Inside the '-NEW-' BMSBattery 12 MOSFET 500 Watt Controller

[DISH]

I bought another BMSBattery 12 MOSFET 500 Watt Controller and it arrived yesterday. Although it has the same title as the controller I purchased and reviewed last year, it is NOT the same controller that I previously purchased and reviewed here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13691.

This controller is available for 25$US from http://www.bmsbattery.com/.

You can also find it on eBay by searching for the eBay username ecitypower. Shipping may seem a bit expensive at 24 $US but they use Federal Express (at least to the USA) and it only took THREE DAYS from Guangzhou, China to NE USA and this included Saturday and Sunday!!! I had the tracking number and was amazed that it kept moving over the weekend and arrived Monday morning. It was shipped LATE Friday evening just before midnight.

BE WARNED: Communicating with these people can be an exercise in frustration. It may depend on who you get as I sometimes get very clear responses and at other times it's obvious they did not comprehend what I was asking.

I have been running the older model of this controller at 60 volts @ 25 amps (1500 watts) for over 6 months with no problem feeding a gutted 350 watt Bionx motor. After three failures of the internal Bionx controller (inside the motor!) I had enough. I brought three phase and sensor wires out of the motor and called it good. I am presently running the system without the hall sensors. Only the 3 phase wires are hooked up. I have no idea as to whether or not the controller I just got will work as well or not. Only time will tell. My main purpose of writing this review is to alert everyone that what is being sold now is NOT the same as what I reviewed here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13691.

It looks like the controller still features regen braking which works VERY well on the older model. This model appears to add EABS but it looks like cruise may be missing in the newer model.





View attachment 8


^^^ Hookup diagram on the controller is NOT in English

English version is posted here:


Hookup diagram in PDF format:
View attachment 912Mosfet.pdf


^^^ MOSFETS

Note: Not all the MOSFETS are the same in my controller???

They are left to right as follows:
1 = T430 BV941N
2 = T430 BV9413
3 = T430 BV941N
4 = T430 BV941N
5 = T430 BV941N
6 = T430 BV941N
7 = T430 BV931C
8 = T430 BV941N
9 = T430 BV9316
10 = T430 BV941
11 = T430 BV9413
12 = T430 BV941N

The T430 is probably some kind of date code. However, so far I can't seem to find any info on these devices. Anyone have a clue?

===== UPDATE:2010 July 28 =====
T430 appears to be the device number.
View attachment AOT430.pdf
Thanks go to mwkeefer for figuring this out


^^^ CPU


^^^ Water seal gasket. Looks and feels like a sheet of clear silicon rubber!





Capacitors are rated at 63 volts I'm going to attempt to run this controller as the same voltage I'm running the older model at. (60 volts)

View attachment 1
^^^ Click to enlarge! All writing on the board is legible when viewed full size.

I will add more info after I run some tests.

 

[DISH]

Microprocessor applications datasheet:
View attachment ST8MS_Microcontroller_Applications.pdf

 

[DISH]

Microprocessor applications datasheet:

Another duplicate post.

I entered the message ONCE and clicked on SUBMIT once but the post was entered TWICE !!!

This is getting EXTREMELY irritating and is why I seldom visit and post on this forum as I feel I'm making a mess of things.

I've used Internet Explorer and Firefox on three different computers this evening and have had this problem on and off every time I post. I thought it might be due to the fact that I had multiple browser windows open so I could cut 'n paste but this time I only had one window open when I clicked on SUBMIT.

Result? Once again two identical posts were entered with the same exact time stamp...

 

[mwkeefer]

FETs may not be an exact match but the datasheet should be close enough for government work:
http://www.aosmd.com/pdfs/datasheet/AOT430.pdf

These are the same as in the e-bikekit.com geared 6 FET controller and apparently also in the old controllers Brett White was selling (or not selling depending on how you look at it).

Largely they are junk but they will work fine up to 75v (atleast in my limited testing of them).

