Hyperion EOS 1420i NET3 14s Balance Charger...

[GGoodrum]

I just want to clarify something, as I keep getting asked about a discount for E-S members. First of all, I haven't sold a single one of these to anybody who wasn't an E-S member. Most importantly, though, I need to point out that the "combo" deal has a big discount built-in. I really don't make anything on these. In fact, I actually lose a little, due to the fact I didn't figure the shipping costs right. I get charged extra for doing drop shipping, and so the meager $10 I was planning to make on these deals has gone away, and then some.

Anyway, the full price for the three items these would be $179 + $55 + $25, or $259. I think $220 is a pretty fair discount. In fact, it may be too much. The price will probably have to go up a bit. I'll leave it alone, for now, but please, no more discount requests.

-- Gary

 

[Philistine]

For any other owners of this charger reading this thread, thought I would make a quick note. I asked a few posts ago about a problem I was having getting a message "Battery output connection error". I read up on the RC forums and discovered the problem. My anderson connectors had been getting slightly pitted from connecting and disconnecting (this was on my 36V bike, so I don't use a precharge resistor on that bike). The pitting was so minor you could barely see it, but as soon as I replaced the Andersons with new ones I stopped getting the message. Apparantly these chargers are extremely sensitive to anything other than a perfect connection. Reading on RC forums this is a common issue, which is how I discovered the solution, just letting everyone else know in case they encounter the same problem. Cheers, Phil.

 

[rscamp]

...just letting everyone else know in case they encounter the same problem. Cheers, Phil.

Good on ya!

 

[GGoodrum]

Good tip.

One of the advantages of using the single plug harness setup is that in addition to the balancer cell connections, it also has the main +/- charge leads. On the pack end, these are permanently attached to the pack, in parallel with the discharge leads so you wouldn't have the same sort of issue.

-- Gary

 

[Philistine]

Without hammering the issue (I am only noting it as it has caused me much drama, and I want to help anyone else avoid it). Last night after cutting and replacing the andersons it charged. Then I got to work, went to charge, same message. So I went and bought some contact cleaner which did nothing. Then I read some more on RC forums. So I then got the tip (which the poster who answered my first post actually suggested could be the problem), I turned the amps down on the charger and it charged. I am using proper purpose built RC PSUs, which are 30amps and capably of 26V. They usually work fine, but I think what the problem is, is that as you increase the amp/current on the charger, its sensitivity to resistance increases.

It's a long story, but the way this bike is setup, i have a lot of long wires and I don't use a precharge resistor, so I think I get a bit of pitting as well (only 36V).

Anyway after turning down the amps on the charger it seems fine, so I found that interesting. The RC forums are filled with other people having the exact same problem I am. It seems the Hyperion (as a safety measure, so it is a good thing) is very sensitive to resistance.

Cheers.

 

[hillzofvalp]

I just wanted to remind those of you who balance up to 14S: 15-pin D-sub connectors rated at 5A work great. Just be sure to put the male end on the pack so as to prevent shorts.

 

[El_Steak]

I noticed on the hyperion web sitethat a firmware was released on April 4th for the 1420i.

There's not much info on the site other than this:

Upgrade primarily for SuperDuo and 1420i for ECDS, with minor ECDS improvements for all other EOS chargers

Did anybody try it? notice any difference with the previous firmware?

 

[dbaker]

What is ECDS?

 

[Jethro56]

EOS Control and Data Suite (Using a PC to control your charger Via USB Port)

 

[dbaker]

Thanks

 

[Partycat]

I just wanted to remind those of you who balance up to 14S: 15-pin D-sub connectors rated at 5A work great. Just be sure to put the male end on the pack so as to prevent shorts.

Would this include "radioshack" generic pins?

I want to share my tale of stupidity here.

I received the charging harness kit, but, there's a bit of a difference between mine and the pictured ones and directions. The ValULok connector is not a right angle connector, but, instead is flat. This made referencing the pictures and such quickly rather difficult. Well, somewhere along the way what I must have done is installed the connector upside down. The PCB is completely rectangular, so it wasn't as though the orientation of the thing would make it obvious that there was a problem. I assembled the whole thing with some minor difficulties on the pins. It's at this point that I want to point out again what we all know - always use the right tool for the right job. I do not have a crimper for these (I have the 'DB' style) and I do not have an insertion/removal tool. Both of these would have been invaluable.

Failing to properly crimp the pins meant I used the ol' jewler's screwdriver to insert them. But, this wasn't in itself terrible, it just resulted in a less than proper insertion.

