steveo
100 kW
Mike1 said:
omg is this the first blown 18 mosfet controller???
noooo!!!
I wonder what went wrong with that controller? ..
SHOW US MORE PICS OF THE PCB
-steveo
Instant Start 18 fet Infineon Boards are here...
- Thread starter methods
- Start date
omg is this the first blown 18 mosfet controller???
noooo!!!
I wonder what went wrong with that controller? ..
SHOW US MORE PICS OF THE PCB
-steveo
I'm working on more photos.
It's really odd that that particular track melted when the track on the other side of the board (which had been beefed up) was untouched. I can only think that the big capacitor was only connected on the upper side of the board.
It's really odd that that particular track melted when the track on the other side of the board (which had been beefed up) was untouched. I can only think that the big capacitor was only connected on the upper side of the board.
gwhy!
100 kW
Hi Mike,
What voltage are you running at ?. Was there any chance that the controller got wet/damp, It doesn't look like a full blown short that has caused that ( from what i can see from the first pic ) If the cap shorted it would have disintegrated with a large bang ( its there any burn marks in the case ) . Have you measured the fets, are they still ok ?.
edit: More pics would be good, Looking at the picture again there do appear to be a bit of splatter and a main area where it came from ( just under left side fet ) has any sm components gone missing from this area .
What voltage are you running at ?. Was there any chance that the controller got wet/damp, It doesn't look like a full blown short that has caused that ( from what i can see from the first pic ) If the cap shorted it would have disintegrated with a large bang ( its there any burn marks in the case ) . Have you measured the fets, are they still ok ?.
edit: More pics would be good, Looking at the picture again there do appear to be a bit of splatter and a main area where it came from ( just under left side fet ) has any sm components gone missing from this area .
I'm only running 72V so I thought it would be safe to leave the main breaker on during charging.
I'm going to try to clean it up a bit today and post some better pictures. Two phases measured low resistance to VCC before I took it out of the case. I'll check again now I've cleaned off a little of the burnt stuff.
Casing was well sealed, no damp or water in there.
I'm going to try to clean it up a bit today and post some better pictures. Two phases measured low resistance to VCC before I took it out of the case. I'll check again now I've cleaned off a little of the burnt stuff.
Casing was well sealed, no damp or water in there.
Here's another clue.
As you can see one of the fet legs melted. This is the seventh fet from the wiring end (phase B low side?).
Here are some measurements before I start removing fets.
Phase B shorted to GND
Phase C shorted to VCC
50 ohms VCC to GND.
As you can see one of the fet legs melted. This is the seventh fet from the wiring end (phase B low side?).
Here are some measurements before I start removing fets.
Phase B shorted to GND
Phase C shorted to VCC
50 ohms VCC to GND.
gwhy!
100 kW
Hi Mike,
It looks to me if it was heat related and maybe not a faulty component , after your last ride or maybe over some time the connection to that fet leg was not a very good one and generated a lot of isolated heat which caused the board to burn which then would have cause a resistive path between the tracks then this can then go into a melt down situation. This is just my slant on it, I have seen this type of fault many times but normally on a lot higher voltage.
It looks to me if it was heat related and maybe not a faulty component , after your last ride or maybe over some time the connection to that fet leg was not a very good one and generated a lot of isolated heat which caused the board to burn which then would have cause a resistive path between the tracks then this can then go into a melt down situation. This is just my slant on it, I have seen this type of fault many times but normally on a lot higher voltage.
My last ride was quite hard, around 9KW, so I suppose that's possible.
I've got the phase B low side fets out now (all shorted) and also that large electrolytic so we can get a better look at it.
Haven't removed the phase c high side fets yet but am guessing they will all be shorted too.
I've got the phase B low side fets out now (all shorted) and also that large electrolytic so we can get a better look at it.
Haven't removed the phase c high side fets yet but am guessing they will all be shorted too.
gwhy!
100 kW
Hi Mike,
These resistive paths caused by the burning of the pcb can cause components to fail due to voltages going into places that they are not sposed to go, but the more I look at the pictures the more I think this is whats happened. I will have a look at my 18fet controller when I get back home just to see if there are any sm components that should be in this area. I think the main clue is the fact that the main area of burnt board do not contain any components.
These resistive paths caused by the burning of the pcb can cause components to fail due to voltages going into places that they are not sposed to go, but the more I look at the pictures the more I think this is whats happened. I will have a look at my 18fet controller when I get back home just to see if there are any sm components that should be in this area. I think the main clue is the fact that the main area of burnt board do not contain any components.
I don't think there are any components there. There's a picture of the top of the board posted in the first page of this thread. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=22322
Not sure if this board is scrap now or if I'm going to be able to remove the charring.
Not sure if this board is scrap now or if I'm going to be able to remove the charring.
gwhy!
100 kW
just looked at the board picture your right there is nothing else there ( I forgot I dont have a 18fet controller its a 12fet :lol: ) I would be very cautious re-using the board pulling that sort of current thought it on a regular basis, I think I would buy a replacement controller and keep that controller as a spare/backup.
gwhy!
100 kW
I think farnell or was it RS stock the fets but I dont think there are very cheap.
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
Mike1 said:I think you may be right. I could just transfer all the wires over to a new board. I'd keep the other for parts for when I blow the new one up
So does anyone in the UK have an 18 fet board and 4110 fets?
Geoff, you got one?
I have a brand new , unused, 18 FET Infineon board and case, with FET mounting hardware but with no FETs fitted.
I'm near Salisbury if you're anywhere near, or I could stick it in the post to you.
Jeremy
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
I'm afraid not, it's one I bought from Keywin just before the 116 came out.
