Hi, I've got a quick question. I have a Phoenix to brute 72v motor on a mountain bike, and have been riding for about a year. Over the past several months, I have had continual flat tires. I've had probably three on the back, and three on the front. This last go-round, I took A special time in care in putting the tube. Are used baby powder, pumped it up to 20 pounds for a while before pumping to the full weight. And yet today I have another flat. I'm thinking about getting the airless solid inner tubes. Any suggestions on whether not this works with an E bike? Or any suggestions on what might be happening. Also, the last time I ran my fingers through the inside of the tire and didn't find any pictures or sharp edges that I can tell
I keep having flat tires
- Thread starter hj2095
- Start date
LockH
1 PW
Wish I could help you/source your problem... but recently had inner tubes constantly leaking. My fix?
Stan's latex was the fastest, cheapest "fix" I've ever used. LBS uses it for the rims on tubeless tire bikes, but so far has worked 100% for me on tubed tires.
Cheers
PS:
http://windinmyface.com/gear-tires-StansNoTubes.html
(valve-removal tool on my list of "Stuff to Get".)
Stan's latex was the fastest, cheapest "fix" I've ever used. LBS uses it for the rims on tubeless tire bikes, but so far has worked 100% for me on tubed tires.
Cheers
PS:
http://windinmyface.com/gear-tires-StansNoTubes.html
(valve-removal tool on my list of "Stuff to Get".)
SlowCo
1 MW
hj2095 said:
Is you rim tape in good shape and covering all it should?:
http://www.landrys.com/about/rim-tape-basics-pg197.htm
If you investigate the inner tube where are the holes when you have a flat? That should indicate where it is coming from.
I had the same problem on my non motorcycle tired bikes until I started using the following formula: THICK downhill racing tubes, Mr. Tuffy Tire liners, and a butt load of tire slime. It has drastically increased my riding time between flats.
Have you inspected the tube each time to make sure it is not the same cause, like a burr in the rim or snakebites from underinflation? Are you replacing the tube every time or have you tried patches to see if it is the same spot?
Have you inspected the tube each time to make sure it is not the same cause, like a burr in the rim or snakebites from underinflation? Are you replacing the tube every time or have you tried patches to see if it is the same spot?
Those are all good ideas. I have not been looking at the inner tubes, just replacing them. But on this go-round, I will try and find out exactly where it's coming from. I did run the inner portion of the tire with my fingers in visually inspected, and didn't see any issues. I like the idea of the liner though. I'll let you know. I guess nobody is advocating those airless tubes?
aroundqube
10 kW
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2012
- Messages
- 601
Same problem on both wheels could be tires picking up something that you do not see or feel. Try going around the inside of the tire and rim with a cotton ball to see if it snags on anything.
motomech
10 MW
Solid inner tubes weigh a lot and kill the ride and handling.hj2095 said:
If you want to spend the money, upgrade to high quality tubeless tires and run them that way. You can use Stan's kit's
or save some money going "getto style"
http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/g ... ks.240026/
Lurkin
100 kW
tubed/tubeless has been debated already here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75723
I've used both Mr Tuffy's tyre liners and Hong Kong Cheapo tyre liners from Ebay for ~10. Both were a success resulting in a significant reduction in punctures. No slime or thicker tube required. However, they are a contested issue. Usually suggestions to use these are met with "they bite through the tube where the liner overlaps and are therefore rubbish". I have read people with road bikes choose to deliberately put a tube patch where the overlap occurs to avoid this. However, I've never had this issue with either type of liner with either assisted or unassisted bike so its a solution for a non existent problem. I use these and consider them a superior solution as they are cheap and can be used regardless of tyre.
Alternatives to using tyre liners:
- Use a more durable tyre, Schwable Marathon comes to mind. Motorcycle tyre is an alternative. They are usually either a more expensive tyre or are expensive to change to (MC). Weight is also increased here.
- Slime. Requires replacement over time and kinda messy solution.
- Thicker tube. Weight and expense.
