markz
100 TW
.....so if PAS is legal in NYC then a switch on the handlebar to bypass PAS and you are set 
Illegal #EBikes
- Thread starter LockH
- Start date
miro13car
100 kW
that's what happens when e bikes become popular.
Does it matter is NY or other city, crack down is only matter of time when numbers increase.
Does it matter is NY or other city, crack down is only matter of time when numbers increase.
TheBeastie
1 MW
If its a proper EN15194 pedelec PAS bike then even the mere existence of any kind of throttle would make it illegal, even having an overly large electric hub motor or mid drive thats obviously not 250w would be breaking the standard and the cops (if they knew what they were doing) would seize the bike as having any kind of weight for a ebike that maxes out at 250w would obviously sap all its practicality.markz said:.....so if PAS is legal in NYC then a switch on the handlebar to bypass PAS and you are set
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec
markz
100 TW
If I lived in NYC I would install a cheap rear hub motor, hidden by large pannier bags which is the first step in concealment. Throw the batteries in the bags, and a clever setup for the controller, perhaps use the slide in battery rack, yet use that area for the controller, if you are feeling lucky use Grin Tech's mini controller. Hide the wires in the frame.
Then a lot of fake pedaling.
Then a lot of fake pedaling.
Chalo
100 TW
Why fake pedal, when PAS bikes are legal? Just use one of those.
Kineticman
1 mW
They need an ebike lobby in NYC/New York State! There is an extremely active bike group here in DC that continuously lobbies the city council to amend and change their laws. They are called Washington Area Bicyclist Association (WABA). The group has been very successful over the last couple decades in changing lawmakers opinions and also in building miles upon miles of new bike lanes. They even were able to get rid of some parking for bike lanes! A lot of WABA's arguments are backed by scientific studies that they have taken from other transportation studies or ones they have paid for on their own.
The rules in DC are definitely more accepting of bikes and ebikes than NYC even though there is a constant battle back and forth in this city between drivers and bikers.... but if an opposition of enough people starts pushing the city hard some things might change. These stories from NYC have definitely made me hesitant to take my ride up there to cruise around which sucks.
The rules in DC are definitely more accepting of bikes and ebikes than NYC even though there is a constant battle back and forth in this city between drivers and bikers.... but if an opposition of enough people starts pushing the city hard some things might change. These stories from NYC have definitely made me hesitant to take my ride up there to cruise around which sucks.
RonnieBrowen2106
100 W
I am glad I live in Minnesota. The limit is 1000w nominal and no more than 20MPH. But I have never been questioned or pulled over for going over 30. If you don't do anything dumb, the police generally don't care.
RonnieBrowen2106
100 W
I know a serious biker who loves his $2-3k bike. He really likes my electric bike. One of these days I might consider biking with him just for fun. He has asked me too.ecycler said:
markz
100 TW
Technically I am illegal riding my ebike, up to ~2200W
Unsure what Alberta legalities are, perhaps its 500W, maybe 750W....either way I dont care at all what the non enforcable number is. In the very unlikely chance I were to ever get a ticket, very slim to non, all I would do is show the YT clip of Justin saying "You need an RPM to determine wattage" then for laughs I'd show the other clip of of Justins being "chased by a grizzly" analogy which is in Justins same train of thought. I think that video is easily 5 years old, or longer. I would most definately say Justin is an e-bike expert, no doubt about that.
But look it here, police officers dont care what the law states, their job is to write tickets and dont look to obvious, trying to rack up the quota. You see they expect a certain percentage of people to just plead guilty, even though they may have a case. You see the judicial systems knows this all to well, and they bank on it.
I posted up the link of Justin talking about rpm's and bears, just search my posts. Was about a week or so ago.
Look it here, I dont go around speeding past pedestrians on the trailways. I dont do wheelies up and down main street, nor in front of the donut shop where ticket writers love to hang out and talk about how corrupt they are. I dont put people at risk, this includes their animal pets. I make tons of room for them, even if it means I gotta slow down and go over bumpy off path dirt/grass/rocks.
From the front no one knows its an ebike, not on a rear hub motor setup, even with a CA, or KT display on the handlebars. If you have a triangle bag, those big ones like EM3EV, those look like you are on a long cross ride, that "look" adds to the pannier bags too, which is helpful in covering up the rear hub.
That is all you need, and you will be safe.