Hope it helps and thanks for the breakdown on the 12FET from BMSBattery... I will go back over your thread in the morning and try to answer any questions about running / modding that controller for higher voltage ... been too long a day to do the tech think tonight

-Mike

 

[DISH]

Thanks for the datasheet mwkeefer. What I took as a date code (T430) is apparently the device number!

I figured they were pretty much junk (what does one expect for a controller that cost $25?) but that also applies to the devices in the older model and I've been running that controller at 60 volts @ 25 amps (1500 watts) for over 6 months and now in hot weather with no problems.

I did limited testing of the newer model today at the same power level (60 volts at 25 amps) and so far nothing blew up. (All the caps are rated at 63 volts, same as the older model.) I'll need to get out on the road and give it a real workout to see if anything blows....

I plan on running these controllers till they blow then (if there's anything left ) put better devices in them. So far the older model has taken everything I can throw at it when run at the 60 volt level.

I had some difficulty getting all the photos to to display and somehow the following photo was omitted.


^^^ Click to enlarge! All writing on the board is legible when viewed full size.
Underside of the '-NEW-' BMSBattery 12 MOSFET 500 Watt Controller.

 

[dnmun]

first thing to do is switch to google chrome.

faster, easier, and it's from google.

 

[mwkeefer]

dnmun - google's fanboy
-Mike
- jk

 

[kentlim26]

BMSbattery, to me, they seem their deliever system is Slow. i have paid my item by paypal 26July2010. till today August 10, they have yet to send me. if people who abit hurry to recieved their purchase items, the buy must wait.. i bought my hub motor from Conhismotor will takes only 4days, Cyclone is fastest only 3days. vpower is also fast too,, less then a week. their system for BMSbattery seem very hard to improved their sending. how come so lousy ?..

kent

 

[adrian_sm]

I got the impression when dealing with them that they don't actually stock any product.

You place an order with them, then they go ask another supplier/manufacturer for the product.

One the positive, side this means their overheads can't get much lower, resulting in very cheap prices.
But on the negative side, you don't really know when you are going to get your parts.

- Adrian

 

[DAND214]

Since they are sourcing new products all the time, you never know if you will get what was listed or the same as the last you ordered.
Dan

 

[friedwires]

i just ordered a controller from them yesterday,hopefully it wont take too long for delivery

 

[kentlim26]

hi everyone,

Ordered on 26 july 2010, today they gave me a tracking number. 11/ aug/2010 , that is upon my request. about 2weeks + 2 days.

today is 14 augut 2010. i just received by battery. it takes only 2days from date she wrote. Foshan to singapore. items is good and is
excellent build battery. every wiring is solid. AAA+

kentlim

 

[friedwires]

i just recieved my controller today,it took eight days,maybe they decided to get their shit together,i'll post pics later

 

[kentlim26]

8 days is fast.. i think if i am them, i will post to you immediately. or not more then 48hours. ( most of the sellers will do that ) if there is a lot of items, there might be a delay. it is their work,, if have 8 hours, i think myself can pack at least to 50 customers.. 8 days is acceptable !! i ever send my cyclone controller to taiwan for repair, it will takes me only 10mins... To wrap the box and send. since if is their job, they should be much faster then me.

cheers.
kentlim

 

[friedwires]

well the box that they shipped it in was kind of small with no real padding in it ,but the controller is straight with no dents or scratches.i went ahead and opened it up to have a look see and it turns out to be a 15 fet controller.theres also a shit load of solder on the traces,and the shunts are intact.it even looks to be pretty water resistant.it would have been nice if they had sent an english wiring diagram.but thanks to you guys,i'll make due.

 

[friedwires]

sorry about the crappy camera phone pics

 

[friedwires]

the new controller works great,i managed to figure out the regen. braking.the brown wires with mating plugs enables it when plugged together,the single hi v brake wire tied to positive puts the brakes on,and the two low v brake wires shorted together also puts the brakes on.as far as i can tell this controller has no cruise control.i'm still waiting for jack to send an english wire diagram.maybe im missing something.

 

[DISH]

I tested and confirmed that the older model DID have a cruise control function. However, since I live in the foothills of the Allegheny Mountains (3100 foot peaks) I don't have the luxury of level roads where I can use a cruise control so never made much use of it.