- Alternative route. May not be possible.
I've used both Mr Tuffy's tyre liners and Hong Kong Cheapo tyre liners from Ebay for ~10. Both were a success resulting in a significant reduction in punctures. No slime or thicker tube required. However, they are a contested issue. Usually suggestions to use these are met with "they bite through the tube where the liner overlaps and are therefore rubbish". I have read people with road bikes choose to deliberately put a tube patch where the overlap occurs to avoid this. However, I've never had this issue with either type of liner with either assisted or unassisted bike so its a solution for a non existent problem. I use these and consider them a superior solution as they are cheap and can be used regardless of tyre.
Alternatives to using tyre liners:
- Use a more durable tyre, Schwable Marathon comes to mind. Motorcycle tyre is an alternative. They are usually either a more expensive tyre or are expensive to change to (MC). Weight is also increased here.
- Slime. Requires replacement over time and kinda messy solution.
- Thicker tube. Weight and expense.
- Alternative route. May not be possible.
I have never had a liner cause a tube puncture after many, many thousands of miles. I have had best luck with hookworms and big apple bike tires. Other people have sworn by cutting off the sidewall of spent tires and using them as the tire liner.
cwah
100 MW
Same issue!
nutnspecial
10 MW
"haven't been looking at the inner tubes. . . ." WUT? That's the #1 thing to start fixing your problem sir.
Besides above, my thoughts: I think you, and most will be happiest with a good heavy bike tire, good heavy tube, and a shot of slime brand sealant inside. I haven't used liners, but they'd have to help also imo. Like the idea of using an old sidewall.
Step up in durability and puncture resistance is moped tires and rims. Not as popular because not really bike, and not really light, although price can be similar after you've built the wheels.
Besides above, my thoughts: I think you, and most will be happiest with a good heavy bike tire, good heavy tube, and a shot of slime brand sealant inside. I haven't used liners, but they'd have to help also imo. Like the idea of using an old sidewall.
Step up in durability and puncture resistance is moped tires and rims. Not as popular because not really bike, and not really light, although price can be similar after you've built the wheels.
paracidium
1 mW
Get a decent tyre inflated correctly and you won't look back. I've been using Maxxis Holy Rollers for years and can't remember the last time I had a flat! Plus they roll quickly and have decent grip off road due to the inverted knobbly pattern.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/maxxis-holy-roller-mtb-tyre/rp-prod78370
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/maxxis-holy-roller-mtb-tyre/rp-prod78370
cwah
100 MW
What protect better against flat between a moped 2.25" tyre:
http://www.tirendo.co.uk/continental-contigo!-2-1-4-17-39j-55242.html?gclid=CjwKEAiAuKy1BRCY5bTuvPeopXcSJAAq4OVszs6rBQRioNkhQjTqxqgASp08QfNAaD-p6CJx83RP8hoCE-3w_wcB&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=pricecomp&utm_campaign=55242&wmc=1019
And maybe the best in class marathon plus with its 5mm of plastic protection?
http://www.schwalbe.com/gb/tour-reader/marathon-plus.html
http://www.tirendo.co.uk/continental-contigo!-2-1-4-17-39j-55242.html?gclid=CjwKEAiAuKy1BRCY5bTuvPeopXcSJAAq4OVszs6rBQRioNkhQjTqxqgASp08QfNAaD-p6CJx83RP8hoCE-3w_wcB&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=pricecomp&utm_campaign=55242&wmc=1019
And maybe the best in class marathon plus with its 5mm of plastic protection?
http://www.schwalbe.com/gb/tour-reader/marathon-plus.html
dogman dan
1 PW
Seems like we still don't know how you are flatting the tires.
Assuming it's not just thorns, I'd suggest an upgrade to a better quality tube. In my area, it's Bottranger tubes from the good local bike shop. They are just thicker, especially around the stem. Similarly priced pre slime tubes from walmart were very thin at the stem, and ripped out a lot.