Unsure what Alberta legalities are, perhaps its 500W, maybe 750W....either way I dont care at all what the non enforcable number is. In the very unlikely chance I were to ever get a ticket, very slim to non, all I would do is show the YT clip of Justin saying "You need an RPM to determine wattage" then for laughs I'd show the other clip of of Justins being "chased by a grizzly" analogy which is in Justins same train of thought. I think that video is easily 5 years old, or longer. I would most definately say Justin is an e-bike expert, no doubt about that.
But look it here, police officers dont care what the law states, their job is to write tickets and dont look to obvious, trying to rack up the quota. You see they expect a certain percentage of people to just plead guilty, even though they may have a case. You see the judicial systems knows this all to well, and they bank on it.
I posted up the link of Justin talking about rpm's and bears, just search my posts. Was about a week or so ago.
Look it here, I dont go around speeding past pedestrians on the trailways. I dont do wheelies up and down main street, nor in front of the donut shop where ticket writers love to hang out and talk about how corrupt they are. I dont put people at risk, this includes their animal pets. I make tons of room for them, even if it means I gotta slow down and go over bumpy off path dirt/grass/rocks.
From the front no one knows its an ebike, not on a rear hub motor setup, even with a CA, or KT display on the handlebars. If you have a triangle bag, those big ones like EM3EV, those look like you are on a long cross ride, that "look" adds to the pannier bags too, which is helpful in covering up the rear hub.
That is all you need, and you will be safe.
In my opinion any legislation regulating details about the safety items like power or control mechanisms, etc. which does not clearly make them safer is against ebikes. Why can't they just leave well enough alone until it becomes a problem?
Example 1:
The rules that most US states are now passing while copying Cali's rules about a class 3 limited exclusively pedal assist operation is utter hogwash. I can't think of any good rationale for that. In FACT it is a more dangerous way to try to ride a higher powered bike at low speeds in confined areas. My wife refuses to ride ebikes because she has had bad experiences with pedal assist sending her out of control when she was trying to go slowly and maneuver.
That rule reeks of elitist cyclist thinking, "Well, if we are going to allow ebikes to go as fast as I can pedal, then we must at least MAKE them pedal too!"
Example 2:
Making the max power limit to 750w for a class 3 bike. Max power should have nothing to do with it on a vehicle where weight can make such a huge difference. A 340lbs man trying to get back in shape is still going to struggle tremendously going up a steep hill on a DD with 750w, while a 16 year old who weighs 120lbs wet is going to go flying past him. The limit of power makes no sense when they have already set a BS limit of 28mph. Any bicycle with any age rider can easily exceed 28mph going down a steep enough hill. Why aren't the speed limits of the road a good enough rule like every other vehicle?
We all know that it take a tremendous amount of energy (resources) to build an ebike that can sustain high speed for extended lengths of time. There are many sections of my commute (like crossing a bridge with no shoulder) where the speed limit is 40mph and if you are going much less than that you will definitely get killed by someone swerving around you last minute and setting up the car behind them to rear end you. In fact a woman was almost killed a year or two ago exactly like that on a bike and the car committed a hit and run.
Example 1:
The rules that most US states are now passing while copying Cali's rules about a class 3 limited exclusively pedal assist operation is utter hogwash. I can't think of any good rationale for that. In FACT it is a more dangerous way to try to ride a higher powered bike at low speeds in confined areas. My wife refuses to ride ebikes because she has had bad experiences with pedal assist sending her out of control when she was trying to go slowly and maneuver.
That rule reeks of elitist cyclist thinking, "Well, if we are going to allow ebikes to go as fast as I can pedal, then we must at least MAKE them pedal too!"
Example 2:
Making the max power limit to 750w for a class 3 bike. Max power should have nothing to do with it on a vehicle where weight can make such a huge difference. A 340lbs man trying to get back in shape is still going to struggle tremendously going up a steep hill on a DD with 750w, while a 16 year old who weighs 120lbs wet is going to go flying past him. The limit of power makes no sense when they have already set a BS limit of 28mph. Any bicycle with any age rider can easily exceed 28mph going down a steep enough hill. Why aren't the speed limits of the road a good enough rule like every other vehicle?
We all know that it take a tremendous amount of energy (resources) to build an ebike that can sustain high speed for extended lengths of time. There are many sections of my commute (like crossing a bridge with no shoulder) where the speed limit is 40mph and if you are going much less than that you will definitely get killed by someone swerving around you last minute and setting up the car behind them to rear end you. In fact a woman was almost killed a year or two ago exactly like that on a bike and the car committed a hit and run.
