Hyperion EOS 1420i NET3 14s Balance Charger...

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hi,

I have one of these chargers, and I have looked over this post, but I still can't see why I am having such long charging times when balancing.

I haven't built custom balance plugs yet, so I have just been using the two ports to charge 2 4S batteries at a time, but this is the crazy part!

Ever since I changed the TVC function to charge up to just approximately 4.18 (would have it at 4.15, but that is low as I can see to adjust it so far, just using the charger's menu, haven't been able to use it with my PC yet), it wants to take like 5 years to balance!!

Hmmm. I've had inconsistent readings from balancers before and I eventually traced them to bad connections. The main culprit in my case was high-resistance crimped connections in the connectors for battery balance leads. In my case, the problem occurred after months of use. You could try different balance cables if possible and/or stressing the connections in one way or another and look for changes in the parallel group voltages. If this does something, you are probably on the right track and can replace the connections or try soldering or whatever...

Thanks for the idea!

I will try the new balance plugs that came with the Hyperion, this is a good point, I never thought of this!

I have been using the old balance plugs from my last charger (might be a bit warn from use, and lower quality) that would explain the inconsistent readings that have always been on the second set of balance plugs regardless of what battery was being charged! 8)

That would explain the inconsistent readings but I don't see how it explains why reducing the voltage increased the charge times.

Well, upon further inspection, I have not found fault with the balance plugs, I still have the "ghost" readings for #8 cell, always higher than the rest, but it does seem to balance things, if I switch things around, everything will be with in .02 V of each other, I guess that is ok. I'm going to call the Hobby Shop and see if they can contact Hyperion and give me some more information.

I know it doesn't make any sense, but after putting the TVC back to factory, it balances much faster?! Doesn't make sense, but it is charging at normal speed now.

One nice thing, maybe this is normal, but even when I have things set at 100% capacity, and factory setting for voltage (4.2V) it seems to get everything to 4.177 - 4.182 and calls it good.

 

[neptronix]

Sounds like a badly calibrated unit.. maybe there is a way to calibrate it?

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I'm pretty sure the problem is setting it to 4.18. Someone did some testing with A123 cells and lowering the max voltage still gave almost the same capacity but took a lot longer to get there.

I think you can accomplish what you want (longer cell life) by setting to charge to 90% or 95% and leaving the voltage at the default.

I have been using the old balance plugs from my last charger (might be a bit warn from use, and lower quality) that would explain the inconsistent readings that have always been on the second set of balance plugs regardless of what battery was being charged!

That would explain the inconsistent readings but I don't see how it explains why reducing the voltage increased the charge times.

I know it doesn't make any sense, but after putting the TVC back to factory, it balances much faster?! Doesn't make sense, but it is charging at normal speed now.

I think, as stated in my earlier post, it does make sense. Set it to charge to 90% or 95% and if it charges and balances at the normal speed you have solved your problems (increased cell life and normal charge/balance times).

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Hi,

I'm pretty sure the problem is setting it to 4.18. Someone did some testing with A123 cells and lowering the max voltage still gave almost the same capacity but took a lot longer to get there.

I think you can accomplish what you want (longer cell life) by setting to charge to 90% or 95% and leaving the voltage at the default.

I have been using the old balance plugs from my last charger (might be a bit warn from use, and lower quality) that would explain the inconsistent readings that have always been on the second set of balance plugs regardless of what battery was being charged!

That would explain the inconsistent readings but I don't see how it explains why reducing the voltage increased the charge times.

I know it doesn't make any sense, but after putting the TVC back to factory, it balances much faster?! Doesn't make sense, but it is charging at normal speed now.

I think, as stated in my earlier post, it does make sense. Set it to charge to 90% or 95% and if it charges and balances at the normal speed you have solved your problems (increased cell life and normal charge/balance times).

Yeah, hopefully, however, it's still taking a lot longer to balance than my old charger, if I could trust the seemingly inflated #8 cell readings (which I don't) I'll see what the hobby shop has to say tomorrow. Hopefully it will be a simple fix or maybe they will send a replacement.

 

[GGoodrum]

It really does sound like connection issues to me, especially if it is the first or last cells in a pack. Constantly plugging and unplugging these cheap JST-HX balance connectors takes a toll on them, and increases the resistance of the connection points. This is why I always use something other than these for connection to the charger.The JST-XH pigtails, from each pack, get plugged in once, to the LVC/parallel adapter board, and only once.

-- Gary

 

[wineboyrider]

Ok I got my Hyperion 1420i yesterday. For now I am only using it like my old 6s chargers, but I was noticing this charger has temperature probes or whatever they are. I am only using a 12v 15amp power supply right now, but I was wondering when I get the harness to do this 12s will I need the temperature probes or whatever?? I really only need to charge at say 5amps or so for my 12s pack to make me happy , but the temperature probes are new for me??? Are these only for higher watt charges as I had no problem charging my lipo @ 6s without them yesterday???