Jeremy
Jeremy
gwhy!
100 kW
Mike1 said:
Jeremy Harris said:
Hi Jeremy,
I am a bit confused by this instant start thing
( it dont take much I know :lol: ) , My first controller is one of the old 6fet controllers and there is no sign of lag in the throttle i since bought a newer 6fet (116) and I had no end of trouble with it at first it will not always start ( it would start only if you wound on the throttle very slowly ) I have now since resolved this by adjusting the timimg slightly. Have you experienced this slow start issue first hand or was it only a problem on some of the older bigger controllers as far as you know.
zega
100 µW
Mike1 said:
What i do needs a little bit practice... here goes description for N-type testing.
First i discharge gate touching with probes (- or black to gate + or red to source), then i measure drain source both directions, when minus is on drain i got reverse diode 400mV drop, and with plus on the drain i got O.L. (max voltage or high resistance, yeah testing must be done with diode test, multimeter used must be capable of putting put more then 3Vdc on the test leads in diode mode, so far all of my DVM's were capable testing mosfets).
Now here comes the trick, with minus touching source i touch gate with plus (red) and charge the gate, that opens the mosfet, and then checking Drain Source with plus on the drain, mosfet look shorted, and DVM makes beep tone showing few mV of voltage drop on the display.
Now i hook up plus to the source, and again with black i touch the gate, discharging the gate, and check the Drain Source again, it should be "open" with O.L. again...
Works like a charm pretty dependable results there...
z
Doctorbass
100 GW
HOW TO REPAIR:
14V and 5V regulator problem
Cause: Controller stopped working just after you connect the battery to it and you are not using any precharge resistor to smooth the current to start the controller anc charging the controller internal capacitors...
it stopped working right after you heard that "normal... usuall' spark on the plug
HOW TO REPAIR:
it might be the famous MPSA93 transistor ( Q2)
I repaired a 100V controller that is using 28s a123 ( 100V) that did not have any pre charge resistor.. and that spark have make it stop working.
After few hours of investigations, i discovered that it's that Q2 transistor that was deffective.
The symptom was:
Low 5V at the output of the 7805 regulator ( U100).. I measured 4.5V instead of 5V... but the 14V rail that usually supply it, was at 6,5V and not 14V.. so i suspected that it was not the 5V the problem.. but almost the 14V that was at 6.5V.
Replacing the MPSA93 solved the problem
I know someone that will be very happy to use his newly WORKING controller this weekend! :wink: CHXS
Doc
14V and 5V regulator problem
Cause: Controller stopped working just after you connect the battery to it and you are not using any precharge resistor to smooth the current to start the controller anc charging the controller internal capacitors...
it stopped working right after you heard that "normal... usuall' spark on the plug
HOW TO REPAIR:
it might be the famous MPSA93 transistor ( Q2)
I repaired a 100V controller that is using 28s a123 ( 100V) that did not have any pre charge resistor.. and that spark have make it stop working.
After few hours of investigations, i discovered that it's that Q2 transistor that was deffective.
The symptom was:
Low 5V at the output of the 7805 regulator ( U100).. I measured 4.5V instead of 5V... but the 14V rail that usually supply it, was at 6,5V and not 14V.. so i suspected that it was not the 5V the problem.. but almost the 14V that was at 6.5V.
Replacing the MPSA93 solved the problem
I know someone that will be very happy to use his newly WORKING controller this weekend! :wink: CHXS
Doc
Tanks to an awsome doc 
methods
1 GW
Good work doc.
That is a little chunk of knowledge that we should preserve somehow.
Nothing like troubleshooting shortcuts!
-methods
That is a little chunk of knowledge that we should preserve somehow.
Nothing like troubleshooting shortcuts!
-methods
grindz145
1 MW
I'm glad I've been using a precharge resistor since day one 
recumpence
1 GW
This holds true for all controllers, from what I understand.
Glad you got it figured out, Doc.
Matt
Glad you got it figured out, Doc.
Matt
Doctorbass
100 GW
Does anyone have the schematic of the infineon 12 or 18 fets instant start controller?
I remember i already saw it onthe E-S.. it was in many seperate pages.. pdf?
I'm looking for the output fets driver shcematics cause i have mine that seem to have one phase having a problem.. but all mosfets are good and the hall sensor are good too.. :|
It make the hub to turn but make a very loud noise and vibrate alot.. and. yes!... the phase connection are ok
When i use very low throttle, the wheel can rotate very low.. but itMs like one phase have a positive or negative side missing....
it just happened while i used it...
- hall sensor OK
- Phase connection OK
- Motor ok ( i tested with another controller and it work)
- Mosfet OK ( every 3 phases test above 10 kohm from the positive and negative rail)
fet driver ????
I'll put that o a scopemeter tomorrow and will see what happen on these 3 phase while the motor rotate
Doc
I remember i already saw it onthe E-S.. it was in many seperate pages.. pdf?
I'm looking for the output fets driver shcematics cause i have mine that seem to have one phase having a problem.. but all mosfets are good and the hall sensor are good too.. :|
It make the hub to turn but make a very loud noise and vibrate alot.. and. yes!... the phase connection are ok
When i use very low throttle, the wheel can rotate very low.. but itMs like one phase have a positive or negative side missing....
it just happened while i used it...
- hall sensor OK
- Phase connection OK
- Motor ok ( i tested with another controller and it work)
- Mosfet OK ( every 3 phases test above 10 kohm from the positive and negative rail)
fet driver ????
I'll put that o a scopemeter tomorrow and will see what happen on these 3 phase while the motor rotate
Doc