The main way that ebikes are getting completely legislated against would be mountain bike trails all over the country. Check out BLM rules and major parks. They are all quickly jumping onboard to stop ebikes from riding, yet there have been no accidents or problems with them. It is purely the elitist bikers trying to keep rookies off their trails.
ecycler said:
Elitist human bikers are a big issue but that's not totally it. A huge issue with trails is erosion and moving around of the soil. This happens any time the soil is disturbed which of course is the case whenever a tire runs over it. When you have powered vehicles that are heavier, travel faster (and this need to brake harder and longer) and can apply more torque to the wheel, making more disturbance under acceleration you have a problem. The problem is your trails will rapidly change and you will get things like ruts braking bumps and really gnarly jump faces. This ruins the trail and requires human intervention to fix.
Note, I do ride MTB trails all the time and I love it but I'm respectful and consider the impact from my individual use to be insignificant. If there were 200 of me riding the trails every week on an ebike, things might be different.
Chalo
100 TW
flat tire said:
In my casual observation, e-bikers as a group ride more like clueless inconsiderate dorks/car drivers than cyclists in general. I attribute this behavior to relative inexperience riding, but regardless of the reason for it, I expect this may also be a factor.
DRMousseau
100 W
markz said:
I jus wanted to pick on this for a brief moment,.... it seems that "peace officers" who have sworn "to serve and protect" have become "LAW ENFORCEMENT"! And they certainly don't care what the law states. But "quotas" aren't really a part of it. Actually,... it a matter "budget". There's no worse time than the last weekend of the month,.... when the budget may still be in excess. AND, many LEOs will called upon to be working that last week and weekend to burn up that budget,... otherwise, the budget gets cut! Pay attention and you'll notice a far greater abundance at this time than at any other time. Exceptions MAY be big holiday months or those of special events. If the budget is short or over-run because of unexpected events, that last weekend will be much easier for us, motorists and others. Yes,... it's all about money. Laws are made only if profitable, otherwise they're not even considered. And of course, those of us with limited budgets can not afford to contest such laws even if a good case CAN be made.
With regard to recent comments above in previous posts,.... I truly don't feel that bicyclist or e-bikers are any worse than motorists or cyclists, both on and off-road. Some are arrogant, and feel they have right's over others. Some are plain thoughtless or inconsiderate. And still other's jus have no common sense at all. You may see a predominance of certain age groups in some of these, or maybe other generalities of experience or whatever.
OVERALL,... e-bikes users in the States are placed in odd positions here mostly because of our infrastructure and the laws of use as well as other poor laws. If there's jus 12" of space between the paved surface, white line, and the curb,... jus where are you suppose to ride your e-bike?!?!? Laws typically state your not to be on the sidewalk with bicycles and pedestrians, or even on marked bicycle paths, but you certainly have no business in the street, and either way,.... your a target of violation! You may not "WILLFULLY" or "intentionally" be in violation,... but current circumstance, and other similar circumstance, will place us in a position of making a choice where there is nothing clear and specific, or we're forced to choose the lessor violation, or maybe safer choice regardless of law. And e-bikes aren't the only ones to struggle with these matters. Heck, Segway had huge hopes that jus couldn't fit in either. And with increasing technology becoming available at a VERY rapid pace, lawmakers have become overwhelmed, and have no idea of how to manage it or in what direction they should proceed. EVs in every form have become increasingly popular and desirable,.... but will the new upcoming legal regulations be as popular or desirable too??? Or jus profitable???
Cops are just regular people who are good at taking charge of a situation. They do what they're told. And as far as tickets go, I basically drive as fast as I want and pay a set amount per year...ask me for more info.
Then sometimes you get breaks, like the other day I was set for trial for nearly $2K in tickets after a motorcycle cop followed me hauling ass in my 135i. I didn't know it was a cop and thought he wanted to play...yeah. He tried to give me the whole "I'm going to take you to jail right now" routine but couldn't carry thru with it cuz he thought it was just too funny....yeah.
Then sometimes you get breaks, like the other day I was set for trial for nearly $2K in tickets after a motorcycle cop followed me hauling ass in my 135i. I didn't know it was a cop and thought he wanted to play...yeah. He tried to give me the whole "I'm going to take you to jail right now" routine but couldn't carry thru with it cuz he thought it was just too funny....yeah.
Izits
100 W
ecycler said:
Clearly the only way to save electric mountain biking is to call for a broad reduction of government size and power.
