Hyena's YamEha Conversion

[Hyena]

OK, I figured I'd better create a build thread for this , if for no other reason that people might periodically bump it and keep me enthused to keep working on it

The donor bike is a yamaha R15, a sports bike shaped object that has a 150cc engine. Weight is 135kg which seems like a good platform to convert to electric. Although it has a sport-ish appearance you sit somewhat more upright on it than a normal sports bike making for a good commuter



The plan for this build is simplicity and bang for buck. I'm going to basically just scale up what I do with my other high powered offroad ebikes and fit a bigger hub motor and controller. Yeah, it's extra unsprung mass in the back wheel but for a strictly road going bike that'll just be plodding around the city and a bit of local hooning on weekends I'm sure it'll be fine.

What I've ordered is a V3 8kw QS 273 motor in cast 17" wheel. This adds a little extra weight but is convenient and also extra heatsinking, plus aesthetically it fits in more with the front wheel.



The controller is a 600A 120V APT beast. That 600A is phase current no doubt but they tell me there's actually no programmed battery current limit so presumably if I want to go with a 1:1 ratio it will deliver 600A of burst battery current if demanded ? I guess we'll see.
Here's a large German bloke holding it for scale :lol:



For the battery I'm going with banks of 4S high voltage turnigy multistar 16ah packs. I'll run them 4p for 64ah capacity at 26S (113v full charge and just shy of 100v nominal.) The pack is relatively small (phantom quad for scale) in the grand scheme of things but should give me around 100km range at a guess. Realistically I won't be riding it more than 50km return on a regular basis (work is 16km/10mi) so this should be a heap of range and for the most part the batteries will only be drawing 1-2C. Not sure yet whether I'll put the pouches on show in a clear plexiglass box or make it as stealthy as possible and hide them all behind the fairings and tank. I could fit the majority of the pack in the tank and upper frame section but I'll probably put it down low.




This will be my poor mans zero. I'm not sure what sort of performance to expect but it should be decent. Hopefully not too far off the SR. Peak power will likely come close and at worst it should be about 150kg, so 50kg lighter than the SR

The motor and controller and being loaded on a boat with some other stuff for sea shipping this week, stay tuned for updates in ~ 6 weeks.

 

[Manny]

hee Hyena,

Nice project. I am planing on doing the same to a Aprillia RS50.

how was the ordering proces with QS motor. did you order it trough aliexpress.com ? shipping time?

good luck

manfred

 

[wannesd]

Wow, gotta see how this unfolds!

 

[Scottydog]

Looks to be a sound project! What width can you run on the rear? I know the YZF125 has a 130 wide rear.

Interesting your choice in battery, did you have thoughts regarding the 18650 format?

 

[litespeed]

Looks nice. I figured you'd try the leaf cells with all the room your going to have.

Your route will definitely be lighter though.

Tom

 

[jansevr]

Awesome project definitely looking forward to seeing this one!

I've had my eye on that ATP controller for a while...was thinking about trying it out with my qs205 v3 and about 20-25kw peaks. I knew it was 600a phase but will be curious to see how much battery you can pull!

Also I'm glad to see someone else with a 273 as I haven't heard much about it. 30-40kw peaks should be possible especially with some sort of cooling whether ferrofluid or air holes/scoops. I wouldn't be surprised if you can get 0-60 in about the same time as an SR...you'll definitely have yourself a badass poor man's zero. What turn count motor/top speed are you expecting?

Hopefully you don't mind a picture of my bike for reference. 20kw should make for a fun ride with a bike weighing about 120lbs right?

 

[John in CR]

Back in 2012 I ran their 50mm X 273mm hubbie with a Kv of 18rpm/v in a 19.5" OD tire on a 65kg all up bike at 525 phase amp limits and it was a handful. My extra rider weight means yours should be pretty darn zippy, but be glad you don't have mountains to contend with running in that size wheel.

If you pop a cover off please take a pic of the inside of the cover. That I my favorite of their covers, and I'd love to see the shape of the inside surface.

 

[Hyena]

how was the ordering proces with QS motor. did you order it trough aliexpress.com ? shipping time?

I actually ordered via a friend in China who's organise shipping to his house and then chucking it in with a few other things I have coming by sea shipping. But ordering through aliexpress would otherwise be pretty straight forward from previous experiences

Looks to be a sound project! What width can you run on the rear? I know the YZF125 has a 130 wide rear

Not sure yet! I haven't even checked the stock one but it's pretty skinny. I will go as wide as the swing arm will allow (it won't be huge away)

Interesting your choice in battery, did you have thoughts regarding the 18650 format?

