I did a gun-control petition
- Thread starter SniperGaulois
- Start date
NeilP
1 GW
Miles said:
Unfortunately that is based on the assumption that banning them would have meant he could have not got one. And as we have seen in the UK banning handguns has made no difference, so I don't see why in his case it would have made any difference either.
I am not saying that a complete ban of all guns and a removal of all weapons would not lead to a reduction, just saying that a ban and removal of them all form circulation would be impossible.
I live in Jersey, which was occupied by German forces during WWII. Even now, every now and then, a German SMG, or Luger, fully functioning is pulled out of an attic or old farm barn...60 years late.
I suppose Banning them now and the slow removal of them, and removal of all metal working tools and imprisonment of all gunsmiths and people with a knowledge to build them, a scouring of all libraries and paperwork and internet to remove all traces of how to build a weapon, may have a result in 50 to 100 years time. As long as we of course close all borders to stop further imports.
Nice idea in theory, but in practice..don't see a way to make it work that a criminal with murderous intent is not going to get around.
Wonder if the British Government will do the same for our e-bikes, including compensation for the time and effort spent, as well as costs involved and on going costs to keep us busy, give us another hobby..and cheap means of transport
grindz145
1 MW
Can this NOT be in general discussion. Thanks.
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
NeilP said:
FWIW, .223 is a military (specifically NATO) standard round, know here as the 5.56mm (which, funnily enough, is 0.223 inches). The M16, SA80A2, LSW, AR15, Bushmaster all use the same calibre round.
Also, FWIW, I ran the industrial liaison part of the SA80 re-manufacturing programme in the UK with Heckler & Koch in Oberndorf, so have a bit of first hand (as in having fired a few thousand rounds) knowledge of that particular assault rifle. I've also used an AR15, shooting coyote from the air in Idaho............
NeilP
1 GW
Well of course..assuming his mother..or anyone else he knows who owned one ..actually handed them in, and not just stuck them under the stairs//in the attic etc. I'd feel really aggrieved if I was asked to give up anything that I owned and paid for, legally, knowing that all the criminals out there, that the law was aimed at were keeping theirs.
it is not that I disagree with the principle..just that it would be impossible, and even if it were possible it would not solve the issue, killings would still happen.
As the saying goes..If guns are outlawed..Only outlaws will have guns"
it is not that I disagree with the principle..just that it would be impossible, and even if it were possible it would not solve the issue, killings would still happen.
As the saying goes..If guns are outlawed..Only outlaws will have guns"
NeilP
1 GW
Jeremy Harris said:
I know nothing about the round personally..(only that as you say the 5.56mm is the standard NATO round but the .223 caliber is NOT exactly the same. From what I read it is slightly different in length, so you can chamber the shorter round in the longer, but not the other way around. If you try then there is a possibility of the bolt not fully locking, but closing enough for the weapon to fire. Rather like being able to chamber a 38Sp in a 357mag chamber, but not the other way around. Only difference is that the length difference between 223 and 5.56 is not so great.
As I say..this is just what i have read this evening while browsing around the subject
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/
When I read the caliber was .223, I initially thought 5.56, and immediately (cynically ) thought the change was similar to the use of 100, instead of 9mm or 45
But anyway, the reason I mentioned it was because netpronix had said that he had not used as Assault weapon, and I was trying to point out why I could see there could have been this misunderstanding of what he used.
To me an AR-15 5.56mm NATO calibre weapon would sound like an Assault weapon, but a 'Bushmaster .223 Remington' just sound like a hunting rifle. Looks the same , near enough the same round, but sounds like it has been de-militarised for as much a reason as a marketing ploy as to get around some ban on Military weapons
liveforphysics
100 TW
Miles said:
So, at the DEA (federal level) and state level in the US spends about $40,000,000,000, that's $40 Billion dollars, as in, enough money for 40,000 people to all get a million bucks. That's a lot of money. And they've been spending a similar quantity of money towards preventing this all ready illegal to have items from being available in our country for close to 3 decades now.
And yet... Anyone, even a 13yo kid who swipes a $20 out of his mom's purse, can go buy whatever drug he wants, likely without even needing to leave his Jr. High. What has the war on drugs accomplished? It created a huge group of cartels doing terrible violent things, and it ensures the drugs that kid buys at his Jr. High have been stepped-on (cut) by all sorts different things from various folks in a long black-market chain. (unless he is buying plant-matter or pharms, then it's unlikely to be cut)
Anyways, point being, waste half a trillion bucks bucks over 2-3 decades trying to get rid of availability of something, and yet one can still go buy anything anyone could want in any large city one happens to be in, for maybe an hour of effort.
With a cheesey DIY rapid-proto machine and a section of steel pipe and a good drill press you can make a throw-away full-auto gun that holds together good enough to fire through a couple magizines.
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120727-first-3d-printed-ar-15-gun-has-a-successful-test-firing.html
The idea you can ban something that the world already has a life-time supply of ready-made in in the wrong hands already is insane. All you could ever hope to do is get the honest law-abiding folks (who aren't the problem to have any sort of gun) to turn-in there guns to be destroyed. Just like when they ban a drug, it stops somebodies law-fearing Mom from trying it, it just increases appeal, price, and availability to the cartel folks who can't make a living on legit/legal products.
