Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

[dan974]

Alien / Predator angle views nice One Jay ! would be funny to catch the Girl's Head turns or butts while passing them on a sidebeach walk, I guess it demand a neck synchro :lol:

 

[Rix]

I like your 360 camera. Good footage. If you start doing the roundy round the veiwer could get dizzy. Also, good save on the camera when you dropped into the drink Only saw a little bit of water splashed on the lense.

Rick

 

[Hyena]

would be funny to catch the Girl's Head turns or butts while passing them on a sidebeach walk, I guess it demand a neck synchro :lol:

Been there done that :lol:
Rear facing it easy and a number of pedestrians turn their head for a look. As for the other one, a low mounted camera may have picked up the occasional bit of inadvertant interesting footage :wink:

The camera in the drink vid wasn't mine, Architectonic posted that.
The audio sounds like it was in a waterproof housing anyway.

Speaking of the spinning head cam though, a few people have PMd me asking how I made it so I've done a write up on my blog.
Check it out:
http://www.hyena-industries.com/2013/02/the-spew-camtm.html

There's also a short hill climb test video with the H4065 in my fighter tackling the steepest hill I could find.
Info and vid for that is here:
http://www.hyena-industries.com/2013/02/crystalyte-h4065-hill-climb-test.html

 

[dan974]

good perf & tech info Jay !
any temp's incrase infos after the second attempt ? did you get the 100Amp rush from your tiny controller ! impressed !

here the values :

another range, another machine : 250Wbosch middrive HAIBIKE...(60°)

 

[pendragon8000]

OMGx2 30º climb no wonder you were hitting 6kw+ but it rolled up there prety nicely with a walking speed roll-in. and as for that other climb dan posted ... dont look down

 

[Rix]

NIce hill climb vid, the 4065 was really getting a good work out. I am not sure if my 5404 would go up that, I know the 5403 wouldn't with me on it. Couldn't find the vid of he bosch bike climbing 60 degrees, but if its doing it with only 250 watts, the rider his helping and its a mid drive in the lowes possible gear. Keep em coming Jay,

Rick

 

[litespeed]

That is awesome!

I've only turned up my Lyen 18FET to 52 amps and my 4065 climbs like a billy goat with 26" tires. I think I'm good to 65 amps? On about 10 to 15 degree stuff if I'm not leaning over the bars I'm going to be flat on my back. Hoping once I get the 12--6s 5000 packs on the front fork in the pelican it will help tame the front end down.....pun intended!

Tom

 

[remf]

That's pretty steep though hard to imagine that kind of grade could be maintained for more than a short distance before overheating or cooking the motor. I worry about the longevity of my 4080 on steep rocky climbs though so far so good.

Ego-kits claim up to 80% is possible ("with practice & ideal conditions")

Kinda OT sorry but here's a Canadian company building Santa Cruz V-10's & Nomads with Ego-kits. Nice.

http://www.krankedbikes.com/kustoms

EGO-Kit Performance
(approximate values, depending on rider’s weight, bike setup, conditions and effort)

1000 m of vertical climbing (3280 ft.) …with minimal assistance
70 km/h vmax (43 mph) …depending on your bike setup
Up to 40 km travel (25 miles)
1.5h charging time …with upgradeable charger
masters up to 80% incline (approx. 38°) with practice and ideal conditions
nominal power 1200 W, 2500 W maximum
motor weight 3.2 kg (7.05 lbs), total set on bike about 5.5 kg (12.12 lbs)
battery weight in backpack 4.6 kg (10.14 lbs)

 

[ezza]

Great looking bikes remf. I just wonder why they can't make a less noisy motor?

 

[pendragon8000]

Mid drive seems to dominate for hill climbing but I think any MD kit with a significant amount of power should come with a high strength rear chain, I don't think that tec exists (for regular consumers), many ppl report severe chain stretch. Maybe a nuvince cvt rear hub and upgraded single speed could solve the problem .
Edit
Cool diagram IMO
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_Transmission

 

[t3sla]

OMGx2 30º climb no wonder you were hitting 6kw+ but it rolled up there prety nicely with a walking speed roll-in. and as for that other climb dan posted ... dont look down

I think my phones inclinometer was reading something in the mid/low 30º range.

You should note that the top layer was comprised of a tanbark (as can be seen ~0:24 second mark)

This is a great real world test of climbing ability as you see the amperage sink effect of traction-loss in-efficiency.
You repeat the same gradient test on ash-felt and it becomes much easier.

The irony of riding back down to 250W land behind the pedelec is not lost.

 

[dan974]

just to be clear, this was not hub motors vs mid drive...it's just about hill climbing.

 

[pendragon8000]

just to be clear, this was not hub motors vs mid drive...it's just about hill climbing.

yeah all good (IMO) just want to add 1 thing though.. I was looking at a ego kit and conacted them about it (there was a language barrier) and also contacted Hyena. ego replied after i had already begun my transaction/order with Hyena. and now im prety happy with the maintnence free DD hub motor (at the cost of 7kg unsprung weight). not arguing, just my POV.