I basically went with these cells because they came up super cheap. HK had a major sale on and it was around $1000 for the whole pack and available from the local warehouse with immediate shipping. Sorry to anyone else in the country who wanted one or 2 :lol:
Hard to argue with that value!

Also I'm glad to see someone else with a 273 as I haven't heard much about it. 30-40kw peaks should be possible especially with some sort of cooling whether ferrofluid or air holes/scoops

Im going to try it sealed with FF first, then go down the air cooling route if needed. Given the sheer mass of this motor (22kg!) I think it'll sink a massive amount of heat. That and the fact that it'll only be drawing big power for a few seconds at a time should make it pretty comfortable.

What turn count motor/top speed are you expecting?

I'm not sure no the turn count actually. They quoted the winding as doing 100km/hr on 72v so with 100v plus field weakening I think around 140km/hr top speed is doable. It should certainly have plenty of sting in the 0-100 range and a whole heap of torque in the 20-80km/hr range which is right where I need it.

20kw should make for a fun ride with a bike weighing about 120lbs right?

Yeah should be a giggle. My power:weight max so far has been a 50kg bike with 14kw and it was a struggle to keep the front end from unexpectedly popping up.

If you pop a cover off please take a pic of the inside of the cover. That I my favorite of their covers, and I'd love to see the shape of the inside surface.

Sure, there's a million bolts but I'll probably yank the cover for curiosity. There's some awful cover designs out there but as you said this one is one of the more visually pleasing. Worst case I can matt black the lot.

 

[macribs]

Maybe a bump can help you get your enthusiasm back? Look forward to see this completed.

 

[Hyena]

I have the batteries, mainly waiting on the motor and controller which arrived on the slow last week. They're being unloaded as I type so I hope to get them in my hands either the end of this week or early next week. Progress will be slow going as I have so many unfinished projects and this really isn't much of a priority but I can atleast get started on it

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Sweet build Jay.
I'll be following this with a keen interest as I've been thinking about doing something similar (maybe exactly) the same once I finish and sell my Flux Alpha.

Was there any room for considering an Adaptto MaxE? With adequate cooling I'm sure a MaxE could easily handle 20KW.

Cheers

 

[macribs]

If Hyene finds room for the big APT I am sure an adaptto will fit too.
No wonder he called that APT an ironing board. That thing is huge.

 

[maydaverave]

I have a couple old motorcycles to choose from to do a project with this motor but I'm no expert. I hope to steal your ideas and profit from you sorting out the problems :lol: good luck and nice looking bike.

 

[Hyena]

Was there any room for considering an Adaptto MaxE? With adequate cooling I'm sure a MaxE could easily handle 20KW.

20kw, that's cute
I'm hoping to run double that, maybe more. APT claim it can do 600A.
In any case what's a few kg and a bit of space on an emoto build. I would not like to risk an adaptto at 20kw and if it pops that's a very costly lesson. Sure they can run that power for short intervals on light ebikes but when they're loaded up on a bike that weight more than double and is sustaining high current loads for prolonged periods of time (that you couldn't do on an ebike if you tried) I wouldn't put my money on them. Sure for a light offroad e-dirtbike you're jumping you could give it a run but for a project like this I want some overheads and safety margin. It's light compared to most motorcycles but not light enough I want to be pushing it home!

I hope to steal your ideas and profit from you sorting out the problems :lol:

Welcome to ES, please post a link to your alibaba store :lol:

 

[Rodney64]

Nice doner bike. Subscribed

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Ah fair enough Jay. I think I miss-read what you wrote about to mean you would only be running 20Kw max, but of course that wouldn't be anywhere near enough. :lol: :lol:

So, is the ironing board sinewave FOC?

Cheers

 

[macribs]

APT is a hard core product, it is big. 35 x 15 x 8 cm.
read more; https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1059954#p1059954

 

[amberwolf]

I'm trying to imagine this stuff on CrazyBike2...back when we still had the Death Race down in Tucson. I'm guessing it wouldn't just be my ankle that would get broken....

 

[macribs]

Tried to look at the spec sheet for the APT, maybe I am too tired or misread but it does not seem to be a sine wave controller.
So high output power with a little e-whine to scare off pedestrians. Maybe next revision will have sine wave and FOC for the speed freaks.

 

[Hyena]

Of course it's sinewave foc, what do you guys take me for

" APT Programmable Sine Wave FOC AE96600"

For noise I have a soundracer EV module I'm going to experiment with. Switchable of course, so it only makes noise if I want it too (eg at low speeds around peds)
i haven't had time to properly play with it yet but apparently you can upload your own sound modules - that means I can make it sounds like the most kickass scifi ebike ever.
Or like a ship from the jetsons :lol:

 

[maydaverave]

I hope to steal your ideas and profit from you sorting out the problems :lol:

Welcome to ES, please post a link to your alibaba store :lol:[/quote]
Haha I'm more lazy and inexperienced than greedy. I've been lurking on here for a decade, built a few simple ebikes. I've been waiting for technology and prices to get to where i can build a simple emotorcycle for a couple grand. I just can't bring myself to spend three grand on an ebike i can't legally drive faster than 20mph.