So... I figure, hey, looks good, diagram seems to line up . I had already shrunk and wrapped the PCB side, so, again, in my hurry, I failed to notice it wasn't lining up right. I attached the cable to the charger, turned it on, attached the LVC board. Grabbed a pack, and went to plug it in. It took about a second before there was a sizzling and a burning smell, and I ripped it off. The trace out from the #2 balance lead had burned up.

I don't know what sort of current that was pulling, but, what I now know had happened was that the #1 and #2 balance lead pins shorted through the cable. Fortunately, it was that which burned up, and the pack appears undamaged. Of course, hearing enough stories about this, I fully expect it to explode in my face overnight. It is living in the oven in a LiPo bag, although, given the terrible quality of this apartment, the metal in the oven is probably flammable. I'll check on it before I go to bed for any puffing, but, it doesn't appear there is a problem. I'm not sure what the current capacity of the PCB trace is. I'm going to guess it's fairly low.

SO. Now that I've identified my major screw-up, I started to pop out the "pins" until I realized that I had just crushed and ruined several of them. I do not believe this will be salvagable, I think there were four extra pins. Maybe if I'm careful I can pull it off, but, I need the removal tool, and I don't know if the "DB" tool will work.

So, this all is rather lame. I repaired the trace on the LVC with some solder, lacking a conductive pen. I know that board works, well, it worked before, and I estimate it should be fine. Of note, using the wire leads that come with the charger leave you without anything to charge your batteries with until you replace that cable. I will grab some banana connectors and make up a banana/APP cable tomorrow so I can charge individually anyways.

I figure given the number of newer posters querying about LiPo recently, someone else may make this same error , but, with a worse turnout, so, be careful!

I will update if my apartment burns down I guess

 

[Andje]

just want to make sure i have this right.
I have a 24s3p setup wired permanently in series for 100v. I have the four 22v groups balance taps paralleled so that i have 4 balance taps total. I would plug two of them into the hyperion for 14s and then a positive and negative from those two 22v batts leaving them in series with each other on the charger. They can also remain in series with the other two batteries right? And then i would swap the charger over to the other two batts once the first two are charged, again they need a positive in and out, but technically the positive in could be the negative out from the previous connection couldn't it?
just want to avoid smoke; this is what i understood from gary's first post though.

 

[Philistine]

They can also remain in series with the other two batteries right?

This part of your post confuses me. You would need to break the series connection between the two packs (ie, split your 24S pack into two 12S packs). Otherwise when you are charging, the charger will see 12S balance taps, but be charging into a 24S pack.

The series connection that I break in my 20S pack (ie the series connection joining the two 10S4P packs into one 20S4P pack), is the same connection I use to charge each pack (ie, I break the positive/negative series connection between the packs, and each of these are the charge point for the respective positive/negative input on each respective 10S pack). Does that make sense?

I would have thought that the only way you could charge the unbroken 24S pack would be if you networked your two chargers, isn't that right?

 

[Andje]

i thought so too, but if you read the very first post in this topic gary talks about keeping it all as 24s. maybe he did use two chargers as his final solution but im pretty sure he says the pictures are all of him using only one.
i guess im confused, but i do know and understand the splitting of the battery down to two 12 packs, each with two 6s balance taps, and with one charger i will charge two 12s sequentially then reconnect them in series for 100v again.

 

[El_Steak]

Just add another set of connectors on each 12s subpack and charge through these. This way you can leave the whole pack connected in 24s while charging the 12s subpacks seperately (or simultaneously if you have 2 chargers). Thats what i do with my 24s3p setup. I think thats what Gary does as well.

 

[Philistine]

I didn't know you could do that. So if you plug the balance taps of one 12S subpack in, and then have spare leads coming off that same 12S subpack (which is still series connected to another 12S subpack), you can balance charge just that 12S subpack (despite it being series connected to another 12S subpack)?

The reason I am confused, is I would have thought the charging current going into the 12S subpack would "bleed" to the other 12S subpack that it is series connected to (and because that other 12S subpack is not being monitored at the cell level, it would be being blind or dumb charged). Or am I confused about what you are saying? If not, how is it that the current doesn't flow from one 12S subpack to the otther that it is series connected to? That is the bit I am confused about. But my understanding of electricital matters is dangerous at best.

 

[Andje]

ok so i think i am NOT confused then . If i have a positive in, then my two 6s in series then a negative out, placing a 50v source accross those in and out would charge the 12s pack by itself. You basically isolate the charging batteries by placing the charge current across only one section at a time.

 

[El_Steak]

I didn't know you could do that. So if you plug the balance taps of one 12S subpack in, and then have spare leads coming off that same 12S subpack (which is still series connected to another 12S subpack), you can balance charge just that 12S subpack (despite it being series connected to another 12S subpack)?

