INFINEON CONTROLLERS FOR DUMMIES

hi
I run mine unscreened and never have a problem.
I have just bought some 9 way cable that is screened but that was just because it was how it came I was not looking for screened cable, I was looking for multi way cable to reduce the number of cables going along my frame.
Geoff
 
Ok so I hope this the correct Thread to ask this but I am doing research before building and have controller related questions

If my understanding is correct the brushless motors are wound 3ph and the controllers are putting out some sort of pwm 3ph on the three lines.

I see references to 120 degree and 60 degree but dont understand what 60 degree 3ph would look can anybody explain this for me?

Also nobody talks about freq and my understanding of a 3ph motor is related to freq not just voltage, so do the hall sensors cause the controller to shift instead of a clock?

Thanks in advance
Stephen
 
The motors are three phase machines, so need to be fed with a simulation of three sinusoidal waveforms spaced at 120 degrees to each other. The timing of these three phase waveforms is set by either feedback from Hall sensors, or by using back EMF from the motor windings themselves.

Speed is dependent on the power being delivered to the motor, which is set by PWM applied to all three phase waveforms and controlled by the throttle setting. The motor speeds up as more power is available and the sensors allow the motor phase current to stay in sync with the motor speed. Motor commutation frequency isn't controlled directly by the throttle setting.

These controllers aren't true variable frequency drives, but are actually variable power drives, with the motor phase frequency being determined by power and torque loading.

The actual waveform fed to the motor phase windings is trapezoidal when you look at it on a 'scope, rather than sinusoidal, but this still gives reasonably good results.

The 120 degree/60 degree terminology refers to the placement of the Hall sensors relative to the stator/rotor pole/magnet combination. The Infineon automatically adjusts for the two sensor placement options.

Jeremy
 
Jeremy

Every question I asked or wanted to ask in one shot.

Btw I am an old motor guy who spent years selling and repairing single and 3ph motors and control gear

Thanks
Stephen
 
Ok, this may have already been covered, but I have a cerebral hemorrhage from trying to decipher all this info, so...

I have seen these advertised to work with almost all hubmotors, is this the case? Can I use it for a WE sensorless now, than convert to a BMC later?

And adjust the LVC later as well?

Chris
 
Christobel931 said:
Can I use it for a WE sensorless now, than convert to a BMC later?
Click to expand...

The controller requires sensors unless you use the sensorless add-on board.

Just about any motor with sensors will work.

Search through Knuckles recent posts to find the sense board info.
My impression is that it technically worked but was a little clunky-funky.
If you have ever ridden an xlyte sensorless you will know what I mean.

-methods
 
Christobel931 said:
Ok, this may have already been covered, but I have a cerebral hemorrhage from trying to decipher all this info, so...

I have seen these advertised to work with almost all hubmotors, is this the case? Can I use it for a WE sensorless now, than convert to a BMC later?

And adjust the LVC later as well?

Chris
Click to expand...
hi
I have not heard of the WE have you a web link for the motor. although when first I came across this controller I thought it would work with all motors since it worked with a puma one of the motors that it is dificult to find a controller for, once we knew it worked we assumed it would work with all of the BMC family of which the PUMA is based on the same design we have found this not to be the case. there are quite a few motors that are not compatable with the infineon the strange thing is they WILL work in reverse but no amount of phase and hall swoping will find a combination that works to spin the motor in the drive direction. The same problem was found with xtlyte analog motors controllers which is why a reverse swich is fitted we now have to do the same for the infineon.

The sensorless module for the infineon works but has a glitch at about 75% throttle to stop this problem there is a pad hole to link to GND marked SLA SensorLess Adaptor I presume this fixes the problem but at a cost you loose full speed in effect not letting you get to the point where it starts to cause problems.

Geoff
 
Methods:

Thanks I figured as much about only working with sensors, I will do more research... Tons of posts to sift through!

Geoff:

I have the same kit Dogman got from HTB. My reason for looking into the controller is that I will up the power at some point, and I want a direct connect for a CA.

The motor http://www.hightekbikes.com/kits.html and controller work fine for me (for now) but, there is just no CA plug and no sensors.

75% throttle (voltage?) would be a bummer, and I'm not that skilled riding in reverse... :lol:

So I am guessing that this controller is geared towards the X5 series mostly?
 
Hello,

I have both a Xtalyte sensorless controller and the Infineon w/ the sensorless module connected to my 408. Both have the 5-pin CA connector as well.

I have not noticed the glitch reported previously and my top speed is around 43km/h. The good things compare to the Xtallyte is a better back EFM detection allowing to start almost from a dead stop whereas with the Xtalyte, a minimum speed of 7km/h is required. You have also the ebrake which is nice but for me, as where I live, it is flat, I do not exceed 0.07A regenerated so less than 2% most of the time with 14A peak flowing back to my 10A battery which is not quite good.

It seems to me that the Infineon generates more vibration under load but I need to try again my Xtatyte to confirm. The speed sensor does not properly work with CA as well.