Because I had such great luck with the first controller (over 5000 miles on it in a year!) I bought another one for my other trike. As far as I can determine the newer model does NOT have a cruise control. However, I never spent much time looking for it. Mine is the 12 FET model. I've not tested the 15 FET model yet.

In this area regenerative braking is a LOT more useful than cruise control as it slows the bike down enough that I only have to use the regular brakes for a complete stop and this prevents the regular disc brakes from overheating while blasting down the side of the mountain. Instead of using the extra energy to heat the brakes, it's dumped back into the battery and I sometimes arrive at my destination with a higher battery voltage than when I left home. Of course going back up the mountain is a different story! I noticed a HUGE difference (reduced brake pad wear) since I started using regenerative braking and that in itself makes regenerative braking worth it. If you live in the flat lands then cruise control would probably be a more useful function than regenerative braking.

Speaking of going back up the mountain, I just recently installed a new Li-Ion battery pack. This one is charged to 64.0 volts full charge and is a bit stiffer under load than my old battery pack. Keep in mind the capacitors in this controller are rated at 63 volts so I do NOT recommend this and am prepared for the day when they short but so far I seem to be getting away with it.

Those reading this might be interested in this:


This is what my 350 watt Bionx motor did to my rear tire when I jammed the throttle wide open and pulled out of the driveway during my first test at 64.0 volts using the new controller. I made it about ten feet when the trike started to fishtail and I realized the rear tire went flat. When I started to take the rear wheel off is when I realized I had rotated the tire on the rear wheel far enough to break off the Schrader valve! I took a short walk and found the valve stem right where the end of the driveway meets the highway so this happened almost immediately when I opened the throttle.

This is on a heavy gauge 20 inch (47x406) knobby BMX tube and tire. I had just got done checking tire air pressure and it was 5 pounds above max. so I know low tire pressure did NOT cause this. It simply was too much torque applied too fast to the rear wheel. This controller (and the older model) have turned my 350 watt 20 MPH Bionx motors into 35+ MPH monsters!

I now have TWO 350 watt Bionx motors running on this type of controller. Both Bionx motors failed when the original Bionx controller (which is built inside the motor) failed while blasting down a mountain at 42 to 43 MPH. At that speed the back EMF is above the breakdown of the MOSFETs that Bionx used and caused them to go dead short. So far that has not happened with the motor connected to this controller.

I've been running the 350 watt Bionx motor at the 1500 watt level for about a year with the old controller at 58 volts. At 64 volts I'm seeing ~1650 watts. These figures make sense since the controller limits max current to just a bit over 25 amps as confirmed by the Cycle Analyst...

 

[DISH]

This may be a bit off topic but I wanted to point out that when you start getting into these kind of power levels (1650 watts) you have to pay attention to the type of tubes and tires that you are using. The good part of all of this is the controller apparently can take it and so can the 350 watt Bionx motor.

I replaced the tire and went for another ride. About three miles into the ride I could tell that something wasn't quite right with the back wheel. It was starting to thump like the tire wasn't seated properly. I've had that issue before and didn't think too much about it figuring I'd deal with it when I got home.

Back home and another 10 miles on the tire, I found this:



This time the TIRE FAILED !!!

This was a bit of a hard ride up and down the sides of a couple of nearby mountains with speeds hitting 43 MPH and lots of regenerative braking (sometimes for several minutes) going down the other side of the hill.

This is (or WAS!) a cheap BMX tire (HAALO 20x1.75) which I got on sale. Just goes to prove that quite often you get what you pay for. They are probably OK for a kid's bike but obviously have no business attached to a hub motor. This tire had less than 15 miles on it when it failed. Although the tread looks new, the sidewalls look they they were dragged behind a car then run over with a truck! They seem to perform OK on the NON POWERED front wheels of the trike so I'll use my remaining stock in that position.