 

[GGoodrum]

Ok I got my Hyperion 1420i yesterday. For now I am only using it like my old 6s chargers, but I was noticing this charger has temperature probes or whatever they are. I am only using a 12v 15amp power supply right now, but I was wondering when I get the harness to do this 12s will I need the temperature probes or whatever?? I really only need to charge at say 5amps or so for my 12s pack to make me happy , but the temperature probes are new for me??? Are these only for higher watt charges as I had no problem charging my lipo @ 6s without them yesterday???

They are not required, but are just an extra safety precaution, going back to the days when LiPos were a lot less reliable. If you had a bad cell, which was not uncommon in the early days, the pack could go into thermal runaway. I haven't seen this happen for years, and even the cheapest of the Turnigy/Zippy family of packs are quite robust.

I should have the 12s connection harness kits up on the site later today, or tomorrow, for sure. I just need to finish up the instructions, which I'm working on right now.

I'm also going to do some package deals with a combo of the connection kit, with the charger, and then another combo with the connection kit, the charger and the 12s LVC/parallel adapter kits.

-- Gary

 

[wineboyrider]

By the way thanks Gary! 8)

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Just wanted to pass along, I have since started charging to 90% only, and now I get the type of charging times I would have expected, however, it would seem that one bank of cells always charges more than the others, so I guess I should switch to the other set of connectors that came with it and see if things change.

Right now with it charging up batteries that were pretty well balanced to start with (at least according to the charger) they get further apart in balance as they charge, for example a typical spread for 90% charged set to 4.18 maximum is:

4.07
4.11
4.13
4.12

4.17
4.18
4.16
4.19

 

[GGoodrum]

This because of too much voltage drop, in the main wires. The first and last cells are seeing this voltage drop, so the readouts appear off. I think if you measured each cell with a volt meter, they might actually be closer.

-- Gary

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Yeah, that makes sense, I have been scratching my head though, because I switch the connectors around and the batteries around, and STILL it has cells 8 - 11 as the highest, but maybe it just automatically assigns the higher number to the cells it's reading as higher?

So, I am guessing the connectors you are building will solve this problem, and will make it easy to say charge 14S consisting of 2 4S packs and one 6S pack?

If so, do you have a price for these yet?

Thanks!

 

[GGoodrum]

I don't have a specific 4s+4s+6s connection solution, but you could do that easy enough with some JST-XH connectors from Digikey, and some perf board from Radio Shack.

I did, however, finally finish the new 12s charging harness kit instructions, and have now included the new kits on my site here: http://www.tppacks.com/products.asp?cat=26. Here's what a complete package looks like:



There are basically three options provided, the 12s charging harness kit by itself, a combo package with a 2x6s LiPo LVC/parallel adapter kit and then an "ultimate" combo that includes the Hyperion EOS1420iNET3 14s balancing charger. This last package deal offers the most savings, as I won't get in trouble with the Hyperion distributor because the "price" of the charger is hidden.

This finally completes my quest for a simple "one plug" charging and balancing solution for a typical 12s LiPo setup. In addition, cell-level low voltage protection is included, which makes this package equivalent to a full-blown 12s BMS. The only difference is that you don't have to carry around the heat-generating balancing portion. This has always been my preference, especially for LiPo setups, but the messy connection issue was alway a show stopper, for me. This single plug charge/balance solution has been sort of a miniture holy grail quest for me, and I'm happy that it is finally over. I've now converted over both 12s3p packs on my bike, and have two new harnesses for my two 1420s.

-- Gary

 

[AussieJester]

The only difference is that you don't have to carry around the heat-generating balancing portion. This has always been my preference, especially for LiPo setups, but the messy connection issue was alway a show stopper, for me. This single plug charge/balance solution has been sort of a miniture holy grail quest for me, and I'm happy that it is finally over.

AmeN ... Thankyou for making me/us aware of this Mr GGoodrum, i couldn't be happier with my one plug charge and balance setup works a treat. I have never been a fan of an on board BMS, just one more piece of electronics to fail and possibly leave me stranded on the roadside. This IMO is the best LiPO charging/balancing setup to date hands down.

KiM

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Gary,

This is a very easy way to build up to 20Ah packs, and provide cell-level low voltage protection at the same time,

Don't you mean up to 32AH packs? :
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=16228

Zippy Flightmax batteries deliver full capacity & discharge as well as being the best value batteries in the hobby market today!