 

[Hyena]

Yeah they look like good kits, I've just yet to see a stock drive train powered mid drive that can beat the performace of a beefy hub. Granted the middrive will climb a steeper hill in 1st gear but for general riding I prefer the no gears convenience of a hub motor. Changing gears is a novelty for 2 minutes but then you realise you're not driving a F1 car and it's actually a PITA to accelerate from stop to top speed. That is assuming you're used to riding an ebike and not pedalling through the gears 'the old way' haha.

Speaking of which I took my fighter out for a thrash yesterday and got her weeeeell toasty. H4065 still sealed and no thermostat and running 9kw. 75oC on the side covers so I imagine the windings were mighty warm.
God damn though, the acceleration on single track is insane. Grabbing a fist full of throttle is like jumping into hyperspace as the twisty trail ahead of you disappears and suddenly you're about to plow into a tree that your brain has barely had time to register is even there :lol: No time for shifting gears, lean on the throttle for a second and you're back on the brakes.
I also did some speed and acceleration runs on a bike test track with the camera pointed to the CA as much as possible to show the performance. The speed lags behind about half a second on the CA but you get the idea. I'm editing now and will post shortly.

In the mean time domestic duties got the better of me on the weekend. I bought a new battery powered line trimmer (18v 1.5ah NiCd pack LOL!) with the intention of upgrading it. As suspected the battery died in the arse after literally 5 minutes so it was time for lipo surgery.
Info and pics here on my blog if anyone cares:

http://www.hyena-industries.com/

Choice quotes:
"It had about as much guts as an anorexic midget who's had gastric bypass surgery"
"Oh your expensive line trimmer has a nice little LED bar to tell you how much battery is remaining ? That's cute." (in reference to mine with a watt meter on on the end)
http://www.hyena-industries.com/2013/02/steroids-for-my-line-trimmer_18.html

 

[dan974]

the ride you're talinkg Jay...still using a 18s pack or did you pull 9Kw out of it with 24S and a secret hidden controller to be out soon ?

 

[Hyena]

Nope, external booster pack - 24S - so ~90v, 100 amps.

Here's the vid

[youtube]DboIRlOvbg0[/youtube]

 

[full-throttle]

I've just yet to see a stock drive train powered mid drive that can beat the performace of a beefy hub.

So you are saying you haven't seen a STOCK mid drive that can beat a NON-STOCK hub?

Do you remember what happened in Melbourne, my stock GNG literally run circles around the (non-stock) Fighter you were riding

However if we were to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges - those e-go kits on Santacruz that remf posted will beat ANY stock hub-motor bike. And Luke's death bike will destroy ANY hub-motor bike. BTW it doesn't have any gears

 

[litespeed]

Cool video. So what controller are you using for 100 amps? I'm sure I read it somewhere but trying to find it would be a needle in a haystack at this point. I don't even know what to search for. My 4065 is a beast at 5000 watts and now after seeing that video I wanna try 6 to 7000 just for, well you know........FUN!

BTW I have the Black & Decker 36 volt trimmer that uses the old 36v a123 packs I used to pick apart when I was flying them in my helicopters. Anyway this thing is really powerful. I can trim my .80 acre on one charge running full power. I have to lower the power level if I want to edge my whole yard/driveway with one charge. Battery charges from flat to 100% in less than 1/2 hour.
Two thumbs up even.....

http://www.blackanddecker.com/outdoor/LST136.aspx

Tom

 

[Hyena]

I've just yet to see a stock drive train powered mid drive that can beat the performace of a beefy hub.

So you are saying you haven't seen a STOCK mid drive that can beat a NON-STOCK hub?

Nope, though it depends what you call beat. Sure a mid drive might crawl up a near vertical incline that the hub won't but unless that's all you're doing I'm happy to take the trade off of a little extra weight of the hub for a more hassle and maintenance free ride.

Do you remember what happened in Melbourne, my stock GNG literally run circles around the (non-stock) Fighter you were riding

Yeah, non-stock in the sense that it was worse than standard with a little geared motor on there
But I agree even the stock fighter isn't a mountain goat. It does however deliver the best performance given the constraints of battery size and voltage with a compromise between top speed and torque. I suspect if you gave people an option of having a fighter with more end torque and less top speed most would still opt for the current configuration.

However if we were to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges - those e-go kits on Santacruz that remf posted will beat ANY stock hub-motor bike.

I dont doubt they'd go well at 2.5kw, but for how long with the stock drivetrain before the chains stretch and/or break ?
I guess the nearest comparison you'd make would be to a standard stealth fighter. Again I cant directly compare because I haven't ridden a decent powered mid drive like this. I do remember talking to tooman2 in Canberra though who had one of tg\he more expensive and more powerful mid drive commercial ebikes (can't remember the name off the top of my head) and he said it crapped out pretty quickly (I couldnt test ride it because it was in pieces)

And Luke's death bike will destroy ANY hub-motor bike. BTW it doesn't have any gears

No doubt, you conveniently overlooked the part where I said STOCK drive train
Of course you can bolt a monster chain drive motor to a bike and feed it 1.21gw and it will reign supreme.

