How to build E-freeride bike?

[JanneMatti]

I have Canyon Strive 7 2011. Is this a good bike to build on or should I buy another?
Rear, middle or front motor?
Eager beginner needs some good advice
B.r
Janne from Finland

 

[dogman dan]

A good link to your bike would really help. In the USA, canyon is a cheverolet pickup truck.

I found some newer bikes called a canyon. Depending on what kind of riding you will do, a mid drive motor might be a better choice than a hub motor.

We don't know yet what you want. Do you want a fairly light bike that climbs a very steep hill? Or do you want a flyweight motorcycle that does 70 kph? Or do you just want your bike, to take you to work on the street at reasonable bike speeds?

More info from you really helps us give the best answers.

 

[JanneMatti]

Hi!
Thanks for the reply.
Here is the link:
http://uk.bikereserve.com/equipment/bikes-2012/mtb-enduro/mtb-canyon-strive-es7-2012.html
I want my bike to run in the woods 60% and on the road 40%. Speed is not so important, but the torque, something like this.
B.r
Janne

 

[rider95]

I do about 75% mt bike trails the rest bike paths my bike really works great on the trails I am using a MAC 10t from emv 52v 12.5 HPC battery with a 30 amp controller. I wanted a trail worthily bike and with just a simple mod every thing bolted up and the handling is great it,s very fast on the trail and nimble thanks to were I put the battery you got to keep the battery as Low as you can .

 

[fellow]

It's very hard to build a light weight freeride ebike, many of the bikes here at endless are not easy to lift. If you opt for the light hub under 2kg, one is usually not enough and will overheat/stall at heavy hills. One bigger motor (8kg motor for example) is too heavy for the suspension to work properly, and will feel to clumsy/unbalanced to ride on. Two lightweigt oil cooled Q100H 201rpm motors at 13s (54.6V, 17A, P_in=0.9kW, 90USD, 2,2kg each) are 8kg with tires, tubes, rims,freewheel, and spokes. Take a very light alu frame, state of the art Panasonic ncr18650pf high current cells and you are looking at 20kg ebike, if you are lucky. Use the composites, 3,6Ah Panasonic ncr18650b laptopcells and maxwell supercapacitors and you may get down to 16kg. Parts only will cost 2000€+. Don't forget that batteries don't like high currents, so you will need more of them than imagined. Unfortunatly, they got mass too. Under 16kg, I dare to say that it is impossible to get any usefull range. 18km of range is the bare practical minimum (see my signature), we need to wait for the better batteries and cheaper/lighter external fluid cooled motors to arrive.

If you opt for the central RC motor, choose the lightest and with the highest rpm you can get. There is a light 15KW oil cooled german motor that is very suitable, but unfortunatly I've forgot the name of it. It is very expensive. In this case, forget the all wheel drive option.

rider95: That's very impressive bike, what's the total weight and range? 30A controller, is it 30A peak or it is tuned down?

 

[rider95]

I have never weighed it its a intense xc bike tracer you can buy a frame off E-bay I paid $300 with shock no fork , I am getting about 15mi of really good trail riding at a fast pace its about 22mi on the road the speed controller is from EMV it,s a 30amp my CA tells me I am pulling 33amps @1600 watts on the trail that's the peak. I just bought a fast charger from HPC now instead of a 3.5 hr charge time it takes 1.5 hr .

 

[MadRhino]

The bike is a good one to build.
How to build it best is a matter of riding style, type of terrain, target performance and range. You don't say much about that.

 

[JanneMatti]

Hi!
And thx for the comments.
MadRhino ask my riding style,type of terrain, target performance and range.
My riding style is about 60%( forest trails, where the downs and ups. Max. 40km) and 40%(dirtroads and asphalt road).
Is still difficult to describe in more detail the way i drive because everything is still so in the beginning, but driving off-road, however, is the most important thing
Maybe this will help a little?
B.r
Janne

 

[dogman dan]

How fast can you ride on those forest trails. A Mac 10t could be a good choice for you. The problem comes if the trails are so steep and rocky that you cannot handle riding them above 10 mph. 10mph or less, going up, it fries your motor if you keep going on a long enough hill. Or, if you weigh 250 pounds, then you'd be needing more watts than a Mac can dish up.

That's why I was asking what you want. Mad Rhino climbs anything in his area easily, but his bikes are more towards the flyweight motorcycle class. So again, do you want "bike" or flyweight motorcycle.

Great bike for either, btw.

 

[MadRhino]

About riding style:

Freeride suggests that you like to ride down the tracks without power. Gravity riders who are into jumping and technical descent will prefer a light weight mid drive. They need good torque but no real power, only to climb to the top before their ride.

If your trails are nice and you want to speed up the hills, if your ride has no big drops, not many steep technical sections and you are the type to hold full throttle down the slope because fast is not fast enough... You will prefer a powerful DD hub.