I noticed when I put this tire on (TWICE, once after it rotated on the wheel and sheared off the Schrader valve and the second time after replacing the tube) that it didn't seem to fit the wheel properly. No it wasn't loose or too big. It was so F%%^$&% tight that it was a struggle to get it on (or off) the wheel. That's probably what contributed to the first failure when it rotated on the wheel and sheared off the Schrader valve. I should have known better and stopped right there!

I went back to the 47x406 (20x1.75) Michelin Diabolo Cool tire which I've been using for the past couple of years on rear hub motors with no problem.

I don't even want to think of those on here that are dumping 5 or 10 KW into the back wheel!!

 

[jondoh]

Check your rim too. Looks like it's bulging out a little. Might need a new rim. Check out ypedal's video on how to lace hub motors into rims.

 

[DISH]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I will try to be brief as this topic is about the 500 watt BMS Battery controller NOT about tires and tubes. The only reason I posted my experience was to demonstrate that this controller appears to be able to do a LOT more than 500 watts to the point where one has to be careful what tires and tubes are used.

As far as the rim in concerned, when I went back and looked at the photos I saw what appeared to be stretch marks on the rim in the photos I posted previously. However, when I looked at the rim those marks were NOT there. There were Moire patterns created when I compressed the photos a bit too much to try to get them to post. I updated the photos and those marks are not there.

The rim has in excess of 24,000 miles on it as I ride both my trikes a LOT, so it's definitely not going to appear new especially since I ride all year long and the bike is subjected to salt spray. However, mechanically it appears to be fine. I have always used good tires such as the 47x406 (20x1.75) Michelin Diabolo Cool tire and a heavy duty puncture resistant tube and have never had any problems.

Recently I ran across what I thought was a super deal. TEN 20x1.75 HAALO tires for $25 ($2.50 each). I've had nothing but trouble with them. They are hard to put on, hard to get off, don't wear well and are failure prone. The tube came through the tread on the first failure. Second one rotated on the wheel. Third one, the sidewall ripped.

Attached is a comparison between the HAALO and Michelin Diabolo Cool tire. I still have the HAALO tires on the front but when it comes times to replace them (in about a month) I'll be putting Michelin Diabolo Cool tires on the front as well.


Both are 20x1.75 tires but the 47x406 (20x1.75) Michelin Diabolo Cool tire has a LOT more rubber!!! The HAALO tire feels like cheap plastic and is noticeably lighter in weight. I can put the Michelin tire on using only my hands. It takes everything I have to get the HAALO tire on the rim and then it's a struggle to get it to seat properly. I was told it IS the correct tire for this rim. My opinion is they are so cheaply made that every tire fits differently and NONE of them fit properly.

My other trike has a brand new rim on the rear wheel and I've had similar problems trying to use 20x1.75 HAALO tires. All those problems went away when I put the Michelin Diabolo Cool tire on the rim.

I tried some other cross lacing spoke patterns a couple of years ago when all this started but went back to radial lacing. That's what the manufacturer recommended for this rim and motor and it seems to work OK. I can't argue with 24,000+ miles with no failures (other than the Bionx electrical system failing) which is why I went to the BMS Battery controller. Looking back that's the best thing that ever happened to the Bionx system. Instead of an 18 MPH wimp I now have a 37+ MPH monster trike!!!

PS - Something I noticed (after I took the photos), otherwise I would have included it.....

The valve stem sticks out about a half inch when the Michelin Diabolo is on the rim. When I have the HAALO tire on the rim the valve stem sticks out about an inch and a half. That's how much smaller the HAALO tire is!!! Keep in mind both have stamped on the sidewall 20x1.75....

 

[DISH]

Thanks for the suggestions.
...... Rest deleted

Looks like I'm still having issues with duplicate posts.

Since I can not delete the post I took the liberty of deleting the text....

 

[psicoticos]

how should it be connected to the high voltage brake wire?

 

[pchen92]

Hi,

I have this controller and I want to connect my Zippy lipo pack. What am I suppose to do with the orange wire that has to be connected to the battery pack ?
Can't get the three wires connected to my battery pack so that doesn't work...

 

[psicoticos]

in my controller I must connect 2 red wire together, one big and one small, and the black to battery.
In your controller probably the small red wire is orange.