Yes, that is what I do.

I have 2 identical 12s3p subpacks that I carry in panniers and connect in series while on the bike. This is one of them.

As you can see, the huge anderson connectors on 8AWG wire are the main discharge leads which are always in series and connected to the controller when the packs are on the bike (most off the time).

The gray DB25 connector has 14 pins for all the balance leads, 8 pins for the main charging leads (4+ and 4-) and the 3 remaining pins are used to connect the temperature sensor of the Hyperion 1420i inside the pack (to shut down the charger if anything would get hot inside the box).

When I need to charge, I just plug in my 2 hyperion chargers to their respective DB25s and press start. That's it, nothing else to plug/unplug.

You can do the same thing by individually plugging in the charge leads and both balance taps, but be aware that you must plug in the balance taps in the proper socket (A and B) or your going to get really sckewed up readings on one side which could be dangerous when charging. There's a great explanation for that in this PDF:

http://www.hyperion-eu.com/public/manuals/1420inet_connection_guide.pdf

The reason I am confused, is I would have thought the charging current going into the 12S subpack would "bleed" to the other 12S subpack that it is series connected to (and because that other 12S subpack is not being monitored at the cell level, it would be being blind or dumb charged). Or am I confused about what you are saying? If not, how is it that the current doesn't flow from one 12S subpack to the otther that it is series connected to? That is the bit I am confused about. But my understanding of electricital matters is dangerous at best.

I'll let the experts comment on that, my knowledge is also limited to the basics.

 

[Andje]

the thing that made me realise that the current doesnt flow is that of course my 4 6s subpacks are at different voltages adding up to the 100~. Otherwise over time everything would self balance.

 

[GGoodrum]

Yes, El_Steak is right. I have the 24s3p setup on my bike configured pretty much the same way. I have two 12s3p packs, permanently connected in series. Each of these packs has a single charge/balance plug. I have used two Hyperion chargers, to charge the whole 24s3p setup at once, but lately I've been using one of my chargers inside, to support BMS testing so I've been charging the bike's two 12s3p packs one at a time.

Anyway, charging/balancing half at a time works quite well.

-- Gary

 

[corkscrew]

My 1420i died last night.

I was 40 minutes into a storage charge using the TPPacks harness for my 12S2P 20Ah pack last night. I'm not sure if a breeze shot through the garage or what, but all of a sudden there was a spark and the 1420I started panic beeping. I looked up from my trike which I was working on (Battery packs and charger were on a work bench, awaiting final install). I powered it down, checked everything, couldn't find any signs of a short. I started the 1420I back up without the battery connected, and right after the boot up sequence the LCD faded to blank. The odd thing is you can still progress through the menus (keys still beep).

Already have an RMA form from Empire RC - but gads, what a let down.

 

[rscamp]

Ack! That sucks.

Where was the spark? Was the charger charging or discharging (to 60%)? What were you using as a power source?

Oh, and what cells are you using that you are able to get 20Ah from 12s2p?

 

[corkscrew]

Ack! That sucks.

Where was the spark? Was the charger charging or discharging (to 60%)? What were you using as a power source?

Oh, and what cells are you using that you are able to get 20Ah from 12s2p?

That's the thing, my attention was elsewhere when I heard the zap. The charger was discharging down to 60%. Last I looked I think it was discharging between 1-2amps. My power supply is a Meanwell 24V 500watt model. I'm really not sure what could have caused it - There's no exposed wiring on any of my connections - the TPPacks boards are insulated by a few layers of electrical tape, etc.

I will say that Empire RC (The USA Distributor for Hyperion) is a dream to work with. I called a number given to me by the store that sold me the charger (It's in Canada, so they referred me to Empire RC), and explained my issue. Within minutes I had an RMA form in my e-mail. It'll be going back @ lunch today.

Ah, I think I got the 2p part wrong. I always get the P # confused. I'm using 8 5A/h 6S Turnigy cells. Two sets of 4 paralleled together, and then connected together by a serial harness I made.

 

[El_Steak]

After a couple of months of use I just want to state how much I like those chargers. I have 2 of them with all-in-one DB-25 connectors and charging is a breeze. The TCS function is great, I set it to 95% and it charges at full current until the cells reach about 4.15V. The balancer than kicks in and whatever went a bit over 4.15 gets quickly shunted back.

With the iCharger I used before, getting the last bit of charging/balancing would take forever as the charger current was throttling way back when cell voltage reached over 4.1V and the puny balancer struggled to shunt the higher cells.

 

[dbaker]

What charging current are you getting and what is your supply voltage and power?