 

[macribs]

Of course it's sinewave foc, what do you guys take me for

" APT Programmable Sine Wave FOC AE96600"

For noise I have a soundracer EV module I'm going to experiment with. Switchable of course, so it only makes noise if I want it too (eg at low speeds around peds)
i haven't had time to properly play with it yet but apparently you can upload your own sound modules - that means I can make it sounds like the most kickass scifi ebike ever.
Or like a ship from the jetsons :lol:

Overlooked it Old tired eyes I guess

Cool thing that soundracer, is it a magnetic pick up and a speaker?

I wonder what peak power the APT can put into your 273, @+100 v and 600 A. Do we dare hope for 30 kw or even 40 kw peak without meltdown?
Man that must have some insane torque and acceleration. And with FOC you can probably gain 20-30% more top speed then the winding and rim size gives you. That thing will move, and with all the A the APT can pump, 20-30% more top speed will likely create some heat. But by then you will have so high speed the motor and controller will be super chilled by the fast moving air
Look forward to see your build completed and race ready.

 

[Hyena]

Cool thing that soundracer, is it a magnetic pick up and a speaker?

Yeah it has a speaker and it takes an input from either a throttle or motor speed (hall) to vary how quickly the audio file is played back, thus simulating engine sounds. Ideally with an advanced system it would use both and the throttle position value could dictate additional variation in the sound output - eg rolling the throttle on slowly vs mashing it. From demos I've seen in RC motors and the like the deceleration could use some work too to make it more realistic. I will go with the motor hall speed as I would want the sound to be more proportional to the speed than the throttle input (you don't want the thing screaming when you launch of the line and then silent as you get up to speed and roll off the throttle) You can also program an idle sound and a 'rev' button to get peoples attention. This normally simulates the engine you're trying to replicate but I guess technically you could make it any sound you like (eg a light sabre powering on, machine gun burst, whatever :lol: )
The whole thing would only be for occasional use a slow speeds where pedestrians are likely to walk out under you because they dont hear you approaching.

I wonder what peak power the APT can put into your 273, @+100 v and 600 A. Do we dare hope for 30 kw or even 40 kw peak without meltdown?

I do indeed hope for 30-40kw peak!
But even it the motor will take it (and I reckon it will) my batteries won't like it. They're 10C multistars and 64ah the controller could supposedly clip their max C rating, but we all know they don't really do that. But 40kw peak is only around 6C and it'd only spike that for a few seconds so I reckon it should be fine. Most of the time cruising around at urban speeds it'll be pulling barely over 1C so they should perform well

I haven't even looked into the field weakening / overspeed characteristics yet but yeah, that should give it some added top end boost too.

 

[amberwolf]

You could use a combiner circuit (transistor or op-amp) to add the throttle and the motor speed together, and feed that to the sound device's control input.

 

[Hyena]

OK so this project has taken a while to get going, and once I had all the parts amassed in front of me to start work I decided not to continue with this donor bike. A: the rear tyre was quite skinny and after looking closely the swing arm it wouldn't have allowed anything over 100mm wide and B: it was a perfectly good, late model bike with nothing wrong with it. So I decided to put it up for sale, and after 2 years of thrashing ownership sold it for $100 less than I paid :lol:

I figure I can get a bike with a busted engine or some other ICE related fault for around $1000 as a donor, and for the extra $1000 I got back on selling my previous ride I can put into the engineering and rego costs to have it totally legit street legal.

So I'm hunting around for a slightly bigger bike now to allow a 120 rear tyre or bigger and hopefully better front brakes too.
Given I'm going totally legit and dont have to hide the electrics part of me wants to put the battery proudly on display with a big clear plexiglass box full of pouch cells and use a naked frame, but I also like the fully faired look hiding everything as a sleeper too.

By many accounts the Megelli 250R is a troublesome bike with common reports of engine and electrical niggles but all of that stuff will go in the bin so all I need is a roller in good cosmetic condition with unmolested fairings etc. Dry weight is a super light 112kg and it'll it takes a 130 rear tyre which is perfect. What seals the deal is the trellis frame and fancy swing arm. I think it looks particularly good in black and red, so that's what I'm on the hunt for. Unless anyone else has any suggestions that tick the above boxes ?

Stay tuned to a title change which hopefully reads Hyena's Megell-E conversion :lol: