I will be voting for Bernie Sanders

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My wife and I voted for opposite sides in the primary today by mail, but by the time of the general election we always vote for the same candidates. :pancake: I was tempted to write in vote for Pat Paulsen for president, but I successfully resisted the urge. :lol:

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pat_paulsen.html

Now I'm thinking I should have wrote in a vote for Bozo the Clown. :p
Looks like he's running as a Republican.
BOZO.jpg
 
zombiess said:
speedmd said:
Rat, ever hear of a monopoly? Offshore tax havens? Bribery? Fascism? We are living it globally now.... at the hands of the corporate robber barons. They are making money the old fashioned way, stealing it.

Please provide some specifics of the corporate robber barons running monopolies. I hear this kind of generalized talk but rarely see specifics. I'm pretty familiar with the tax havens, but what incentive to are big corps given to stay in a higher tax country? I'm not saying it's correct, I just want to hear more than generalized rhetoric with nothing justifying it.

In our area as in many, we have no choice on power or energy delivery. No choice on cable. No choice on land lines (don't laugh). No real choices on health care. No real options on auto insurance.... The list goes on. Accidental? I was born at night, but it was not last night. :lol:
 
The most powerful use their money and power to lobby/fund Clinton AND Trump. Voting for either one will give you the same result.

[youtube]G3bn24qdZ7c[/youtube]
 
Ratking said:
Chalo said:
nicobie said:
As much as I think that the US can't afford him, I'm voted yesterday for Bernie.

Poorer nations than the USA have social Democratic governments, better median quality of life, and smaller deficits per capita.

What we can't afford here is corporate welfare and letting the rich skip out of paying what they owe. I'd include military spending, but that's just another kind of corporate welfare.


Tell me more about how the rich has an obligation the feed your lazy ass. "Paying what they owe", where do you get these ideas from?

And secondly, what nations with social democracy has it better?

Uhh, all of them? Pretty much all of the countries with high levels of education, free or heavily subsidised healthcare, low levels of governmental corruption, low crime and high employment and generally high *happiness* are unified by more 'left' leaning policies than the US. The rest of the world finds it bizarre that a cancer diagnosis could financially cripple your family or that a near useless college degree could leave you in debt for 20 years. For the wealthiest country on earth there are a LOT of shitty statistics directly attributable to social policies designed to heavily favour the wealthy over the masses. Everyone seems to think that one day they'll be rich and when they are frock giving a cent to anybody else. Reality is different, most poor will always be poor and yet they shoot down ideas that would actually make a real impact.

That really blows my mind.. People voting against their own interests. We see it time and time again, large groups of people voting against agendas specifically designed to help them because of an ideology purpotrated by those few that would be impacted financially. Do you earn >$130k a year? If not, then why the frock do you care? You only stand to benefit, along the majority of other people. This is the same logical progression as your 'frock taking my hard earned money' line of thinking, only now you're no longer spending your hard earned money on healthcare or college education.

I am happily willing to pay more tax in exchange for tangible societal benefit. I find it very strange how that's perceived in America.
 
Ohbse said:
Uhh, all of them? Pretty much all of the countries with high levels of education, free or heavily subsidised healthcare, low levels of governmental corruption, low crime and high employment and generally high *happiness* are unified by more 'left' leaning policies than the US. The rest of the world finds it bizarre that a cancer diagnosis could financially cripple your family or that a near useless college degree could leave you in debt for 20 years. For the wealthiest country on earth there are a LOT of shitty statistics directly attributable to social policies designed to heavily favour the wealthy over the masses. Everyone seems to think that one day they'll be rich and when they are frock giving a cent to anybody else. Reality is different, most poor will always be poor and yet they shoot down ideas that would actually make a real impact.

That really blows my mind.. People voting against their own interests. We see it time and time again, large groups of people voting against agendas specifically designed to help them because of an ideology purpotrated by those few that would be impacted financially. Do you earn >$130k a year? If not, then why the frock do you care? You only stand to benefit, along the majority of other people. This is the same logical progression as your 'frock taking my hard earned money' line of thinking, only now you're no longer spending your hard earned money on healthcare or college education.

I am happily willing to pay more tax in exchange for tangible societal benefit. I find it very strange how that's perceived in America.

So.much.wrong. I don't know where to start. I ask for substance and get this. Let me tell you something, nothing is free and never will be. I am living in Norway, one of the countries that is held high in regard to socialism. Do you know how shitty the services provided from the state is? Do you know how much we pay in to the medical care each year? We pay an average of 10500$ for health care and it is more and more popular to pay for private health insurance on the side. You really don't have a clue, the state will always suck compare to free private sector, this is a no-debatable fact. It is seen in theory as well as practice. You will find it ironic how many that wither away and die waiting for the free (10500$ health care yearly) in Norway. Just a clear cut sign of how bad it is. That is 367500$ for each persons lifespan just tossed at the free health care. People are so stupid that libertarianism should be enforced, so the people loving freedom could be protected from the leechers(thats you btw)

Second, I got my integrity, I don't want to live on others, even if it would benefit me. I am staggered of how bad the moral and ethics you guys have, must be the results of vegetarianism and egoism(not the good kind, the commie give me free stuff kind)
 
speedmd said:
zombiess said:
speedmd said:
Rat, ever hear of a monopoly? Offshore tax havens? Bribery? Fascism? We are living it globally now.... at the hands of the corporate robber barons. They are making money the old fashioned way, stealing it.

Please provide some specifics of the corporate robber barons running monopolies. I hear this kind of generalized talk but rarely see specifics. I'm pretty familiar with the tax havens, but what incentive to are big corps given to stay in a higher tax country? I'm not saying it's correct, I just want to hear more than generalized rhetoric with nothing justifying it.

In our area as in many, we have no choice on power or energy delivery. No choice on cable. No choice on land lines (don't laugh). No real choices on health care. No real options on auto insurance.... The list goes on. Accidental? I was born at night, but it was not last night. :lol:

I am promoting a free capitalistic world view. And free capitalism does not support monopoly, it is impossible. Monopoly is only possible with government. What you are describing is a symptom of crony capitalism and corrupt government. That is and will never be free capitalism. Understanding what causes the system we have today is the most important quality one can have in order to improve and make every bodies life better. But individual freedom is still the most important factor, without freedom, the human spirit will deteriorate. That is exactly what socialism is doing and countries in the eastern Europe is still struggling with the aftermath of the brain washing done by the socialists
 
Capitalism is never a free system, because those who prevail always corrupt it in their favor. That is an intrinsic quality of capitalism, not a breakdown. There is no such thing as "free" capitalism because the people who rise to the top are cheaters by their very nature.

When you use people's greed as a driving force for your economic system, you get all the side effects of unbridled greed.
 
Ratking said:
So.much.wrong. I don't know where to start. I ask for substance and get this. Let me tell you something, nothing is free and never will be. I am living in Norway, one of the countries that is held high in regard to socialism. Do you know how shitty the services provided from the state is? Do you know how much we pay in to the medical care each year? We pay an average of 10500$ for health care and it is more and more popular to pay for private health insurance on the side. You really don't have a clue, the state will always suck compare to free private sector, this is a no-debatable fact. It is seen in theory as well as practice. You will find it ironic how many that wither away and die waiting for the free (10500$ health care yearly) in Norway. Just a clear cut sign of how bad it is. That is 367500$ for each persons lifespan just tossed at the free health care. People are so stupid that libertarianism should be enforced, so the people loving freedom could be protected from the leechers(thats you btw)

Second, I got my integrity, I don't want to live on others, even if it would benefit me. I am staggered of how bad the moral and ethics you guys have, must be the results of vegetarianism and egoism(not the good kind, the commie give me free stuff kind)

I'm sorry you've clearly had a bad experience with your national healthcare, but the dollar figures you're talking about sound pretty reasonable. Healthcare costs lots, it's inevitable. $360k for a lifetime of healthcare? Bargain of the century compared to many other countries. See all the recent examples of people in the states having simple out patient surgery that end up costing >$60k for things like replacing the battery in their pacemaker for an alternative view.

I do not see how you determined I was a leecher. I said I was willing to pay more tax for a societal benefit. My wife and I are in the top few % of income with no dependants (I would be one of the ones directly impacted by Bernies proposal) and as such pay in a lot more in than we take out in services. The majority of population are the opposite, if you earn average wage and have two children your tax burden is effectively zero in NZ because of subsidized services for your family. This in turn leads to educated, healthy children who grow up making good choices. That's an outcome I'm happy to contribute towards.

The fact that some governments are ineffective or corrupt does not change the value of the ideas.

Ratking said:
I am promoting a free capitalistic world view. And free capitalism does not support monopoly, it is impossible. Monopoly is only possible with government. What you are describing is a symptom of crony capitalism and corrupt government. That is and will never be free capitalism. Understanding what causes the system we have today is the most important quality one can have in order to improve and make every bodies life better. But individual freedom is still the most important factor, without freedom, the human spirit will deteriorate. That is exactly what socialism is doing and countries in the eastern Europe is still struggling with the aftermath of the brain washing done by the socialists

Your fervant belief in free capitalism is out of touch with reality. Unregulated, unfettered 'true' capitalism tends to result in big fish eating all the other fish and forming a monopoly that beyond a certain scale is very, very difficult to overcome. See obvious examples discussed earlier where 10's of millions of americans lack real choice in companies that provide basic services. Corporations are not inherently evil, but they are inherently selfish - without some sort of external influence the inevitible direction of corporations is frequently out of touch with what's actually good for society.
 
For those who refuse to consider that the process is rigged against Sanders, check the following links out:

http://www.electionfraud2016.wordpress.com
https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/category/election-myths/

If you want some of the same info in an easy to digest video format, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmYYvZASoks

The discrepancy between the exit polls and the official vote count alone should be raising some serious questions about the integrity of the electoral process, especially considering that there is no way to audit the voting machines.

The evidence that the Democratic Primary is being rigged against Bernie Sanders in favor of Hitlery is overwhelming. (S)election rigging is nothing new in this nation's history. I'm not necessarily for Sanders. I was hoping Rand Paul would get somewhere, but of the Ds and Rs in the running that aren't Rand Paul, Sanders was certainly the least offensive to my sensibilities. If someone put a gun to my head and made me choose between Hitlery and Trumpolini, I'd pick Trumpolini without a doubt, but under no circumstances would I willingly vote for that.

But it's not just the exit polls that are the problem during any primary or (s)election when the exit polls and the official results don't match. They are far from the sole reason there is a discrepancy.

Events including but not limited to incorrect purging of legitimate voters[1], computer failures and other technical problems[2], entrances locked shut during expected hours of operation[2], voter registrations having been switched without the voter switching it[3], large numbers of voter complaints[4], all occurred during the NY primary alone, but were not events exclusive to it.

Events such as these will undoubtedly have an effect on the official vote tally in some way, minor or major. Any attempt to conduct an exit poll will be affected as a result of a flawed sample with which to gather its data from, that sample being the vote itself.

In every (s)election cycle without exception, those sorts of aforementioned events, plus events such as lost votes[5](or even deliberate vote dumping[6]), flipped votes[7], uncounted votes[8], acts of fraud[9], illegal bribery[10], legal bribery(commonly referred to as campaign contributions, which are without effective limitations)[11], and other dirty tricks(some of which are older than Tammany Hall itself), occur regularly within the U.S.

(S)elections tampering is still possible before a single vote is ever made. Common techniques for this include but are not limited to gerrymandering[12], limitations placed on candidate access to the debates[13] and/or speaking time[14], private money purchasing legislation or contract deals to provide the method of the vote itself[15], restrictions on candidate ballot access[16], as well as limitations placed on the voting process itself with respect to voter access[17], all of which will have an outcome on if/when/where/how any individual person votes due to variables that can be entirely outside of that person's control.

If a primary cannot even be properly and consistently conducted according to procedure(let alone conducted fairly), then I have no reason to be confident in the common assumption that a (s)election actually represents the will of the people who were eligible to vote and whom also took time out of their day to do so.

This 2016 primary, to me, is no exception to influencing my level of confidence in this process.

The fact is, the existing checks on the (s)election results are failing to match the official results, often well outside the margins of error. This discrepancy occurs WHILE these (s)elections are neither fair, nor truly representative of the will and/or views of the American people themselves due to the common presence of irregularities in modern U.S. (s)elections.

There exist many terms used to describe an election that is such.

It's rigged, tampered with, skewed, fixed, fraudulent, crooked, or any other synonym of your choice.

It leads me to the unavoidable conclusion that we, the American people, are openly being cheated.

It is interesting that the American people are expected by the establishment to find this acceptable somehow, and even more frustrating that a significant percentage of the American people do find this acceptable.

Any claim to the U.S. being by definition a democracy, or even a representative republic, is a claim that is in-congruent with real-world history and events. This is especially problematic then, that the U.S. wants to spread its “democracy” to the world's inhabitants, taking millions of lives while heading towards bankruptcy thanks in part to that effort, to the expense of us all.

If Sanders is elected, he will be the first centrist president we have had since Carter. He may be center left, but virtually all the other D/R candidates are right-wing authoritarians to an extreme degree, as every president has been since Reagan(including the right-wing neoliberals Bill Clinton and Barack Obama). Sanders is too milquetoast on civil liberties for my tastes; we need someone that will dismantle most of the state and allow liberty for a change, but as a centrist on this issue, he's leaps and bounds a better candidate than all the other D or R candidates simply for the fact that he distinguishes himself as not being an authoritarian neoliberal or neoconservative. Rand Paul leaned very slightly in the direction towards liberty, but his father was the true revolutionary in this regard.

The fact remains that in the U.S. today, if you are either a leftist, a centrist, or a right-libertarian, you have next to zero representation in congress, the courts, or in the executive branch. This country has thoroughly and utterly been taken over by right-wing authoritarians of various sorts, almost universally with a D or an R next to their name, all for the benefit of big business. This is troubling, since the American people have a much broader range of views and opinions than this, and if a sociology course I took during college is to be believed, a composite of the American people as a whole would be left-leaning economically and centrist on civil liberties issues, which is basically where Bernie Sanders sits, and polls consistently show him winning against Trumpolini by much wider margins than Hitlery in the general election should he get the nomination. Is it any wonder why congress' approval rating is consistently well below 20% and often in the single digits? The American people have no representation! Sanders is proving this with each day he is in the race.

Chalo said:
Nobody gets rich by himself. The richest all steal the profit from others' labor and cleverness, claim common ideas and words as their property, use up collective resources like it's a race to finish them off, and corrupt the law to their advantage.

On this subject, it needs to be said that:

1) Adjusted for inflation and accounting for the cost of goods/services, minimum wage in the U.S. used to exceed $20/hour in purchasing power in 1970 [18]
2) Since 1970, labor productivity per capita has more than doubled. [19]
3) Current minimum wage is now $7.25/hour [20]
4) Adjusting for worker productivity gains and the increased cost of goods/services since 1968, a "fair" minimum wage today would be well over $20/hour without increasing the costs of goods and services [21]
5) A burger flipper is paid $20+/hour in Norway[22] and a profit is still made off of their labor
6) The 20 wealthiest billionaires in the U.S. have more wealth than the bottom 50% of Americans put together which is more than 160 million people [23]
7) The wealthiest 1% of the world's population will soon have more wealth than the rest of the world put together[24]
8) For every job available in the U.S., there is consistently more than 1 jobless person seeking that job, meaning, full employment is not currently possible as the economy exists today no matter how badly the job seeker wants the job[25]
9) Most new jobs created since 2008 have been low-wage service sector jobs[26]
10) The effective tax rate of the Fortune 500 corporations is 12.6%[27], lower than that of most American wage earners at 31.5%[28]

Sander's $15/hour minimum wage proposal that the upper-income wing of the parasite class is complaining about is really the equivalent of handing out crumbs to people that work their ass off. I think they deserve more than crumbs for that work. If a fast food employee adds $50/hour of value to their employer, it's only fair that they are paid at least half of that. The corporations would have them working for free, if they could get away with it. These corporate millionaires and billionaires that are claiming wages are too high are the ones really and truly on the take, far more so than those 47% of poor Americans who are on the government dole in some form. The owners and highest paid executives of these corporations aren't the ones doing most of the work that add value to their institutions, the laborers are. The laborers are being paid a tiny fraction of the value they add to the corporations with their labor, and are simultaneously being automated out of existence while the savings are not translating into cheaper prices for the consumer. The disparity is bad enough in the U.S., and hundreds of times worse in the 3rd world where U.S. jobs are also being exported. The greed of the gold collar scum has no limits.

My dad's first job in 1970 was as a janitor making the minimum wage at $1.45/hour(*edit: I asked him. I initially thought he made only $1.00/hour, but it was actually $1.45). It was a part time job of about 25 hours a week. He had no scholarships, and used his earnings to pay for most of his college(taking out some loans), could also afford a 2 bedroom apartment in a nice neighborhood, went out to bars on a regular basis to get trashed, and paid cash for a brand new MGB GT sports car without needing a loan to buy it. All of this, on minimum wage, without even needing to work full time.

I can barely afford today's equivalent as an electrical engineer making over $50k/year today working more than 40 hours a week. I do without a lot of things in order to pay off my student loans, wherein my scholarships paid for roughly 3/4 of my tuition. 100% of my student loan money went to tuition and books, and I had to work jobs on the side still to afford my books. Since finding employment, I've been living in the ghetto and commuting to work by bicycle so that I have enough money on the side to pursue my projects and goals while paying down the debt. If I lived in a middle class neighborhood and drove a new car, I would be living paycheck to paycheck(or worse, perpetually accumulating debt) like most of my co-workers. I don't use credit cards, I don't waste my money going out to bars, I don't have cable TV, I almost never shop for anything frivilous, and I don't take out any further debt for anything. I can forget about starting a family anytime soon... and I'm doing much better than the majority in this country(for comparison, one of my roommates is making $7.25/hr, and without splitting the rent, he would literally not make enough to live on, and he's debt free). By the time I pay my student loan off, I'll have paid enough in interest to buy a cheap house, except I won't have the house to show for it. Some gold collar scum who inserted themselves as an intermediary between me and the college education I needed to pursue my goals basically got all of that interest money, without ever having worked to actually earn it.

Being morally opposed to the military, I could have dropped out of high school and sold crack, and potentially been a lot better off than I am now for a lot less work... but since I wouldn't be whoring myself out to some corporation or whoring myself out to the military, this government would then think being exploited in prison is the right place for me. It matters not that a crack dealer is providing a product on a purely voluntary basis, unlike say, the IRS demanding a cut of my wages with the threat of theft of my assets for non-compliance, or the threat of imprisonment if I resist the theft, or the threat of death should I resist the imprisonment. The crack dealer is truly independent from the government and corporate system, and in this day and age, that is a no-no.

If you are born in a family who doesn't have the assets to run their own business, you are herded into either the workforce, the military, or prison. The laws are set up in such a way that you are given no viable alternative. The threat of destitution is usually the sole motivator to work. Someone who was typically born rich gets to claim a portion of the value of your work for themselves, and I'm not talking about my fellow ghetto rats with their EBT cards(some of whom, admittedly, do know how to game the system). If you are born with a silver spoon up your ass, you pretty much get to do what you want.

Being that I wasn't born with a silver spoon up my ass, I took what job I could get, and not the job I wanted. I had hopes and dreams of going into the electric car industry in some form, but am nowhere near that goal and have now invested so much time and effort into the utility industry out of financial necessity that my only likely chance is to go back for more schooling and more debt, just to have a chance at pursuing my dreams, which would mean making the same mistake of taking on student loans a second time. I had to leave my conversion back at my parents' house out of financial necessity when I found employment 3 states away, because I could not justify the rent costs of a garaged apartment in a good neighborhood with enough space to work on it; what would be the point if I didn't have the spare cash to work on it? That conversion may be my only ticket to working for, say, Tesla, an increasingly remote dream.

It would have been a lot nicer not to have to pay the middlemen interest by going into debt to pay for overpriced schooling in order to get a permission slip to work called a degree, along the way. The job I am doing now is so below my capabilities that I could have done it out of high school with some training, but I'm stuck. As a result, I'm failing to live up to my potential, like most people in this country, and it's not even remotely my own fault or due to a lack of ability or intelligence on my part.

This economic system is a combination of both theft and slavery. By paying the workers less than is possible, the workers have to spend more of their lives working to afford the things they need(and if they are lucky enough to have anything left over, the things they want or any opportunities that require financial resources to pursue). I have experienced this first hand, working for a contracting firm that charges a company more than $100/hour for my work, and then pays me less than half of their remainder after their overhead and expenses are accounted for, making a larger profit margin off of my work than I am being paid for my labor, even though, ME, and not the company, is doing the actual work. I get roughly 2 weeks a year to split between seeing my family members and working on my electric car, and my family members are now dying. 2 weeks a year, to live my own life for myself. I'd love to undercut my company by buying my own equipment and work for the utility directly, but being forced to sign a no-compete contract as a condition of employment, with the contract being non-negotiable, gets in the way of that. Of course, I suppose I'm free to quit and go destitute and homeless when I no longer have an income source, as in this economy, jobs are very difficult to obtain. I suppose I could have stayed in my parents' basement unemployed and broke with my capabilities going to waste... or sold crack on the street corner...

I can't help but conclude that there is something implicitly wrong and unfair with this arrangement.

There's no incentive to work hard, because the greedy parasites at the top of the socioeconomic hierarchy think that they are entitled to most/all of the productive value added that humanity collectively has to offer. The totality of most ordinary peoples' incentive to work is the threat of destitution. That's a poor incentive, and it shows in all of those poor who decide gaming the system is a better way. The parasites at the low end of the socioeconomic ladder are receiving veritable crumbs when they get their EBT cards and government housing. This economic engine and this over-bloated government that allows it and who has bribed the poor with their pathetic handouts is not serving the 99%, it is enslaving them while the middle class pay for it and the gold collar scum 0.1% at the top make away with the bulk of value added by those who work for a living. The slave drivers are at the top of the socioeconomic hierarchy, making all the money, while complaining that they pay too much taxes in spite of having a grossly disproportionate percentage of the gains relative to their percentage of the population. According to a study by Princeton University, those at the top of the socioeconomic hierarchy are making all the major decisions in society, and not we the people as a whole[29]. Read that Princeton study for yourself. Consistently, whatever policy decisions the American people want have no impact on the decisions made by their (s)elected leaders; the small percentage of very wealthy are calling the shots in a so-called "democracy" that was originally meant to be a "representative republic", but is really and truly an oligarchy of sorts. "Corporate Dictatorship" or "Inverted Totalitarianism" would be more accurate terms for what the U.S. really is today.

Further, the government taxing the hell out of the middle class and small businesses while letting the Fortune 500 corporations avoid paying their fair share does not help anything, either, nor does the Federal Reserve manipulating the value of our currency to benefit its favored institutions and shareholders(who are kept secret from the public) while devaluing the currency and reducing the ability of ordinary people like me to save. It also doesn't help that government regulations are structured in a manner to allow established industries a loophole to the rules, while providing enough red tape and taxation to penalize an average person for trying to start their own enterprise. There are a lot of small business owners working 80 hours a week or more and also having to function as their own accountants and lawyers while servicing debt, often paying 35% tax while the Fortune 500 boys collecting the interest payments don't pay s***[30], relatively speaking, while the small business still has a 90% chance of failure[31].

To those right-wingers here deriding violent protesters as wanting handouts, the entirety of our society is run using the threat of violence. The violence of a few justifiably upset protesters is nothing, compared to the violence used by the state to make sure everyone is exploitable by the corporate gold collar scum that reap the majority of any benefits to be derived from the arrangement. From what I can tell, most people don't want handouts. They want rightful compensation for their labor and a livable society where prosperity is accessible, both of which are far from unreasonable demands, as when this society was less wealthy and less productive, it was more livable and wages were significantly higher than they are today. The protestors want the gold collar scum to pay for preying upon society as a whole and taking all of the benefits for themselves, and for this arrangement to be turned on its head and reversed.

In short, the elite have got to go. Otherwise, if a peaceful means of deposing them is not allowed, violence will be the inevitable result. It's not because the masses are selfish and want something for nothing, it is about survival and being entitled to a dignified existence as a fair exchange to spending what is often half of ones' waking hours laboring so that someone richer can collect.

If I had my way, laborers from a lowly janitor on up to a CEO and small businesses would never be taxed at all on their wages, and all of the taxes would be taken directly from the profit margins of the corporate behemoths, starting at $100 million/year. Between $100 million and $1 billion/yr profits, 25% tax rate, no loopholes of any sort. $1 billion to $5 billion/year profits, 50% tax rate. Above $5 billion/year profits, 90% tax rate. This would be used to fund the basic functions outlined in the U.S. Constitution, and if and only if there is anything left and pending a constitutional amendment to allow it, only then would a check of equal amount be cut for each and every American as a sort of minimum income for all. Throw in Bernie Sanders' proposal for taxing Wall Street transactions so as to prevent the rapid trading that goes on today and is used to extract money from transactions by virtue of computer processing speed and blatant market manipulation. Failing these two proposals, then I'd prefer to abolish the IRS and tax system altogether. In either event, a rule would be established abolishing the minimum wage with regard to small business owners and raising it to $25/hour and indexed to inflation for those that work for large corporations, with the stipulation that the highest paid employee and/or owner of a business was not allowed to be paid more than 10x that of the lowest paid employee of said business. Usury, interest, and the entirety of the current system of credit would be banned, so that we could all watch the prices of college educations, homes, healthcare, and other necessities plummet to reasonable levels as less fiat money is available to chase them and as the middlemen collecting on the interest are cut out. The Federal Reserve would be abolished, along with the FBI/DEA/NSA/DHS/TSA/BATF and the rest of the military/security/surveillance industrial complex. The national debt would also be abolished, a balanced budget amendment pushed, and the money from then on would have to be backed by some kind of tangible asset(such as gold/silver).

I am a pseudo-Marxist that has zero problem with free enterprise on a small scale and thinks that our Founding Fathers had some damned good ideas. One might think these traits mutually exclusive, but need I remind you that even Thomas Paine wanted a guaranteed minimum income for all as he wrote about in Agrarian Justice, well before communism or socialism were even defined words, and Thomas Jefferson himself was highly distrustful of concentrated corporate power. My problem is with the gold collar scum whom think that they have a right to own/exploit humanity and/or the near totality its productive output, the same gold collar scum that have purchased virtually all of the world's governments including that of the United States and dictate the laws that we are all expected to follow, yet whom find workarounds to these same laws themselves and have so thoroughly purchased the justice system that hardly anyone attempts to prosecute them for their crimes.

I am more libertarian than the vast majority of Ayn Rand worshippers, in-spite of being a commie to some extent, but there is something to be said when a small group of people is making the bulk of society's decisions and hording the vast majority of its wealth. What's the point of having a civilization if there is going to be a complete and utter lack of civility? We may as well have anarchy, at that point... The Ayn Rand ideal taken to its logical conclusion can only be sustained with the threat of violence real and implied applied to those that do not rise to the top of the socioeconomic hierarchy. I find this to be morally repugnant.

For the record, I was for the following candidates:

-2004: Ralph Nader (Nader wasn't on the ballot and write-ins weren't allowed, so did a coin toss. Heads: John Kerry. Tails: Michael Badnarik. It landed on heads. I despise Kerry, but Bush was that bad. In restrospect, I regret that vote and should have picked Badnarik.)
-2008: Ron Paul (I didn't vote. He wasn't on the ballot, I couldn't write him in, and I walked out.)
-2012: Gary Johnson (I voted for this one.)
-2016: Jill Stein (Depending on what happens with the rigged democratic primaries and the ballot, I may vote Sanders, but Stein is a better choice, as is Johnson.)

I have no illusions about a president magically solving any of our problems. Even the solutions I have proposed are not without inherent weaknesses. One of the only people in this topic that seems to understand how our society works as a system is LiveForPhysics, for as little words as he has said in this topic, he has said more than anyone. He seems to get it.

Hitlery and Trumpolini should run together on the same ticket as the Axis of Evil. Both represent everything that is wrong with the extremely right-wing, extremely authoritarian, socialistic/capitalistic hybrid corporate dictatorship that is the United States, which is itself technically/legally a corporation, not a nation.

I like the idea of Adam Kokesh running in 2020. If I get a little nest egg set aside, I might use it to run myself in 2020, just to see what happens(I doubt I would get anywhere, but it would be a fun experiment nonetheless). America needs an anarchist for president that will dramatically shrink and/or dissolve the Federal Government, regardless of whether its an anarcho-communist(my preference) or an anarcho-capitalist(such as Mr. Adam Kokesh).

At the same time, the financial elite need to be reigned in, as they are the driving force behind the destruction of our planet, the erosion of our national sovereignty, and our collective descent into neo-Feudalism. If the people of the world do not revolt against this arrangement, the human species is likely doomed to extinction.



References:

[1] http://nypost.com/2016/04/20/im-one-of-nycs-125000-ghosts-that-couldnt-cast-their-vote/
[2] http://usuncut.com/politics/new-york-primary-disaster/
[3] http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...lawsuit-alleged-voter-fraud-article-1.2603876
[4] http://www.lohud.com/story/news/pol...ry-voter-hotline-swarmed-complaints/83248288/
[5] http://vote.arlingtonva.us/absentee/lost-damaged-absentee-ballots/
[6] http://www.hermes-press.com/criminal_vote.htm
[7] http://bradblog.com/?cat=166
[8] http://www.gregpalast.com/one-milli...-lost-if-some-politicians-want-it-to-be-lost/
[9] http://www.voicesofliberty.com/article/election-2016-how-can-we-stop-dead-people-from-voting/
[10] https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal/legacy/2013/09/30/electbook-0507.pdf
[11] http://www.ibtimes.com/jimmy-carter...-allows-legal-bribery-politics-former-2291811
[12] http://www.wired.com/2016/01/gerrymandering-is-even-more-infuriating-when-you-can-actually-see-it/
[13] http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/13/libertarian-party-sues-chance-stand-2016-president/
[14] http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-gets-most-gop-debate-talk-time-rand-paul-least-360724
[15] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/16/AR2010091601936.html
[16] http://www.greenpartywatch.org/category/ballot-access/
[17] http://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/to-the-point/states-clamp-down-with-new-voter-id-laws
[18] http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31010.htm
[19] http://www.epi.org/files/2012/ib330-figureA.png.538
[20] https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/minimumwage
[21] http://www.ibtimes.com/us-minimum-wage-should-be-22-hour-says-elizabeth-warren-1134793
[22] http://www.alternet.org/labor/burger-king-and-mcdonalds-pay-fast-food-workers-20-hour-denmark
[23] http://www.ibtimes.com/richest-20-a...lth-entire-bottom-half-country-report-2206865
[24] http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/19/world/wealth-inequality/
[25] http://www.bls.gov/web/jolts/jlt_labstatgraphs.pdf
[26] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/b...more-low-wage-jobs-than-better-paid-ones.html
[27] http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/
[28] http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-workers-face-tax-burden-315-percent
[29] https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites...testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf
[30] http://www.americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-corporate-tax-rates/
[31] http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilpat...ail-heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-10/
 
The Toecutter said:
For those who refuse to consider that the process is rigged against Sanders, check the following links out:

http://www.electionfraud2016.wordpress.com
https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/category/election-myths/

The problem is there's nothing of substance to those. 2000 exit polls of Al Gore with 2/3rds of the Florida vote, now THAT is a discrepancy. Putin getting more votes than were actually cast---well, that's what Bernie is demanding for himself. As long as your boy ain't winning, he's being cheated.

When Bernie loses the nomination, when (Left of Bill)ary loses in November, HERE is what they need to lament. That they totally ignored what the VOTERS wanted. (Like the repeal of Obamacare.) I gotta get to work hittin' ya with the stacks of info on that.

http://www.ozy.com/2016/are-democrats-abandoning-the-blue-collar-vote/65945
 
Dauntless said:
The problem is there's nothing of substance to those. 2000 exit polls of Al Gore with 2/3rds of the Florida vote, now THAT is a discrepancy. Putin getting more votes than were actually cast---well, that's what Bernie is demanding for himself. As long as your boy ain't winning, he's being cheated.
Wrong

There is undisputable evidence of foul play buy that Skank.

There is a video I will try to find but there is so much evidence on this its not even funny why is it you can't even open your eyes to the matter 1 little bit?

Have you not looked at who is funding who and how bad the system is rigged? Open your eyes man.
 
Dauntless said:
The problem is there's nothing of substance to those. 2000 exit polls of Al Gore with 2/3rds of the Florida vote, now THAT is a discrepancy.

I can only conclude from this statement that you didn't even look into those links.

In Kentucky alone, fraud was reported in more than 30 counties[1], with Pike County, in particular, somehow losing its entire vote count[2]. In Sussex County, Delaware, Bernie's total vote count mysteriously declined as a larger number of precincts reported their results, with a landslide of over 80% of the county voting for Bernie somehow dropping to a Hitlery win[3].

These sorts of anomalies are repeated in states such as NY, AZ, PA, MO, IL, and many others, and somehow always in favor of the skank and to the detriment of the old curmudgeonly Jew. The video in my earlier post covers this adequately, and there is a lot more information on this subject if you do some digging in my other links.

Further, the exit polls are much more off in this 2016 primary, than they were for the supposed inventor of the internet when he ran against the shrub in FL during the 2000 (s)election, by orders of magnitude. The data is there in the links presented in my previous post, if you're willing to look for it... Exit poll discrepancies of greater than the margin of error on a consistent basis, universally in favor of one candidate over the other, with the anomaly repeated in state after state after state, is a pretty damned good indication of cheating.

Putin getting more votes than were actually cast---well, that's what Bernie is demanding for himself.

This seems to describe Hitlery, more than anything. 120,000 from Brooklyn, NY alone were purged from the voter rolls without a legitimate reason, with a large number of illegal purges having occurred all over the state of NY, and all over other states. There has been mysterious disappearances of votes, vote flipping, vote dumping, and voter disenfranchisement all over the U.S. When these events favor the skank over the old curmudgeonly Jew nearly 100% of the time, I cannot do anything but conclude that something is terribly awry and that people aren't voting in the manner that the official results claim that they did.

This is also not the first (s)election where this has occurred. It has been going on since at least 1988, when electronic machines with no voter verified paper trail were used to hand the NH primary to George H.W. Bush over what was seemingly the voters' choice, Bob Dole[4].

As long as your boy ain't winning, he's being cheated.

If you would have even read my post, you would realize that Bernie is not "my boy", to start with. I wanted Rand Paul, who is almost at the opposite end of the political spectrum.

This entire system has been taken over by authoritarian neoliberals and neoconservatives, all of them crony capitalists of sorts. Hitlery is among the worst of them. They do not come close to representing the American people, and in fact, are selling America out as the American people are demanding a halt to this process and a return to relative normalcy. The neoliberals and neoconservatives are traitors, and will stop at nothing until they've achieved worldwide corporate hegemony and full spectrum dominance over every aspect of our lives. This is partially to explain why Trumpolini has gotten the support he has; The Dump, like the old curmudgeonly Jew, distinguishes himself as an outsider to this neoliberal/neoconservative coup that has hijacked this country, even though the Dump is quite lacking in sanity, maturity, and intelligence.

When Bernie loses the nomination, when (Left of Bill)ary loses in November, HERE is what they need to lament.

If anything, the Dump is to the left of the skank. He at least consistently opposes the TPP, while the skank initially supported it, has flip-flopped and probably still does support it in secret. The Dump wants to raise taxes on the wealthy, something the skank is loath to do. The Dump has seemingly expressed support for a single payer system, while the skank wants to keep and expand the current failed Obamacare policy that the American people do not want. In any event, I have no trust in the words of either of them, as neither are consistent. At least the old curmudgeonly Jew is consistent, to his credit.

That they totally ignored what the VOTERS wanted. (Like the repeal of Obamacare.) I gotta get to work hittin' ya with the stacks of info on that.

http://www.ozy.com/2016/are-democrats-abandoning-the-blue-collar-vote/65945
[/quote]

On the subject of Obamacare, you are correct in that the American people do not want it. The skank wants to keep it in tact. The old curmudeonly Jew wants to go to a single payer Medicaire for all system, which currently, 50% of Americans support[5]. The Dump has also once stated with regard to healthcare that "everybody's going to be taken care of" and that "the government's gonna pay for it.[6]"

References:

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/c...tucky_counties_report_election_fraud_tuesday/
[2] https://richardcharnin.wordpress.co...no-more-exit-polls-kentucky-and-oregon-recap/
[3] http://www.inquisitr.com/3039553/vo...elaware-another-example-of-a-rigged-election/
[4] http://freepress.org/article/new-hampshire-birthplace-electronic-election-theft
[5] http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/229959-majority-still-support-single-payer-option-poll-finds
[6] http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...gle-payer-healthcare-tax-increase-on-wealthy/
 
The Toecutter said:
Dauntless said:
The problem is there's nothing of substance to those. 2000 exit polls of Al Gore with 2/3rds of the Florida vote, now THAT is a discrepancy.

I can only conclude from this statement that you didn't even look into those links.

Um, Nooooooo, at least if you're a reasonable person. If you're delusionally prejudiced you'd insist on concluding whatever you want and disregarding the truth of I know that stuff every well. Name for me an election where there's never been anyone screaming 'FRAUD!'

(Oh, and may I complement you on the impressiveness of the sources you keep coming up with. The incredible reputability, the soundness.)

If you want to express an opinion about Florida in 2000, why don't you learn about it? Starting with the fact that Al Gore NEVER said he invented the internet, just as Sara Palin never said she knew foreign relations because she could see Russia from her back porch. The issue in Florida had to do with things such as the 'Butterfly Ballot' that gained Nader and Buchanan far more votes than the exit polls indicated, (People THOUGHT they'd voted for someone else, but the ballot itself is what counts, not the intent) let alone the 'Hanging Chad' issue. Unrelated to the exit polls, there's the nearly 100,000 black Democrats the Republicans removed as 'Convicted Felons' who in fact had never been arrested. If a tiny fraction of those who showed up to vote and at some polls were in a near riot had actually voted there'd have been no real problem with the rest, Al Gore would have won. The official government investigation called that a very serious voter fraud. But nothing happened. There's huge numbers of voters stricken for the wrong reasons all the time, but somehow my sister left the state before I could even register and was still registered to vote in California for quite some time.

When you know anything about what REALLY goes on in elections, you come to realize how facetious your little links really are. Although that will require caring about the truth. Of course two long meandering posts demonstrate you're only interested in spewing your bile. I for one won't waste time on using anything ridiculously threadbare to support my side. Bernie, on the other hand, is screaming because more of the unpledged delegates are choosing (Left of Bill)ary than are choosing him. No, Bernie, they are not supposed to be distributed evenly, that would defeat the whole point of HAVING delegates. Just more proof of how unbalanced the guy really is.

The Toecutter said:
Dauntless said:
Putin getting more votes than were actually cast---well, that's what Bernie is demanding for himself.

This seems to describe Hitlery, more than anything.

You don't know anything about Hitler. Hitler never had even HALF the votes cast. Again, you're not interested in the truth, you're only interested in your personal agenda. The Hitler like candidate is Bernie Sanders. None other than, as anyone actually familiar with the two can tell you.





The Toecutter said:
Dauntless said:
As long as your boy ain't winning, he's being cheated.

If you would have even read my post, you would realize that Bernie is not "my boy", to start with. I wanted Rand Paul, who is almost at the opposite end of the political spectrum.

This entire system has been taken over by authoritarian neoliberals and neoconservatives, all of them crony capitalistszzzzzz of sortszzzzz. Hitlery is among the worst of them. They do not come close to represzzzzzzzzzz . . . zzzelling America out as the American people are demanding a halt to thizzzzzzzz. . . are traitorzzzz, and will stop at nothing until they've achieved worldwide corporate hegemony and full spectrum dominance over every azzzzpect of our liveszzzzzzzz. . . .

. . . .zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! (SNORK!) It must be an election year, my insomnia is cured. How does that old song go?

Listen kid you paid for the call.
You ain't bad but we heard it all
BEFOOOOOREEE. . . .


That's right, you didn't even write that speech yourself, you stole it from the hundreds, thousands, etc. you heard make it before. How will you ever learn that to the rest of us, you're just peeling rotten onions for the fun of it?

rrare29-4.jpg
 
When Donald Trump uses bankruptcy to protect his fortune from creditors, but you can’t use bankruptcy to protect your home from foreclosure or your student debt from garnished paychecks, it’s because the bankruptcy system has been rigged by people like Trump.
When Trump’s presidential campaign declares his buildings worth lots of money -- seeking to demonstrate his business success -- but his property tax filings describe the same properties as almost worthless, it’s because the tax system has been rigged by people like Donald Trump.
As David Cay Johnson reveals in the article below, throughout his career Trump has put high values on his properties when talking to bankers, investors and the public, and small values on them when dealing with tax authorities.
Most recently, when Trump wanted to reduce property taxes on the Trump International Hotel & Tower in Chicago, he turned to well-connected local Democrat Edward M. Burke on the Chicago City Council, who lowered his property taxes by almost 40 percent by reducing the building’s assessed value. (Trump also spread around nearly $100,000 in campaign contributions to Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Cook County Democrats and other local pols.) Average Chicagoans now have to pay higher taxes or have fewer government services to make up the difference.
Bottom line: Trump makes money by using his fortune to rig the system in his favor. He’s just another oligarch masquerading as a populist. But of course you knew this, right?
 
Yes our government likes to screw the common man up the bung hole. They throw sand in it for shits 'n giggles.
Look no further then the Tort laws. Caps on lawsuits. What a shame :( :(

I think Bernie Sanders is still in it for some reason I have not yet figured out. I think perhaps he is trying to steal away votes from Hillary Clinton, then he can get in on Trumps campaign through the back door once Trump is prez.
 
markz said:
I think perhaps he is trying to steal away votes from Hillary Clinton, then he can get in on Trumps campaign through the back door once Trump is prez.

That would make a compelling theory if they really did behave that way. But Bernie is in it for the same reason Barack Obama was in it 8 years ago. It doesn't matter to him how clueless he is, he's just doing it for the attention. Now he has no idea how to get out of it without making a horses ass of himself. Don't worry, Bernie, you already have, admitting defeat could hardly make it any worse.

LVD5aj4Pps7l.jpg
 
Dauntless said:
markz said:
I think perhaps he is trying to steal away votes from Hillary Clinton, then he can get in on Trumps campaign through the back door once Trump is prez.

That would make a compelling theory if they really did behave that way. But Bernie is in it for the same reason Barack Obama was in it 8 years ago. It doesn't matter to him how clueless he is, he's just doing it for the attention. Now he has no idea how to get out of it without making a horses ass of himself. Don't worry, Bernie, you already have, admitting defeat could hardly make it any worse.

LVD5aj4Pps7l.jpg

I have a better theory, socialist never where great at facing reality. He still thinks he can win the nomination ;)
 
Ratking said:
I have a better theory, socialist never where great at facing reality. He still thinks he can win the nomination ;)

Well, yeah, that is one of the things I meant. Supposedly in the final days in the bunker, Hitler was strategizing for divisions of hundreds of thousands of trained veteran soldiers with thousands of planes and thousands of tanks, all set to turn the tide and protect Germany from the inevitable.

Bernie thinks he has unlimited funding to go with his unlimited public support. Socialism is the biggest Ponzi scheme/Drug addiction in history, without any concern for the fact that sooner or later you'll run out of the OPiuM. (Other People's Money.)

rrare34-4.jpg
 
Arlo1 said:
He’s just another oligarch masquerading as a populist. But of course you knew this, right?

There, you see, this is how you're supposed to post. Trump and Sanders are two 1% oligarchiods masquerading as populists. Trump admits it, Bernie lies about it. But of course you know who proves himself less trustworthy, right?

You also realize I'm more than just a few steps ahead of you, right?
 
Dang. Here I'm thinking about how I could help keep the hilliarity going by voting for Bernie next Tuesday. They say it's virtually a dead heat here in California. I sure wouldn't vote for him in November, but it's near meaningless in June. Given the sheer numbers of Burners who won't vote for (Left of Bill)ary in November, (Dang, I was listening to several going on about that last night) the more votes Bernie gets, the more the Democratic bleedership will whine and squirm.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-bernie-or-bust/index.html

Bernie or bust: Sanders supporters vow to hold out

Philadelphia (CNN)Three words are hanging over the final days of the Democratic presidential race: Bernie or bust.
"When you say Bernie or bust, that means if we don't get Bernie, we're just not going to automatically vote for the demon because you're saying the devil may be there," said Billy Taylor, who is organizing a coalition of Bernie Sanders supporters to protest at the Democratic convention here in July.

Sanders has inspired a movement, but it's unclear whether he can control it. Or if he wants to.
After the final wave of states vote next Tuesday, Sanders has one decision to make. His supporters have another. And many insist they will not fall into line behind Hillary Clinton.
"You can't expose the corruption of the political system and then expect us to get behind that same political system," said Gary Frazier, a leader of a group called Black Men for Bernie, who is also organizing Sanders supporters here in Philadelphia.
In interviews here this week, Frazier and Taylor outlined their plans to CNN, imploring Sanders' supporters to leave the Democratic Party to protest rules governing the presidential nominating system. They are taking seriously Sanders' call for a political revolution, complicating any hope for quick unity with Clinton.
"We are prepared to de-register from the Democratic Party and explore other options. Maybe we don't get it done in this election, but I can damn well guarantee you this: We mean business," Frazier said. "If Bernie Sanders does not walk out of that thing as the nominee, we can guarantee you from that point on we'll start the de-registration of the Democratic Party. They have a choice to make."
Their passion doesn't change the hard reality of the delegate math: Clinton will clinch the party's nomination next Tuesday. Sanders will not.
Yet Sanders' most loyal supporters are now convinced the system is rigged, setting up a collision course for Democrats. He has done little to dissuade them.
"It's an unfair system, it's a dumb system, and it's a system we will change," Sanders said in California, rallying supporters through comments that have fueled deep skepticism about party rules.
The support for Sanders is not built on the party faithful alone.
CNN exit polls from 27 states that have voted this year show that 63% of Sanders' supporters are Democrats and 33% are independents or from another party. It's a far cry from Clinton, whose supporters are 85% Democrat and only 13% independent or from another party.
Clinton needs some of those independents to win, which is why winning over those Sanders supporters is critical to her campaign.
"He said the other day he'll do everything possible to defeat Donald Trump," Clinton told CNN's Jake Tapper on Tuesday. "I take him at his word. The threat he poses the country and democracy and economy, I certainly expect Senator Sanders to do what he said he would."
The Clinton campaign is also counting on Trump to serve as a unifying force to the party, which is a miscalculation in the minds of Taylor and Frazier.
"If we don't go along with Hillary, then Trump's going to get the presidency and the world's going to be in shambles," Frazier said. "That's 'BS' to us."
A Quinnipiac poll Wednesday found that 75% of Sanders supporters said they would rally behind Clinton in a race with Trump, but about a quarter of his supporters went elsewhere. It's an open question whether the campaign's heat of the moment will fade or give way to party unity.
Sara Alicia Huerta Long, who traveled to New Jersey from Michigan to volunteer for the Sanders campaign, said she believed the "Bernie or Bust" movement had considerable support and Clinton would struggle to win over Sanders' supporters.
"There's a lot of first time voters who've only come out to vote for him," Long said in an interview, "and they don't want her."
 
American politicians who admire our northern European welfare state system have quite romantic view about it.
This system was not born out of humanity or socialism but out of geographical necessity because it"s damn cold out there most of the year. You gotta have that warm place to sleep.
Mostly this system was born out of political competition with USSR. At one stage Communist Party was our biggest party, and this system was the best deal right wing could perform against full blown communism back in those days. Best political compromise that was possible. Commies wanted full blown communism, but right managed to get this compromise with them.

It was also about keeping the working man happy. That was compulsory back then. When working man is happy (receives fair amount of benefits), he does not vote communists but social democrats. If you did not keep the workers happy there was a threat that size of the communist party would have increased even more, which would have meant becoming part of the USSR. Without communist threat this system would have never born. Now commies are gone, and we are tearing this system down. There"s no need for it anymore voters seem to agree.

Pretty much everything here have happened out of the need to remain independent nation. Sometimes that requires some steep manoeuvres to the right and left when you are small country.
Please continue. I just had to say this here. It"s not a bad system overall, tax-funded healthcare is pretty good thing though we are slowly getting rid of it and tax-funded education works. Just wanted to shed some light to how this system was born what mister Sanders seems to admire quite a bit. I dunno can one build welfare state around pure idealism, we built it because we had to to remain independent and peaceful.
 
When I think of idiots like Obama and Sanders DEMANDING their socialism NOW, I recall 'Vinegar Joe' Stillwell arriving in Asia as the Japanese are sweeping across the continent in early 1942. With the French rolling over in Indochina and the British is full retreat, Stillwell went right past the fleeing English and drove right at the Japanese. Yeah, he was gonna make quite a legend for himself. Got his butt kicked. And the American Expeditionary Force who did the fighting, too.

Some wonder at why Stillwell refused to board the evacuation plane, flown by 'God is My CoPilot' author Robert Scott. Some speculate he was trying to act macho in defeat, hiking for 3 weeks in spite of the fact he was still the American Theater Commander and as such was a bit derelict in his duties by staying out of touch. Other wonder if it was a suicide attempt: in humiliation, he suddenly decided he wanted to die in action and was giving the Japanese their chance.

My thought is that he was giving 3 weeks for it to all to blow over. Why face consequences? He was entitled, right? No skin off his nose. This is exactly how B & B (Barack and Bernie) feel, they should be allowed to act as recklessly as they please and if it doesn't work out it's OUR problem, not theirs. They're entitled to their adventures, afterall.

Bernie needs an office like this, just to make it clear who he is.

rrare93-16.jpg
 
It's clear to me that if the rich fux who presume to hold power in the USA don't get comfortable with the idea of a soft leftist like Bernie, they're going to get a hard leftist a little bit further down the road. Whoever that is won't ask nicely, nor let them keep their Ill-gotten toys.

I for one will not feel sorry for them.
 
http://www.downvids.net/demopocalypse-jon-stewart-comes-out-of-retirement-813527.html
 
Chalo said:
It's clear to me that if the rich fux who presume to hold power in the USA don't get comfortable with the idea of a soft leftist like Bernie, they're going to get a hard leftist a little bit further down the road. Whoever that is won't ask nicely, nor let them keep their Ill-gotten toys.

I for one will not feel sorry for them.

Bernie ain't so soft, nor is he asking so nicely. I don't remember a candidate inspiring so much violence.
 
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