NeilP
1 GW
Perfectly put..short and succinct..in a way I never could :lol:
StudEbiker
100 kW
Yes, but fruitlessly spending $40B to stop something that can't be stopped while further eroding everyone's individual liberties will be a nice show of solidarity to the parents. 
C'mon LFP have a heart man. :wink:
C'mon LFP have a heart man. :wink:
StudEbiker said:Yes, but fruitlessly spending $40B to stop something that can't be stopped while further eroding everyone's individual liberties will be a nice show of solidarity to the parents.
C'mon LFP have a heart man. :wink:
:lol:
Hey, that's all fine and dandy if the friends and family of the shooter could pitch in a nice 40 billion themselves and ask the government to steal additional money from the entire country to pay for it.
Cough it up!
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
NeilP said:
Remington came up with .223, I believe, back when NATO was planning to go down from 7.62mm to 4.85mm (the original UK SA80 started out as a 4.85, part of the reason it was so crap originally was the gas port ended up in the wrong place because of this, and the NATO change to ball powder with its different burn time). Remington persuaded the US to adopt 0.223, and NATO ended up having to compromise and change the standard calibre to 5.56. Yes, the chambering is slightly different, but in practice .223 and and 5.56 rounds are pretty much interchangeable in most weapons.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Miles said:
40billion dollars and 30 years later and you could arrive at the point where the vast majority are only left in the hands of those who are the least law abiding and doing the most damage.
If you want to save peoples lives, IIRC, 1,000 people die daily in the US from preventable poor diet related health problems, another 1,000 die daily from smoking related diseases.
Grey beard
100 W
I grew up in rural America. We all had guns, most of them were long guns. Nobody got shot except for an elderly couple who were killed by robbers who were passing through the area and needed gas money. They were killed so they couldnt call the police. We had guns in our cars at school, and sometimes there were guns being refinished in shop class that had been brought on the school bus. I dont pretend to have the answer, but feel this is not about,guns, but about the heart. Life isn't as precious as it was.
I wish that the media, and the Polls that crave the media attention, wouldnt stretch the truth as far as they do. There are very few "automatic" weapons outside law inforcement and military. The guns they will end up banning are semi auto and will probably include many hunting rifles as well.
When they come to take them away, it'll be the legit, registered guns first. Show up in armor, probably with dogs, and wanting to have a look around while they're there. All the while the killings in Chicago and DC won't change a bit. We can only pray the Justice Dept has quit giving away AK47s.
I will still have my guns as I've had them long before there was registration. Although they probably have me on record because of this post. One of my bolt action rifles will prolly someday be called a "sniper rifle" because of its <1min of angle accuracy to 300 yards, yet is over 60 yrs old. Someday it'll be illegal. They wouldn't want something like that to be in the hands of someone like me.
I wish that the media, and the Polls that crave the media attention, wouldnt stretch the truth as far as they do. There are very few "automatic" weapons outside law inforcement and military. The guns they will end up banning are semi auto and will probably include many hunting rifles as well.
When they come to take them away, it'll be the legit, registered guns first. Show up in armor, probably with dogs, and wanting to have a look around while they're there. All the while the killings in Chicago and DC won't change a bit. We can only pray the Justice Dept has quit giving away AK47s.
I will still have my guns as I've had them long before there was registration. Although they probably have me on record because of this post. One of my bolt action rifles will prolly someday be called a "sniper rifle" because of its <1min of angle accuracy to 300 yards, yet is over 60 yrs old. Someday it'll be illegal. They wouldn't want something like that to be in the hands of someone like me.
StudEbiker
100 kW
Miles said:
As the greatest atrocities committed in the history of the world have been committed by governments against their own populations that were unable to effectively resist, yeah, I'd say it is a great liberty to have. :wink:
StudEbiker
100 kW
Miles said:
The ability to kill is very different. However, the "do gooder" nanny state attitude is exactly the same.
StudEbiker
100 kW
Miles said:
And the VAST majority of them never even get fired in a day, much less get used in a crime, and even fewer yet are used in murders, and then a microscopic portion of them are used in mass killings.
Kinda says something about how responsible this country is as gun owners doesn't it?
But by all means, a few being used by lunatics every couple of years or so...... hell let's take them away from everybody!
liveforphysics
100 TW
Whats depressing and scary is the amazingly terrible acts of mass killing the people in uniforms do to each other with guns, because of the twisted things the governments brainwash into them, somehow warping and justifying them into meeting in large groups in various unfortunate places to practice some socialist communal living funded on our dime before meeting up to kill each other.
I also saw that more Americans were killed by the civil war (our own people murdering themselves, sometimes family members) than all Americans kills in WW1 and WW2 combined.
Of all the places guns should or shouldnt be, the place where they've very clearly caused the most harm and massive scale terrible unfathomable acts is when they are in the hands of people in uniforms following orders.
I also saw that more Americans were killed by the civil war (our own people murdering themselves, sometimes family members) than all Americans kills in WW1 and WW2 combined.
Of all the places guns should or shouldnt be, the place where they've very clearly caused the most harm and massive scale terrible unfathomable acts is when they are in the hands of people in uniforms following orders.