Spec.
Capacity: 8000mAh
Voltage: 6S1P / 6 Cell / 22.2v
Discharge: 30C Constant / 40C Burst
Weight: 1256g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 172x69x52mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge plug: 5.5mm Bullet-connector (without housing)

 

[snowranger]

Good to see the harness on the website. A few questions. What is the rated cycle life on the molex connectors? Does the PCB increase that somehow?

 

[GGoodrum]

Don't you mean up to 32AH packs? :
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=16228

Zippy Flightmax batteries deliver full capacity & discharge as well as being the best value batteries in the hobby market today!

Spec.
Capacity: 8000mAh
Voltage: 6S1P / 6 Cell / 22.2v
Discharge: 30C Constant / 40C Burst
Weight: 1256g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 172x69x52mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge plug: 5.5mm Bullet-connector (without housing)

Yes, that's right, Mitch. I keep forgetting about these new 8Ah Zippys.

 

[GGoodrum]

Good to see the harness on the website. A few questions. What is the rated cycle life on the molex connectors? Does the PCB increase that somehow?

These are actually Amp/Tyco VAL-U-LOK connectors, not Molex. Anyway, I've been using these for years. They are very robust and make a very solid connection. I really haven't found anything in this size/form factor.

-- Gary

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I finally took the time to talk with Empire Hobby, if I understand they are the main importer of this charger to the US, they believe I have a defective charger so I will be sending it off soon to get replaced.

I am very happy that they are willing to replace the charger and their customer service is so good!

 

[GGoodrum]

Ugh, best laid plans...

It turns out Empire, the distributor, had a run on these chargers and now they are out. The next shipment is due in the 1st week of April. :x I'll re-enable them on my site when these are back in stock.

-- Gary

 

[Sacman]

Gary's boards and harnesses work great for a "one plug" charging and BMS replacement solution for my 12s8p (44.4v) 40Ah LiPo pack. I use his boards and 2 sets of harnesses and 2 Hyperion 1420i chargers... one set for home and the other set for for the office. After my long commutes to and from work I just connect the one single VAL-U-LOCK connector and start the charger. After 3 hours the pack is charged and balanced and I just unplug the VAL-U-LOCK connector. Like Gary said "one plug charge and balance solution! No muss... no fuss".

The only change I made was to make longer 3.5 ft section of the harness (the one between charger and VAL-U-LOCK connector. The added length allows me to leave the batteries on the bike and still connect to them for charging. Thanks for the elegant solution Gary!

Here's my ebike & charging station at work. Notice the short section of harness that I replaced with a longer 3.5ft secton.

I don't have a specific 4s+4s+6s connection solution, but you could do that easy enough with some JST-XH connectors from Digikey, and some perf board from Radio Shack.

I did, however, finally finish the new 12s charging harness kit instructions, and have now included the new kits on my site here: http://www.tppacks.com/products.asp?cat=26. This finally completes my quest for a simple "one plug" charging and balancing solution for a typical 12s LiPo setup. In addition, cell-level low voltage protection is included, which makes this package equivalent to a full-blown 12s BMS. The only difference is that you don't have to carry around the heat-generating balancing portion. This has always been my preference, especially for LiPo setups, but the messy connection issue was alway a show stopper, for me. This single plug charge/balance solution has been sort of a miniture holy grail quest for me, and I'm happy that it is finally over. I've now converted over both 12s3p packs on my bike, and have two new harnesses for my two 1420s.

-- Gary

 

[David Bartlett]

Would this charger be able to charge a 48v20ah pack? Like 12s4p all in one go? It's a little un-clear to me if it can. Thanks.

 

[snowranger]

Yes it can. Actually you can go up to 14s. Just parallel connect each 12s section both power leads and balance leads. Series connect the power leads, and plug those directly in to the charger. Plug each 6s paralleled balance adapter into the A and B section of the charger.

 

[wineboyrider]

I think I am having the same problem as light cycle? I have used the charger 4 times to charge my 6s packs (I don't have the 12s wire harness yet) and now the charger only recognizes 4 cells through the wiring harness? I split up my lipo packs and tested every wire and connection with my volt meter and it's totally fine. I can charge it with my other charger no problem..

 

[E-racer]

WOW....! Your kit is exactly what I planned on doing myself...! I cant buy the stuff to do it for $220 though so you've got me sold!

 

[wesnewell]

Just got my 1420i and I'm a little confused on how to hook it up to the lipo I've got coming, two 5s, one 4s, hooked in series for 14s. Selecting a 14s pack was simple enough, but i don't know how to connect the balance connectors. Looks like it could be done by splitting the 4s balance leads in two and connecting each of them along with the 5s packs. Is that right, and where would I get such an adapter? As an alternative, can I charge the whole set in series, and only connect balance leads to 2 of the packs, and rotate them with each charge. Or balance them separately every month or so and just charge the set without the balance leads in between.