A
Anonymous
Guest
Read my lips: you are talking to someone who is no longer here. I have left the sphere. Get over it.
Infinite Edit Time
- Thread starter knightmb
- Start date
liveforphysics
100 TW
nutsandvolts said:
The first step in this process is to log-out and not post again.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Every board with user-contributed content is post-at-your-own-peril.swbluto said:
As the owner has sole rights and no boundaries and the contributors have no rights, 'abuse' would be a mis-perception on the part of the contributors.
As for 're-writing history', the veracity of any content is open to question.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ah liveforphysics is right! So why are you all still gabbing and wasting my time? Talk all you want now. No more logging in.
TylerDurden
100 GW
They all say that, they all come back. (Save for Xyster.)nutsandvolts said:
There, .. i helped him a little... (ban) will discuss in moderator forum and report back to NV shortly. :wink:
edit : oh, and xyster has been browsing lately, PM 'ed him a few days ago and got a reply to say he's still alive !.. woohoo !
edit : oh, and xyster has been browsing lately, PM 'ed him a few days ago and got a reply to say he's still alive !.. woohoo !
TylerDurden
100 GW
Amazing. That guy has some self-discipline. (I was originally worried he blew his hands off; he came close a couple of times. )Ypedal said:
liveforphysics
100 TW
I did a quick forum search for the name xyzster, and I've never seen so many "we miss xyzster" type comments from such a broad type of members. I never knew who this guy is, but I did see a photo of his bike from searching, which automatically makes you want to meet him. lol From the bike, I would say something like a love child between Dr.Bass and Methy.
That is one hell of a pile of 18650 liCo cells !!! :wink:
vanilla ice
1 MW
Thats my fave charge setup right there..
liveforphysics
100 TW
Agreed.
I absolutely LOATHE everything about XLR plugs. Just seeing that many of the bulky heavy awkward plugs with awkward sockets makes me want to scream and run. If anyone has this guy's address, I'm going to send him a 100 pack of Dean's Micro connectors, which are good to 15-25amps each, and you could easily fit 9 of them in the space of a single XLR socket/plug.
I absolutely LOATHE everything about XLR plugs. Just seeing that many of the bulky heavy awkward plugs with awkward sockets makes me want to scream and run. If anyone has this guy's address, I'm going to send him a 100 pack of Dean's Micro connectors, which are good to 15-25amps each, and you could easily fit 9 of them in the space of a single XLR socket/plug.
TylerDurden
100 GW
The most significant thing about Xyster's exit, was its totality... simply gone. No bang, whimper or buh-bye. From a guy that posted about a dozen times a day. Imagine being so active here and then trying to quit cold-turkey.
[/tangent]
It is a major benefit to the members to limit the edit time, so thread integrity is ensured before some douchebag takes the axe to threads because of some perceived insult to their disembodied, anonymous, online-persona (or someone else's).
[/tangent]
It is a major benefit to the members to limit the edit time, so thread integrity is ensured before some douchebag takes the axe to threads because of some perceived insult to their disembodied, anonymous, online-persona (or someone else's).
methods
1 GW
Damn - just got bit by the new edit rules.
I 100% agree that we dont want clowns editing things after the fact.
On the other hand I am trying to build an information database - a thread where the top 5 posts are kept updated with the latest info.
This way people dont have to wade through my often times verbose and wondering threads to get what they want.
I think we need to maintain some way to have an editable post.
Perhaps the ability to concatenate information but not edit the old?
Maybe a way to create a different kind of post? Like a Gray post that is editable and clearly marked as such?
I know that we are limited by the forum software but there really is a need to be able to continuously edit some types of posts.
Not every thread needs to be linear...
-methods
I 100% agree that we dont want clowns editing things after the fact.
On the other hand I am trying to build an information database - a thread where the top 5 posts are kept updated with the latest info.
This way people dont have to wade through my often times verbose and wondering threads to get what they want.
I think we need to maintain some way to have an editable post.