Speaking of ripped out stems, several times now, my wifes bikes with no motor have had issues with the stock bottranger tires the bike came with. Just a too loose fit, they kept slipping around and then the stem would rip, even with better tubes.
What pressure are you running? If you are riding around with motorcycle power, you can't pump your tire to 30psi. You need the max, at least 60 or so. With that much motor power, you are going to have tires and tubes squirming around like mad if you don't pump it up.
You can ride with lots of shit in your tire, if you have enough slime, or stans, and keep it pumped up. I ride around all the time with 50 to 100 huge mesquite thorns in my off road bikes. But they do leak down overnight, so I have to fill every day to ride like that.
On all my bikes, the routine for me is the thick tube, and double the amount of chunky ATV formula slime than they say to use on a bike. Double the amount, because then it gets better coverage on the side of the tube, and over time, it does leak out with 100 holes in there.
Assuming it's not just thorns, I'd suggest an upgrade to a better quality tube. In my area, it's Bottranger tubes from the good local bike shop. They are just thicker, especially around the stem. Similarly priced pre slime tubes from walmart were very thin at the stem, and ripped out a lot.
Speaking of ripped out stems, several times now, my wifes bikes with no motor have had issues with the stock bottranger tires the bike came with. Just a too loose fit, they kept slipping around and then the stem would rip, even with better tubes.
What pressure are you running? If you are riding around with motorcycle power, you can't pump your tire to 30psi. You need the max, at least 60 or so. With that much motor power, you are going to have tires and tubes squirming around like mad if you don't pump it up.
You can ride with lots of shit in your tire, if you have enough slime, or stans, and keep it pumped up. I ride around all the time with 50 to 100 huge mesquite thorns in my off road bikes. But they do leak down overnight, so I have to fill every day to ride like that.
On all my bikes, the routine for me is the thick tube, and double the amount of chunky ATV formula slime than they say to use on a bike. Double the amount, because then it gets better coverage on the side of the tube, and over time, it does leak out with 100 holes in there.
Leebolectric
1 kW
loosened spokes can poke a tube.
leftover thorn/intrusion in tire?
bad batch of tubes? try different brand?
what kind of punctures?
if you reinflate the punctured tube, and find the hole (submerge in water to find small ones) what does the hole look like?
is the hole in the same spot on multiple tubes?
is it a round hole or a small straight tear? (hole=thorn, tear=pinchflat)
leftover thorn/intrusion in tire?
bad batch of tubes? try different brand?
what kind of punctures?
if you reinflate the punctured tube, and find the hole (submerge in water to find small ones) what does the hole look like?
is the hole in the same spot on multiple tubes?
is it a round hole or a small straight tear? (hole=thorn, tear=pinchflat)
dogman dan said:
This is my experience as well. All but the really large punctures ATV slime has eventually sealed if I put way more than recommended in there and keep pumping pressure back up and riding to sling it around until the right clump gets stuck in the puncture and dries. Some complain about it being messy, but I have never found changing a bike tube to be a clean process between the road grime, chain grease, dirty ground I am sitting on, etc. LOL I like having the green squirting out because it is very easy to tell exactly where the puncture is on the tube and you can even see the shape. The one thing I will fault it for is that it makes it more difficult to patch a tube if you are the type who does or needs to do that for whatever reason.
Get the gallon jug for ATV's and squirt way more in your tire than you think you should!
It is an ebike so you don't need the lightest wheel possible and I promise it won't throw off your balance.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
Knowing how and where your tube got punctured would help. a puncture is easy to prevent. A pinch flat, either from installation, or a tire compressing the tube against the rim would be another issue. there can also be spoke punctures, burs on the rim, or even a rim flexing issue where a pinned rim takes a bite out of the tube. Tire liners can sometimes wear through a tube.
Also, a box of a peel and stick patches is $1, and permanently fixes your tube, so taking the time to find the hole makes good sense.
Good rim + Good tire + Thick DH tube + Tire slime = near zero flats.
This myth about tubeless having fewer flats is just that, a myth. The special sealant prevents some flats, but the tubeless sealant is designed to make the wheel air tight, not fill punctures. It isn't going to work as well as a sealant designed to plug punctures. Additionally, the tire alone will be thinner than a tire + tube.
A Maxxis 26"x2.5" Hookworm Tire + Q-Tubes 2.25mm DH tube + 4oz of ATV slime has been my choice on my Kona. in 9 years, I've gone many tens of thousands of miles, and never had a flat. I've pulled nails, screws, and glass shards out of the tire and not had a flat. I've taken many shortcuts right through briar patches with 2" Texas sized thorns and not had a flat. I've changed worn out tires and found the bare tube to resemble an old pin cushion, and then reused the tube without flats. This might not be the best combo for your needs, but it should work with any heavy duty tire.
Also, a box of a peel and stick patches is $1, and permanently fixes your tube, so taking the time to find the hole makes good sense.
Good rim + Good tire + Thick DH tube + Tire slime = near zero flats.
This myth about tubeless having fewer flats is just that, a myth. The special sealant prevents some flats, but the tubeless sealant is designed to make the wheel air tight, not fill punctures. It isn't going to work as well as a sealant designed to plug punctures. Additionally, the tire alone will be thinner than a tire + tube.
A Maxxis 26"x2.5" Hookworm Tire + Q-Tubes 2.25mm DH tube + 4oz of ATV slime has been my choice on my Kona. in 9 years, I've gone many tens of thousands of miles, and never had a flat. I've pulled nails, screws, and glass shards out of the tire and not had a flat. I've taken many shortcuts right through briar patches with 2" Texas sized thorns and not had a flat. I've changed worn out tires and found the bare tube to resemble an old pin cushion, and then reused the tube without flats. This might not be the best combo for your needs, but it should work with any heavy duty tire.
Lurkin
100 kW
Is this something:Drunkskunk said:
you have actually experienced
or are you repeating something you have heard
or are you applying logic rather than either of the above?
There are some pics of one instance of this (not all the way thru the tube yet , I think); in one of my build threads. I *think* it is in the CrazyBike2 thread, in a post or posts a few years back, but I don't remember exactly when, and it is a long thread.
IT could be from before that, on DayGlo Avenger, which is a shorter thread.... That is also where I tried airless tires on the rear (later tried a different one on the front of Delta Tripper, that experience in the DT thread).
IIRC it was leaving a wear mark on the side of the tube (rather than where the ends cross-over; don't recall having that problem), and I think it was most likely really caused by too low a pressure allowing tube to wiggle against the tire sidewall with teh liner between them as the liner was allowed to squirm it's way up away from the tread area. (can't say for sure, but it had been straight when installed, and when removed it was "squiggly", rather like a sine-wave, where some of it was still on the tread area and some was partway up the sidewalls here and there).
IT could be from before that, on DayGlo Avenger, which is a shorter thread.... That is also where I tried airless tires on the rear (later tried a different one on the front of Delta Tripper, that experience in the DT thread).
IIRC it was leaving a wear mark on the side of the tube (rather than where the ends cross-over; don't recall having that problem), and I think it was most likely really caused by too low a pressure allowing tube to wiggle against the tire sidewall with teh liner between them as the liner was allowed to squirm it's way up away from the tread area. (can't say for sure, but it had been straight when installed, and when removed it was "squiggly", rather like a sine-wave, where some of it was still on the tread area and some was partway up the sidewalls here and there).
Drunkskunk
100 GW
Lurkin said:
Yes, Yes, and Yes.
Yes, I've had the displeasure, I've also fixed flats for others causers by liners rubbing through. Yes, I'm "repeating" or rather, using other's anecdotes to my check my knowledge on the subject, and by finding that others have similar experiences, feel confident in my statement. And Yes, I'm applying logic to check the validity of my findings. That logic goes like this: "I have found holes and wear marks on tubes where they touch tire liners. I have felt the flexibility and stretch of tire liners first hand and can feel that they don't stretch as much as a tire or tube. I have felt the sharpish edge that many of these liners have for my self. I can see how a potential exists for differential stretching of the different materials could cause the materials to rub together. Conclusion: the tire liner wore through the tube."
