adding four 330 uF caps, which it turns out the controller needs to make it work better in the ebike environment.
1clue said:
This can be easily controlled via the motor selection and current limiting, but most of us doing these early setups are going for lots of power, up in the 5kW range.
1clue said:
With the high-quality motors, like the Astro or like David's, I don't expect these to get too much above room temp. The cheaper variants from China, et all, are a different story. The truth of the matter is we really don't know for sure yet how well some the cheaper motors will do just yet.
-- Gary
GGoodrum said:
I'm not sure if I like that. You mean that, A, the chain ring spins, and B, that I need a different crank than my carbon fiber one, and C, the electric motor cares what gear I'm in? Or am I missing the point altogether? Please say it's E, none of the above. In which case, I still don't know how power gets from Matt's drive to the wheel.
GGoodrum said:
So David's motor is not done yet? OK, that is fine even if a bit disappointing, for the same reason it's disappointing to the rest of you.
Why are you using an air controller? Or is it just because you can get more current and more voltage in there? I don't mean to second-guess every little detail, I would simply like to know. And maybe I'll second guess you after I understand what you did.
GGoodrum said:1clue said:
This can be easily controlled via the motor selection and current limiting, but most of us doing these early setups are going for lots of power, up in the 5kW range.
If you have programmable current limiting in that controller, then I totally understand.
GGoodrum said:
You probably won't find out by having me be your guinea pig. My intent isn't so much to have an electric bicycle as it is to have a reliable electric vehicle to commute a 20+ mile round trip every day. I've been thinking about a DIY electric car for a while now, and then realized that most of the time I drive my big fat butt around, and nothing else. Or very little else. Why carry 4 tons of steel and lead (batteries) when you only need to move 250 lbs?
Anyway, my point in that is that I don't want a cheap-o anything on there, I want reliable. If I have to wait longer to afford it, then so be it. I'm not made out of money or anything, but I also don't want to spend a few hundred dollars on something and have it burn out right away. Rather spend twice that and have it last long enough to decide if I like it or not.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
It's up to you. Pros and cons to both choices. I personally don't see any good reason not to drive via the Crank and think the gearing advantage makes this choice a feature.
Driving via the chain ring is probably the easiest way to connect and it allows the motor to take advantage of the bikes gears like this (also by Gary). Better performance with 1/2 the power:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=8035&start=0
Here's an example via the left side (low speed performance is very poor due to a lack of reduction):
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5156
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5156
The Astroflight's are fine. I think David's will turn out to be a little better but if you are in a hurry I wouldn't worry about it.
1clue said:
GGoodrum said:
1clue said:
It's up to you. Pros and cons to both choices. I personally don't see any good reason not to drive via the Crank and think the gearing advantage makes this choice a feature.
Driving via the chain ring is probably the easiest way to connect and it allows the motor to take advantage of the bikes gears like this (also by Gary). Better performance with 1/2 the power:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=8035&start=0
Here's an example via the left side (low speed performance is very poor due to a lack of reduction):
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5156
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5156
The Astroflight's are fine. I think David's will turn out to be a little better but if you are in a hurry I wouldn't worry about it.
MitchJi said:
Maybe if the chain idler is somewhere in the middle? Say, the second jack shaft replaces my intermediate idler on the recumbent? That might be a happy medium, where I get the back 9 but not the front 3. The jack shaft would need 2 one-ways I think? I don't like the Burley approach toward chain management anyway, but I don't really want to replace my perfectly good carbon crank. Actually let me rephrase that: I really don't want to replace my perfectly good carbon crank.
MitchJi said:
It's not going to happen tomorrow for me anyway. First, I don't have enough information. Second, right at the moment I don't have the money. I'll give Matt a call probably tomorrow, and if he's amenable to the idea I might wander up that way since I'm so close. I'm trying to get most of the beginner questions out of the way first.
Edit:
Oh yeah, thanks for all the help!
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
That sounds like what I would like to do but I can't find a Full Suspension Frame it will work easily with. From an earlier post:
This requires more work to set up the drive but less to set up the bike (if there is room with your frame):
1. The output shaft from the GB Freewheels.
2. The sprocket on the output shaft attached to the crank needs to Freewheel.
3. The sprocket on the output shaft attached to the rear hub needs to be fixed.
I figured out most of the drive issues before I gave up on the idea so if you decide to pursue it and need some advice let me know.
Also the Pi ebike uses this drive. It uses a hub motor in the middle:
1clue said:
That sounds like what I would like to do but I can't find a Full Suspension Frame it will work easily with. From an earlier post:
This requires more work to set up the drive but less to set up the bike (if there is room with your frame):
1. The output shaft from the GB Freewheels.
2. The sprocket on the output shaft attached to the crank needs to Freewheel.
3. The sprocket on the output shaft attached to the rear hub needs to be fixed.
I figured out most of the drive issues before I gave up on the idea so if you decide to pursue it and need some advice let me know.
Also the Pi ebike uses this drive. It uses a hub motor in the middle:
etard
100 kW
I like that clamp, maybe an improvement would be to use it in conjunction with the bottle cage screws which are universal anyway to help counteract the twisting forces. That along with strong clamp should be enough? Or you could just drill a hole through frame and drive a pin through the hole thing. And then the chain (belt) could be tensioned by sliding the assembly up or down on the clamps. Just a thought....
AussieJester
1 TW
1clue said:
If your setting this drive (or are wanting to) on a recumbent theres no better one to look at than the man whos making the drives he has THE sweetest rc motor setup on his bent bike...