Perhaps the ability to concatenate information but not edit the old?
Maybe a way to create a different kind of post? Like a Gray post that is editable and clearly marked as such?
I know that we are limited by the forum software but there really is a need to be able to continuously edit some types of posts.
Not every thread needs to be linear...
-methods
methods
1 GW
While I am here -
Many of us who are really into whatever technical subject we are working on dont make it over to any of the General sections like this one.
With this sort of a poll you are getting the opinion of a limited subset of users - perhaps not a representative subset
The only reason I found this is because I searched for "Cant Edit"
-methods
P.S. There was a famous poll many years ago about the outcome of a presidential election. It was done by telephone. Only problem was that back then only a few people (the rich) had telephones so the election ended up being a landslide surprise in the opposite direction. Polls are only as good as the cross-section of the people who are polled.
They are subject to bias.
Many of us who are really into whatever technical subject we are working on dont make it over to any of the General sections like this one.
With this sort of a poll you are getting the opinion of a limited subset of users - perhaps not a representative subset
The only reason I found this is because I searched for "Cant Edit"
-methods
P.S. There was a famous poll many years ago about the outcome of a presidential election. It was done by telephone. Only problem was that back then only a few people (the rich) had telephones so the election ended up being a landslide surprise in the opposite direction. Polls are only as good as the cross-section of the people who are polled.
They are subject to bias.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Don't gurus get limited special powers, like editing? Might be do-able.
Takemehome
1 kW
methods said:
It might be possible for the admin to grant "edit power" to certain tech members and revoke it if they abuse it.
( Abuse would be reported by other members if any. )
You would be kind of moderator of your own threads, with the possibility to remove your self inflicted hijackings. :lol:
Sheriff Jon
100 W
TylerDurden said:
My 2 cents.....
I wasn't around when the Poll was put up nearly 2 years ago, and I imagine that the issue of to be or not to be has since been resolved. I know that on other boards the Moderators or "Gurus" as they are called on here have the ability to 'edit' posts (including their own) at any time. It is a perk and can be used for the good, as well as abused.
I believe that we (all members) should have the ability to 'edit' our posts for a set time limit, as using Preview dosen't always catch any spelling or brain to finger errors. But...IMO, just like in real life we all (Moderators alike) need to be accountable for our actions and on the interwebs that means our "words". If you act like a douche cannoe and say whatever you want wherever you want out in public...your face will likely end up on the business end of someons fist, or on a ride in the back of a PoPo mobile. Butt on the Wild Wild Web it seems, at least for some, that there is a no holds bard mentality because there are often NO consiquences for the words that we type. And although I can understand the afterthought process that went into so many "." posts, it gets a bit annoying and just as offensive as the original edited content after the umpteenth time.
TylerDurden
100 GW
ATM, we have three classes of officials:
Admins have full power
Moderators have topic/member tools: editorial/locking/banning/topic relocation
Gurus have access to certain threads locked from public contribution
I expect Guru-class can get some more juice; but I am not certain.
Admins have full power
Moderators have topic/member tools: editorial/locking/banning/topic relocation
Gurus have access to certain threads locked from public contribution
I expect Guru-class can get some more juice; but I am not certain.
vanilla ice
1 MW
I like the edit, hell I think I use it every time I post.. having a time period limit seems reasonable to me tho. LIke a week would work. Maybe have an exception for files, where you could forever edit those.
methods said:
I totally agree with you here. I really have started hating the new rules that have been imposed to limit freedom and functionality and basically inhibit the possible modes of information, based on a knee-jerk reaction to isolated incidences. First, I wasn't allowed to add links to new battery test results in my original post in the battery testing thread because you weren't allowed to have more than 10 links, and now I can't even update it!
Some threads/posts are meant to constantly update fresh-information/updates (Especially sales threads - If the person decides to stop selling the item or something has changed, THEY SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY SO ON THE FIRST POST as that's where new people to the thread are going to be reading first.). Some threads are supposed to be databases, one of which was my own. I kept a compilation of links to test results for batteries scattered across the forums, but now I suddenly can't even update the post.