Since I have read anecdotal reports of other people on this forum stating that they use tire liners with success, and since I've found most people on this forum are apparently honest and trustworthy in their reporting of facts, I can also conclude that tire liners don't always cause holes in tubes. Therefor, I qualify my experience and logic check that Liners cause holes with the fact that some people don't have this experience, and make my statement: "Tire liners can (meaning it is possible) sometimes (meaning not always) wear through a tube".
Does that satisfy your questions?
Drunkskunk, how many miles did this take to happen in your experience?
I recently pulled out a tube with ~5k miles on it with a tire liner and did not see any marks. I will double check in better light tonight to be sure it was unmarred. What kind of setup where you running where you experienced this? I have only run tire liners on my onroad bikes and keep them at proper pressure and have not ran them at lower pressures where I could see this becoming more of a problem. Perhaps this is more specific to fat tires where you are running lower pressures and taking them offroad and there is significantly more deflection in the rolling tire...
I recently pulled out a tube with ~5k miles on it with a tire liner and did not see any marks. I will double check in better light tonight to be sure it was unmarred. What kind of setup where you running where you experienced this? I have only run tire liners on my onroad bikes and keep them at proper pressure and have not ran them at lower pressures where I could see this becoming more of a problem. Perhaps this is more specific to fat tires where you are running lower pressures and taking them offroad and there is significantly more deflection in the rolling tire...
nutnspecial
10 MW
cwah said:What protect better against flat between a moped 2.25" tyre:
http://www.tirendo.co.uk/continental-contigo!-2-1-4-17-39j-55242.html?gclid=CjwKEAiAuKy1BRCY5bTuvPeopXcSJAAq4OVszs6rBQRioNkhQjTqxqgASp08QfNAaD-p6CJx83RP8hoCE-3w_wcB&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=pricecomp&utm_campaign=55242&wmc=1019
And maybe the best in class marathon plus with its 5mm of plastic protection?
http://www.schwalbe.com/gb/tour-reader/marathon-plus.html
Wow, nice tire and promo. Hard question. Depends on the moped tire I guess. But they'd have to be at least very close for puncture resistance if the schwalbe wasn't better. A moped tire could be cheaper, run longer, and maybe be better @ pinch flats, but require a moped rim, be harder to change, and be heavier.
Whether tubeless would be better for the conditions dan and skunk are describing (hellraiser scenario) would be really interesting imo. Regardless, if you want to save money, I'd try their approach first when flats are an incurable ill. Obviously that should come after 'pinpointing' (pun
) the issue. Worked for me.
oatnet
1 MW
Don't know your duty cycle, mine is large rider and heavy eBikes on suburban street/beach path riding. Over the past decade I have logged tens of thousands of eBike miles, no flats yet. I use maxxis hookworms, kenda 2.25mm downhill tubes, and panaflex Kevlar liners. YMMV
-JD
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=11244
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=17342
-JD
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=11244
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=17342
Lurkin
100 kW
Drunkskunk said:
Yes thank you. On reflection I realize that post was pretty rude- apologies, that was not my intention. It's just a topic of interest to me, as by all rights, I should have had problems by now if liners were the issue. I've had none using both the branded product and the cheap nasty rip off and I've done nothing to prevent any issues either. So it confuses me to hear others have had problems and it's an issue where anecdote and real experience can be tricky to differentiate.
I don't think the issue is pressure related. I've used them on the current middrive bike with very low pressure without issue and on the road bike with high pressure neither with issues, except for minor lump on the road bike where the liner over lapped.
I haven't tried them with a hub motor yet, so perhaps that will be where they fail? It would have to be related to the hubs power and/or weight if it starts piercing the tunes.
It's interesting to hear others are using cut down used tyres as that would fix the lump of overlap and possibly also fix the stretch issues as well...
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