On a more close comparison I did have the opportunity to ride a sydney members mid drive bike which is the most powerful I've heard of running through the stock drive train. Infact I'm suprised it was holding together given he was running 5kw though it. It was a large golden motor trike motor powering through the standard derailleur - 20S lipo and around 70A. Needless to say it went well but I was actually expecting more from it given the hype of mid drives. It went quite comparably to my H4080 on 5kw, even pulling the same current climbing a constant up hill section (it was in sydney ES ride vid I posted a while back). One thing that did stand out was the inconvenience of the gears. Sure it had nice low down pull in 1st gear but then you were constantly flicking through gears to get the speed up. And then once you were up to speed and braking hard into a corner you were back flicking through the gears again looking for the power band. I guess you'd quickly get used to this and my experience was a bit limited in the short test ride but I think for an ebike I prefer the constant pull of a slow wind motor on high voltage. Actually no, my ultimate would be a 2 speed high powered, quiet mid drive. 0-50 in 1st and 40-80 in 2nd.

 

[Rix]

Hyena and Full Throttle, there is only one way to settle this, drag race, first to 75Kph gets a pint or 6 bought for him at his pub of choice. Its time to nut up or shut up :lol: :lol:

 

[Hyena]

Cool video. So what controller are you using for 100 amps?

Modded 18 fet crystalyte. It only peaks at 100 amps though, this motor doesn't draw high current for very long. As you can see from the CA is spends most of its time around 5kw and lower. On the trails ridden "normally" it skips along happily pulling only 500-800w.

My 4065 is a beast at 5000 watts and now after seeing that video I wanna try 6 to 7000 just for, well you know........FUN!

Yeah it gets addictive! As above it only pulls that top end power for a second or 2 so for general riding yours on 5kw would ride much the same. Because alot of the power is wasted as heat at the top end you're only seeing a small percentage of that extra power hitting the road. The difference in feel between 3 and 5 kw (2kw extr) is much greater than the difference between 5kw and 9kw (4kw extra)

BTW I have the Black & Decker 36 volt trimmer that uses the old 36v a123 packs I used to pick apart when I was flying them in my helicopters.

Yeah I would have used A123s if I had them. I actually planned to swap out the existing motor and fit a RC conversion with brushless motor and ESC but I dont really thing it's necessary at this stage for the relatively light duty it's seeing in my yard. What I SHOULD to is fit a powerful motor and blades to the bottom of of a large scale RC truck and sit back in the shade, mowing my lawn remotely

Hyena and Full Throttle, there is only one way to settle this, drag race, first to 75Kph gets a pint or 6 bought for him at his pub of choice. Its time to nut up or shut up

haha I'm game. Given we're interstate from each other video evidence will do and I'll accept $6 paypal to buy a beer

 

[full-throttle]

Hyena and Full Throttle, there is only one way to settle this, drag race, first to 75Kph gets a pint or 6 bought for him at his pub of choice. Its time to nut up or shut up :lol: :lol:

Sure. Find me a stock bike that can reach 75kph and ill do it

Otherwise I'll accept the challenge on a proper ~10km MTB track. Not some boring, smooth, straight, flat track but something with corners, rockgardens, drops, etc.. If hyena wins I'll buy him a beer, if I win he'll wear a pink dress for a day :lol:

 

[AussieJester]

If hyena wins I'll buy him a beer, if I win he'll wear a pink dress for a day :lol:

I dunno Fullthrottle, rumours are pink dresses are in Jays work clothes wardrobe "rotation"
I believe instead of "Jeans Day" on Fridays he dons a nice frock ...perhaps if haha "if".... WHEN he
loses he should wear his assless leather pants to work for the day teehehe

KiM

 

[Hyena]

Sure. Find me a stock bike that can reach 75kph and ill do it

The PG blacktrail supposedly does 80 - that should do. Let me know when you've saved up enough

Or lets make it fair and drop the speed to say 50km/hr. Will your GNG powered by your fancy new russian controller do that ?
I'll even give you a head start to compensate for the throttle lag

Otherwise I'll accept the challenge on a proper ~10km MTB track. Not some boring, smooth, straight, flat track but something with corners, rockgardens, drops, etc.. If hyena wins I'll buy him a beer, if I win he'll wear a pink dress for a day :lol:

haha, this is about the electric power not rider skill or characteristics of the bikes handling

I dunno Fullthrottle

Oh look it's aussie jester.
You want to join in the race too mate ? We shouldn't discriminate against people with sewing machine motor powered bikes. Mind you it is a requirement that you do have a working bike to ride. Over the last 5 years I think you've had a bike working on average for what, 2 weeks/year ?

 

[t3sla]

You know what you all have in common?

None of your bikes have bells