BTW, gurus don't get special editing powers. So-called "gurus" just have the ability to add information to the technical information sub-forum. To get guru status, you just basically have to ask Fechter if you can post to the sub-forum and he'll grant it to you and remind you that it isn't meant for general banter. If you post fairly erroneous information at a consistent rate, it seems likely the permission to post to the sub-forum would be taken away.
I am fine with only being able to edit up until someone else posts after you. As soon as a followup post is submitted, nothing before that in the thread can be edited.
I've beta tested forums (like OtakuBooty) that had no edit function at all.
That particular forum now has a *append* edit function, after much demand, which leaves all original content intact and simply appends whatever you "edit" to the end of the post you edited. But that forum is completely built from scratch, so I don't even know if this is possible in PHPBB without someone writing a module to do that, or rewriting some of the PHPBB code itself.
I do think that an author might want to retract things said, but I also agree with those that have said that you shouldn't post something you're not willing to sign your name to, and live with having said.
As for the recent incidents that have brought this thread back to life, I have withheld most of what I have thought about it, and reduced it to this:
I think it's very unfair to members (like me) who not only had no idea there was a dispute going on, but had nothing to do with it, and were quite interested and even involved in technical discussion threads that suddenly were destroyed by an author's self-deletion of most of his/her posted content.
That act doesn't make sense to me, but I have seen such acts before (not on forums, however), and they generally hurt only people who were uninvolved in the dispute, with those in the dispute generally being unaffected because they didn't care about the stuff anyway, already being in disagreement with the person responsible before that. I don't know if that's the case here; I'm still too new to know who dislikes who, for the most part (some of it is obvious).
For my part, I'm only here for the technical aspects. I'd be perfectly happy if there were no toxic thread section, or if all toxic threads were moved there and locked immediately, as if they were spam. I don't think anyone should be allowed to create a new thread *in* the toxic area, because I don't think such discussions as I have seen going on there belong on an otherwise reputable and enjoyable place like ES. There are plenty of other places on the web for that kind of thing, and almost nowhere else like ES for discussing the technical things we do.
Sure, I respond to some of the General Discussion threads, but if they were never there in the first place I'd not have lost a lot, compared to what we all lost in the self-deletion incident.
I don't think that incident would have happened at all if there were no Toxic area discussions going on, especially about what has been going on recently. It only inflames people's feelings about each other, when most of those personal attitudes and acts would be kept out of discussions without it.
There will always be people that dislike each other, and even taunt each other just because they can. I don't think that should be allowed to destroy a valuable technical resource like ES.
I treat ES, and any other technical places I visit, as if I were working there or dealing with other professionals in a professional capacity, and I expect something similar in return from most people. If they treat me badly, well, I can always choose to ignore them, and if they cause problems with a lot of people they'll probably be dealt with by the mods anyway, usually before I have to worry about it. I'm used to working in retail, where most people there are still children, emotionally, and often behaviorally. Generally I don't have to be their teacher or manager, but I still treat them as professionally as they allow me to, and try to show them by example how they might choose to behave to become better at working, no matter where they choose to do that work, or in what field.
But I also know I am not like most people. Most people are emotionally responsive to everyone around them in automatic ways that they don't even realize, much less know how to control. I have Asperger's Syndrome, which leaves me unable to automatically respond to emotional and general body language, but instead must conciously decipher and respond to it. (It also leaves me with other problems I have to overcome, but that is the most crucial difference between me and most of you).
Text is my home, my safe forte of communication, because there *is* no body language, emotional or otherwise, and makes me even with everyone else.
That does mean I write a lot more, because I have a LOT to say, most of which most people never read (I get a lot of TL,DRs; their loss), and it is difficult to pare it down to what normal people use. Mostly, that's because I am used to having to explain other people to myself, and often myself to other people. Sometimes, it's because I just have a lot of detail that needs to be expressed.