Fredo
 
ugh that switch is useless for me. it is a normally closed switch, not what i thought. My own fault though.Thinking of getting a 50 Celsius NOS switch.
better or should I go down to 45 Celsius. It will be loose in the controller box not sunk onto anything so it will be measuring air temp inside effectively but I figure I should do it now while it is all open. I can disable it anytime if i don't like it.
 
Hi all,

I'm going to run a bafang rear motor and have the infineon controllor, 66.6v of lipo, and a metal gear installed . I have wired in the usb ttl interface and plan to use the software to set lvc and limit amps. I'm just going through all the software settings and i'm not sure what value to put in the phase current box, any ideas what would be a sensible value?

Cheers
 
richerson said:
Hi all,

I'm going to run a bafang rear motor and have the infineon controllor, 66.6v of lipo, and a metal gear installed . I have wired in the usb ttl interface and plan to use the software to set lvc and limit amps. I'm just going through all the software settings and i'm not sure what value to put in the phase current box, any ideas what would be a sensible value?

Cheers
Click to expand...
hi
use about 250% of amps value. so if the amps on the battery is set to 30 then set phase to about 70 or 75.
Geoff
 
There are two ways to limit current.

The way most people are used to seeing and thinking about is Battery Current.
The system is controlled by a maximum battery current. Same current you would see on the CA

Phase current is limiting power by the actual current running into the motor instead of the battery current.
This actually makes more sense. At very low RPM the phase current (motor current) is much higher than the battery current.
When you get up to cruising speed they equal out.

This is useful for protecting your equipment when you are doing a lot of hard acceleration and heavy loading of the motor.

Kelley uses Phase current as well as many (most?) industrial controllers. In their case, they could care less what the source current is since they are running off the wall. What they care about is motor current.


-methods
 

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i think 330R is ok, assuming 56V-(330x.065)=34.5V input to the LM317T voltage regulator.

if you use lifepo4, then the 30.5V LVC is too low, but if you have a BMS on the pack then it will shut down before it gets that low.

so you can run the controller stock with 48V, but if you use nicads like me, then you should modifiy the LVC to at least 37V, imho. i used 5k1R for the resistor to get 37V LVC for my 48V nicads.
 
Hall Controller Thumb Throttle WOT Problem from other Post.

4 Pin Thumb Throttle from Ecrazyman / Keywin with Power / Battery light on it.

Postby zukster » Sun May 10, 2009 10:24 am
Here's a weird one I'm trying to figure out.

( I never knew I was going be have to learn so much &^%$#@ stuff when I got into this. I
just wanted a bit of electric peddle assistance :!: )

I just set up my son's bike 26 Inch Bafang. 36V/350W controller. 40V Battery pack. Gonna
be nice to this one. Maybe it'll last more than a week :oops: Its also laced into a 24 Inch wheel.

Anyway - working great - except when the throttle is wide open, aka also know as WOT or
wide open throttle. As soon as you crank it so far, the power cuts out.

I was wondering about the wiring, but I didn't find anything on the forum regarding this
symptom if the wiring is wrong. Anyone else seen this before?

And the way to fix this from Keywin's Email reply is:

"add a 2.5k resistor between the white wire with the black wire."

Edit: The 2.5k resistor as above worked fine. Been solid for months now.
 
What is gong on is that you are applying just slightly more voltage to the controller than it is programmed to accept.
I dont know why they did this, but they tuned the throttle range to just that which is expected from a hall sensor throttle

This can be remedied in several ways.
Keywin is suggesting that you put a resistor in parallel with the output... That is not how I would go about it but if Keywin says it will work then just do it. That is probably the easiest way. You can do it inside the controller (cleanest) or you can just cut open the wire sleeve and do it anywhere. You could also do it inside the thumb control.

What you are really trying to do is just drop a few hundred mV off of the output of the thumb controller.

its no big deal :D

-methods
 
methods said:
What is gong on is that you are applying just slightly more voltage to the controller than it is programmed to accept.
I dont know why they did this, but they tuned the throttle range to just that which is expected from a hall sensor throttle

This can be remedied in several ways.
Keywin is suggesting that you put a resistor in parallel with the output... That is not how I would go about it but if Keywin says it will work then just do it. That is probably the easiest way. You can do it inside the controller (cleanest) or you can just cut open the wire sleeve and do it anywhere. You could also do it inside the thumb control.

What you are really trying to do is just drop a few hundred mV off of the output of the thumb controller.

its no big deal :D

-methods
Click to expand...
I bet the designer decided to check the throttle input for an abnormaly high voltage for fault protection. But I guess he exagerated a bit and set the limit too close to the maximum hall sensor output...
 
ZapPat said:
I bet the designer decided to check the throttle input for an abnormaly high voltage for fault protection. But I guess he exagerated a bit and set the limit too close to the maximum hall sensor output...
Click to expand...

Right.
The only "good" thing about it is that if there is a short between +5 and SP the controller can sense that.
That could stop a runaway bike in the case where the throttle wires get damaged.

The Kelly handles this by having a "high pedal disable" at start up then allowing the user to set "dead zones" in % on the bottom end and top end of the throttle.
This dead-zone control allows for much greater resolution.
The Kelly however would not be able to tell the difference between +5V and WOT.

-methods
 
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