KiM
Apprentice Gangsta 8)
I just went to see Matt today, and got a tour of his shop.
I was impressed by the drives he's making. I'm going to think on it for a while, but my first impression is that one of those two stage drives has my name on it. I also got to fondle one of those Astro motors, gotta say I'm very impressed with that too.
I figure that will probably go with is to put Matt's drive in between the crank and the cassette. There is an idler there to keep the chain under control. That could be the second jack shaft, and could be on an idler. A second idler could be on the motor to that same shaft, and by doing so I could allow either to idle and not force the other to turn.
As I said before, I'm just not interested in switching off my carbon fiber crank. Not only that, but I don't see much advantage in doing so. I've wanted one since I first heard of them, I have one now and that's that. I would consider switching out my rear hub for a 14-speed internally geared one though. Can't remember the brand, but it was referenced earlier in the thread with some other esoteric hubs.
Matt,
Technically speaking I could have only two idlers on the whole bike, except that the rear cassette is on one already. If the sprocket going to the rear cassette is solid on the shaft, you could put the driven from the pedals on an idler and also put the motor gear on an idler. If the rear cassette is frozen, then you can shift while neither motor nor pedals are turning.
My recumbent is not suspended at all. It would be nice, but just not in the cards right now. If this goes well and I decide to do it, my next idea would be a fully suspended reverse trike with an optional cover.
I was impressed by the drives he's making. I'm going to think on it for a while, but my first impression is that one of those two stage drives has my name on it. I also got to fondle one of those Astro motors, gotta say I'm very impressed with that too.
I figure that will probably go with is to put Matt's drive in between the crank and the cassette. There is an idler there to keep the chain under control. That could be the second jack shaft, and could be on an idler. A second idler could be on the motor to that same shaft, and by doing so I could allow either to idle and not force the other to turn.
As I said before, I'm just not interested in switching off my carbon fiber crank. Not only that, but I don't see much advantage in doing so. I've wanted one since I first heard of them, I have one now and that's that. I would consider switching out my rear hub for a 14-speed internally geared one though. Can't remember the brand, but it was referenced earlier in the thread with some other esoteric hubs.
Matt,
Technically speaking I could have only two idlers on the whole bike, except that the rear cassette is on one already. If the sprocket going to the rear cassette is solid on the shaft, you could put the driven from the pedals on an idler and also put the motor gear on an idler. If the rear cassette is frozen, then you can shift while neither motor nor pedals are turning.
My recumbent is not suspended at all. It would be nice, but just not in the cards right now. If this goes well and I decide to do it, my next idea would be a fully suspended reverse trike with an optional cover.
Matt,
Just had an idea. Here's my understanding of how your drive goes together, and with my double sprocket on the end. (that's assuming I figure out how to post my totally inadequate image)
So that's the drive stretched out (please forgive my art skills, they are nonexistent) but consider this:
Say everything is arranged such that there is nothing in the way going forward or back. The sprocket going to the wheel is right where you planned on putting it. The sprocket to the pedals is going in approximately the other direction, 180 degrees off.
Also consider, in order for the gearing to work out for the existing ratios, the yellow and purple sprockets need to be the same size. So when I'm pedaling, there would be a small torque moving the second jack shaft counterclockwise in the drawing, but generally a smaller torque than would be present under motor power.
The disadvantage of course would be that under BOTH pedals AND motor, the forces could be large.
That's just food for thought I guess, the solution is to put that extra bracket on there like you had said, to support the outer side of the shaft.
Hmm, I already discovered a problem. The yellow sprocket going to the wheel would not be a freewheel, it would be solid on the shaft. The second stage driven would be a freewheel. Right?
Just had an idea. Here's my understanding of how your drive goes together, and with my double sprocket on the end. (that's assuming I figure out how to post my totally inadequate image)
So that's the drive stretched out (please forgive my art skills, they are nonexistent) but consider this:
Say everything is arranged such that there is nothing in the way going forward or back. The sprocket going to the wheel is right where you planned on putting it. The sprocket to the pedals is going in approximately the other direction, 180 degrees off.
Also consider, in order for the gearing to work out for the existing ratios, the yellow and purple sprockets need to be the same size. So when I'm pedaling, there would be a small torque moving the second jack shaft counterclockwise in the drawing, but generally a smaller torque than would be present under motor power.
The disadvantage of course would be that under BOTH pedals AND motor, the forces could be large.
That's just food for thought I guess, the solution is to put that extra bracket on there like you had said, to support the outer side of the shaft.
Hmm, I already discovered a problem. The yellow sprocket going to the wheel would not be a freewheel, it would be solid on the shaft. The second stage driven would be a freewheel. Right?
recumpence
1 GW
Glad to have you come by.
The best way to do this would be two freewheels on the drive output shaft. That would give you freedom to pedal without motor drag and run the motor without pedal drag.
Whe you get to this point, we can get together again and work out the shaft support details. Anything is possible, it is purely a matter of time and effort.
Matt
The best way to do this would be two freewheels on the drive output shaft. That would give you freedom to pedal without motor drag and run the motor without pedal drag.
Whe you get to this point, we can get together again and work out the shaft support details. Anything is possible, it is purely a matter of time and effort.
Matt
recumpence said:
a mantra for es if ever there was one
1 clue can you post a pic of your bike? i'm hoping your a road user with carbon cranks, it will be interesting to see how you rig up Matts gb too, you've been to matt's shop? lucky swine!! thats like a golden ticket to the wonker factory :lol:
Cheers,
D
Wonka, D., please..... Willy is bad enough...... Similar threads