And that's my thoughts on this whole thing, in a nut tree.
(what, you expected me to say it would fit in a *shell*?)
I've beta tested forums (like OtakuBooty) that had no edit function at all.
That particular forum now has a *append* edit function, after much demand, which leaves all original content intact and simply appends whatever you "edit" to the end of the post you edited. But that forum is completely built from scratch, so I don't even know if this is possible in PHPBB without someone writing a module to do that, or rewriting some of the PHPBB code itself.
I do think that an author might want to retract things said, but I also agree with those that have said that you shouldn't post something you're not willing to sign your name to, and live with having said.
As for the recent incidents that have brought this thread back to life, I have withheld most of what I have thought about it, and reduced it to this:
I think it's very unfair to members (like me) who not only had no idea there was a dispute going on, but had nothing to do with it, and were quite interested and even involved in technical discussion threads that suddenly were destroyed by an author's self-deletion of most of his/her posted content.
That act doesn't make sense to me, but I have seen such acts before (not on forums, however), and they generally hurt only people who were uninvolved in the dispute, with those in the dispute generally being unaffected because they didn't care about the stuff anyway, already being in disagreement with the person responsible before that. I don't know if that's the case here; I'm still too new to know who dislikes who, for the most part (some of it is obvious).
For my part, I'm only here for the technical aspects. I'd be perfectly happy if there were no toxic thread section, or if all toxic threads were moved there and locked immediately, as if they were spam. I don't think anyone should be allowed to create a new thread *in* the toxic area, because I don't think such discussions as I have seen going on there belong on an otherwise reputable and enjoyable place like ES. There are plenty of other places on the web for that kind of thing, and almost nowhere else like ES for discussing the technical things we do.
Sure, I respond to some of the General Discussion threads, but if they were never there in the first place I'd not have lost a lot, compared to what we all lost in the self-deletion incident.
I don't think that incident would have happened at all if there were no Toxic area discussions going on, especially about what has been going on recently. It only inflames people's feelings about each other, when most of those personal attitudes and acts would be kept out of discussions without it.
There will always be people that dislike each other, and even taunt each other just because they can. I don't think that should be allowed to destroy a valuable technical resource like ES.
I treat ES, and any other technical places I visit, as if I were working there or dealing with other professionals in a professional capacity, and I expect something similar in return from most people. If they treat me badly, well, I can always choose to ignore them, and if they cause problems with a lot of people they'll probably be dealt with by the mods anyway, usually before I have to worry about it. I'm used to working in retail, where most people there are still children, emotionally, and often behaviorally. Generally I don't have to be their teacher or manager, but I still treat them as professionally as they allow me to, and try to show them by example how they might choose to behave to become better at working, no matter where they choose to do that work, or in what field.
But I also know I am not like most people. Most people are emotionally responsive to everyone around them in automatic ways that they don't even realize, much less know how to control. I have Asperger's Syndrome, which leaves me unable to automatically respond to emotional and general body language, but instead must conciously decipher and respond to it. (It also leaves me with other problems I have to overcome, but that is the most crucial difference between me and most of you).
Text is my home, my safe forte of communication, because there *is* no body language, emotional or otherwise, and makes me even with everyone else.
That does mean I write a lot more, because I have a LOT to say, most of which most people never read (I get a lot of TL,DRs; their loss), and it is difficult to pare it down to what normal people use. Mostly, that's because I am used to having to explain other people to myself, and often myself to other people. Sometimes, it's because I just have a lot of detail that needs to be expressed. And that's my thoughts on this whole thing, in a nut tree.
(what, you expected me to say it would fit in a *shell*?)
Reid Welch
1 MW
Have not read this thread. It's too much to sort through. 73% voted to leave the edit feature alone.
They lost. They are NOT ES owners, but vassals, poll-teased, as if their votes really counted for anything more than fish-wishes.
In brief: Yesterday the edit-ability time was cut from infinite, to something like one hour.
This makes it impossible for me to fix old postings, all of which are liable to contain typos, missed words,
inserted wordings that ruin the meaning of intent.
Right of the poster: it's HIS copyright stuff. Maybe he wants later to make a book (not likely).
If E.S. takes the attitude (understandable) of LOCKING the poster from removing his content,
yeah, sure, gaping holes in the database result from resigned, disgusted members.
SO WHAT? It was the poster's intellectual property!
Xyster was "difficult" as I am. Yet it was his thought and thought power that energized this place.
Same goes for "crazy" Randy Draper, etc.
As for me: I will not...would never erase, wholesale, my old work here...but...now can never erase my old content from this place,
such as silly or OT content that helps nothing but only might rile some members.
I would not want to, at any rate or time, at all, to have my thousands of hours of DOCUMENTARY threads, insta-erased, as has been done
to entire threads here. Gone.
That was MY choice, that some of my year 2006 work yest lives, oh, and thanks to, too the tender mercies of management,
yes, that my tech content here yet lives, but now it's ES's choice to, in effect, hijack all my tech content, or kill it all, which IS mine;
and I WILL transplant my better, cogent, ES postings, in time to my own website, for safe-keep.
Otherwise: just one mod, can and will push a button, and steal my life's latter work.
I can still do that by doing the "quote", then copy, paste to the new forum.
I need time to do all that. So before erasing my "cruiser bike thread" and a dozen others, let me have time! Please!
But I see that some panels like general are being pruned. WHY? That erases social history of this ebike movement.
It is a hypocrisy of sorts: The poster can't remove his posting if he's in a tiff, or whatever. Nuts and Volts is now a non-member;
he erased all his content just the other day.
And the hypocrisy: ES is erasing old postings anyway! Are "tech" postings of three years ago any more important, really, than,
say, conversations of LIFE, that appear at General? I say "no". But I say "yes", all postings should remain at ES forever.
How fascinating they all will be many years from now, to see the people come and go with the times.
I would never erase any postings other than pure hate-speech (personal attacks like "reid you faggot!",
and then email the troll with "advisement", along with a copy of his or her offensive post. Be delicate!
But be resolute! The social variety here is full spectrum: from super-sane rocket scientists, to touchy-feely mushroom eaters.
They must all somehow get along. Tolerance for the other guy is the only way to prevent death. Some people get banned.
We never hear from them again. They leave the hobby. Sometimes, they just give up on life.
A Movie and don't watch it if you don't like movies. Don't click on what you don't care to see.
Add "Reid" to you foe list if you don't like what I may say. Do not troll me. I am part of no "agenda" but for that of
the maximum amount possible of free speech: your "rights" end where the other guy's toes begin, you know?
Don't click on what you don't like! Don't kill people for presenting ideas that don't match your own,
WOMAN in the MOON:
[youtube]eOAtvoFV-yQ[/youtube]
Anything Fritz Lang is much more permanently valuable than any content or discontent here, imo!
freeforums.org offers unlimited free forum hosting to anyone for any legal purpose.
They lost. They are NOT ES owners, but vassals, poll-teased, as if their votes really counted for anything more than fish-wishes.
In brief: Yesterday the edit-ability time was cut from infinite, to something like one hour.
This makes it impossible for me to fix old postings, all of which are liable to contain typos, missed words,
inserted wordings that ruin the meaning of intent.
Right of the poster: it's HIS copyright stuff. Maybe he wants later to make a book (not likely).
If E.S. takes the attitude (understandable) of LOCKING the poster from removing his content,
yeah, sure, gaping holes in the database result from resigned, disgusted members.
SO WHAT? It was the poster's intellectual property!
Xyster was "difficult" as I am. Yet it was his thought and thought power that energized this place.
Same goes for "crazy" Randy Draper, etc.
As for me: I will not...would never erase, wholesale, my old work here...but...now can never erase my old content from this place,
such as silly or OT content that helps nothing but only might rile some members.
I would not want to, at any rate or time, at all, to have my thousands of hours of DOCUMENTARY threads, insta-erased, as has been done
to entire threads here. Gone.