If you are moderate type, don't want much speed and jumping anything is not for you, you might prefer a geared hub.

In any case, when you ride the mountain trails you want good brakes and suspension, a robust setup and a bike geometry that is perfectly tuned for your riding style.

 

[Animalector]

I certainly recommend the BBS02 I have one fitted to my XC bike and it's a brilliant performer. plus I can still take off the front wheel and get it into the back of my little Hyundai Getz... It'll climb any hill and will rip down with the feel of a somewhat porky downhill bike...

here's a link to my build

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38846&start=250

Andy

 

[dogman dan]

That does look like a nice mid drive. But if there are no big stones, or logs where he rides, a Bafang will work fine. Some places in my area, the clearance would be a problem. In other places, not an issue every 50 feet down the trail. Care can be taken in an isolated rough spot.

No doubt though, the lighter the system, the more it will ride like a bike going back down. With a 15 pound hubmotor, there is no way I can bomb down a hill the same as on an untouched bike. But I can still have a very enjoyable ride anyway. It's just different, I don't have to creep or anything like that. On the smoother trails, it sure is great to bomb up the trail with lots of power.

 

[JanneMatti]

Hi!
Very competently constructed Animalector bike.
One seller told me that this engine( 8fun ) uses a stroller and chains quickly. Is it true?
B.r
Janne

 

[MadRhino]

I believe this was a google translation

That is the direction most companies are going to: A light weight, low power crank drive. This gives the "bicycle feel" that lots of riders are seeking, and complies with european regulations.

Those who are seeking high power and speed will have to build by themselves for another decade. Companies are not in a rush to produce a 20 HP off road bike with pedals. I can understand them, there is not so good profit to make building with the best frame and components quality, a bike that most will find too dangerous to ride. It is in the scooter market that we are most likely to see quick development of commercially available powerful machines.

 

[rider95]

I don't think you know what you are calling a free ride bike , there will never be a Elec free ride bike it would just be to heavy what I think your wanting is a xc full suspense MT bike and like every full suspense bike were do you put the battery . Just because the bike was free it may not be suitable for a elec bike conv most ppl on here don't ride there elec bike on mt bike trails .

 

[MadRhino]

I don't think you know what you are calling a free ride bike , there will never be a Elec free ride bike it would just be to heavy...

You seem to forget about the early DH and freeride bikes, those were just as heavy as the light weight ebike builds that we can achieve today with modern DH frames and components. Those heavy old school gravity bikes, some of them still hold records that had never been beaten since, and I recall that we were riding them pretty hard and crazy on trails that were far from being nice as they are today. DH racing is another story, where light weight is the only way to win, and you can't beat a modern DH racing bike with any ebike on a DH racing track. (unless you are racing up the hill :wink: )

Freeride is not racing, it is just fun and believe me, you can have a lot of fun on the tracks with a 10kw 55 Lbs bike that is well built and tuned. Make it 70 Lbs 20 Kw, and it is freaking fun if you have the balls.

 

[JanneMatti]

Hi.
I confess to using Google translator, but otherwise you had to read the Finnish heh heh...
MadRhino you're talking about the full facts.
I apologize for the wrong terminology therefore I meant in the previous post E-mountain bike not E-freeride bike.
Not competition, just "fast" and exciting driving on the road and off-road. It is right for me.
This kind of driving I'm looking for the best product. Whether it is rear-, mid- or front motor,please, tell me because I am just a beginner in this case.
My bike( Canyon ) is not a threshold issue because I can buy a "new" one that fits best to the engine.
B.r
Janne

 

[MadRhino]

Since it is your first, and we don't know much about both your building and riding skills, I'd say go with a hub build for a start. You can set that pretty quick, and after riding it for a while you can better define your goals. Then, you still have to define your target speed now, to decide the motor winding and battery voltage.

I like to build a lot of power on a stronger frame, but your bike can be fed 5 Kw safely and it can make a very exciting bike to ride. The only part that requires some skills and patience is to make strong steel drop out plates that need to be a perfect fit. The rest is mostly assembly: Upgrade components, battery and controller mounts, controls on the handlebar...

A hub build is simple and low maintenance, and it can be fairly cheap to build a first ebike to try. After you have one running, you will know what are your preferences in comparison with this one. If you'd prefer it to feel more like a bicycle, you will gather informations about mid drives and how to build the lightest. If you'd prefer it to be faster and more powerful, you will spend your money on a stronger frame, biger hub and performance components. The point is to avoid expanses of time and money in the wrong direction, you need to know what you want before the real investment.

In any case, if you plan to ride the mountain trails you should start to gather informations about RC Lipo batteries. You will need batteries that are light weight with high C-rate, that is the first requirement to build the best mountain machines, no matter the directions that your ebike building will evolve.