That was MY choice, that some of my year 2006 work yest lives, oh, and thanks to, too the tender mercies of management,
yes, that my tech content here yet lives, but now it's ES's choice to, in effect, hijack all my tech content, or kill it all, which IS mine;
and I WILL transplant my better, cogent, ES postings, in time to my own website, for safe-keep.
Otherwise: just one mod, can and will push a button, and steal my life's latter work.
I can still do that by doing the "quote", then copy, paste to the new forum.
I need time to do all that. So before erasing my "cruiser bike thread" and a dozen others, let me have time! Please!
But I see that some panels like general are being pruned. WHY? That erases social history of this ebike movement.
It is a hypocrisy of sorts: The poster can't remove his posting if he's in a tiff, or whatever. Nuts and Volts is now a non-member;
he erased all his content just the other day.
And the hypocrisy: ES is erasing old postings anyway! Are "tech" postings of three years ago any more important, really, than,
say, conversations of LIFE, that appear at General? I say "no". But I say "yes", all postings should remain at ES forever.
How fascinating they all will be many years from now, to see the people come and go with the times.
I would never erase any postings other than pure hate-speech (personal attacks like "reid you faggot!",
and then email the troll with "advisement", along with a copy of his or her offensive post. Be delicate!
But be resolute! The social variety here is full spectrum: from super-sane rocket scientists, to touchy-feely mushroom eaters.
They must all somehow get along. Tolerance for the other guy is the only way to prevent death. Some people get banned.
We never hear from them again. They leave the hobby. Sometimes, they just give up on life.
A Movie and don't watch it if you don't like movies. Don't click on what you don't care to see.
Add "Reid" to you foe list if you don't like what I may say. Do not troll me. I am part of no "agenda" but for that of
the maximum amount possible of free speech: your "rights" end where the other guy's toes begin, you know?
Don't click on what you don't like! Don't kill people for presenting ideas that don't match your own,
WOMAN in the MOON:
[youtube]eOAtvoFV-yQ[/youtube]
Anything Fritz Lang is much more permanently valuable than any content or discontent here, imo!
freeforums.org offers unlimited free forum hosting to anyone for any legal purpose.
Reid Welch
1 MW
Agreed, it is a Catch 22. Book publishers are notoriously snotty. They are a bit slow to learn the New Reality:Miles said:Reid Welch said:
I say "yes" and "yes"
if an author writes, what can in effect, become a paper book, in bits, in essays, on the net, the Publisher tends to say (sniff) "We don't publish second hand goods".
Well, they are to die off.
Still, if Xyster wants to remove his content, it is HIS copyright.
Not that I am litiginous (am not), it seems wrong and is probably legally-challengable,
to say, in effect to an ex-member: "your old postingc are OURS."
No. US copyright law, and these general forum guidelines, say that writings, where ever legally placed,
remain the property of the writer, not of the hosting site. If I were to publish an invention-idea,
and then take it right down, two hours later, second thoughts...I can't do that here, now!
In theory, that would make the idea unpatentable, as it has been "published". Well, two hours in error
and no 'bots have picked up the item? It has not, in moral-effect, been disclosed.
PS: I miss Randy Draper's outlandish claims and epic video bike rides.
I miss deafscooter's secretive-ness about doping SLA batteries with....dilithium? to make them out perform
and weight less than lead-free lithium (a rare commodity, lol).
I miss Paul Knox. WHY did he leave here? Where is DOM?
And in a month or whenever, if I, founding member number five, am not here,
it was not my choice to leave. I do not quit. I only crash bikes.
PS: I am nearly colourblind. But I can see blue well, and bolded green shows up.
If I recall correctly, I have PM'd =some= of my worries, ONLY to Michael Brown, ES Owner.
The rest of you volunteer good guys, I want to leave entirely (almost) out of this mess.
Ypedal, I forgive you.
Reid, member number five, until further banned.
305 666 0677
